Has Arizona gone completely nuts?

[Cyrano]

Racial profiling is fine.

Go away, tcaudilllg. No one likes you and you contribute nothing to society.

Would be easier if you could get them to wear yellow bands on their arms.

[Jimbean]

There is a lot more to this than you folks are probably aware of.

And no... it is not racism.

[discojoe]

Racial profiling is perfectly fine when you know that the people you're looking for are of a particular race. It would be stupid to mandate that police needed to meet a quota of white people just to make it "fair" for Mexicans who don't respect our laws.

However, I think that the best solution for this problem is to simply impose monetary sanctions on those who employ illegal immigrants, as that would take away much of the incentive for these people to come here in the first place.

To the question of banning ethnic "diversity" education in our schools, I am completely in favor of such legislation, since education of this kind is just watered-down bullshit to make minorities feel like their culture has contributed more to Western Civilization than it really has. Politics has no place in the school system, and mandatory politically motivated curriculum should absolutely be banned, though colleges should be free to offer whatever electives they wish to teach.

Instead of "black history," students should learn history.

[GallopingQwerty]

However, I think that the best solution for this problem is to simply impose monetary sanctions on those who employ illegal immigrants, as that would take away much of the incentive for these people to come here in the first place.

Holy crap, I actually agree with discojoe on something?? I had to double check that a few times

But, yes. I think it is incredibly unfair to keep punishing the people who are coming here because they can make better lives for themselves and their families without punishing the people who go under the radar to offer them those opportunities without going through legal channels.

For example, I used to work for a company in Oakland that employed 99% illegals from the day labor sections of town. He literally saved tens of thousands of dollars every 6 months because he didn't pay taxes on any of them, didn't pay for benefits, didn't pay overtime or holiday pay. This company is the reason I get pissed off when I see those email forwards ranting about how illegal immigrants are making tons of money because they don't pay any of that from their checks: they don't, but they also don't get even half of what they *should* be paid if they were citizens. But that doesn't matter to them in the short run, because they're still making way more here on a crappy salary than they did when they were starving back home... so they come here.

So who should be punished: the person trying to feed their family, or the company taking advantage of that desire to save themselves money? This is America, land of capitalism, so... of course it's the immigrants instead of the business drawing them in. Because it's all about making as much money as you can, as long as you're here legally.

Sigh.

Re: Black History month, I know it's not PC to say but I think they either need to start dedicating every month to another culture as well or they need to let it go. After all, we don't have Irish Indentured Servant month, and they were a problem long after black people were set free.

Just sayin'.

[discojoe]

White history month is every month, baby.

First, please don't condescendingly refer to me as baby.

Second, the purpose of history class is not to teach about "white" or "black" history; rather, it is to learn about the important events that have shaped society so that people will have a solid foundation of contextual knowledge with which to judge current events. Adding a particular race's history into the curriculum for the purpose of "fairness" is not conducive to actual learning, especially given how politically motivated the curriculum is. Why am I being forced to learn something just to make a group of people feel better?

Third, there is not any equivalent, official or de facto, of "white history month." In my college history class, I learned about Western Civilization, and the curriculum, for blatantly politically correct purposes, constantly mentioned African Civilization and women. So it's not like our classes don't already inject black history into the curriculum.

Fourth, you may wish to consider why a hypothetical history class would primarily talk about the history of Caucasian peoples. Might it have something to do with societal contribution?

By the way, my role model is a black person, so I'd like to offer you a preemptive STFU in the event of any racism accusations.

[Existential Potato]

Hard to believe this kind of thing surprises people, as it's not like racial profiling isn't already present in other states as an unwritten guideline.

Anyway, all of a school's classes are on a political agenda; the removal of black history would only end up angering folks and wouldn't solve any of the problem, as it would be replaced with more BS.

[Krig the Viking]

The way I heard it, the law allows police to ask for identification from people they have already stopped for other reasons (speeding, jaywalking, murder, etc.), and whom they have reason to believe may be an illegal immigrant (i.e., something more substantial than "He looks kinda Hispanic"). It does not allow them to just stop people randomly on the street for no reason, it just allows them to ask for proof of immigration status in addition to driver's license, etc.

At least, that's what I heard, I haven't really looked into it.

[Edit: The real problem, of course, is the overly high minimum wage and heavy tax burden that makes it worth it for employers to risk breaking the law to hire illegal immigrants.]

[GallopingQwerty]

The way I heard it, the law allows police to ask for identification from people they have already stopped for other reasons (speeding, jaywalking, murder, etc.), and whom they have reason to believe may be an illegal immigrant (i.e., something more substantial than "He looks kinda Hispanic"). It does not allow them to just stop people randomly on the street for no reason, it just allows them to ask for proof of immigration status in addition to driver's license, etc.

At least, that's what I heard, I haven't really looked into it.

I wish that were true for all officers.

Truck driver forced to show birth certificate claims racial-profiling | Phoenix News | Arizona News | azfamily.com | Featured Videos

[GallopingQwerty]

[Edit: The real problem, of course, is the overly high minimum wage and heavy tax burden that makes it worth it for employers to risk breaking the law to hire illegal immigrants.]

I'll agree with the crappy tax structure, but not the overly high minimum wage part. At least here in CA, it's just about impossible to live on minimum wage as it is. If they cut it down even further we'd have even more problems with poverty and people with jobs forced to live on the streets than we already do.

[discojoe]

The way I heard it, the law allows police to ask for identification from people they have already stopped for other reasons (speeding, jaywalking, murder, etc.), and whom they have reason to believe may be an illegal immigrant (i.e., something more substantial than "He looks kinda Hispanic"). It does not allow them to just stop people randomly on the street for no reason, it just allows them to ask for proof of immigration status in addition to driver's license, etc.

At least, that's what I heard, I haven't really looked into it.

[Edit: The real problem, of course, is the overly high minimum wage and heavy tax burden that makes it worth it for employers to risk breaking the law to hire illegal immigrants.]

It's infuriating to me that the minimum wage law has priced legal residents out of work, while illegal immigrants swoop in to fill the supply shortage.

[GallopingQwerty]

It's infuriating to me that the minimum wage law has priced legal residents out of work, while illegal immigrants swoop in to fill the supply shortage.

Oh c'mon man, they don't "swoop", they're just willing to take the crappy jobs for crappy pay. I have friends who have been out of work for a year and they still wouldn't take the pay that the day laborers would.

So again I ask, whose fault is it? The folks who will take any work so they can feed their families, or the employers who deliberately go after them to save money?

[Eldanen]

First, please don't condescendingly refer to me as baby.

Second, the purpose of history class is not to teach about "white" or "black" history; rather, it is to learn about the important events that have shaped society so that people will have a solid foundation of contextual knowledge with which to judge current events. Adding a particular race's history into the curriculum for the purpose of "fairness" is not conducive to actual learning, especially given how politically motivated the curriculum is. Why am I being forced to learn something just to make a group of people feel better?

Third, there is not any equivalent, official or de facto, of "white history month." In my college history class, I learned about Western Civilization, and the curriculum, for blatantly politically correct purposes, constantly mentioned African Civilization and women. So it's not like our classes don't already inject black history into the curriculum.

Fourth, you may wish to consider why a hypothetical history class would primarily talk about the history of Caucasian peoples. Might it have something to do with societal contribution?

By the way, my role model is a black person, so I'd like to offer you a preemptive STFU in the event of any racism accusations.

Actually, I was agreeing with you, lol.