first you said estj
then you said istp
what is it then, and why?
I will remain as civil as possible.
first you said estj
then you said istp
what is it then, and why?
I will remain as civil as possible.
<Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is and not
ISTp
Fe PoLR.
I'm sorry Pirate, you and I have not been very kind to one another but I saw the Te right away, remember. I noticed it first, then I tought about it and then I noticed the Si but couldn't figure out what order it went into. But once you started to view me as an emotional threat you displayed this PoLR of hostility towards me. I noticed that you were ISTp rather then ESTj.
You don't have a lot of Se, altough you like to think you do. I am not as shy of you and your Se as I am with Se dominent. You can bug me, but you don't squander me....an expression. Your words and the way you say them to me, make me feel like being kinder to you, a way of EII to release emotionals of furious people and get them to calm down. You have never seen me through odd reactions at you as I do with other Se dominents who put a lot of pressure on my Se.
Last edited by Beautiful sky; 04-17-2010 at 09:57 PM.
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
It was all very early on, and I don't have access to those posts. Fe PoLR is here.
"SLIs see no reason to get worked up about things. They tend to condemn people who do not control their emotional displays and "fly off the handle." They believe that people should think first about the effect their words and emotions will have on other people rather than just spilling out negative or potentially hurtful feelings as they feel like it. If someone has chewed them out in an emotional way just once, they tend to hold this incident against the person for years. To them such behavior is unnecessarily demeaning and malicious. "
Somewhere he saw me as a threat and started to attack me. He felt uncomfortable with me or around me and just had to see the end of me, for some reason. Also Fe PoLR may be a way for him to have tested my loyalty or endurance?
http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=SLI
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
At the moment, I have no recollection of having perceived you as chewing me out in an emotional way. My qualms with you have always been about the theory itself, and of your attitude towards members here which I dislike for reasons stated in other threads.
Also, I dont agree with the description as a whole. Conveniently bolding a part you feel fits me is an easy way to bend perception, however I certainly do not condemn people for Fe reasons; in fact, the description that this person condemns sounds like my presence on this forum. I have frequently flown off the handle at other members here. Same goes with spilling out negativity or hurtful feelings.
Its called venting.
As far as considering words, I do believe this is true. You should certianly consider the effect of words; the problem with this description is that it does not capture the subtleties maritsa. I have told you this is an amateurs way of typing; to not consider the impact of such things is abit reckless and carless in my opinion. What this means to an SLI and an IEI are two very different things:
Its the difference between tailoring your delivery to fit your audience
(Fe Creative ---) thePirate)
and subduing your emotions and the emotional atmosphere
(Fe PoLR----) Not thePirate)
SLIs do it like this because they do not know how to deal with Fe. While they may think that people should consider the effects words and emotions have, they will subdue them because they are uncomfortable in dealing with them. They do not have a grasp of the intricacies to play with it, so they would rather factor if out of the equation.
Its not like this with me, I generally amplify the emotions around me. I understand emotional dynamics very well. Fe is not something I avoid, but actively partake in and enjoy. I am a pretty expressive person in general and dislike Fi type atmospheres as often times it seems boring and stifling to me.
I am not seeing where you are getting Te from, I am laughably weak in this function. Si is my role, so I suppose I can see how you would confuse that. Maybe. Fe as my PoLR though? thats just ridiculous
also your claim about Se, I have blatently said that I dont know how people such as pinnochio thought I was an sensing type. I do not and have not thought I was adept at it, during my time here I have not typed myself as anything other than an NF.
as far as you wanting to be kinder to me, well I dont know how to respond to that. however, all your responses typically do is infuriate me - it does the opposite of which you intend to mean it for so that should be another indicator of something off.
Last edited by thePirate; 04-17-2010 at 10:54 PM.
<Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is and not
The qualm is that you would rather I provide proof for a theory that I am currently studying. You are not satisfied with anything that is not "real", or thus yet proven so you don't already consider Ne (possibilities).
As for Ni, you don't talk about any of the things IEI would in as referenced by Socioniko or Wikisocion description of IEI. You have not been very kindly social or have you been very romantic.
Being emotional does not mean you are not Fe PoLR; I have written that many ISTp are very emotional; Fe would be what emotions you elicit from others. Being a goofball or a clown or mixing in a emotional atmosphere is not always associated with Fe dominant.
I often bold parts on wikisocion because I do not agree with everything and I suppose I do take an easy way out by finding a description that's close enough to what I want to say and then just lighting the parts I agree with that may apply to the individual.
You explain you lack of control for your temper to Fe? That's not Fe; Fe is purposeful display or use of words and images to elicit emotions of others. I felt this venting of yours is really Fe PoLR not Fe ego block. I also feel that you went A-Wall on me because you felt that my theory was useless, so that's another Si trait because the like or prefer things that are proven or trusted.
No, I had no time to respond to him a few hours ago.
Last edited by Beautiful sky; 04-18-2010 at 01:23 AM.
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Since you seem to consider wikisocion an acceptable source for a moment, I'll quote some especially for you.
If you still don't understand why your typing methods are flawed, then perhaps you should focus on reading with understanding rather than on misusing socionics.Type descriptions are very useful as illustrations of how the functional preferences are commonly manifested in external behavioral traits, but they can also be misleading if such behavioral traits have other origins in particular individuals. Above all, the "check-list" approach to type descriptions, as in marking which percentage of the traits described in descriptions can be observed in the person being typed, maximizes this problem and should be avoided.
