What do you guys think? Enfp?
Bruce Lee
What do you guys think? Enfp?
Last edited by silke; 05-30-2016 at 08:32 PM. Reason: updated links
Reminds me of an ENTp. But he's also rather... vague.
He also says that he's about expressing yourself totally and completely and honestly... Maybe he's a Fe type. Or maybe what he's saying is influenced by the Chinese culture. Or maybe...
Ti-ESTp.
How did you guys arrive to your conclusion... Just because he's a martial artist, he's Se? I've actually watched all the 3 parts... I'd be interested in hearing how you guys reached your conclusion...
No, that's too simplistic. Not all martial artists are Se eg. Jackie Chan. In addition to the videos listed, I have read up about him before.Originally Posted by Singularity
His philosophies seem rather Ti and Ni-seeking imo.:
"If I tell you I'm good, you would probably think I'm boasting, If I tell you I'm no good, You KNOW I'm lying.
Be Formless, shapeless like water. Now if you put water into a cup it becomes the cup, you put water into a bottle it becomes the bottle, you put it into a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash, be water my friend.
If there is a God, he is within. You don't ask God to give you things, you depend on God for your inner theme.
Before I practised the Way, A cloud was just a cloud and a mountain was just a mountain. After I'd studied the Way, a cloud was no longer a cloud, a mountain was no longer a mountain. Now that I understand the Way, A cloud is again just a cloud, a mountain is just a mountain. (The clouds and mountains are simply kicks and punches).
The mind is like a fertile garden in which anything that is planted, flowers or weeds, will grow.
Use only that which works, and take it from any place you can find it.
The more relaxed the muscles are, the more energy can flow through the body. Using muscular tensions to try to "do" the punch, or attempting to use brute force to knock someone over, will only work to opposite effect.
Mere technical knowledge is only the beginning of Kung Fu, to master it, one must enter into the spirit of it.
There are lots of guys around the world that are lazy. They have big fat guts. They talk about chi power and things they can do, but don't believe it.
I'm not a master, I'm a student-master, meaning that I have the knowledge of a master and the expertise of a master, but I'm still learning, So I'm a student-master. I don't believe in the word master, I consider the master as such when they close the casket.
Do not deny the classical approach, simply as a reaction, or you will have created another pattern and trapped yourself there.
Jeet Kune Do, It's just a name, don't fuss over it. There's no such thing as a style if you understand the roots of combat.
When I look around I always learn something, and that is to be yourself always, express yourself, and have faith in yourself. Do not go out and look for a successful personality and duplicate him. Now that seems to be the prevalent thing happening in Hong Kong, like they always copy mannerism, but they never start from the root of his being and that is, how can I be me?
Put every great teacher together in a room, and they'd agree about everything, put their disciples in there and they'd argue about everything.
By adopting a certain physical posture, a resonant chord is struck in spirit.
Wine may become so dilute that few will drink of it.
Eventually, you learn to read groups of words. Where a student will see three motions, the experienced man will see one, because he see's the overall energy path.
The void is no mere emptiness, but is real, free and existing. It is the source from which all things arise and return. It cannot be seen, touched or known, yet it exists and is freely used. It has no shape, size, colour or form, and yet all that we see, hear, feel and touch is "it". It is beyond intellectual knowing and cannot be grasped by the ordinary mind. When we suddenly awake to the realization that there is no barrier, and has never been seen, one realizes that one is all things, mountains, rivers, grasses, trees, sun, moon, stars, universe are all oneself. There is no longer a division or barrier between myself and others, no longer any feeling of alienation or fear. Realizing this, results in true compassion. Other people and things are not seen as apart from oneself, on the contrary, as one's own body."
More quotes from wikiquote: Bruce Lee - Wikiquote
But he's really vague! (And metaphorical). You'd think that if he was an ST, then he wouldn't be so vague? Vagueness = Feelings. But I guess... ENTps can also have strange thoughts sometimes.
