Here:
Duality at it's best:
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/650773-post80.html
Here:
Duality at it's best:
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/650773-post80.html
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Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
True, lol. Was typing that post from a cell phone so I didn't read back through it to check for and correct errors like that. I didn't mean "easier than", I meant "as easy as". As for reasons why it might be easier than duality in the very beginning:Originally Posted by warrior-librarian
True, good point. Why IS illusionary easier at first?
Perhaps it's an N vs S thing? In other words, your dual is just that much more different from you and so it takes a small miracle to even get within close physical proximity enough to interact. Plus, each one's circle of friends are pulling them apart so to speak.
p.s. oh, Joy, i just noticed that's basically what you were alluding to when you said:
With illusionary, they approach it in a way that you can more readily adopt as your own.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
you ain't seen nothing yet Maritsa if that's what you're calling "the best" of duality. You're missing out, big time!
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
Yeah, or T vs F for rational types.
I think this is probably it. Opposite clubs live in opposite worlds.
Quaero Veritas.
ILIs don't have Si-PoLR.
Not that I think Si or lack thereof has anything to do with being a selfish asshole.
Oh WAIT my bad!! of course not--Fe-POLR + Fi-HA how could i forget. I was extremely sleepy when i wrote that.
Still, my point was, he had unvalued Si.
you thought he was a selfish asshole too?
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
I think the person whose image you created in your description was.
Well true. . .i was thinking about that too. And i think THAT is type related. In other words, this ILI was a good guy overall, but it was his lack of Si-value that really mattered to me and thus what I remember about his faults are those things. and so when an IEE like me describes my perspective of his faults, that make him look like a selfish asshole.
An SEE may not have even cared about those things and not even noticed them. In contrast, an SEE might see SLI's Ni-role or lack of Ni-provision as hurtful/annoying (not sure how exactly that would manifest), and when complaining about SLIs might also paint a picture of a selfish asshole, in a different way.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
To me it sounded like he just wasn't in a position to take care of Si needs for someone else. When it came to dinner and stuff, if a Se dominant wanted him to eat with her she'd be like "wtf dude, we should have dinner together". Or not even care. And when he wanted to go to bed, she'd either be like, "look, we're all tired but now's not the time, drink some coffee and get back to work" or she'd just handle things and let the kid sleep. Si ignoring and all...
That's exactly how I see it, Joy, now that I know socionics.
And to bring in a nuance, I did handle things and let him sleep but I was REALLLY hurt and it bothered me a lot and made him look egotistical to me, whereas an SEE probably would have felt proud and maybe saw it as him entrusting her with complete autonomy.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
If it were me and I could see that he was just really sleepy and was starting to make mistakes or simply needed rest, I'd have been like, "awwww... get some sleep. I can handle stuff from here on. Thanks for your help thus far. If I really need your input on something I'll wake you up if it can't wait or just get your input in the morning if it can." I recognize that not everyone has as strong a constitution for things like not getting enough sleep as I do, and I don't mind being the one to put in the most effort if it's something that I can hamdle on my own... and I usually try to see that it is. I like being the strong one.
My IEI friend, for example, says he needs at least 9 hours of sleep each night. Okay, fine. I think it's sort of cute, actually. There have been a couple of times, however, where we've had plans that involved getting up early to make it to early appointments. On both of those days I couldn't reach him on his cell phone because he was still sleeping and not waking up when I called. One of the times I just showed up at his house anyways and let myself in and went and woke him up. He was like, "Joy? wtfffff..." (confused, not pissed) The other time I called his home phone on my way there and had his brother go wake him up. And I didn't even hassle him about nodding off in the car on the way to the appointment.
So yeah, when it really matters I'll pretty much tell him to buck up and deal with it, and I may buy him a starbucks double shot mocha energy drink at a gas station or something. When it doesn't matter, he can be a little baby and need at least nine hours of sleep if he wants.
Don't get me wrong... I do give him shit about it. It's not like I enjoy dealing with other people's Si needs for the most part. If it's something that really needs attention, fine, but at the same time it's like, "let's hurry up and deal with this so we can move on to something more fun". But like I said... I don't expect others to have as strong a constitution as I do when it comes to that sort of thing. If someone says they need at least 9 hours of sleep most nights I'll be like, "
well adolescents need a lot of sleep.
just teasin. Actually, I need at least 8 hours myself. Hey, I just thought of another idea for a thread.
IEI-Fe 4w3
Yeah, I guess it depends on focus. To me it sounded like he was just avoiding doing anything and was more than happy to take advantage of a workaholic he was working with, letting her do most of the job. Not that I'm innocent of it myself, but at least I try to make it somehow fair.
...
This may actually be the reason why I would be annoyed (and fight it if I could), had someone tried to do it to me, so let's forget about this conversation.
