Has Arizona gone completely nuts?

[discojoe]

Boyfriend and I (non-citizen permanent resident and resident alien, respectively) will be traveling through Arizona soon. He will have to get a new copy of his green card to be safe in case for some reason we get checked. I will be right in between visas and might not have my new visa then. This is normally not a problem, but I might very well run into police officers who are not familiar with all the specifics of visa types (I am speaking from experience).

I don't think anyone who is IS a citizen can quite comprehend how stressful these situations can be even for immigrants with legal papers. You make a tiny mistake (a document is missing a signature, for example) and it opens a HUGE can of worms. I understand that people in Arizona are not Nazis, but I would not move there after this law has been passed. Just knowing that I would have to carry my passport and legal documentation around permanently just in case (also because people often assume I am Hispanic when I am in the Southwest).

The law will inconvenience, and probably worse, a lot of legal immigrants in Arizona and is overall just a complete idiocy.

Police officers are already heavy handed assholes. I doubt this law will actually result in a net increase in people being treated like children by law enforcement agents.

And I seriously doubt that you're going to be shipped off to Mexico for looking Hispanic. Yeah, you might catch some shit from a cop (keyword: might) but I don't think you really have reason to complain about this one law whose enforcement will probably not result in the kinds of blatant discrimination you're talking about -- at least not in levels greater than those that already occur in the southern and southwestern United States.

As for Ethnic Studies, I have yet to hear a reasonable argument in favor of banning Ethnic Studies AND ENGLISH TEACHERS WITH AN ACCENT.

As an English teacher with an accent, I feel profoundly discriminated against.

My best economics teacher so far has been an Iranian immigrant with hilariously broken English. He arrived dirt poor, thirty years old, not knowing a single word of English besides hotdog. He learned English, went to school, married an attractive white woman (only including that for lulz) and got a doctorate in International Trade & Finance.

He doesn't whine or complain about discrimination, which he probably does experience, but rather is grateful for being in a country where he is actually allowed to go to school and earn a PhD and not have to wait in line for his family's weekly chicken or worry about the secret police knocking on his door in the middle of the night (which does happen there). He brought his aunt here and she broke down in tears after taking one step inside a generic grocery store.

I think people who come here from nanny states feel like they're not being properly babied and coddled, whereas people who come here from police states are wowed and amazed and grateful to Allah for all the freedom and prosperity at their fingertips.

[Kim]

And I seriously doubt that you're going to be shipped off to Mexico for looking Hispanic. Yeah, you might catch some shit from a cop (keyword: might) but I don't think you really have reason to complain about this one law whose enforcement will probably not result in the kinds of blatant discrimination you're talking about -- at least not in levels greater than those that already occur in the southern and southwestern United States.

I expect discrimination to occur, but only time will tell. I don't like the idea that someone who stops me for speeding can ask me for my immigration documents. I also find it a bit frightening that when they think they are not in order, they can take me in. This is especially relevant in my current situation in which I am switching from one visa to the next.
I complain not only for my sake. It is a total bitch to deal with law enforcement when it comes to immigration issues and yes it is likely to occur more frequently when police officers know that THEY can be subject to complaints if they don't check on people.

He doesn't whine or complain about discrimination, which he probably does experience, but rather is grateful for being in a country where he is actually allowed to go to school and earn a PhD and not have to wait in line for his family's weekly chicken or worry about the secret police knocking on his door in the middle of the night (which does happen there). He brought his aunt here and she broke down in tears after taking one step inside a generic grocery store.

I think people who come here from nanny states feel like they're not being properly babied and coddled, whereas people who come here from police states are wowed and amazed and grateful to Allah for all the freedom and prosperity at their fingertips.

I don't want to be babied or coddled, but I also don't want to be singled out and harassed. I was granted legal stay because institutions consider my background an asset, not because I begged to be let in. It's a give and take. I like it here very much, but it's not the world's single and almighty nation of prosperity and freedom. It suits my career goals and it's a fun place to live.

Plenty of Iranians get Ph.Ds in Iran and plenty of U.S.-Americans do not because they don't have the opportunity. And there are grocery stores in Iran, you know...?

[tcaudilllg]

I expect discrimination to occur, but only time will tell. I don't like the idea that someone who stops me for speeding can ask me for my immigration documents. I also find it a bit frightening that when they think they are not in order, they can take me in. This is especially relevant in my current situation in which I am switching from one visa to the next.
I complain not only for my sake. It is a total bitch to deal with law enforcement when it comes to immigration issues and yes it is likely to occur more frequently when police officers know that THEY can be subject to complaints if they don't check on people.

I don't want to be babied or coddled, but I also don't want to be singled out and harassed. I was granted legal stay because institutions consider my background an asset, not because I begged to be let in. It's a give and take. I like it here very much, but it's not the world's single and almighty nation of prosperity and freedom. It suits my career goals and it's a fun place to live.

Plenty of Iranians get Ph.Ds in Iran and plenty of U.S.-Americans do not because they don't have the opportunity. And there are grocery stores in Iran, you know...?

The short answer is that the Republican Party has selected a new minority to pick on: Hispanics.

What you need to do is point out to your Hispanic friends, and remind them that it is imperative that they show up and the polls in November.

As for Brewer, I think a prison cell is the best place for her, and for the people who voted for this legislation. The dynamic is changed and it's time for progressives and liberals to exercise a strong hand to safeguard their rights against their fanatical enemies.

