What does Ti do?

[tcaudilllg]

Simply put, the function of introverted thinking comes up with new things. Not ideas -- things.

Beta Ti observes how objects move together. If applying force to one object moves another, then they can be though of as the same object. (a "compound") Alpha Ti tries to identify this object as something that is related to other objects, thus giving it an identity. Identities are constructed based on what properties an object has and which it doesn't: property 'X' is true for all objects of category 'C', not true for all objects of category 'D'. Therefore if an object has information aspect 'X' (reckoned with the EM processors) then it must be a 'C', not a 'D'. Note that all properties are information aspects: there is no appreciable difference between the two concepts, because every property can be classified (via Ti) as an information element.

Beta Ti observes that objects exist and are distinct; alpha Ti gives them identity. Notice also, if you change the Beta Ti situation by combining objects together or breaking them apart, you also change the alpha Ti situation by creating a new identity for the object. The ascription of beta Ti changes to alpha Ti changes is what we call science. I would argue, that what we call theory is the ascription of changes observed through alpha Ti alone to direct changes at the beta Ti level.

And on that notion, allow me to opine that producing subtype LIIs have more respect for theory than do accepting subtype LIIs, because they more readily translate identities into real-world phenomena. Accepting subtype LIIs prefer science, producing subtype LIIs prefer theory.

[Brilliand]

This seems to clash with the idea of Objects/Fields... under which your Beta/Alpha descriptions would be / descriptions.

[tcaudilllg]

This seems to clash with the idea of Objects/Fields... under which your Beta/Alpha descriptions would be / descriptions.

It does not. Look closer.

[krieger]

Fe/Ti establishes what is a rational attitude on the basis of less rational reactive fundamental judgments.

Te/Fi does the opposite: it establishes right and wrong on the basis of fundamental reactive judgments about practical effects.

The Je function here is something that is very unproblematic and quickly, instinctively giving rise to a normative judgment. The Ji function instead needs to compose fundamentals to reach an answer.

[Crispy]

What's the distinction between science and theory when looking for subtype?

[Creepy-male]

To be completely basic I think generally introverted means the following.... intro is a root for inward, and verted is a form of version. Introverted means inward version. So I think Ti is essentially the inward version of logic, whereas by contraste Te is essentially the outward version of logic.

Since Ti is inward, its essentially looking for the inward innate logic structure of things, the essence, the root principles, the underlying theory.

Te by contrast is essentially looking outward at the logical characteristics of things, the facts, the data, the statistics.

Understanding how these two ideas are seperate and why the reason they are seperate is because one is "inward" and the other is "outward" can be turned over and over to make accurate conclusions about the fine details of Ti and Te.

You can analogously use this introversion and extroversion concept with ethical types to learn the difference between Fi and Fe.

Fe is the mood, the vibes, the feeling in the room.

Fi is a value, something that is internalized and not just on the surface.

Further I honestly feel as if these two functions relate in a non-socionics way. They have a naturally interconnectedness. Ti is the core, Te is the surface, there is a connection between them and its gradual. What socionicists call Ti and Te is just an arbitrary division made absolute because its easier to think in that way. In reality their is an introversion/extroversion gradient. Further this gradient flows from surface to core like magma underneath the earth, are conciousness flows also, and what we perceive is actually a more dynamic process of inward and outward, flexing and moving like a contracting muscle or breathing lungs. Usually we find however that a specific preference is established towards Ti or Te, but that is a gross simplification, Te may be the dominant function for a Ti type in particular situations, similar to the way an atom can inhabit excited states for a certain amount of time, the ground state, the most stable however is likely to be analogous to what most would call a socionics type. This is because evolutionaryily its neccesary for survival to be able to utilize different psychological function in certain situations, in an emergency you can't be using Ti and analyzing the fine details of everything, you generally become more Se, you achieve something analogous to an excited state for an atom. After the emergency is dealt with, you fall back to your ground state, releasing an energy debt to your Ti analysing the situation. This is even more complex as the psyche is much like an organ and doesn't consist of one component but a myraid of components cooperating naturally together in a way that is analogous to a minature ecosystem. The psyche is like an organ with tissues and cells and organles and other components. All of this relates back to brain chemistry and evolution and possibly even to some more mystical/philosophical concept of a conciousness/spirit.

