So, I'm with you now

[Brilliand]

What do you mean manage environments well; you mean avoid emotional environments and let people do what they want to do?
That is consistant with ISTp.

No... I mean control the environment, and change the emotions to be the way she wants them to be. Not to say that people can't do their own thing too; this is about the general atmosphere, not the individual people.

You're right that what you describe is consistent with ISTp, but it isn't consistent with VDF.

[Mattie]

This was the quickest backlash to a typing thread I'd seen in a while lol Either way, try not to fit yourself into the IEs, if you want to, you can make yourself seem like every type. Also, is there a real reason for why you're changing your types? I think that you're more attached to the idea of having duality with your boyfriend, and you're trying to figure out which dual pairing you are. I only say this because you tend to go away for a bit, then come back with a post about how you're questioning your types, and it seems like this forum is a catharsis for you rather than finding out truly your types. Your types don't really matter if that's the case, you're both just human.

[Beautiful sky]

No... I mean control the environment, and change the emotions to be the way she wants them to be. Not to say that people can't do their own thing too; this is about the general atmosphere, not the individual people.

You're right that what you describe is consistent with ISTp, but it isn't consistent with VDF.

She does neither control the environment nor changes the mood; she expects practical activity with her BF. So she got excited and brought in the drums and now you guys think that indicates Fe? So every person's little actions indicate Fe? That is not a good way to type someone.

I have observed her intertype relations with the things she wrote about with her family and with the people she's had relations with here. She is not attracted to Ti types, look back and read her posts and you will see that every time a Ti type tries to define a law/rule she's not around, but other Fe types are there, offering information.

[Suz]

Maritsa, just let it rest. . .you're wrong. Acknowledge it and don't be stubborn.

[Brilliand]

She does neither control the environment nor changes the mood;

She did both quite well in the OP.

she expects practical activity with her BF.

You rephrased something that she said, right? I saw something in her post that sounded sort of like this, but it seemed closest to ESTj - and would also fit fairly easily with ESFj or ENTj.

So she got excited and brought in the drums and now you guys think that indicates Fe?

That by itself doesn't guarantee base, but it effectively excludes PoLR. Also, she's like this most of the time, from what I've observed on this forum. That pushes up toward the base function... even now I might believe creative or demonstrative, but base seems most likely.

So every person's little actions indicate Fe? That is not a good way to type someone.

Not everyone's, not every action. Just this one and others like it in the people that do them.

I think you're pulling a straw man - rephrasing and generalizing the points in my favor to make them sound silly.

I have observed her intertype relations with the things she wrote about with her family and with the people she's had relations with here. She is not attracted to Ti types, look back and read her posts and you will see that every time a Ti type tries to define a law/rule she's not around, but other Fe types are there, offering information.

I can't comment on this; it's something that I haven't observed one way or the other, and I don't really trust your judgment on the matter.

[UDP]

OK everybody!

Are you ready for shock?!

Get ready to be blown away!..........

Well?

Are you sitting down?

I don't think you know socionics well enough to understand the irony that one could observe here.

But the worst part was that now I feel compelled to come on here and announce it, and that means Maritsa was right. *gah...*

Another eye-opener: my brother Danny? INFj. Spot on. So, wow. WOW!

I'm still reeling.

"compelled"

[Krig the Viking]

For the record, VixenDogFox, I agree with everyone else -- of all the types you might be, SLI is one of the least likely. Your strong Fe is blatantly obvious, which rules out any type (like SLI) with Vulnerable Fe.

Alpha Rationals tend to have more problems with Betas than with Deltas, because Betas tend to inadvertently strike at the Alpha Rationals' Vulnerable functions (Ni and Se for ESE and LII respectively).

Betas can sometimes even be a bigger problem for Alpha Rationals than Gammas are, because Alphas don't tend to interact with Gammas very much, especially Gammas of the opposite club. We seldom encounter our Conflictors "in the wild", because we have so very little in common with them. Betas, especially our Supervisor and Kindred types, can be a bigger problem because we actually have things in common with them, and sometimes actually try to interact and get along with them.

[Suz]

I don't think you know socionics well enough to understand the irony that one could observe here.

[Rubicon]

I think that you don't have to be duals with your boyfriend to love each other and get on just fine, Vixenfox.

[Crispy]

I don't mean to be rude but at least you are on the receiving end of the benefit

[Brilliand]

I don't mean to be rude but at least you are on the receiving end of the benefit

What?

