DCNH subtypes: different psychoforms of IEI-INFps

[indigoroom]

Frequently IEI (Esenin) possesses the harmonizing form of personality, but are encountered versions of the type with the predominance of the creative psycho-form: musicians, artists, poets so forth they contrasted dual with the dominant behavior. Is more preferable partner, who has the normalizing psycho-form - calmer and more balanced person, otherwise their "game- fight" can lead to the mutual defeat or even be finished by drama.

http://babelfish.altavista.com/babel...mestimost.html

now what is this? different psycho-forms?

and somewhere i've read something about the eyes
more intuitive INFp - big eyes
emotional INFp - "normal" (?) eyes

i'm not very sure what exactly was.

does someone have articles about these themes?

btw I think I posses the creative psycho form.. but back in the years i think for some time i was "harmonizing".. hmm

[Catholic Schoolboy]

<3

Wow......

[Clumsy]

Can anyone provide more specific descriptions or examples of these? http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?t...NFp_-_Romantic

I still can't figure out my subtype. There aren't any light bulb moments happening when I read them.

[jughead]

Well they are pretty much ripped off of M&O and Gunlenko and hacked into pieces for DCNH it appears to me. Its just two groups doing two subtype descriptions then hacked to fit into DCNH.

[Creepy-]

Well they are pretty much ripped off of M&O and Gunlenko and hacked into pieces for DCNH it appears to me. Its just two groups doing two subtype descriptions then hacked to fit into DCNH.

Yeah, but that's not the question. The question is, do they work?

[glam]

Can anyone provide more specific descriptions or examples of these? http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?t...NFp_-_Romantic

I still can't figure out my subtype. There aren't any light bulb moments happening when I read them.

ftr, those descriptions are IEI-Ni and IEI-Fe subtype descriptions assigned to the DCNH subtypes:

IEI Dominant subtype description is Gulenko's IEI-Fe subtype description
IEI Creative subtype description is Gulenko's IEI-Ni subtype description
IEI Normalizing subtype description is Meged & Ovcharov's IEI-Fe subtype description
IEI Harmonizing subtype description is Meged & Ovcharov's IEI-Ni subtype description

i think it was either Krig the Viking or JohnDo who assigned the various subtype descriptions to each DCNH subtype in that wiki article (? correct me if i'm wrong anyone)

[Krig the Viking]

i think it was either Krig the Viking or JohnDo who assigned the various subtype descriptions to each DCNH subtype in that wiki article (? correct me if i'm wrong anyone)

I was the one who noticed that there seemed to be an interesting correlation there, but JohnDo was the one who took it really literally and posted it on Wikisocion. Had I known he was going to do that, I wouldn't have even mentioned it.

I personally don't think they're of much use, especially now that there's much more information on Gulenko's subtype system available.

[Marie84]

there are no type specific DCNH descriptions anywhere that I'm aware of, at least none written by Gulenko
The only thing available is some users giving their input on what a type by DCNH would be like, or how the old subtypes descriptions could apply to it

I really do hope Gulenko eventually gets around to expanding on it one day, though

[jughead]

"I personally don't think they're of much use, especially now that there's much more information on Gulenko's subtype system available. "

LINK

[Krig the Viking]

jughead: Here's a couple of links to things I've translated: Man as a System of Types
Descriptions of the DCNH Subtypes

If you can read Russian, or even decipher Google translations of Russian, Gulenko has a bunch of articles on various topics here: School of Humanitarian Socionics, and Gulenko's blog is here: Quaternion.

I really do hope Gulenko eventually gets around to expanding on it one day, though

I actually started to write up some descriptions for each type, but I decided I needed to learn more and have a clearer mental picture before continuing. Someday I'll get around to it, though.

[Marie84]

actually started to write up some descriptions for each type, but I decided I needed to learn more and have a clearer mental picture before continuing. Someday I'll get around to it, though.

I've enjoyed reading your jot descriptions for it so far, like the LII's ones you did a while back. If you ever want to go back into this more, even just to brainstorm , I'd find it an interesting read

[Ave]

Keep in mind that these aerent meant as DCNH descriptions starfall.

[redbaron]

Keep in mind that these aerent meant as DCNH descriptions starfall.