Thats the complicated version, but my ideas aren't exactly mainstream socionics.

[tcaudilllg]

To be completely basic I think generally introverted means the following.... intro is a root for inward, and verted is a form of version. Introverted means inward version. So I think Ti is essentially the inward version of logic, whereas by contraste Te is essentially the outward version of logic.

Since Ti is inward, its essentially looking for the inward innate logic structure of things, the essence, the root principles, the underlying theory.

Te by contrast is essentially looking outward at the logical characteristics of things, the facts, the data, the statistics.

Understanding how these two ideas are seperate and why the reason they are seperate is because one is "inward" and the other is "outward" can be turned over and over to make accurate conclusions about the fine details of Ti and Te.

You can analogously use this introversion and extroversion concept with ethical types to learn the difference between Fi and Fe.

Fe is the mood, the vibes, the feeling in the room.

Fi is a value, something that is internalized and not just on the surface.

Further I honestly feel as if these two functions relate in a non-socionics way. They have a naturally interconnectedness. Ti is the core, Te is the surface, there is a connection between them and its gradual. What socionicists call Ti and Te is just an arbitrary division made absolute because its easier to think in that way. In reality their is an introversion/extroversion gradient. Further this gradient flows from surface to core like magma underneath the earth, are conciousness flows also, and what we perceive is actually a more dynamic process of inward and outward, flexing and moving like a contracting muscle or breathing lungs. Usually we find however that a specific preference is established towards Ti or Te, but that is a gross simplification, Te may be the dominant function for a Ti type in particular situations, similar to the way an atom can inhabit excited states for a certain amount of time, the ground state, the most stable however is likely to be analogous to what most would call a socionics type.

No, see model B. Boukalov (and Hitta) have already been there.

Of course a Ti dominant will rely on Te from time to time. Why wouldn't he? It's strong enough.

[Creepy-male]

No, see model B. Boukalov (and Hitta) have already been there.

Of course a Ti dominant will rely on Te from time to time. Why wouldn't he? It's strong enough.

sure but I think theres more to my point than that, but I won't hold it against you if your not particularly interested in what I am talking about right now.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[tcaudilllg]

Identities, distances... these are absolutely external statics of fields, things which relate objects to each other. Object identities and separation only matter when speaking about groups of objects, not individuals.

[Creepy-male]

...

Basically, I understand your point and its a fair one. Sure I can break down the word, but that doesn't mean its true. I feel that the intro/extro thing is true because its something I derived out after having a knowledge of the functions establish, contrary to deriving it out before having knowledge of the functions. It was discovered through induction and not derivation. Since I discovered it through induction, I use it as a simple element to remember, so that I can derive out the meaning of the functions from a simpler principle.

The same way a physicist will discover an equation characterizes the behavior of something they observe in a labratory, then they utilize that equation to have a simpler mechanism to explain a much greater thing. like how maxwells equations, only 4 equations, can characterize all electromagnetic phenomenom.

Anyways I feel like its hard to develop the correct sense of what I mean by inner and outer. Its not just a simple concept. Consider, Fi considers this room in relation to other rooms, especially familiar ones, that could be considered more "outwards" in a way, couldn't it?. That is not outwards because out and in don't apply in a real-world spatial sense, but in an abstract sense to the idea of feeling. The space you are moving out and in from isn't a real world space, its an abstract space of feeling. Introverted Feeling, is the internal version of feeling and not the feeling you have inside of places. Its internal feeling because it seeks to look for the core or inner part of ones feelings. Which are values, which are underlying reasons for why people have emotional reactions on the surfact to things. An Fi considers the room in relation to others because they are searching for that core value that remains independant from their immediate circumstances. An Fe by contrast is focused on the immediate circumstances.

[Joy]

The Ji function instead needs to compose fundamentals to reach an answer.

Yeah. Basically it's less about events and actions and more about systems and structures.