BG, you don't seem to understand, probably because you don't know enough police: the sliding down the slippery slope has already begun. You see it in Kim's feelings now -- it's a revival of the civil rights struggles of the 60s. These rationalizations are how tragedy begins. One rationalization follows another, until eventually people have rationalized killing each other. We'll wait and see if Arizona gets its act together in November, or I'm afraid it will be necessary to do some house cleaning in America, the military way. I personally don't want to have to face this forever. I want a settlement, a moment where the Discojoes of the world feel cowed and powerless. Personally I think there should be internment camps for suspected racists. They are the real plague infecting society.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Tcaud, I have a suggestion for you.

Your post, however well-intentioned, obviously just created a bunch of dorks that are arguing with each other.

Why not be the change you want to see the world, and be nicer and kinder to hispanic people *yourself*, instead of bitching about perceived bigotry and discrimination (I don't have all the facts myself obviously, but I'm just saying about what could be really helpful). Don't curse the darkness, light a candle. You are a leftie, but also you're being a limosuine liberal. Get out there and be an advocate for hispanic (and homosexual, and women) causes yourself, get out in the front lines if you aren't already- and simply be nice to them and encourage them emotionally. That's the only thing minorities really want any way.

That's what liberals and the left really needs. Grassroot support, people who are willing to stand up and fight for them in the *real world.* Not just in books or the media.

Just think about it man. You could stop a hispanic drug dealer from making poor choices and help him get a good education.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

There are many government agencies tcaud that you could get a job as a social worker helping minorities that are on the fringes of society and need encouragement to not fall through the cracks.

You could do so much good in the world. I'm serious. But everytime you just bitch at people on a message board, with a mix of people who are both left and right (and centrist) you just cause conflict.

[Kim]

I don't think that it's enough to just be nice to minorities and I also don't think that it's all minorities want. Perhaps the OP is doing more, e.g. writes letters, makes phone calls, attends rallies. How do you know he doesn't?

Additionally, opening a thread here might bring the issue to the attention of people who otherwise would not know about it and the discussion might spark further interest in more information. I don't think there is anything wrong with "a bunch of dorks that are arguing with each other."

[GallopingQwerty]

That's what liberals and the left really needs. Grassroot support, people who are willing to stand up and fight for them in the *real world.* Not just in books or the media.

I hate to point this out and bust your bubble, but we currently have the house, senate and presidency. I think we've been doing just fine on the grassroots movement recently.

There are many government agencies tcaud that you could get a job as a social worker helping minorities that are on the fringes of society and need encouragement to not fall through the cracks.

So you're saying that all minorities are drug addicts/dealers/whatever that need support from our welfare services? Wow, how... racist of you. Sadly this is a view that quite a few people hold, despite the overwhelming evidence that white people actually hold the majority in our welfare system.

You could do so much good in the world. I'm serious. But everytime you just bitch at people on a message board, with a mix of people who are both left and right (and centrist) you just cause conflict.

And discussion. What's the point of only talking about a problem with people who agree with you? Nothing constructive would ever get done, and any solutions proposed would only be from one point of view.

The only folks who need to have everyone agree with them all the time need some help with their self image. Clearly, tcaud is not one of those people.

[Jimbean]

This has little or nothing to do with race.

If it were Germany south of the border of the US, policy would not be different than it is now.

[tcaudilllg]

Just think about it man. You could stop a hispanic drug dealer from making poor choices and help him get a good education.

There ain't no fighting the influence of drugs. Man, those people just live on the edges. Let 'em stay there.

[tcaudilllg]

Can anyone make the case for having immigration quotas at all?

[Kim]

Increased diversity?

[tcaudilllg]

Tcaud, I have a suggestion for you.

Your post, however well-intentioned, obviously just created a bunch of dorks that are arguing with each other.

Well I don't look at it that way.

Why not be the change you want to see the world, and be nicer and kinder to hispanic people *yourself*, instead of bitching about perceived bigotry and discrimination (I don't have all the facts myself obviously, but I'm just saying about what could be really helpful). Don't curse the darkness, light a candle. You are a leftie, but also you're being a limosuine liberal. Get out there and be an advocate for hispanic (and homosexual, and women) causes yourself, get out in the front lines if you aren't already- and simply be nice to them and encourage them emotionally. That's the only thing minorities really want any way.

That's what liberals and the left really needs. Grassroot support, people who are willing to stand up and fight for them in the *real world.* Not just in books or the media.

Sure, when I get my degree. I am actually active on DemocraticUnderground, so I am involved with the grass roots. Protesting doesn't really make a difference... boycotting does, and I want to show my support for the people who are doing it. And I want to put pressure. All those things I can do from DemocraticUnderground.

But this all is actually related to personality theory. I've fleshed out the immanence theory a little more than I have revealed up to this point. But now, I feel it important enough to share the rest of what I know, so I'll be posting about it shortly.

You know the truth though? I don't even see a difference between Hispanics and Caucasians. One has a deeper tan than the other, and frequently dark hair. That's pretty much it. This doesn't have anything to do with Hispanics... it has to do with personality pathology run amok in America. American are so obsessed with messiahs so self-immolate on behalf of the unworthy that they don't take a hard enough line against personality pathology. I intend to be a part of the hardening of that line, but I need my degree first.

What do you plan to do, B&D?

[discojoe]

tcaudilllg ith tho retawded.

[FDG]

You know the truth though? I don't even see a difference between Hispanics and Caucasians. One has a deeper tan than the other, and frequently dark hair.

Uhm, that's because the caucasian definition in the US is weird/wrong/racist. Maritsa would perhaps be pegged as somewhat hispanic, even though she's as caucasian as a human being can be.