Only options I see:

• ESE-LII -> Duals
• ESE-IEE -> Vixen is Benefactor

How would she be on the receiving end?

[Crispy]

What?

Only options I see:

• ESE-LII -> Duals
• ESE-IEE -> Vixen is Benefactor

How would she be on the receiving end?

Benefactor is supposed to be the "more favorable position"
Is benefactor not the receiving end of the benefit?
EDIT: Nvm I need a vocab lesson.
What I meant to say was: At least you are in the more favorable position.


Also I read somewhere on the forum recently that "working speed" is reflected by temperment and goes from:
Ej (fastest) - Ep - Ij - Ip (Slowest).
Out of curiosity: Do you identify more with being a "Fast Worker" or a "Slow Worker"?

[Rubicon]

Have you considered LSE, Vixenfox? Of course you could come across differently here than you do irl, but it seems to me like you have an Ej way about you - like you're good at taking control of your environment or something. :-p

[Crispy]

I've lived in Sacramento my whole life and have little friends to show for it. I'm bad at keeping in touch (and Sac is boring as fuck sometimes). Linguistics as an intellectual pursuit is the closest to communicating with people as you can get. Do you think of yourself as part of a group and look at others through what groups they belong to (Delta/Beta Aristocracy) or do you look at people's individual traits (Alpha/Gamma Democracy)?

[The Exception]

Alpha Rationals tend to have more problems with Betas than with Deltas, because Betas tend to inadvertently strike at the Alpha Rationals' Vulnerable functions (Ni and Se for ESE and LII respectively).

Betas can sometimes even be a bigger problem for Alpha Rationals than Gammas are, because Alphas don't tend to interact with Gammas very much, especially Gammas of the opposite club. We seldom encounter our Conflictors "in the wild", because we have so very little in common with them. Betas, especially our Supervisor and Kindred types, can be a bigger problem because we actually have things in common with them, and sometimes actually try to interact and get along with them.

I think you're onto something here. This has been true in my case. Of the two adjacent quadras, I tend to find deltas far more comfortable than betas. Additionally, I grew up with far more deltas than betas so I'm more used to that sort of interaction which could also explain things.

And tying this in with the plus/minus theory:

Alpha values - and - but beta values + and + so its as if beta values these two same functions as alpha but uses them very differently.

A similar argument could be made for alpha vs. delta: alpha values
+ and + while delta values - and -.

I think for alpha rationals, the conflict in signs is felt more with beta than delta because the shared valued functions with betas involve the base and the dual seeking whereas with deltas it would be the creative and the mobilizing. So the conflict seems a bigger deal with beta than delta. I would think the reverse would be true for alpha irrationals.

There's an interesting post on plus/minus in relation to quadra values here: thesocio.net • View topic - Quadra values according to Gulenko

Here's an example of how conflict in signs manifests in my everyday experience. According to the above link,

-Fe = minimization/avoidance of negative emotions. Avoidance of quarrels, scandals and emotional instability. This is acknowledged as more important than the release of positive emotions.

+Fe = maximization of positive emotions. Even small doses are enjoyed. Against the backdrop of the dramatic, turbulent emotions that always accompany this quadra, every small occurrence deserving a positive response is seen as an occasion for joy and uplifts their spirits.

I value , but what I really value is -, not so much +. What I've noticed with some betas is that they are so focused on trying to create on what they think is a positive emotional atmosphere that sometimes they unintentionally make things over-dramatic or do things that could potentially offend someone. Kind of like when a group of them are hanging out and trading jokes and laughing but some of the jokes are kind of offensive but they say them anyway because they don't want to stop the fun they're having just because it could hurt somebody. Alphas, I think would be much more attuned to not saying certain things that could cause controversy and disrupt the group's harmony.

[Crispy]

Sacramento is beautiful in some places and absolutely rotten in other places.

I think I like the idea of being an open Alpha, but I have always listed Delta as the other group I identify with most closely and it is true that I do see myself as part of a group and quickly size up others to see what group they are in. For instance, if I see people wearing shoes outside my group, I mentally place them into a separate group from me. And my boyfriend and I spend a lot of time amusing ourselves by criticizing people/things we see on TV and putting ourselves in our own group. It's kind of snobby, but not exactly intentional...?

