Alphas in formal and serious situations

[Rubicon]

an Alpha NT at a wedding

[The Exception]

If and when I get married (and that's a big if) I'm not going to have a wedding. I don't like spending thousands of dollars for something that's only one day of many in your life. Sure its special and all but does it justify spending thousands of dollars and going deeper into debt. I guess I'm just not big on dressing up and the formal rituals associated with it. I don't want to spend hundreds of dollars on a dress I'll only wear once. Maybe I'm too much of tightwad, I'll admit to that. And all the planning involved and trying to get every little detail just right. It's exhausting just thinking about it. My sister's getting married later this summer, and all I've been hearing about in the last several months is wedding planning stuff. Its like it's just totally consumed her life and its hard to make time for other things. I think I'll just sign the papers and call it done. Yeah, I know that sounds unromantic and dull. Well I'd still probably go on an affordable honeymoon and have some sort of special gathering with my extended family and a few of my close friends. But it would be small and it would be pretty simple, like just meeting in a nice restaurant for a few hours.

Am I odd for thinking this way? Seems like most young women dream of their wedding day and fantasize about how beautiful it will be. My sister certainly did and she definitely wants a traditional wedding with all the fixin's. I never did any of that. Then again, alpha NT females are pretty odd. Is it an alpha NT thing? I could definitely see alpha NTs going against conventions like these. Or is it non-type related?

[Crispy]

Probably. Tradition sentiments aside, I'd say moving in together says a lot more than getting married does. Most spouses won't see it this way however.

[Rubicon]

Don't know if it's type-related, but I never dreamed about a wedding either. Dressing up like a giant meringue and having all eyes on me while I walk painfully slowly down a narrow aisle? Not my idea of fun. I hate that everything is so expected. And how the hell is making promises of commitment in front of a googly audience romantic? It'd be alright to do a fast forwarded wedding where the ceremony is done in double time. As soon as everyone sits down, the bridal party do a ridiculously fast waddle down the aisle, then the minister talks fast gibberish that no one can understand, we kiss like lightning, then really fast back like penguins towards the sea. Yay! Oh, stop for rose petals, congratulations, oh you look so lovely, shucks, ok now everyone can relax - thankyou for enduring that ridiculous series of rituals, now let's erm party!

Having said that, I might get married properly, because dieing a thousand deaths by the hands of my mother is probably worse.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Aiss]

Don't know if it's type-related, but I never dreamed about a wedding either. Dressing up like a giant meringue and having all eyes on me while I walk painfully slowly down a narrow aisle? Not my idea of fun. I hate that everything is so expected. And how the hell is making promises of commitment in front of a googly audience romantic? It'd be alright to do a fast forwarded wedding where the ceremony is done in double time. As soon as everyone sits down, the bridal party do a ridiculously fast waddle down the aisle, then the minister talks fast gibberish that no one can understand, we kiss like lightning, then really fast back like penguins towards the sea. Yay! Oh, stop for rose petals, congratulations, oh you look so lovely, shucks, ok now everyone can relax - thankyou for enduring that ridiculous series of rituals, now let's erm party!

Having said that, I might get married properly, because dieing a thousand deaths by the hands of my mother is probably worse.

Agreed. It might be partly generation-related, I think.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

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[Aiss]

It might be for you (and probably other Gammas). The ILIs I know are within two categories: the ones who have no intention to marry and live with their spouses and the ones who actually marry. Besides, there's that episode with my brother, one of the reasons to break up with his SEE gf was this - she wanted to make it "official".
And other data that I can recall if needed.

You know, technically you can break up all people of all types into those who marry and those who don't.

I don't have set views and I don't understand people who do, really. It's not like I can tell now if I would want to marry or not in ten years. One thing I relate to which is associated with Gamma is that I like things to be clear. I suppose it's part of avoiding bad relationships. I'm not going to make wild guesses about the case you mention, but I kinda see it happening, as in Fi ego wanting to define a relationship, which is also related to verifying each other's expectations.

What I was referring to by generation comment was that each one seems to put less and less emphasis on marriage, which shows through a glorification of wedding rituals. It's a slowly dying echo of marriage being the most important aspect of a woman's life - unsurprisingly, because it used to be so.

If you have the time, I'd like to hear in your own words what makes you reticent to marriage, I have my reservations concerning your understanding in what Rubicon said.

My understanding is that Rubi referred to the ritual aspect of it, as if playing through the farce changed anything. I see it more about how to get married than whether to get married at all - which is related to a multitude of other factors, not the least religion or whether there's someone you'd marry in the first place. You might be right in implying it was about whether marriage mattered at all, but I'm not at all sure it was the intended meaning.

[The Exception]

I haven't eaten at a table in weeks.

I usually eat in front of the computer.

[Creepy-male]

Conclusions from this thread: Alphas don't want to get married and eat in front of their computers.

EDIT

Though I wouldn't mind eating at a table, if I actually had one

And I wouldn't mind getting married, but it'd have to be a small ceremony. I could see it being really fun and spectacular. The Fe man, the Fe!

[The Exception]

Probably. Tradition sentiments aside, I'd say moving in together says a lot more than getting married does. Most spouses won't see it this way however.

