explanation of my SLE typing

[Joy]

I also think that non-Socionics factors can change the way people think and act and their interests. Upbringing, environment, physical health, intelligence, and individual quirks all influence individuals. They will still process and react to these things through their own functional arrangement, but the result may be that they act dissimilarly from other people of their type.

[Joy]

Today in philosophy discussion group we were talking about behaviorism, physicalism, and functionalism, and I realized to how great an extent I try to control and manipulate my thought processes and mental states. I don't know if/how this is type related, but I've realized that I do this FAR more than most people do, regadless of their type. I think it's because I subscribe to James Allen's take on the mind being like a garden. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing, but I do think there should be a balance between molding your character, observing your mental states to learn what they're telling you about your circumstances, and just living.

That probably sounds very un-SLE... lol, whatever. It doesn't matter.

I do think this is another aspect of myself that makes typing me more difficult though.

[Kim]

Joy, I really think that your obsession with duality is not very productive. You will never be fully "dualized." There is no such thing. Duality in Socionics is an assessment of how two types interact based on function stacking, just like Benefit or Supervision. What I mean by that is I don't think the point of studying Socionics is to find one's dual (or at least it shouldn't be). I lived with my dual close to 6 years and there is no dualization process. You are two types who live together and harmonize in certain areas, but life is life and people are people. We had our problems and obviously the relationship ended at some point. I am now with an SEE and the things that were effortless with my dual require more work, but we make a much better team in other areas.

You seem extremely dependent on finding someone to complement you. I remember vividly when you described your interaction in your most recent relationship and how perfect it was because it seemed to fill in what was missing for you. The same is going on now with the IEI and I suspect that it might happen again with another type. You said you want to be on your own for a while and I think that is a great idea. I think there is still a lot of room of self-discovery in which you take a look at yourself, not yourself vis-a-vis your partner.

I respect your current typing and it might well be the right one (I really don't know), but I question the way you arrived at it. because I have to agree about the effects that IEIs have on people. They are not my dual, but they have made me feel like they are. I find them to be the most charming, engaging, and lovely people who can truly make someone feel special and appreciated.

[Rubicon]

When an Se-ego says, "just do it" or "so fix it" or "stop screwing around and get to work!" the force comes from the implied threat that they will use their force against you if you fail to do so (or more accurately, the guarantee for their command is the fact that they are forceful/powerful people). When an ESE says, "just do it" or "so fix it" or "stop screwing around," they're doing what some psychologist lady who's name I can't remember calls indexing. That is, they're very literally playing SLE. But there's no actual threat of force. They get you to do it by emotional pressure... it's more external to their actual emotional state at the moment. It's analogous to how mothers do it. A mother may be feeling wildly joyful, but she always knows how to turn on the "Angry (Black) Momma" face to get the child to do something when necessary. It's a very subtle difference, and I'm not describing it well, but it's there, I promise. I'm going to keep my eyes pealed for examples so that I can describe it better.

Yeah, good point. Though I've also had the same essential advice given to me by an ILI. :-p The context there was me going on about how I knew what I "should" do to fix a situation etc.. and he was like "Um.. so do it?" And that's the tone I get from Joy's posts. Like she's expecting the Se to come from the other person - like she's the advice-giver and they're the doers. To me, it's like her attitude is "uh.. if you didn't come to me for advice - if you already know what to do, what's your problem?" Well that's just my impression anyway. :-P I think that an Se type, like you said, would be more likely to get directly involved - help you do something or w/e. I think their focus would be more on action for action's sake rather helping you choose the best course of action (which is what Joy seems to be about). I remember this old thread actually, if you care to read through it, in which Joy's advice had a similar feel.

Sorry to be talking about you in the 3rd person, Joy.

[redbaron]

I respect your current typing and it might well be the right one (I really don't know), but I question the way you arrived at it. because I have to agree about the effects that IEIs have on people. They are not my dual, but they have made me feel like they are. I find them to be the most charming, engaging, and lovely people who can truly make someone feel special and appreciated.

awwww, that was sweet (even tho Maritsa now assures me I'm EIE. )

[thePirate]

I am an atypical representation of my type no matter what that type is.