But back to linguistics: I am not interested in it for the person-to-person contact. I am interested in the structure and makeup of language, and most fascinated with connecting indo-european languages to their roots. I can read texts on linguistics for hours and my favorite parts are the breakdown charts of which sounds in which languages came from which parts of PIE (proto-indo-european). I do also have an interest in anthropology though. When I was little I thought I wanted to be an archaeologist or paleontologist and I knew I could do it too. People would tell me, "You don't want to be one of those! It's not exciting like you might think. All they do is dig up little pieces of bones and artifacts and sit there for hours cleaning them." But that sounded perfect to me. So I don't know if my interests really relate to my type? Maybe anyone would like these things.

Have you considered that you may be ENFp as well? How firm are you on being a caregiver?

Alpha values - and - but beta values + and + so its as if beta values these two same functions as alpha but uses them very differently.

I thought - manifested in Alpha NT as being purposefully mean to people. I saw it in the functional revise page of wikisocion, but has hence been deleted. Do you mean to say - is the elimination of negative emotions while + is the acquiring more positive emotions?

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[thePirate]

know you won't believe me, but you really don't know me in real life so you cannot possibly type me correctly.

Look, the first type I ever thought I was was ISTP (Myers Briggs which doesn't apply), then I thought I was ENFp. Then ISFp. But that never fit me either because I am much harsher internally than that, and my temper is really ridiculous though I hate to let go emotionally.

I know I am Si, that's for sure. But don't think I can't be demonstrative nor enthusiastic, especially in writing, and be SLI. The descriptions say SLI's can be "chatterboxes". I have many interests and I go back and forth between them at will, obsessing over various ones for a few weeks at a time. I have held 17 different jobs. I still can't decide what I want to do...

It's not so weird that I would be a P temperament as most of my adult life I have identified with that. It is only in the last year to year and a half that I decided I was J.

I go around feeling logical and detached from people but incredibly attached to the physical world. I sometimes like animals far more than people. I rate my physical comfort as #1. There are a lot of reasons I believe I am SLI. I am at the point now where I care VERY LITTLE about whether my boyfriend and I are duals; we are so happy now and have dealt issues I have *ahem* mentioned and things are great. So personality types could be nonexistent.
In high school, I was extremely sullen and had no friends. I walked around hating the world. I think this is important to remember. I always avoided this fact but it is very true.

It's just so hard for people online who don't know people in real life to give a good typing.

Another problem with me: I have always felt like somewhat of a chameleon, someone who is changeable depending on the circumstances. People believed I was ESE so I felt like one to a certain extent. But I FINALLY, and I mean FINALLY feel that I have found my real type.

Also: remember when I felt Bullets & Doves was attacking someone? And I exploded on him? That is very typical of me, and typical of SLI's, to defend their friends if being attacked in a very dramatic and quick manner.

Also, there have been ENFp's on this site who have thought I was SLI and felt I was their dual. I ignored that possibility. But I really think it's true.

Not all SLI's are succinct all the time. Often they can overdo the details, which I do. A lot.

Also, I am not conflict avoidant. That's something I've always felt uncomfortable with in Alpha SF descriptions. I'm actually quite contentious, as my SLE dad loves to remind me. I enjoy argument in many situations and my boyfriend is constantly telling me I take apart arguments of others better than anyone he knows.

And finally, VI. I never felt I really LOOKED ESE. I kept trying to. I'd look in the mirror, then at all the pictures of ESE's, and I'd try to see the similarities. I would try to MAKE it true. But I DO look like MANY SLI's. I've been told I look like the girl from Bladerunner, like Dita Von Teese, like Meryl Streep, etc. And I personally see a resemblance.

I know I cannot convince most of you. I don't need to though. I will feel I am this way until I don't. Period. ;-P





Of course I don't. I did not change both our types because I think we are duals. It truly happened organically.

WOW, YOUR REASONING IS INCREDIBLY PATHETIC

You do NOT understand the theory, you dumbfuck. it doesnt fucking matter if anybody knows you here, they are more likely to get your type right as they arent using this pop mbti bullshti criteria u use to type.

"That is very typical of me, and typical of SLI's, to defend their friends if being attacked in a very dramatic and quick manner."

Thats called 'being a good friend' its not related to type. Being a chameleon is the antithesis of what an SLI is. Im not even going to dignify the rest of your bullshit with a response, I know this shit better than you and there is no way in fuck you are SLI. Doesnt matter if I know you or not IRL, an SLI would not talk or act like this online, even as an act - as they have no motivation to.

[Krig the Viking]

Another problem with me: I have always felt like somewhat of a chameleon, someone who is changeable depending on the circumstances. People believed I was ESE so I felt like one to a certain extent. But I FINALLY, and I mean FINALLY feel that I have found my real type.