Right.

http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p..._DCNH_Subtypes is a good way to determine your subtype.

Oh but there's that better link from Krig! ^^

[gooey]

Anyone have any idea how a d-iei might look compared to a c-iei? I can't seem to decide which I am...

[1981slater]

Seriously, a Spanish celebrity D-IEI (female) DEMANDED to her D-SLE husband to beat her up when in bed.

[FDG]

Seriously, a Spanish celebrity D-IEI (female) DEMANDED to her D-SLE husband to beat her up when in bed.

Who?

[Ave]

Yeah, who?

[Nowisthetime]

Anyone have any idea how a d-iei might look compared to a c-iei? I can't seem to decide which I am...

She is a Finnish talk show host. I type her D-IEI. See video. It's in Finnish so you won't probably understand anything. As for C-IEI I think Ingmar Bergman is one, not sure, but you can check interviews with him.

[gooey]

How might the dominant IEI differ from the creative IEI? thanks.

[Saberstorm]

Look up Rosesofsunshine3 on youtube. I bet she is an IEI "creative subtype" in the sense that she should be more outgoing like an EIE, however she is still an INFp because of the torrential thought process and positive outlook.

It might be roseofsunshine3 or 03 or something like that...

[gooey]

thanks. I didn't know positivity was an aspect of the creative type though...is it?

[Clumsy]

thanks. I didn't know positivity was an aspect of the creative type though...is it?

If it's a defining characteristic, I'd say I'm mistyped (I was typed on a thread awhile ago as Creative; perhaps I'm more of the Harmonizing type?). I'm very different from the YouTube user above (I've seen her videos before).

I can be "sunny" if the mood calls for it, that is around the people that sort of desire it. If I'm just by myself though, as she was in her video, I think I come off quite differently. More naturally melancholy I guess.

Maybe her Enneagram type/stacking is a lot different from mine though? I hope someone can weigh in on this with more information.

[gooey]

This system is...being really complicated to me. I don't think much fits...but that could just be me. Anyone else think this? In particular I am having extreme troubles deciding between dominant and creative...I just...feel like I have attributes of both and they fluctuate through time (IEI btw)...so...yeah...fuck dchn... lol

[Pa3s]

DCNH is a suitable component in the subtype system of socionics and it actually makes sense. If you can't decide about your DCNH type, you should take a look at the IE which are strengthened by the D, C, N and H subtype.

Strengthening the linear-assertive functions , whatever position this pair occupies within the framework of the sociomodel, forms a dominant subtype (D)
Strengthening of the mobile-flexible functions leads to the appearance of a creative subtype (C)
Strengthening of the balanced-stable functions gives a normalizing subtype (N)
Strengthening the receptive-adaptive functions engenders a harmonizing subtype (H)

More here

[mu4]

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...tegory/47-DCNH

Here are a few articles on this site as well as the original discussions which occured.

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...810#post661810

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...425#post622425

[gooey]

Thanks guys. I've read these and can't decide. I'm either C or D. I know two other IEI's... one is either normalizing or harmonizing. And the other is either creative or dominant.

The latter doesn't go out as much as I do but I feel he, on the whole, is a bit more impulsive than me...and I categorize impulsive as like...randomly dancing or acting on a whole just more fluid, laid back, talking to random hobos with ease, etc...i might come off as a tiny bit more serious perhaps and a tiny bit more rigid maybe...I also feel really flexible though...like, I can talk to various types of people whereas I feel he centers around particular types of people moreso than I do...I also feel he does more things like joins clubs and goes on random excursions, etc...but that might be because I just simply don't care about little events like that as it sounds like a tremendous waste of time. He has greater sensing than I do...As in he seems to have a greater grasp on stuff going on around him (concerts, shows, food tasting delicious, etc.)...but on the whole, I feel like I have a greater grasp on the emotional atmosphere of the room and it feels weird when no one is talking or something...I also can be a bit more aristocratic than him as in, I'm much more likely to make the statement "People are not equal" than he is...But I relate greatly to BOTH the C and D descriptions...for C, I definitely get zoned into ideas and everything around me seems to disappear...everything...for D, I'm definitely a goal-oriented person...MUCH more so than he is. can anyone diagnose me? ...I also saw that creative can have an inclination towards mirror which might explain my case (my mirror is enfj)...but, at the same time, this is confusing because it would infer a strong ex. feeling function...which is supposed to be a more 'dominant function'...?

