And how do you know your understanding of EII is right?Originally Posted by crazedratXII
Yes, Martisa is EII
No, Martisa is not EII
And how do you know your understanding of EII is right?
Stan is not my real name.
Because I am educated and I don't engage in flawed reasoning / mindless speculation the way you do. I'm also way more experienced, and I'm smarter than you.
Please don't argue, there's no point in doing it over my type. That's not healthy and it's unproductive.
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Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
The problem I have is with the way people are using socionics. The topic doesn't matter so much.
Enough with the pretension. If Maritsa33 is actually EII, she is most definitely not a "typical" one, as you yourself have implied.
Ceci n'est pas une eii.
I don't look typical on the internet, that's because I can speak form the inner voices, thoughts and emotions, but when you see me here, typing behind my desk, emotionless expression. Then you will begin to wonder how on words does a person seem like something they are not. This is quite typical of EII in written language and Art; did you wonder how Van Gogh was able to produce so many paintings?
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
I am not contesting your EII self-typing and, in fact, what you have just written here is something I see in myself. It seems that you are comfortable enough in the forum medium to express your inner being, while for me, I still feel too uncomfortable to do such a thing. So, your threshold is less than mine, and perhaps most EIIs but this does not mean you are not an EII.
I think you need to understand this, Martisa33, when you interact with other EIIs on the forum.
Ceci n'est pas une eii.
I can feel other EII's, so far by verbal interaction, a mechanism that enduces understanding or symbiosis is not occuring so I have to say that I don't feel that there is another EII on here. Redbaron is ENFj and I am comfortable talking to her.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
You would "feel" other EIIs if they actually fully expressed themselves, but most EIIs here are highly reserved.
Ceci n'est pas une eii.
Because they are mistyped SEI/ISFp; EII does not reserve when in direct conversation with people.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Do you feel like cursing at me?
Is this how you think you make friends and cultivate good relationships? By refusing to listen to people, by continually insisting that people listen to you even if they don't want to?
Ugh, this is too easy... There's so much more I could say here, but...I'll just say that I have seen little evidence on this forum of your self-claimed ability to cultivate good, deep, understanding relationships. The contrary, rather; you've managed to create a lot of unhappiness and division with a lot of people. It's sad, really.
No kidding - the perfect example of how Maritsa makes friends sitting right here.
Am I sensing... projection?
Ah, thanks.
I do think that culture and upbringing can make a big difference in how people understand and interact with the world. So I'm curious about identifying those non-socionic influences and reasons for behavior.
(Have I mentioned yet that I'd like to visit Italy someday?)
Actually, what I have trouble doing is agreeing with you.
If you want to see an example of me concluding, summarizing, tying in concepts, etc., take a look at what I said about Airborne in his VI thread.
...you totally misunderstood why I asked FDG that question. I asked because I am not familiar with the culture that he mentioned. I needed data from him before I could see any similarities or commonalities. It's like you're asking me to compare two oranges when I only have one orange. Or asking me, "Is the blue line straighter than the red line?" when all there is to see is the blue line. You can't make correlations between just one thing. Hence my question to FDG.
If you had perhaps asked me why I asked that question, or perhaps been less set on proving me as anything but INFj, you probably would not have made this mistake in interpretation.
Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.
Minde, people realize my value and contributions over time and come to me. Like a hub. I don't often extend out to make friends (that's the introverted nature in me). They come to me.
You are going to be fighting windmills now, because you no longer are INFj.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Indeed, EIIs are direct when in conversation with people but they don't necessarily reveal themselves when doing so.
Ceci n'est pas une eii.
Removed at User Request
Removed at User Request
Good. I would rather not have anyone type themselves or others based on my behaviour. Perhaps you should read the whole conservation before making such statements. I don't contest Martissa33's EII typing, mainly because I don't very much care for her type. What I am trying to do is make her understand the behaviour of EIIs unlike herself.
Ceci n'est pas une eii.
Well this is fair point. I remember when I joined - and I still do it now, ... I occasionally change or modify what i'm saying to fit a more American audience. Some of the humour/ways of expression particular to where i'm from is interpreted incorrectly, I suppose it would be even more different for Maritsa.
I just wish she'd listen more, meh no ones perfect.
Re thread: I still say Fi base definately fwiw.
Is English her first language? Not that i'm saying that can make her ESI, just that, well as long as what she says get's across.
I'm curious, do you think Maritsa is exhibiting same behaviour in regards to her typing of other EII's on the board?
Oh, i'm not saying yeah or nay to any opinion (the horses say neigh, but personally I don't believe a word of it), i'm just curious what you think, and also if you think she is right in any of her re-typings of other EII's here?
Actually, when I say her re-typings of other EII's here, perhaps there's only one (I though she was re-typing Lobo also, but maybe she isn't/wasn't). Well, on the one or any others you can think of.