I know an ESE who has told me the same thing: she feels like a "social chameleon" because she becomes whatever role is needed in her social setting. She also has similar issues with identity -- confusing the roles she plays with her true, inner self.

But back to linguistics: I am not interested in it for the person-to-person contact. I am interested in the structure and makeup of language, and most fascinated with connecting indo-european languages to their roots. I can read texts on linguistics for hours and my favorite parts are the breakdown charts of which sounds in which languages came from which parts of PIE (proto-indo-european). I do also have an interest in anthropology though. When I was little I thought I wanted to be an archaeologist or paleontologist and I knew I could do it too. People would tell me, "You don't want to be one of those! It's not exciting like you might think. All they do is dig up little pieces of bones and artifacts and sit there for hours cleaning them." But that sounded perfect to me. So I don't know if my interests really relate to my type? Maybe anyone would like these things.

Both of those fields are strongly Alpha NT fields, linguistics and etymology in particular. I would say that your interest in those things derives from your "inner LII", i. e., your Super-Id.

@warrior-librarian: excellent analysis; I have also noticed those things. Betas are fun in small doses, but too exhausting and occasionally infuriating to spend much time with. Case in point:

@thePirate: Dude, chill out, it's not the end of the world.

[Krig the Viking]

You stoop to pathetic and whiny personal attacks and have absolutely zero interest in furthering understanding.

@thePirate: She has a point there, dude. Personal attacks impede real understanding, on either side. Seek clarity before agreement.

[Aiss]

That is not at all why I "changed" types. Assuming I changed two types because someone told me to even though I pre-empted this (practically) by saying I DID NOT change them because she said so, is giving away your short-sidedness Jarno.

I was just reading about one of the things I find interesting (personality type) and I had absolutely no inkling that Maritsa could be right about our types. I actually just allowed myself to be open to the idea and it happened to fit better than anything else has.

And I did not purposely type my boyfriend and me as dual types.

INTj was a typing done by someone else for him, over the internet. But it never fully fit. Now that I read the ENFp profiles and think of him, it is incredibly fitting. But he is a pretty quiet one. He has a huge circle of friends, and he is always the center of attention, and he is more effervescently creative than anyone I have ever known. He has zero interest in technical things, he is no good (can't stand) planning, and hates to clean. That is not all why I think he is ENFp, but those are some obvious correlative traits.

I know you won't believe me, but you really don't know me in real life so you cannot possibly type me correctly.

Look, the first type I ever thought I was was ISTP (Myers Briggs which doesn't apply), then I thought I was ENFp. Then ISFp. But that never fit me either because I am much harsher internally than that, and my temper is really ridiculous though I hate to let go emotionally.

I know I am Si, that's for sure. But don't think I can't be demonstrative nor enthusiastic, especially in writing, and be SLI. The descriptions say SLI's can be "chatterboxes". I have many interests and I go back and forth between them at will, obsessing over various ones for a few weeks at a time. I have held 17 different jobs. I still can't decide what I want to do...

It's not so weird that I would be a P temperament as most of my adult life I have identified with that. It is only in the last year to year and a half that I decided I was J.

I go around feeling logical and detached from people but incredibly attached to the physical world. I sometimes like animals far more than people. I rate my physical comfort as #1. There are a lot of reasons I believe I am SLI. I am at the point now where I care VERY LITTLE about whether my boyfriend and I are duals; we are so happy now and have dealt issues I have *ahem* mentioned and things are great. So personality types could be nonexistent.
In high school, I was extremely sullen and had no friends. I walked around hating the world. I think this is important to remember. I always avoided this fact but it is very true.

It's just so hard for people online who don't know people in real life to give a good typing.

Another problem with me: I have always felt like somewhat of a chameleon, someone who is changeable depending on the circumstances. People believed I was ESE so I felt like one to a certain extent. But I FINALLY, and I mean FINALLY feel that I have found my real type.

Also: remember when I felt Bullets & Doves was attacking someone? And I exploded on him? That is very typical of me, and typical of SLI's, to defend their friends if being attacked in a very dramatic and quick manner.

Also, there have been ENFp's on this site who have thought I was SLI and felt I was their dual. I ignored that possibility. But I really think it's true.

Not all SLI's are succinct all the time. Often they can overdo the details, which I do. A lot.

Also, I am not conflict avoidant. That's something I've always felt uncomfortable with in Alpha SF descriptions. I'm actually quite contentious, as my SLE dad loves to remind me. I enjoy argument in many situations and my boyfriend is constantly telling me I take apart arguments of others better than anyone he knows.

