Experiences? Is it really that bad for the supervisee?
Experiences? Is it really that bad for the supervisee?
IEI, sp/sx 4w3.
Yes and No
The supervisors who know themselves well enough not to hurt you, won't; the ones who don't know their sense of self will very much say things and do things to hurt you.
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
I think supervisees end up feeling de-valued (by no fault of the supervisor) and like the supervisor thinks they're dumb or something. Which isn't necessarily true but they do appear naive/clueless/incompetent regarding the supervisor's base function. So... it's hard. There have been lots of threads on supervision relations and the best advice is to keep interaction formal and surfacy. As a supervisor, bite your tongue (although even that is hard because when it's your base function that's offending, how do you stifle that??).
Supervision relations can have fun together though. For instance with ESE/IEI, base and creative functions are so there can be a lot of that bouncing around between them. But it gets old after awhile and not everything can be fixed using Fe.
IEI-Fe 4w3
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
I get drained around them in an odd way. I like them a lot and many are so much fun to do activities with; but for every hour spend I need a week or two of rest. I just don't understand what happends.
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Apparently I am in a supervision ring with my parents. Assuming my mom and dad have both been typed correctly...
My dad is my supervisor, and I am my mom's supervisor.
Actually, I can totally see this as highly probable, in both directions.
Oh, and if my son turns out to be an ESTp, then my mom will be his supervisor, and he would be my dad's supervisor.
My life's work (haha):
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/blog.php?b=709
Input, PLEASEAnd thank you
wow. that makes my head spin a little. lol
in my family, my father is my supervisor, my brother is my other brother's supervisor. that brother's wife, like my father, is also my supervisor. too much supervision that doesn't really lead anywhere except to hard feelings.
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
My sister supervises my mother. I think she's herself supervised by one of our aunts, but I rarely if ever see them together, for unrelated reasons. My mother's friendship with that aunt kind of reminds me with my own friendship with SEI, so super-ego probably makes sense. (Side-note: if she's LIE, I think this type should never, ever focus on their health. Or at least, destruction of the body in the name of health seems like a Si fail to me.)
No supervision for me in close family.
I'd take it over conflict any day.
i could def see thatI'd take it over conflict any day.
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
My mom (LSE) is the supervisor of me and my dad (SEI) and we are the supervisors of my brother (EIE).
yeah same, tri-supervision here, me>mother+brother>father. I've never known anyone who came from a complete circle of supervision in their immediate family, but if anyone has that would be interesting to hear about.
I think when the circle isn't complete there's always someone who can at least mediate supervision conflicts...
EII INFj
Forum status: retired
TELLL me about it!! I experienced supervision with a coworker over the past year, and it basically exploded in my face a couple months ago, fallout lasted about 1.5 months, and I still hate/mistrust her (she thinks everything is ok I think). I'd always mistrusted her from the moment i met her, but at least previously I at least sort of liked her as a quirky but friendly person. Not so much anymore.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
lol, that's not necessarily a difference between Se and Si. Se can also be about having a chill good time, while Si can also be competitive. I'd say the people who RAGE at these things are related to their fear of defeat or "failures", which are oh-so-important, and so humiliating to people who need to be WINNING all the time, like Charlie Sheen. The rage comes from their fear of defeat and humiliation. I'd say this is just a human thing and not really type related.
On a slightly related note... I think Daigo Umehara is an EII.
I'm sorry man that sucks. I can be competitive in smash but I don't get angry if I don't win and I certainly wouldn't make a big deal about a teammate who may not be as good. That means I just have to do better myself. Practice a bunch and kick the SLEs ass lol.
“No psychologist should pretend to understand what he does not understand... Only fools and charlatans know everything and understand nothing.” -Anton Chekhov
http://kevan.org/johari?name=Bardia0
http://kevan.org/nohari?name=Bardia0
wait till you beat them at games like that. that's when they really get nasty.
Yes, exactly, lol. That's also the only way to make them stop: beat them repeteadly. An ESI friend of mine which is a worse cyclist than me doesn't even attend races I partecipate in, because he can't help but being terribly pissed off when he loses. MEH @ this attitude.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
"just playing for fun" ... eh, competition IS the fun part, lol.
Well I hope you don't think that sort of thing is actually , because I'm also a " valuer" and I'm also about having a good time and I don't care much about competition or being competitive. I figure that there will always be someone who is going to be better than me at doing something... so who cares? It's rather unrealistic and irrational to assume that you can be #1 at everything, and then get pissed if you are somehow not #1.
i actually agree with this. the thing is, when all that the "competition" comes down to is that one person completely dominates the other in terms of skill, the game turns into a routine of "gee, X won again". That's not competition. Its repetition. When a game is all about exercising the purely logistical process of proving that one person happens to have more innate skill than the other, there is no real competition going on."just playing for fun" ... eh, competition IS the fun part, lol.
