What gives ESTps confidence?

[strrrng]

they're confident in matters to the degree that they're separated from subjective impressions. yeah, they can position themselves well in tactical settings, find ways to get people to work towards their ends, etc.; but they actually seem to lack a lot of confidence in the significance of their actions, and whether they even make sense to them internally. this was confirmed yet again last week. I ended up giving a large amount of interpersonal advice to an SLE female who was having issues with a sappy, manipulative IEI boyfriend. ('advice' being, essentially: "act this way, to achieve this result"). the contrast between her certainty of control over him and the anxiety that manifested in something as trivial as the wording of a text message, was comical, to say the least. but it made sense, and in a way the 'dog on a leash' stereotype generally holds true, with all IxFp-ExTp pairings.

SLEs don't need a bolstering of confidence; more of an undercurrent to stabilize and guide their forays, which, despite being carried out with a tactical precision, don't naturally stem from any broader strategical mindset.

[redbaron]

well-said.

[silverchris9]

they're confident in matters to the degree that they're separated from subjective impressions. yeah, they can position themselves well in tactical settings, find ways to get people to work towards their ends, etc.; but they actually seem to lack a lot of confidence in the significance of their actions, and whether they even make sense to them internally. this was confirmed yet again last week. I ended up giving a large amount of interpersonal advice to an SLE female who was having issues with a sappy, manipulative IEI boyfriend. ('advice' being, essentially: "act this way, to achieve this result"). the contrast between her certainty of control over him and the anxiety that manifested in something as trivial as the wording of a text message, was comical, to say the least. but it made sense, and in a way the 'dog on a leash' stereotype generally holds true, with all IxFp-ExTp pairings.

Who is the dog and who is the owner w/leash? I think both? Also, it's sort of funny how instinctive SLEs/Beta STs who know nothing about socionics turn to me/IEIs for advice (and I them for... um... everything else?).

SLEs don't need a bolstering of confidence; more of an undercurrent to stabilize and guide their forays, which, despite being carried out with a tactical precision, don't naturally stem from any broader strategical mindset.

Ditto w/Redbaron (we do agree on everything), well-said. Especially in the tactical/strategic distinction, with strategy being the more long-term thing, even if SLEs are the absolute best in the moment achieving the proximate goal.

[strrrng]

Who is the dog and who is the owner w/leash? I think both? Also, it's sort of funny how instinctive SLEs/Beta STs who know nothing about socionics turn to me/IEIs for advice (and I them for... um... everything else?).

I was suggesting the IxFp as the walker and the ExTp as the dog.

IEI-SLE doesn't feel directly possessive, regarding the walker. I would even say that my "control" of Ms. SLE from the other week was remote in form, and basically entailed me lining up events and actions in her head so that she could act more effectively.

and yeah, it seems that a tenor of IEI-SLE relations consists of the IEI aiding the SLE in looking inward to assimilate and better organize happenings, and the SLE giving specific input or the necessary push for the IEI to move forward in a given circumstance.

[Gilly]

I don't know why people think SLEs are assholes. Really, I don't; I think this is probably one of the most blatantly misguided stereotypes in the entire socion. IME LSEs are more likely to embody this image of typical male jockery and chest banging and whatnot.

[Linas]

hah, why SLEs are assholes, probably all SLEs I've been friend with were assholes in one way or another

[strrrng]

they're just assholes to people they don't like, and tend to make it clear, for efficiency's sake. also, the 'pushing' or 'testing' of others they sometimes exhibit, is just a direct way to gauge your relevancy/worth.

[Gilly]

they're just assholes to people they don't like, and tend to make it clear, for efficiency's sake. also, the 'pushing' or 'testing' of others they sometimes exhibit, is just a direct way to gauge your relevancy/worth.

See, I don't consider that being an asshole

[Gilly]

I dunno, they can be goofy and sometimes don't think about what comes out of their mouths, but I find most of them to be pretty laid back. They are definitely conniving, if that's what you mean by "asshole" behavior, ie stealing shit, doing lewd things in public, not being afraid to cut corners and such to get what they want, but most of the SLEs I know aren't what I would call "assholes" in terms of how they treat people.

[Mattie]

I don't know why people think SLEs are assholes. Really, I don't; I think this is probably one of the most blatantly misguided stereotypes in the entire socion. IME LSEs are more likely to embody this image of typical male jockery and chest banging and whatnot.

It most likely comes down to every quadra reflects their bad stereotypes on the opposing quadra, and this is only when you're aware of Socionics. When I read this title, I wanted to say something because I didn't think SeTi = confidence, or any other topical characteristic like that. And it was interesting for you to say that you found those stereotypes of TeSi, which I don't think is unique or correlative to either types in question

[Gilly]

Well I have specific behaviors and impressions in mind when I say that; I'm not saying that LSEs are guilty of all macho behavior and SLEs are just cool cats or some shit. But, personally, when I think about behaviors that stand out to me as machismo-esque and hyper-typically masculine, I think more of things that I usually see in LSEs rather than SLEs.

[Mattie]

Well I have specific behaviors and impressions in mind when I say that; I'm not saying that LSEs are guilty of all macho behavior and SLEs are just cool cats or some shit. But, personally, when I think about behaviors that stand out to me as machismo-esque and hyper-typically masculine, I think more of things that I usually see in LSEs rather than SLEs.

I used to think the opposite until a bit ago; I attributed the above qualities to SeTi. It's possible that we assign different gender markers to certain behavior instinctively, but now, I don't really assign either traits to either types, mostly due to my recent view of stripping away topical traits like this from types. I think a lot of it also goes with me having a lot of TeSi friends as opposed to SeTi friends, which I have few. I know a couple of introverted TeSi, and ones that seem more maternal than masculine. I'm also finding there are a lot of knee-jerk typings I made in the past based on this, that because they were hyper-masculine in a way I disliked, they were probably SeTi or TiSe. Upon really looking into it, masculinity and femininity can be interpreted through Socionics type, but not caused by.

[Gilly]

Let's just say they both like chains.

[Gilly]

Actually I would say that an interesting aspect of IEI/SLE, and perhaps to a degree all Se/Ni quadra relations, is that both parties feel "in control" of each other in the manner that each desires; nobody is really "in charge" but the IEI is able to emotional and mentally "guide" the SLE, reigning them in when necessary, while the SLE takes charge of the practical side of the relationship and makes sure everything keeps moving forward.

[xerx]

Some SEEs act pretty macho.

[Ezra]

I don't know why people think SLEs are assholes. Really, I don't; I think this is probably one of the most blatantly misguided stereotypes in the entire socion. IME LSEs are more likely to embody this image of typical male jockery and chest banging and whatnot.

Naaa they're far too gentle to be boisterous like that. The whole point of male jockery is Beta taking the piss out of people mentality. Yes there will be LSE jocks. But the gang-up mentality is like the ultimate stereotype of a Beta mindset.

It's clearly the other way around:

lol

I'd do her

Actually on second glance, it's a toughie... Definitely got sex appeal and a nice bod.

So yeah I probably would.

Actually she has a FIT BOD