And finally, VI. I never felt I really LOOKED ESE. I kept trying to. I'd look in the mirror, then at all the pictures of ESE's, and I'd try to see the similarities. I would try to MAKE it true. But I DO look like MANY SLI's. I've been told I look like the girl from Bladerunner, like Dita Von Teese, like Meryl Streep, etc. And I personally see a resemblance.

I know I cannot convince most of you. I don't need to though. I will feel I am this way until I don't. Period. ;-P

Of course I don't. I did not change both our types because I think we are duals. It truly happened organically.

Interesting.

I'm pretty slow. Like I have to give myself a really long time for prep in the kitchen before dinner's supposed to be ready or else it doesn't happen on time, and I need 1-2 hours to shower + get ready. I hate to be pressured to rush too...

Hmm, it's something to think about.

I'm just not... I dunno, I have an LSE best friend and she is much more hard lined and powerful socially than me. We used to go out and she would draw the whole room and I would just be a bystander. But LSE is a possibility. I have felt similar to my LSE friend in some important ways in the past.

A few other thoughts:
My favorite intellectual pursuits are linguistics and languages. I have an almost photographic memory when it comes to spelling and understand grammar and sentence structure precisely. These things I never had to learn through study. I am also extremely visual. Does that mean anything? Oh and I've been living in Sacramento two and a half years and have zero friends of my own here. Plus ENFj's are probably my conflictors...

Someone said I should post VI photos on another site; maybe I'll do that.

And, as a woman, I often add a lot of embellishment to my writing (such as smileys) in order to make others comfortable and not think I'm mad. I want to make people *comfortable* and see me as feminine, it's not that Fe is all that natural for me. I've realized I really care most about how people feel physically in terms of how they're doing.

Lastly, my emotionality is like this: even, level, even, even, level, level, level, even, LOSING IT, even, level, even, even... a pattern like that. I don't know how to manipulate my emotions. Growing up, fighting with my mom as much as I did, I never knew how to just charm her or manipulate her feelings to get her to see things my way. I felt compelled to fight things to the bloody finish. I was/am extremely short-sighted that way. Not knowing which battles to fight at times, feeling like I must punish my attacker.

Vixen, I realize you're convinced and probably won't care, but everything in these posts, and others I haven't quoted, screams Fe over Te to me. Everything, from how often you take things personally, to how you try to explain your point, to what you describe you do. It's true we don't know you, but we also - I hope - know better than to type by traits such as those you mention. And from IM perspective, Fe-PoLR doesn't make the least bit of sense for you. It's not simply about misanthropy or lack thereof. I rather think you're hitting upon a stereotype about ESEs here.

What you say about being a slow worker sounds like my ESE mother, down to hating to be rushed - she's also not at all fond of strangers' children, though she'll pretend to be nice, so not exactly an uber-people's-person this type is often painted as. I'm not saying you are necessarily one, but I think you don't really get the question. The difference in approach between Ej and Ip was pointed out earlier by Vero where you sounded more on Ej side of things. Ip is more about doing things lazily, not necessarily taking a lot of time - they're the people who hurry slowly. It's not something explicable online really, you need to observe people of different temperaments for it. I've never ever heard Ip saying something like "I have to give myself a really long time for [getting something done]". Look at ESE profiles for that, Ni section.

Your famous thread about your boyfriend and duality also convince me you are Fe ego rather than Te ego. A lot of what you say about yourself there simply doesn't fit xLI. Especially bringing the matter up in other situations. It's so Fe - Alpha SF, even - I can't even find the words for it.

[Beautiful sky]

Vixen, I realize you're convinced and probably won't care, but everything in these posts, and others I haven't quoted, screams Fe over Te to me. Everything, from how often you take things personally, to how you try to explain your point, to what you describe you do. It's true we don't know you, but we also - I hope - know better than to type by traits such as those you mention. And from IM perspective, Fe-PoLR doesn't make the least bit of sense for you. It's not simply about misanthropy or lack thereof. I rather think you're hitting upon a stereotype about ESEs here.

What you say about being a slow worker sounds like my ESE mother, down to hating to be rushed - she's also not at all fond of strangers' children, though she'll pretend to be nice, so not exactly an uber-people's-person this type is often painted as. I'm not saying you are necessarily one, but I think you don't really get the question. The difference in approach between Ej and Ip was pointed out earlier by Vero where you sounded more on Ej side of things. Ip is more about doing things lazily, not necessarily taking a lot of time - they're the people who hurry slowly. It's not something explicable online really, you need to observe people of different temperaments for it. I've never ever heard Ip saying something like "I have to give myself a really long time for [getting something done]". Look at ESE profiles for that, Ni section.