Based on VI, he seems rather Ti and Se>Ne as well, even in his photos when he is not fighting:
Come on... VI? He still looks like an ENTp, though. I wouldn't rule out ESFp, but I don't know. I don't think that VIing is a good way of typing people. If I had to say... maybe ESFp would be right.
I got a sense from these quotes that his perception is quickly switching between Ni and Se like he's equilibrating them, which points to one of these being his creative function - i.e. a Ni/Se rational type. The Se of ESTps is "inert" and they have difficulty 'switching out' of its perspective in such a flexible manner as he's going it. I'd go with LSI > SLE for him.
If you are seeing Fi then argue for ISTp, not ENFp. ENFp is a terrible guess.
obviously a blown up country isn't going to be bringing in good revenue .. to say there is a direct connection may be stretching it though
ESE-Si
2nd guess being LSI-Se
Bruce Lee was SLE (not sure of subtype, probably Se). Like most SLEs out there, emphasis was on building an image. I bet he wasn't really that "fierce" in private, he simply cultivated that public image.
I've always thought of Chuck Norris as LSE (Te subtype). He was far more expressive compared to SLIs like Charles Bronson (Si subtype).
Jackie Chan is probably Fe-SEI (reminds me of Nikita Krushev).
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| NP | 3[6w5]8 so/sp | Type thread | My typing of forum members | Johari (Strengths) | Nohari (Weaknesses)
You know what? You're an individual, and that makes people nervous. And it's gonna keep making people nervous for the rest of your life. - Ole Golly from Harriet, the spy.
I don't relate to such a reasoning, but if I did, this would rather make him Se HA or Role.
ESE just works.
That sounds reasonable for Se base. Ne may be also be interested in building an image for a public they have the ability to know extremely well, but that has nothing to do with Se role.
LSI - Se
" I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times."
As far as I know, SLE's either don't (feel the) need to cultivate a "fierce" image (in public) or they actually are "fierce" in private too.
LSI-Se
ILE. Man was a systemiser and a diverse intellectual.
Not everybody is ILE Holon
Systemiser - that sounds like a convincing argument for Ti. Just you have to tell whether this is produced by him or is inherited (outer influence). Consider that the world of martial arts is traditionally systemising, this is how it is inherited and how all (or most) of them do it.
In my knowledge Lee's own school, Jeet Kune Do, is eclectic, in opposition to an unitary construction. This points contrary to a Ti type, eclectic elements simply don't go with each other consistently. I just read a little about JKD, I have to disagree with your proposition.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeet_Kune_Do
I honestly think people are confusingfor
in Lee.
Ah, sorry @The Ineffable, that wasn't really an exceptionally serious suggestion on my part. I don't really know Socionics enough to type people.
I now side with SLE, because him and Tupac are my faves. Beta Males unite!
Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.
mmhmm
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
SLE-Ti... not. Not to be bitchy but why are people so confident and typical in theirsubtype so we can rationalize him seeming less EP than SLEs typically are while still typing him SLE." :/ That shit is also done for other typings on here, not just SLEs. Whenever anyone thinks someone is
LSI is a better typing than SLE in some ways and not so much in others (they also type him ISTP in MBTI, I think). I do agree that he is introverted and has a subjective focus but his emotionality is quite strong for someone with 1 dimensionalor someone
Sure, he was an actor but compare him to Clint Eastwood, who some peeps in chatbox agreed LSI fit. A lot more rigid and fits IJ and not much emoting at all. CE seems fairly impersonal and logical as well, Lee seems more ethical to me.