Type descriptions should probably be best regarded as a didactic tool to learn socionics rather than tools for typing.
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
You're missing my point yet again, but that's not surprising seeing as reading with understanding is not your forte.
Read the fragment I quoted from wikisocion. Compare with your typing of others (excluding VI since that's another topic entirely). Draw conclusions.
Use of text decoration is discouraged.
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
It doesn't take Ti to realize you answered a question I never asked. You picked one irrelevant detail (namely my mentioning you're now accepting wikisocion) and decided to say something about it, pretending you never noticed the rest because it shows your typing method to be deeply flawed.
That's why your typing method is useless, Maritsa. You're attempting to assign traits (such as shyness) to types. This isn't how socionics work. That's also one of the reasons psychologists don't really like theories like socionics - because you can't easily label people based on their behaviour. You have to look beyond that, and that's what you're obviously incapable of doing.
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Its not just proof. I started asking for proof when you said you withheld some from us, the more ridiculous your claims(to me) have gotten. In the beginning I wanted to give you a chance but you never provided any logical reasoning. You only provided morphological reasoning which had no back up behind it and was IMO insufficient and a non factor in typing. I still do. If you dont remember, I kept perceiving your analysis as inconsistent and making no sense as the conclusions you were drawing baffled me. They were interesting, yes, but unexplainable and thus you did not satify my inquiry. When you began to take the attitude which I perceive you do now, thats when things hit the fan. It was a combination of these factors that did it.
What types of things have I not talked about? As far as being social and kindly and romantic, this is the internet! Who the heck am I going to be romantic to? You? Lol. I am decently social and way too kind for my own well-being outside of this wretched place. Granted, I can see why you would not perceive this.
As far as Fe goes, tailoring my delivery ELICITS those responses. What I was referencing were not emotions themselves, but a cause of what gets the emotional result I require.(omg did I just use Ni?? rhetorical question.) I dont know if you misunderstood this because of your trouble with english or not understanding how Fe works exactly, but this is it.
I know what Fe is, and my outbursts on here really arent anything. Im not fuming at home, hugging & puffing whenever you post something I think is stupid. Yes, I used the word infuriate. I dont mean that literally. You do irk me maritsa, very much so. But what you see here isnt me losing my temper. Its just the internet. This forums an outlet to me for venting, having abit of fun, and occasionally learning. Yes, this does factor in eliciting emotional responses. That said, you have to realize that Fe types CAN let go their emotions, there isnt always some eliciting of responses going on. I say this mainly about Fe creatives, Im not 100% on Fe dominants.
Creative function is on and off sugarcakes.
I didnt think your theory was useless in the beginning. I honestly did feel a little weird about it, and abit of anxiety at thinking that perhaps this new learning would expose some flaws in my learning. I do have something invested in my knowledge and the typings of those around me as silly as that may be. However, I did make a concious decision to give you a chance. When I did, I felt you were drawing conclusions that had no basis to them. You were inconsistent in some of the things you were saying.(ti valuing? omg rhetorical again.) When I questioned you about it, it only got worse. You didn't give anything satisfactory, it just led to more questions. You kept defaulting to morphology as the logical basis of your conclusions, which I had not taken as a reliable source yet. I dont think this has anything in particular to do with type:
Take someone who comes in saying the moon is made of cheese. They say can tell by the tilt at which the moon is in relation to the earth, would you believe them? If you saw the tilt, you wouldn't see a correlation right? There MAY be one, but you don't see it. The moon still looks like the moon and there is no clearevidence that the moon is made of cheese. Well, other than that persons word. Say, using the same method, this person said the earth was made of potatoes. Again, they said you can tell by the tilt. While you thought that this radical idea MAY be plausible(as crazy as it sounds) you still do not see it matching up. This person provides no studies, nothing but their word of having researched. Would you take it? Furthermore, questioning their logic only shows more faults, more inconsistencies, more misinterpretations. Then, they start forcing their opinions on others, telling other people that the moon is made of cheese, the earth of potatoes, and that other reasoning is wrong. Whether or not you perceive this as what your doing, I believe this is how it comes across to alot of people, me included. I dont know if my example did a good job of illustrating this, but I hope you got the point. What sane person would believe you or not see this as crazy?
I am actually open to perhaps there being some use in your theories, but I dont think that use will be shown by you, not now anyway, if there even is any to it.
I will admit that recently, you have posted some interesting things about functions, but in practice theres something that goes haywire and it is evident that you still do not fully grasp them. At least to my perception.
Btw, I dont want to turn this into a discussion about you or your methods. I was just illustrating this to get a better view of my mindset when interacting with you and how I see you. I do believe you misinterpret my motives, and that is something I consider important in typing; to get a good grasp of the persons true intentions.
Last edited by thePirate; 04-18-2010 at 10:24 PM.
<Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is and not
-
Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
My first and very big concern with your typing methods was that you were typing celebrities in roles. I type based on autobiographies of celebrities and morphology. I tried to tell you that roles or choice of roles is only partially a job, that the celebrities acting behavior was not associated with their type.
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Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Alright, so let's agree to forget about that point and move forward as I read more of your post.
That's true. But things have turned 360What types of things have I not talked about? As far as being social and kindly and romantic, this is the internet! Who the heck am I going to be romantic to? You? Lol. I am decently social and way too kind for my own well-being outside of this wretched place. Granted, I can see why you would not perceive this.
-
Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html