Your famous thread about your boyfriend and duality also convince me you are Fe ego rather than Te ego. A lot of what you say about yourself there simply doesn't fit xLI. Especially bringing the matter up in other situations. It's so Fe - Alpha SF, even - I can't even find the words for it.

Stop, you don't have a clue, why don't you listen to what she says about herself and compare it to the functions.

She did both quite well in the OP.

That's not controlling the environment that's making an announcement.

For the record, VixenDogFox, I agree with everyone else -- of all the types you might be, SLI is one of the least likely. Your strong Fe is blatantly obvious, which rules out any type (like SLI) with Vulnerable Fe.

Alpha Rationals tend to have more problems with Betas than with Deltas, because Betas tend to inadvertently strike at the Alpha Rationals' Vulnerable functions (Ni and Se for ESE and LII respectively).

Betas can sometimes even be a bigger problem for Alpha Rationals than Gammas are, because Alphas don't tend to interact with Gammas very much, especially Gammas of the opposite club. We seldom encounter our Conflictors "in the wild", because we have so very little in common with them. Betas, especially our Supervisor and Kindred types, can be a bigger problem because we actually have things in common with them, and sometimes actually try to interact and get along with them.

Define Fe, I bet you can't even

[Beautiful sky]

That is not at all why I "changed" types. Assuming I changed two types because someone told me to even though I pre-empted this (practically) by saying I DID NOT change them because she said so, is giving away your short-sidedness Jarno.

I was just reading about one of the things I find interesting (personality type) and I had absolutely no inkling that Maritsa could be right about our types. I actually just allowed myself to be open to the idea and it happened to fit better than anything else has.

And I did not purposely type my boyfriend and me as dual types.

INTj was a typing done by someone else for him, over the internet. But it never fully fit. Now that I read the ENFp profiles and think of him, it is incredibly fitting. But he is a pretty quiet one. He has a huge circle of friends, and he is always the center of attention, and he is more effervescently creative than anyone I have ever known. He has zero interest in technical things, he is no good (can't stand) planning, and hates to clean. That is not all why I think he is ENFp, but those are some obvious correlative traits.

I know you won't believe me, but you really don't know me in real life so you cannot possibly type me correctly.

Look, the first type I ever thought I was was ISTP (Myers Briggs which doesn't apply), then I thought I was ENFp. Then ISFp. But that never fit me either because I am much harsher internally than that, and my temper is really ridiculous though I hate to let go emotionally.

I know I am Si, that's for sure. But don't think I can't be demonstrative nor enthusiastic, especially in writing, and be SLI. The descriptions say SLI's can be "chatterboxes". I have many interests and I go back and forth between them at will, obsessing over various ones for a few weeks at a time. I have held 17 different jobs. I still can't decide what I want to do...

It's not so weird that I would be a P temperament as most of my adult life I have identified with that. It is only in the last year to year and a half that I decided I was J.

I go around feeling logical and detached from people but incredibly attached to the physical world. I sometimes like animals far more than people. I rate my physical comfort as #1. There are a lot of reasons I believe I am SLI. I am at the point now where I care VERY LITTLE about whether my boyfriend and I are duals; we are so happy now and have dealt issues I have *ahem* mentioned and things are great. So personality types could be nonexistent.
In high school, I was extremely sullen and had no friends. I walked around hating the world. I think this is important to remember. I always avoided this fact but it is very true.

It's just so hard for people online who don't know people in real life to give a good typing.

Another problem with me: I have always felt like somewhat of a chameleon, someone who is changeable depending on the circumstances. People believed I was ESE so I felt like one to a certain extent. But I FINALLY, and I mean FINALLY feel that I have found my real type.

Also: remember when I felt Bullets & Doves was attacking someone? And I exploded on him? That is very typical of me, and typical of SLI's, to defend their friends if being attacked in a very dramatic and quick manner.


Also, there have been ENFp's on this site who have thought I was SLI and felt I was their dual. I ignored that possibility. But I really think it's true.

Not all SLI's are succinct all the time. Often they can overdo the details, which I do. A lot.

Also, I am not conflict avoidant. That's something I've always felt uncomfortable with in Alpha SF descriptions. I'm actually quite contentious, as my SLE dad loves to remind me. I enjoy argument in many situations and my boyfriend is constantly telling me I take apart arguments of others better than anyone he knows.