I know one couple whose lived together for 4-5 years now but they are not getting married because they feel expected to have a formal wedding and they can't afford it. Kind of sad, really.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Aiss]

I know, just that in the same manner you can assign the same reasons for all, the essence of type-related things is in the mechanism how people reach those conclusions, depending on the circumstances as well.

I meant you cannot technically never marry and marry at some point, in most legislatures. I suppose even emots don't help anymore .

This is why I asked you about saying this in your words, in Rubicon's post is much Se/Ni-devaluing. It's that "what we mean", "what we show others" which is rejected by Alpha Irrationals especially, Marriage as a demonstration comes from both Fi and Se - it is taken as conscious commitment, attitude or both.

Last year (or the other) an ex-highschool SLE colleague got married, so we had a debate on this. I laughed at him because that year was for him the "marriage year" he used thematic avatars on IM, talked about it, etc. He asked me if I love my gf and I have serious thoughts about it and I said "yes". And he said so "why don't you get married?", "girlfriend" doesn't mean anything, but it's different to say "my wife" instead of "my girlfriend". For him, this means something, they're not a man and woman living together, but they're "man and wife" and people should know them like that. Do you get what I mean? It's symbolism involved in Se/Ni types, and that's what IMO was what Rubicon was rejecting, to show something to others, something you look for, premeditated which turns Ne/Si people off.

OK. That's what I meant in the last part which you didn't quote. I think she meant more the farce and ritual involved than marriage as such, but I may be wrong.

Also, you draw from your anecdote a simplification which may - and probably would - lead you to mistype people, if you go by it. It's the same as Gamma = capitalism or conservatism. It's a nice way to say that the particular idea is related to some information aspect, but it fails when applied to people who use given information elements. You'd be surprised how conservative some Alphas can be about marriage and such, as well as assigning appropriate labels. It's largely a matter of beliefs, not information metabolism - the latter may determine how you do it, rather.

[Rubicon]

For him, this means something, they're not a man and woman living together, but they're "man and wife" and people should know them like that. Do you get what I mean? It's symbolism involved in Se/Ni types, and that's what IMO was what Rubicon was rejecting, to show something to others, something you look for, premeditated which turns Ne/Si people off.

Yeah, that's exactly it. Commitment between two people, no matter how vague or well-defined, shouldn't be something that's the outside world's business imo.

From my perspective, there are only two reasons for getting married: religious and/or financial. I'm not sure about my beliefs at this point, but being a 'proper' Christian would require marriage, simply because it's err commanded. I have some serious issues with "right for right's sake", but it makes a certain amount of sense in terms of Someone out there possibly knowing better than I do what's good for me in the long run. :-p Well that's the only way I could accept it. My heart somewhat revolts against that concept though.

So apart from religion, marriage just becomes empty, paper-thin symbolism imo. The reasons for getting married would be merely tactical or for fitting-in-purposes - therefore a wedding would be a fake and gaudy affair to me.

Financial reasons could make sense at some point.. lol Idk.. but just give me the damn papers. Let's not pretend this is necessary for love!

I suppose even emots don't help anymore .

aww

[Beautiful sky]

Yeah, that's exactly it. Commitment between two people, no matter how vague or well-defined, shouldn't be something that's the outside world's business imo.

From my perspective, there are only two reasons for getting married: religious and/or financial. I'm not sure about my beliefs at this point, but being a 'proper' Christian would require marriage, simply because it's err commanded. I have some serious issues with "right for right's sake", but it makes a certain amount of sense in terms of Someone out there possibly knowing better than I do what's good for me in the long run. :-p Well that's the only way I could accept it. My heart somewhat revolts against that concept though.

So apart from religion, marriage just becomes empty, paper-thin symbolism imo. The reasons for getting married would be merely tactical - therefore the wedding becomes a fake and gaudy affair.
aww

LOVE

[Rubicon]

LOVE

I fail to see the connection really.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Logos]

LOVE

Can two people not be wholly in love without being married? People do not marry for love.

[Beautiful sky]

Can two people not be wholly in love without being married? People do not marry for love.

Sure two people can be in love without being married. But, I should hope that they marry for love and not obligation.

What do they marry for? Raising kids? You can do that too without being in love or being married.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

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[Crispy]

I don't believe in life-long love

You kiss your mother with that mouth?

[Aiss]

We return where we started from, this was my point, to make you note what's type-relate and in a quintessential manner. You must discern between education, beliefs, formal terms and type traits. Conservatism, for example, means different things for different people, eh yeah, that's the only thing that matters in typing. Using conventional categories doesn't help.

Conventional, maybe not, but opinion on marriage - which you point out as Si/Ne vs Se/Ni difference - varies. Which is why I say it's not type related; how you justify it may be - as in, Ti justification for the necessity of marriage will be different from Fi, and the same with arguments against it.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Crispy]

I was referring to life-long love for the one who birthed you, but I'm sure you meant something else.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Crispy]

Bahahaha. I fear I might turn so cold with age as well.

[Logos]

Sure two people can be in love without being married. But, I should hope that they marry for love and not obligation.

I never implied an obligation, merely that one cannot marry for love.

What do they marry for? Raising kids? You can do that too without being in love or being married.

Exactly. Love is not a prerequisite for marriage.