Wish this guy was more active here, not this post specifically but his posts in general from what I've seen are pretty good. SLEs, quite frankly, do not talk like Bruce at all, nor have a similar energy. They talk about concrete things, very literal and never missing a single detail in the environment. SLE sis is only concerned with concrete things, pretty materialistic really, doesn't bother much with any sort of abstractions or philosophical talking. Also, I like how people mention hisvalue or seeking for anything
VI-wise, another thing I'm dumbfounded by is how ILEs look to people here??? Like I've seen many threads where someone says Lennon, Einstein, Bruce Lee, etc, look ENTp. o.O It's like
One thing you'll notice with
I've kinda wanted to tie in the functions that are opposite (like
There's the argument for him being a great martial artists meaning he's sensory but anyone can become talented at something they put their mind to, especially introverts who are more focused and deep in their interests in comparison to extroverts who are more broad in them. Looking at those quotes, listening to him in any interview... my god, there's no way he is
Olly I'm not going to analyze Bruce Lee too deeply, but you are very very wrong if you think those quotes or the way he speaks can't belong to a LSILooking at those quotes, listening to him in any interview... my god, there's no way he is
Edit: I've noticed that IEE males (and the only ESE guy I have ever encountered ) also tend to be very into martial arts.
Last edited by darya; 12-25-2014 at 07:47 AM.
I drop by once in a while to see if anyone has tagged or quoted me, and wants to talk.
You have some solid reasoning in your post there. The whole "he's world-class good at a physical activity, therefore he must be Sensing" thing is a significant stumbling block, even for me. But when you look at how he actually thinks, how his mind processes information, it's pretty clear that he's focused on processing what's going on behind the physical activity, like you said.
I'm still torn between EIE and IEI for him, but I agree Beta NF is highly probable.
Quaero Veritas.
I disagree with the bolded and suggest that this is still another stereotype. Abstraction and philosophizing are basically higher-order thinking and can be done by any type so long as the individual has sufficient intelligence to do so.SLE-Ti... not. Not to be bitchy but why are people so confident and typical in their
... SLEs, quite frankly, do not talk like Bruce at all, nor have a similar energy. They talk about concrete things, very literal and never missing a single detail in the environment. SLE sis is only concerned with concrete things, pretty materialistic really, doesn't bother much with any sort of abstractions or philosophical talking. Also, I like how people mention his
Here I agree with the bolded. It's quite general. It describes perceptual processes, but not precisely how those processes will manifest in terms of interests or behavior.I've kinda wanted to tie in the functions that are opposite (like
Actually, those details they see can add up to a lot of insight and appear quite similar to intuitive leaps. They can seem to skip over all the dynamics and simply arrive at outcomes. It's a way of processing. It doesn't occur just in relation to outer objects, like "me see rock, rock big." In any case, it will be blocked with an introverted function. And it will be as sophisticated as the individual him- or herself.This doesn't happen much with
I haven't read about Lee lately but imo he was not interested in intangibles per se. There was always a relationship to the physical. Arguably, martial arts is itself an embodied philosophy. He inherited a tradition that didn't treat the physical and the spiritual as separate domains, imo.They wouldn't likely take martial arts and create a philosophy out of it and you won't hear them talking about what I mentioned about
I hope you're exaggerating for effect. I don't even know literally mentally retarded people who are this clueless. And please try telling any ILI I've ever known that they don't know what street they live on, ell oh ell.
All that said, I don't have a typing for him. I've generally thought he might be Beta ST and not concerned myself with reasoning it out. I think any type could be a good martial artist. I will leap on the bandwagon that says dual-seeking can create a huge emphasis in a personality. Not as sure about hidden agenda.
What you bolded was me speaking about my sister so that isn't really up for disagreement. While I wasn't talking about capability, I agree with the second sentence, my b if I suggested otherwise.
I see where you're getting at, tbh, I like it better that way too.Here I agree with the bolded. It's quite general. It describes perceptual processes, but not precisely how those processes will manifest in terms of interests or behavior.
Yeah, I know they're not cavemen or people with nothing to offer lol.Actually, those details they see can add up to a lot of insight and appear quite similar to intuitive leaps. They can seem to skip over all the dynamics and simply arrive at outcomes. It's a way of processing. It doesn't occur just in relation to outer objects, like "me see rock, rock big." In any case, it will be blocked with an introverted function. And it will be as sophisticated as the individual him- or herself.