And finally, VI. I never felt I really LOOKED ESE. I kept trying to. I'd look in the mirror, then at all the pictures of ESE's, and I'd try to see the similarities. I would try to MAKE it true. But I DO look like MANY SLI's. I've been told I look like the girl from Bladerunner, like Dita Von Teese, like Meryl Streep, etc. And I personally see a resemblance.

I know I cannot convince most of you. I don't need to though. I will feel I am this way until I don't. Period. ;-P





Of course I don't. I did not change both our types because I think we are duals. It truly happened organically.

The above alone would tell you're SLI; devalued Fe.

[Beautiful sky]

Interesting.

I'm pretty slow. Like I have to give myself a really long time for prep in the kitchen before dinner's supposed to be ready or else it doesn't happen on time, and I need 1-2 hours to shower + get ready. I hate to be pressured to rush too...



Hmm, it's something to think about.

I'm just not... I dunno, I have an LSE best friend and she is much more hard lined and powerful socially than me. We used to go out and she would draw the whole room and I would just be a bystander. But LSE is a possibility. I have felt similar to my LSE friend in some important ways in the past.


A few other thoughts:
My favorite intellectual pursuits are linguistics and languages. I have an almost photographic memory when it comes to spelling and understand grammar and sentence structure precisely. These things I never had to learn through study. I am also extremely visual. Does that mean anything? Oh and I've been living in Sacramento two and a half years and have zero friends of my own here. Plus ENFj's are probably my conflictors...

Someone said I should post VI photos on another site; maybe I'll do that.

They are much more rigid, serious as opposed to flexible, as SLI tend to be.

[The Exception]

I thought - manifested in Alpha NT as being purposefully mean to people.

If that's the case, I'm not alpha NT.

Do you mean to say - is the elimination of negative emotions while + is the acquiring more positive emotions?

Yes.

[Beautiful sky]

If that's the case, I'm not alpha NT.



Yes.

You are not an alpha NT and Crispy is partially correct.

[The Exception]

Vixen/Malia is the hugest ESFj ever.

That's funny. I looked at some pictures of her and she looks normal sized to me.

[Cyrano]

Everybody's input is appreciated.

Saying it takes me a long time to do things is something my SLI brother and mother would both say if pressed. I didn't know how to word it, but I like to be leisure. At work I am told I am a 'fast worker' because I am very precise and skilled and get things done. But I don't want anyone supervising that work, and I don't want to be watched and moved along. I want to take whatever time is MY time. I hope that clarifies.

My LSE friend came up to me before we were friends. She said, "You seem cool." I looked at her and grumbled, "How do you know I'm cool?" and whenever I "get back to me" I basically have the same persona. I care less about people's opinions of me and more about what they think of what *I* think - what I MAKE, what I DO. I have been told I walked around high school giving people dirty looks. I didn't even realize it. I just knew I hated all those idiots.

I realize 99% of people here will not trust this change in my type. And yet THIS TYPE is a type I first tested as at 15. This type is like going home for me. I have tried to fit so many other molds. It doesn't work. I am sticking with this one.

Sounds SLI to me. Not an easy type to be since you can become isolated. But you are fairly bullet-proof otherwise. I wouldn't change.

[Jarno]

Words of wisdom:

Some people immediately get the grasp of socionics and some people will just never get it.

[Creepy-male]

That's funny. I looked at some pictures of her and she looks normal sized to me.

[Beautiful sky]

Sounds SLI to me. Not an easy type to be since you can become isolated. But you are fairly bullet-proof otherwise. I wouldn't change.

Yeah baby!!!!!!!!!

[Creepy-male]

Words of wisdom:

Some people immediately get the grasp of socionics and some people will just never get it.

No, that's stupid. Some people learn through experience, and learn very, erm, publically. I'm one of those people, and I think I have at least a serviceable grasp of Socionics despite my slow start.

[Beautiful sky]

No, that's stupid. Some people learn through experience, and learn very, erm, publically. I'm one of those people, and I think I have at least a serviceable grasp of Socionics despite my slow start.

You're right; you're right; you're right, repeating....

[Trevor]

Aww VDF, you're so sweet when deluded.

[Krig the Viking]

That's funny. I looked at some pictures of her and she looks normal sized to me.

[thePirate]

Krig: I know you are fond of her because she is your dual, but seriously? this stupidity can not be allowed to run free. I know you alphas have your gentle tactics, but I dont intend to baby an airhead on the internet.