Have you read Rick's article about awakening the ego? It's on socionics.us. If you haven't, I'd encouagre you to at least skim through it. I do believe that, assuming Socionics is valid, there are people who act primarily out of their ego block (the ones who have had their ego block rewarded) and people who focus more on their other blocks. The ones who don't act primarily out of their ego block are the ones who are more difficult to type. They're more internally conflicted and as a result probably less consistant in their behavior.

yeah I have actually, I personally think its a great article.

However the thing about that is, that wont skew a type. someone acting out of Se role is going to appear very different than someone with Se base. I think you have read expats hidden agenda thread; this is a good example to me.

[redbaron]

I also wanted to say that Joy is not ESE. I'm married to one and I know several others and I've also met Joy irl and she's is nothing but a logical type. The sensing vs. intuition is, to my mind, a bit more up for grabs. But logical is certain.

[glam]

I think that an Se type... their focus would be more on action for action's sake rather helping you choose the best course of action (which is what Joy seems to be about).

yeah, that sums up really well the impression i got too.

from reading this Joy i have to agree you're logical, but i think what you wrote about and ascribed to SeTi is actually Te.

this is from Stratievskaya's LIE description (which i'm sure you've read before) and it fits your self-description well imo.

Excellent leader and organizer. The LIE knows how to distribute work with respect to possibilities and abilities of each. Immediately he evaluates people according to his business, level of qualification and abilities. The work, which he undertakes, he carries out always with the enthusiasm, he is rapid and qualitative.

Bureaucratic red-tape the LIE sees as great evil - that what extremely irritates him, kills his business activity and depresses him. The need for living under the conditions, where his business qualities do not find application, where his labor does not obtain adequate payment - that oppresses the LIE. He tries not to stay under such conditions for long. The LIE is dynamic. Easily they adapt to new conditions, they stably transfer burdens and deprivations. (especially, if he knows that in the course of time this will be worthily profitable.)

Representatives of this type magnificently work in the extreme conditions [ --]. Specifically, in the extreme situation the LIE most brightly manifests his willpower qualities, endurance, composure, business keenness, and also the skill to accurately calculate his time, force and possibility (after being weakened, it can generally forget about the time).

Never the LIE gives up before the difficulties - he will mobilize all his energies in order to overcome them.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

People don't connect just on the level of the pure brain/mind. For example, a semi-dual that was fucking hot or a dual that had a shitty body and spoke a different language?

You can also of course be completely physical compatible with somebody but have no emotional or psychological compatibility at all.

But I don't agree that Joy is being unhealthy. I actually think she's.....figuring things out better and being more honest.

[Blaze]

Joy, I really think that your obsession with duality is not very productive. You will never be fully "dualized." There is no such thing. Duality in Socionics is an assessment of how two types interact based on function stacking, just like Benefit or Supervision. What I mean by that is I don't think the point of studying Socionics is to find one's dual (or at least it shouldn't be). I lived with my dual close to 6 years and there is no dualization process. You are two types who live together and harmonize in certain areas, but life is life and people are people. We had our problems and obviously the relationship ended at some point. I am now with an SEE and the things that were effortless with my dual require more work, but we make a much better team in other areas.

You seem extremely dependent on finding someone to complement you. I remember vividly when you described your interaction in your most recent relationship and how perfect it was because it seemed to fill in what was missing for you. The same is going on now with the IEI and I suspect that it might happen again with another type. You said you want to be on your own for a while and I think that is a great idea. I think there is still a lot of room of self-discovery in which you take a look at yourself, not yourself vis-a-vis your partner.

I respect your current typing and it might well be the right one (I really don't know), but I question the way you arrived at it. because I have to agree about the effects that IEIs have on people. They are not my dual, but they have made me feel like they are. I find them to be the most charming, engaging, and lovely people who can truly make someone feel special and appreciated.

truth.

my aunt is an IEI....she's everybody's favorite aunt, socionics be damned.