You think? Idk, he seems clearly in tune to the intangible to me but you make a good argument. Actually, I did think after the fact, that his culture had a hand in that.I haven't read about Lee lately but imo he was not interested in intangibles per se. There was always a relationship to the physical. Arguably, martial arts is itself an embodied philosophy. He inherited a tradition that didn't treat the physical and the spiritual as separate domains, imo.
Ell Oh Ell, kinda and sorta not.I hope you're exaggerating for effect. I don't even know literally mentally retarded people who are this clueless. And please try telling any ILI I've ever known that they don't know what street they live on, ell oh ell.With a strong focus on
In short, Jung uses an introverted intuitive girl who came to him as an example of the introverted intuitive's vagueness for details. He asks her where she lives, she tells him and describes the place and Jung realizes that it is a whorehouse, and she didn't even realize she was living there. I read that to my mother and she said she can imagine me not noticing that too. I am probably worse than mentally retarded though, good thing I don't have to handle anything but a dull pocket knife at work.But yeah, I'd imagine ILI's
He seems clearly in tune to the intangible to me, I wonder a good way to demonstrate this actually, but I do agree and believe I realized this after wards that his culture could have influenced that emphasis so yeah, great point.All that said, I don't have a typing for him. I've generally thought he might be Beta ST and not concerned myself with reasoning it out. I think any type could be a good martial artist. I will leap on the bandwagon that says dual-seeking can create a huge emphasis in a personality. Not as sure about hidden agenda.
I actually appreciate your response since I can be hypocritical in that I also hate stereotyping especially through quadra and may have done a bit of stereotyping here too. That doesn't change my mind really though, I think the strongest argument and reasoning for
Anyways, thanks for the response, Golden. I didn't expect to get anything out of this thread and didn't know if I even wanted it to get active again.
This is just super difficult for me to relate to. I would lose my mind if I had to live that way. It sounds like a really extreme case of something, maybe Ni, but maybe something else. No idea what, although I think I read once that there may be a specific brain structure having to do with sense of direction. Maybe there's something in that. (ETA: It's not a brain structure, it's signal processing, here's a recent article on the topic, though it's in a crap publication.)
With a strong focus on
Regarding your spoiler rant, yeah, that's exactly the thing I see happen -- convergence on what a type is like, enough for exemplars to emerge, and then convergence around the exemplars. Does it have anything to do with reality? I guess it does, but whether it's going to match up with the written material about Socionics, less clear.
You mentioned people not making cases for their typings, and you're right, ppl don't do that, imo bc mostly it just takes too damn long. I don't have a big investment in Bruce Lee's type, but for the sake of argument, I'll give some ideas for ESTp, since that's the type you argue against. I'll just use the four dichotomies.
Irrational / rational. First of all I think he’s probably irrational. He talks about the state of mind as the point of origin for action. He seems to think that the inner state comes first.
He moves with fluidity, somewhat more in the horizontal plane (and I associate that horizontal orientation with Ep generally), and he’s not particularly linear imo.
Espousing “the style of no style” seems to me to cast off rigid systems that hamper ability to act in response to whatever is thrown at him in the moment.
Introversion / extroversion. I'll say he was an extravert. He was always looking for ways to channel his energy. He spread himself thin, fanning his interests across a broad spectrum. He created a school and brought people together through it.
He took on the external battle of being able to teach Chinese martial arts to non-Chinese. He was future-oriented, I think, like he talked about how to achieve "immortality" in terms of reputation. He said life should be constant movement, never stagnant.
Intuiting / Sensing. You’re saying that Ni has a very weak relationship to the sensory. I’m hard-pressed to see how Bruce Lee had this weak relationship. (I also don’t think this is universally true of N people, especially not to the degree you describe, but I’ll set that aside, since you have a personal story tied up in it.) In that 1971 interview he’s very on-the-spot about the complicated external logistics of filmmaking, for example.
Even though he was interested in philosophical ideas and abstractions, he himself said it wasn’t enough to think, you have to act, you have to do. And he said that everything he knows comes from martial arts. I.e., something physical.