Sorry.

Based on the spastic response by YOU, I can only conclude that you are an insecure semi-intelligent person with an over-inflated ego. Give me a break. I'm bored already.

Oh and I don't use MBTI criteria. You typing me based on my writing is far more idiotic than me typing myself based on concrete behaviors, which, I might add are backed up by the literature.

what the heck are you talking about?

Im not looking to fight you, I genuinely just find your stupidity frustrating

you say what I'm doing is idiotic because you have no idea how far Socionics can be applied; actually typing by writing is an advanced skillset that only a few people can do accurately. you would know this if you knew shit about anything.

none of what you say is backed up by literature, I have read the 'literature' and see pop mbti bullshit critera you use to type.

for instance you say that SLI can be chatterboxes, yet apply it to a scope where it doesnt apply; SLI 'chatterboxes' dont use tons of Fe in their posts like you do, and surely you are not suggesting that they are the only chatterboxes in the socion? you do know you use Fe right? if you can admit that, and see that its actually pretty excessive, you will see you cant be SLI

[thePirate]

I don't want that. I just like to be disturbing once in a while :-)

And her move of changing TWO types at once because MARITSA said so, is something only the dumbest person on the planet would do.

I thought people were smarter than this

[buckland]

I dated an ENFj. I did all kinds of Si things for him. He valued them not at all but would tell me that I should just talk to him about *insert whatever he wanted me to talk to him about* which usually involved him probing into what I was "thinking about". He told me he'd rather me do what he wanted for him than do any of the physical favors (such as clean up his room for him, do his laundry, redesign the layout of his room, cook delicious food for him, etc.). He thought I was a food snob, too. I definitely use Si on a constant basis, and it was *almost* never as clear as when I was with my conflictor (we also fought viciously night and day). It is how I define myself internally without having to reflect much on it.

I don't think your conflict with EIE is necessarily due to you 2 being "conflicting". The difference here is just that you were being a caregiver and he was not really appreciative of that.

And, as a woman, I often add a lot of embellishment to my writing (such as smileys) in order to make others comfortable and not think I'm mad. I want to make people *comfortable* and see me as feminine, it's not that Fe is all that natural for me. I've realized I really care most about how people feel physically in terms of how they're doing.

Having Fe does in most circumstances equate to a certain sociability, however the situation is very important. You're discomfort when putting these embellishments (I'm assuming they extend to the real world) probably fades away when around people that you're close to and the real VDF comes through. However, the fact that you even attempt to do this says something about your social requirements. Comparing ESE vs SLI for example, I know that I have yet to meet an ESE who can go for a day or 2 without talking to someone without getting affected, which I don't think would affect an SLI quite as much.

Another thing I noticed, is that ESE have a(I don't mean this in an offensive manner, it's the only way I could describe it though) co-dependence to them which attaches them to a handful of people and basically restricts them to a relatively small circle(from experience). On the other hand, SLI seem to be a bit more open to experience, plus are less affected by negative response, and I think all things considered may "branch out" more. From a male perspective, I find it a lot more likely for SLI to be a "player" than ESE based on this, all else being equal.

It's one of the problems I have with quadra descriptions which focus on ideal group sizes, as it places a misconception that e.g. alphas are not happy unless surrounded by tonnes of people, though this is not the place for that.

Lastly, my emotionality is like this: even, level, even, even, level, level, level, even, LOSING IT, even, level, even, even... a pattern like that. I don't know how to manipulate my emotions. Growing up, fighting with my mom as much as I did, I never knew how to just charm her or manipulate her feelings to get her to see things my way. I felt compelled to fight things to the bloody finish. I was/am extremely short-sighted that way. Not knowing which battles to fight at times, feeling like I must punish my attacker.

The inability to manipulate emotions is not something that points away from ESE. I think if anything, the fact that they bear so much control over you proves that you're Fe base.

And charm is not synonymous with Fe (Maritsa), though if asked to pull a type out that I associate with charm, it would probably be EIE.

[Crispy]

If that's the case, I'm not alpha NT.

The functional revise page on wikisocion has never been retrieved since the crash, so I don't know where to find the info, but there must be some in depth +/- page somewhere on the interbutts. But it looked something like this:

Alpha NT / Delta ST : Blah blah blah, they use - which appears as a need to be mean to people. Blah blah blah.

I wish I could find the page but I do relate very much to this need. I could be described as an IRL troll sometimes

If the preceding is true: VDF, do you relate with needing to be outwardly mean to people?