Also, I feel like this: "The Creative is not interested in anything besides that which is truly interesting to him" is the definition of my life...but this could just be an IEI thing and I still feel like a lot of the stuff in the D description is true of me too...hmm...this is starting to make my head hurt..lol

[Ave]

The D subtype is pushy and agressive, the C subtype isnt that way.

[Pookie]

How might the dominant IEI differ from the creative IEI? thanks.

D - Fe/Te - Je
C - Se/Ne - Pe
N - Fi/Ti - Ji
H - Si/Ni - Pi

C's exhibit a demeanor more like an EP, and D's exhibit a demeanor more like an EJ

The Dichotomies to look up for reference are Dynamic(C)/Static(D) and Irrational(C)/Rational(D)

In a broader generalized sense though, Dominants come across as more assertive, and Creatives more flexible.

[redbaron]

They say I'm harmonizing. Sometimes I'm not so sure. I can be, and have been, all of the above. I can be assertive, flexible, quiet, melancholy, positive, upbeat, I just don't know what my subtype is anymore. Or maybe Maritsa is right and I'm EIE-Si sub or something nutty like that. LOL

[Ave]

The Maritsa school(which I dont represent, just sayin') doesnt beleive in sbubtypes.

[glam]

i think i may be a Harmonizing IEI.

from Gulenko's description of Harmonizing types:

A few words about the indispensable role of the harmonizing personality in a stable group. The Harmonizer is designed to ensure feedback in the communicative system. It sends the signals of correction, being an indicator of the psychological atmosphere. H-subtype at first sharply and even violently resists forcible demands, but then gradually submits and adapts to it. On the one hand, he is the weak link, but on the other hand, without his contribution the system loses vitality under conditions of the lack of energy resources.

not sure if it's all DCNH related, but with regards to my behavior in groups, this is something i very much identify with. sometimes i wonder why i seem to have success within certain groups or communities, because i am not usually the most knowledgeable, skilled, talented, ambitious, etc. person in the group (which does make me feel like the "weak link", as the description states). i think my value lies in things like being likeable and accommodating, having a calming presence, not encouraging discord, etc. also i am quieter and am willing to stay in the background, leaving the spotlight to those who want to be in it. i don't generally push my agenda onto others. i have been told that even though i am quiet, i do have a noticeable presence within a group. perhaps my composure is like a calming sort of energy that others react to - and that is part of what it means to be a Harmonizing type?

ETA: also if i depart from being composed, such as getting outwardly get upset or angry about something, often other people in the group seem to get concerned and pay attention to what i have to say. since i usually seem so calm, perhaps people are more inclined to take seriously whatever the problem i have reacted to is in those moments when i lose composure. maybe that goes along w/what Gulenko wrote about Harmonizers sending the "signals of correction" and "being an indicator of the psychological atmosphere" within the group.

[gooey]

wait...if D values Fe and Te, then aren't all IEI-Fe (using 2 sub-system) types, by definition, dominant personalities?

[Pookie]

wait...if D values Fe and Te, then aren't all IEI-Fe (using 2 sub-system) types, by definition, dominant personalities?

You're using a 4 sub-system definition and applying it to a 2 sub-system. So no, that doesnt work.

All IEI-Fe (using the sub-system) types, by definition, are dominant or normalizing personalities. As the 2 sub-system doesn't differentiate between Fe and Fi, and the DCNH does.

[Ave]

Thats not true Pookie. DCNH=/= 2 subtypes.

[gooey]

"All IEI-Fe (using the sub-system) types, by definition, are dominant or normalizing personalities."

what? I thought they were either C or D because both those types are more extroverted...and iei-fe is clearly more extroverted than iei-ni?

[Ave]

"All IEI-Fe (using the sub-system) types, by definition, are dominant or normalizing personalities."

what? I thought they were either C or D because both those types are more extroverted...and iei-fe is clearly more extroverted than iei-ni?