And honestly, he has a settled, firm quality in his body that I just think is more S. Sue me.
Thinking / Feeling. It’s actually on the T / F dimension that I get more torn, because of his rejection of systems, which could be P but could be interpreted as F.
However, he seems to have very strong knowledge of the systems (i.e., Wing Chun) but to have thrown them off deliberately, and I can call that a T move.
He seems expressive (F?), but then, he’s an actor, and he’s certainly not the most expressive actor, he was rather restrained judged against other actors. (T.)
But he was really interested in people, so far as I know. He seems to have placed great importance on his relationships of all kinds. That could be E, but it could be F.
He had an overarching goal of creating an ideal martial art that was probably not achievable in reality, i.e., a perfect, universal martial art. We could put that elsewhere, but I’m going to put it in the zone of Ti. Actually, I’ll put a lot of his abstracting and systemic non-systematizing in the Ti bucket.
The end. A clumsy verbal justification for ESTp. I could approach it other ways, such as by functions. I'm not sure how something like this is any better than just saying, eh, maybe he's Beta ST. Because in the end, my opinion is still eh, maybe he's Beta ST. Also, I think someone else could take the exact same information and twist it in a different direction, in order to build a case from nothing more than an impression of his type.
Last edited by golden; 12-28-2014 at 11:41 PM.
I think he's LSI.
He's not that abstract.
wow a bit of a contentious thread.
Just to come in and add another vote, I'd say beta quadra and would narrow down to SLE/ESTp.
I thought there was general consensus that bruce lee is an SEE.
In common he's typed to ST types.
ISTj most likely.
"Should I fight, should I do anything, I have made up my mind - and that's it, baby. You better kill me before." - Bruce Lee : In his own words
ST, positive about this one
Beta, maybe.
SLE=LSI, I think.
ILE?C'mon! Lee relies on his body. It is his main tool. Of course SLEs/LSIs can innovate especially when it comes to martial arts. I think ILE could innovate in this field but putting it truly artistic practice?
All Ti ego types can be rather vague at times (=not giving opinions).
If this is not Beta
Amazing-Bruce-Lee-Wallpaper-Widescreen.jpg
then I'm hybrid of Santa and Easter bunny.
(and if above was not Ne then I don't exists
and if above wasn't Ni then I can't continue
and if that wasn't Ti
...)
Last edited by The Reality Denialist; 10-24-2015 at 07:46 PM.
I would VI Manson possibly as EIE and Lee as LSI. Anyways I have hard time at seeing ILE Fi PoLR ending up as cult leader. Ne base really? That is under ILE's perfect control unlike in EIE's case as demonstrative...
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Bruce_Lee
Seems pretty decisive person aka beta/gamma.
If this is not Ni valuing I don't know what is.Life is better lived than conceptualized
Reality is being itself.
A self-willed man obeys a different law, the one law I, too, hold absolutely sacred — the human law in himself, his own individual will.
The Moment is freedom. — I couldn't live by a rigid schedule. I try to live freely from moment to moment, letting things happen and adjusting to them.
Last edited by The Reality Denialist; 10-29-2015 at 05:45 AM.
LSI.
his acting career is the embodiment of Se creative, and his academic career embodiment of Ni HA.
He pretty much died due to being too ripped lol. Can't say an Si valuer would likely die that way.
[Today 07:57 AM] Raver: Life is a ride that lasts very long, but still a ride. It is a dream that we have yet to awaken from.
It's hard to find a love through every shade of grey.
I used to think Bruce Lee was SLE but now I tend to think he is EIE. When he talks about martial arts he tends to view it more as a means of self-expression rather than a way to dominate the opponent (although of course both were important to him). In any case, SLE is not implausible. I would have a hard time seeing him as LSI though; he was well known for being a generally excessive and unstable person. He was unable to accept a low-status "mundane" job as a waiter in a restaurant, and became more and more unreliable as a way to say "F you" to his bosses. This seems unlikely for anDemonstrative type. He would also blow all his money on flashy clothes, which again seems more like
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