No, super-ego relations suck worse. At least your supervisor, mine anyway, empathizes and doesn't need a whole lot of information to understand me.
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Well, if you have to have a supervisor in a work environment.. supervisors make the best ones.
Well thanks for the concern and the effort
But one of the things that makes me mistrust LIIs is the "fake nice" act they seem to put on. I can see right through it, and I think it's ridiculous. Makes me feel like they're doing something evil behind the scenes that they're trying really hard to make me not suspect (and this actually unfortunately turned out to be the case with my LII coworker). I nipped it in the bud as soon as I found out.
So if you're not doing any backstabbing things, being "extra nice" is the wrong approach, at least as far as I'm concerned.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
You're right, but I think that's not always the case. It can be very exciting to train in order to become better, especially in video game, and then see who's the better player. For instance, I like to play strategy games against my brother in which we try to render the other's tactic useless. (We also had really cool fights in Super Smash Bros.) But some people take those things much too seriously imho. I know that they don't want to spoil the fun for others, but they still 'work' too hard to win, you know what I mean? And if they win all the time, they even start to brag about it. (Like those countless 15-year-olds who pwn the shit out of you in every fps/mmorpg just because they play 24/7) Those people are probably also the ones who are sore losers if the other migth had luck or something like this. I don't exclude cheat usage and hacking in online games for these players. I personally never use cheats, not even against AI-opponents. It totally spoils the fun imho.
In a nutshell: some competition can spice up the game, just don't overplay it and keep it fair.
„Man can do what he wants but he cannot want what he wants.“
– Arthur Schopenhauer
I tend to be more interested in the logistical process than in the competition - though that generally means comparing strategies rather than comparing people.
Frequently the strategy that comes out on top is a simple process of spamming a single move, which often annoys more competitive players. Super Smash Bros. Melee reduced the effectiveness of special moves, which made reactions more important and strategy less important... which makes the game less interesting for me and more interesting for highly competitive players.
LII-Ne
"Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
- Blair Houghton
Johari
Dunno what Smash is.
Concerning supervision relations:
I've no idea if I've ever been "supervised" by an IEE.
I hear it's considered a humbling experience...My LSE sister has this ability to put me in my place in rather embarassing ways if I get out of line and become too critical/emotional/bitchy.
She knows exactly what to say to cut the deepest. That's kind of humbling to me.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
What I mean is understanding when not to "apply" in order to avoid making someone uncomfortable. I try to do this for every relationship, unless I find it particularly limiting.
However, I know an SLI who really doesn't like me, and I actually do think my being friendly is a turn off for her because she has learned to mistrust me in the past; however it didn't seem to be a problem before she decided that I was not to be trusted.
Usually there's mutual like and respect. The Supervisee likes how their Supervisor is strong in their PoLR, and so is drawn to the Supervisor as a source of wisdom, knowledge, togetherness, or whatever. OTOH, the Supervisor is drawn to their Supervisee when they use their Demonstrative (which is the Supervisor's dual seeking function).
So, both provide the other with some kind of appreciated information.
Where the asymmetry happens is the Supervisor's information is provided in a way that the Supervisee takes as being "corrected" due to a values clash. The Supervisee can wind up feeling as if they're seen as being faulty or dysfunctional, when the Supervisor doesn't think this at all.
This happened with me and one of my LSE friends. He was quite surprised when I finally said "I know you think I'm emotional and irrational..."
Yeah yeah, this is EXACTLY how things were initially. And then she volunteered herself to help teach me this particular technique i needed to do; and then the problems started because i went to her as to an "expert" but seeking info in a Te format, which she would never really provide. Like she would answer a totally different question that i was not asking, and then she made some weird conclusions about what i must know or not know from the questions she THOUGHT i was asking. So it would degenerate into confusion on both sides, and usually i would start losing my patience with her and provide her with some negative Fe because of my annoyance. And at that point is when i think she started "taking revenge" by spreading untrue things about me behind my back. Or maybe she wanted to do that all along and just wanted to twist what i would say/ask to get fodder against me. This is how she made me feel.
In my case, she DID think I was faulty (as revealed in my discussion with her later), and was trying to intervene or something. It seemed to be very Ti vs Te- related, so yeah she obviously didn't like my POLR. And to reiterated, it only really all came to play when we started working closely together.Where the asymmetry happens is the Supervisor's information is provided in a way that the Supervisee takes as being "corrected" due to a values clash. The Supervisee can wind up feeling as if they're seen as being faulty or dysfunctional, when the Supervisor doesn't think this at all.
This happened with me and one of my LSE friends. He was quite surprised when I finally said "I know you think I'm emotional and irrational..."
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
edit: the initial version of this post was too whiny and i think i can get SLEs to like me after all! the only negative aspect is that i have to be alert in order to keep a steady and positive wavelength but they can be pretty cool individuals ;>
Last edited by Kalinoche buenanoche; 04-16-2011 at 01:40 PM.