They are not necessarily either. Any combination is possible, read my post, believe, and be unconfused.

[Krig the Viking]

wait...if D values Fe and Te, then aren't all IEI-Fe (using 2 sub-system) types, by definition, dominant personalities?

It depends on which 2-subtype system you're using. If you're using the "Emphasized Ego Function" system, then Ni-IEI and Fe-IEI are directly equivalent to H-IEI and D-IEI, respectively. Gulenko's 2-subtype descriptions reflect this system. The "Emphasized Ego Function" system has no way to categorize C-IEI and N-IEI.

However, if you're using the "Rational/Irrational" or "Accepting/Producing" system, then Ni-IEI (or "Irrational IEI") is equivalent to H and C IEI, while Fe-IEI (or "Rational IEI") is equivalent to N and D IEI. The Meged/Ovcharov 2-subtype descriptions might be closer to this version.

[EyeSeeCold]

It depends on which 2-subtype system you're using. If you're using the "Emphasized Ego Function" system, then Ni-IEI and Fe-IEI are directly equivalent to H-IEI and D-IEI, respectively. Gulenko's 2-subtype descriptions reflect this system. The "Emphasized Ego Function" system has no way to categorize C-IEI and N-IEI.

However, if you're using the "Rational/Irrational" or "Accepting/Producing" system, then Ni-IEI (or "Irrational IEI") is equivalent to H and C IEI, while Fe-IEI (or "Rational IEI") is equivalent to N and D IEI. The Meged/Ovcharov 2-subtype descriptions might be closer to this version.

Meged-Ocharov proposed Inert/Contact or Vertical subtypes, I would think their subtype descriptions are in that vein as well, but they never explicate it so. At the least, that may be one of the reasons for subtype description discrepancy.

[Krig the Viking]

Meged-Ocharov proposed Inert/Contact or Vertical subtypes, I would think their subtype descriptions are in that vein as well, but they never explicate it so. At the least, that may be one of the reasons for subtype description discrepancy.

I was wondering about that, actually. I was going to go re-read all their descriptions and try to deduce it from that, but then I got lazy and decided not to.

[gooey]

Ni Intuitive subtype (The Idealist)

Victor Gulenko
Facial expression is typically interrogative, and they seem calm, dreamy, and contemplative. Their line of behaviour is frequently passive. Romantic spirits. They live in the world of illusions, and they attempt to avoid negative emotions. They can be optimistic. They shrink away from conflict situations and support compromises. They are restrained in their clothing, elegant and refined. They can fulfill the functions of an abstract thinker, work in psychology and psychotherapy.

Meged/Ovcharov
The intuitive subtype appears as a quiet, tactful, languid and diffident individual. They seem torn off from reality, inert and poorly adapted to life. However, such impressions are erroneous, for they possess a fine intuition, which aids them in establishing useful connections and obtaining support from influential people. Seem externally serene but sentimentally are disposed to experience moodiness and bouts of melancholy. While their voice at times seems monotonous they often induce a light surprise, even full interest, from the interlocutor. Outwardly are pensive, slightly strained/intense.. Prone to emanate sadness masked in sardonic irony.

Fe Ethical subtype (The Diplomat)
Victor Gulenko

Flatters and is charming and communicable. If they see negative emotions in the people around them, they will try to arrange things so that people will calm down. They will mobilize well in dangerous situations. Loves to be in the centre of attention and dramatize proceedings, possesses a sense of humour. They easily manipulate by intonation and voice; can work successfully as a journalist --- They easily succeed in enticing the person they talk to. Outwardly they can appear extravagant; frequently takes a bohemian and bright form.

Meged/Ovcharov
The ethical subtype provides the impression of a soft, charming and emotional person. Usually look inspired and optimistic. Possess a fine sense of humor allowing them to list their problems and failures while smiling. Are ironic, crafty, unpredictably and inconsistent in behaviour and conversation. Creating original contrasts, they can unexpectedly prick and then just as quickly embrace/kiss. Artistic and charming; are eloquent in dialogue, occasionally portraying shades of familiarity and impudence. They’re generally affable, kind and careful. Easily draw attention and thereby attract people; talent towards persuasion.

I dunno which is which here krig, these seem really similar to me...