Oh sorry if i made it sound that way. . .no, actually he worked hard and I admired that about him a lot. He struck me as sort of an ascetic type. He was actually in charge of me a few times, and we sort of had slightly different roles, but when I advanced to the same sort of position that he had, I would always pitch in and help out the person I was in charge of. If i ever went to sleep before them, I would make sure they were ok and let them know to wake me up for anything they needed, and I would at least care whether or not they were able to get any sleep.
Maybe he did take advantage a bit with the sleep issue (or maybe it was just that he thought I would be flattered like an SEE would be), but the food issue wasn't really him taking advantage, I think it was him just not realizing it's a problem. As for me being a workaholic, he actually got annoyed with me when i was being too detailed and taking too long to be done with work. What he did at one point was he sent me off to do some fruitless task while he quickly finished everything. I was SO MAD. I called him out on it and was like, if you want to go home earlier that's fine with me you can leave, and I'll finish the tasks the way i want to but dont send me off on a quest for something you know wont pan out just so you can just do everything without me. I felt excluded in a way. But I think he sort of liked it when i said all that, now that i think about it. Perhaps it was a flash of the Se he was seeking, but coming from my role.
Oh and he was very victim-like. down to the facial expression, body posture, and interactions with females. and very Fe-POLR, Fi-HA.
The subtleties between my interaction with him vs the SLI are QUITE interesting. SLI would finish stuff quickly and efficiently too but he sort of did it in a teamwork way. Sometimes he would even recruit my help which made me feel needed, not excluded.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
can we just pretend this thread didnt happen
<Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is
Go for it. Pretend to your little heart's content. Pretending it didn't happen means not reading or posting in it anymore though, of course.
Aww, i kind of find this thread interesting! keep it coming!
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
Is that feeling of safety with your dual a common trait for all of the dual pairs?
I would imagine it would be... I think it's the result of your 5th and 6th functions are being provided for and your 1st and 2nd rewarded.
It is for me. I ask them to provide for it all the time so I can do what I am good at which is recognizing people that I feel are a value to keep close relations with...even here on the forum, I've noticed.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
It's not something I ever feel I need to ask for. It's just how it is when I'm around my dual. Usually. Problems can come up (as no one is perfect), but when they do, fixing them is simply a matter of communicating about it.
That's exactly what i was going to say. Maritsa, if you have ask for them to provide it, they aren't your duals.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
I did find that with a few of my duals it happened naturally; like Airborne Rasputin and Smilingeyes, even Seashore, but not with the others. Maybe they were distracted.
all I said was that simply I was being/feeling herassed; then you could see the duals jump out.
LSE can be very aggressive and heroic...I love that about them because I can't be like that.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Well sure... I mean, there are duals out there who I'm not close to. It's only the ones you're close to that provide that sense of safety. I wouldn't ever ask for anything like that from anyone. I mean, what do you say? "Could you make me feel safe please?"
There's more to compatibility than type.
No, in reading back at my posts and the reactions; it wasWell sure... I mean, there are duals out there who I'm not close to. It's only the ones you're close to that provide that sense of safety. I wouldn't ever ask for anything like that from anyone. I mean, what do you say? "Could you make me feel safe please?"
There's more to compatibility than type.
1. they observed aggressive behavior towards me and stepped in.
2. I said something strange like "comments like this unlease fury on me" then they step in.
3. I could use your help here. Then they step in.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
It is actually mentioned in SEE-ILI duality description (demostrative - PoLR).
By contrast, such criticizing helps The Politician to find the golden mean in his activities, to use the mean rationally and to be more scrupulous in choosing ways of achieving goals.
(...)
He needs a cheerful partner who could easily correct his tactical mistakes and not stay resentful over trifles. The Politician will divert attention from a dangerous topic, will tell a compliment at the just the right time or make everything into a joke.
Yeah that's it. Joy, I think you nailed it.
It's like, you really love people who are all 'it's no big deal' about who you are naturally, that's the thing with duality. It's like my mom covers up my dad's Se polr so organically like she just doesn't mind, she *wants* to do it, she needs to do it for her- and that's what makes them work. Other people though, can't seem to help but bully and hurt my dad's feelings about his Se polr. And like I guess it's the same thing with me and my Te.
But identicals can be nice for that too sometimes it's hard to even tell the difference between duals and identical sometimes.
I do trust Sean with my life yes, it's that natural trust. I'd trust him in a dark alley. He is gay estp and I am gay infp aren't we just the cutest thing ever? We don't even have to be talking about anything, sometimes there's nothing to talk about- we just either 'do' or 'be.'
(:
I could see this with a "dualized" identical that you don't know very well maybe. Strong vs. weak Se tends to stand out to me though. I think an identical is likely to appreciate and encourage your ego block and a dualized identical try to offer a NiFe perspective because they identify with your needs.But identicals can be nice for that too sometimes it's hard to even tell the difference between duals and identical sometimes.
I should hope so!
We don't even have to be talking about anything, sometimes there's nothing to talk about- we just either 'do' or 'be.'
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