This is an extremely important post.
Maybe I haven't read the whole thread, but who is saying the things that crazedrat is accusing a "bunch" of others doing?
I'd say it's Maritsa the post should be pointed towards, as in that's what she does (and what most other people have been trying to get her to stop doing, ironically).
Edit: In regards to you, all i've seen you say is things along the lines of "it's an obvious EII"...but, wouldn't it be great if you explained it?
Don't expect me to believe cause your Ni says it's true.
I tried to explain it somewhere here above ^
It has little to do with my Ni, rather with my experience with EII women.
Who Posted? - the16types.info Socionics Forums
Well, you've made 8 posts on this thread, shouldn't be too hard to work out which one.
Albeit when you click on above link post count it gives the actual posts when the posts are at maximum number of 7. I checked it then, all I could see was something about it being obvious but you can't explain it using functions. I didn't see actual explanation.
Well, if your explanation consists of your experience with EII's, then OK, it is an opinon, cool.It has little to do with my Ni, rather with my experience with EII women.
There's nothing to say that we should believe your experiences of EII women really are EII women, *if* that is all you have to go on. (whether it's right or not etc).
You need to learn to read. I am going to show you how:
First, let's understand what I said: She is a typical EII with atypical traits that have nothing to do with EII. The ways Maritsa is atypical is not related to type at all.
Now if I am a basketball player of average skill level who does nothing remarkable on the court, but I do something very bizarre in my offtime like collect flies, it is still right to call me a typical basketball player. That is just how words work.
Last edited by crazedrat; 04-10-2010 at 01:51 PM.
What frustrates me at the16types is when people say things like "She's EII and if you don't think so, you must be stupid." No.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
Removed at User Request
No, you are a poor thinker regardless of whether you realize she is EII. That's just something I can tell immediately from reading what you have to say, by seeing how you think and how you write. But just realize I made that judgment independently of your opinion about Maritsa. Look at Pinocchio. He doesn't think Maritsa is EII. Do I think he's stupid? No, not stupid.. a lunatic yes, but not stupid.
Let's say there is a correlation between depression and type. It would be a very weak correlation. These kinds of correlations, if they do exist, are too weak to use as an argument for a persons type.
When you try to use very weak correlations as evidence, what you have is a shitty piece of evidence. Right now this thread is full of shitty evidence. There is a fine line between coming off as an enlightened new age thinker and sounding like a crackpot, and I suggest you try to find it.
What's more: If a thing is only slightly related to type, then it is more related to something else other than type.
Last edited by crazedrat; 04-10-2010 at 01:44 PM.
The poll result matches my level of certainty about maritsa being INFj.
Anyone saying she is a clear, typical or certain INFj should be ostracized and shunned.
Big heavy words. Do you realize a person who uses exaggeration and heavy emphasis in their speech is significantly more likely to be wrong?
Removed at User Request
This is quite interesting, you are sounding like Jarno in a way. All you are doing is telling people she is an EII and if they don't see it they are dumb.
The closest i've seen you explain WHY she is an EII is using an analogy. Thing is, we're not playing basketball and your analogy explains zilch in terms of why she actually is any type.
Feel free to continue though, i'm sure you will, or maybe you will suprise me with offering some reasons, rather than trying to brainwash people into what you apparently simply believe.
Although, in fairness, Jarno's not insulting like you, but the similarity I should say is simply stating it's the case with no explanation.... which in any even might be down to you guys being same or similar type (at least dominant Ni).
However, not to say ILI's can't explain, cause well, surely they can, so maybe we'll see it.
Turkish EIIs:
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
lol i was joking
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Okay, sure. That works, if we assume your analogy indeed applies to Maritsa33. Let me reply with your basketball analogy to one of my own. I actually used to be a basketball player, but I was a good basketball player with an odd technique for shooting. Odd though it may be, I still produced positive results. That still makes me a good basketball player but I thought it was fair for people to doubt my abilities, at least initially, because I was unconventional in that dimension.
This is what I think is happening with Maritsa33, and, frankly, there is nothing wrong with that. Also, there is nothing particularly profound about your typing methods, so stop pretending it is.
Ceci n'est pas une eii.
How can I be ESI with this structure?
Do you not know the essence of Se and what it does? I have pointed out several times, my lack of ability to tell textures and everything else connected with Se
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Summary-
VixenDogFox: I don't think Maritsa is ESI.
Maritsa33: I'm not ESI, how can you think I'm one?
That was good. Haha!
Maritsa quoted your post and replied as if she thought you thought she was ESI. Nothing was spoken, written or otherwise directed at you.Why is that directed at me?Haha, I just wanted to point out to anyone who thought she was ESI that she doesn't seem ESI to me.
I hope not.
I read everything.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
you're the god of reading
Did you guys check out all the porn stars that Katie wants a VI of in the VI subforum?
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
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