[redbaron]

I believe what we really need is a good deal of time on our own to do some serious soul searching before we can truly find ourselves & feel comfortable in our own skin.

[Joy]

I think this is really good & I agree. I believe that if we loose our sense of identity we'll naturally want to latch onto a relationship and find a partner in order to regain that sense of wholeness that we desperately search for... then we'll idealize things and try to mold them into the way we want them to be. Ideally, I believe what we really need is a good deal of time on our own to do some serious soul searching before we can truly find ourselves & feel comfortable in our own skin.

People don't connect just on the level of the pure brain/mind. For example, a semi-dual that was fucking hot or a dual that had a shitty body and spoke a different language?

You can also of course be completely physical compatible with somebody but have no emotional or psychological compatibility at all.

But I don't agree that Joy is being unhealthy. I actually think she's.....figuring things out better and being more honest.

Thank you. (: It makes me feel good that you recognized that.

yeah, that sums up really well the impression i got too.

from reading this Joy i have to agree you're logical, but i think what you wrote about and ascribed to SeTi is actually Te.

It's certainly possible, though I doubt it. Right now I think I'm most likely SLE > LSI > LIE. I think I have strong Se and Si, and while I'm comfortable with Te, I focus more on Ti.

this is from Stratievskaya's LIE description (which i'm sure you've read before) and it fits your self-description well imo.

I identify with some of it:

Excellent leader and organizer. The LIE knows how to distribute work with respect to possibilities and abilities of each. Immediately he evaluates people according to his business, level of qualification and abilities.

Yup. Would this not also be true of Beta ST's though?

The work, which he undertakes, he carries out always with the enthusiasm, he is rapid and qualitative.

I'm not sure I agree that all LIE's are always like this, first of all. One of my managers at work is LIE, and he gets pretty cranky sometimes. When he does, he still works quickly, but not with enthusiasm... lol. Secondly, I'm not as fast at work as LIE descriptions portray LIE's. I'm more focused on doing it right than on doing it fast. I'm extremely competent, even in areas that aren't "my job", but my movements aren't generally as rapid as those of the LIE. I don't know how this would compare to your typical SLE or LSI though.

Bureaucratic red-tape the LIE sees as great evil - that what extremely irritates him, kills his business activity and depresses him. The need for living under the conditions, where his business qualities do not find application, where his labor does not obtain adequate payment - that oppresses the LIE. He tries not to stay under such conditions for long. The LIE is dynamic. Easily they adapt to new conditions, they stably transfer burdens and deprivations. (especially, if he knows that in the course of time this will be worthily profitable.)

While I strongly believe in a laissez faire economic system, my approach to legal systems is one of "how to maneuver within it". I appreciate things like tax law, corporate law, and other such business laws because they provide the framework within which I can establish and operate business. If I lived in a communist society, however, I would indeed be extremely depressed. I'd probably either enter the black market or try to escape that society. Is that sentiment really exclusive to LIE's though?

Representatives of this type magnificently work in the extreme conditions [ --]. Specifically, in the extreme situation the LIE most brightly manifests his willpower qualities, endurance, composure, business keenness,

Sure. Would this not also be true of SLE's though? I've read SLE descriptions that say as much.

and also the skill to accurately calculate his time, force and possibility (after being weakened, it can generally forget about the time).

Not so much.

Never the LIE gives up before the difficulties - he will mobilize all his energies in order to overcome them.

I think this is also equally true of SLE's.

I also wanted to say that Joy is not ESE. I'm married to one and I know several others and I've also met Joy irl and she's is nothing but a logical type. The sensing vs. intuition is, to my mind, a bit more up for grabs. But logical is certain.

word

yeah I have actually, I personally think its a great article.

However the thing about that is, that wont skew a type. someone acting out of Se role is going to appear very different than someone with Se base. I think you have read expats hidden agenda thread; this is a good example to me.

Of course.

Joy, I really think that your obsession with duality is not very productive. You will never be fully "dualized." There is no such thing. Duality in Socionics is an assessment of how two types interact based on function stacking, just like Benefit or Supervision. What I mean by that is I don't think the point of studying Socionics is to find one's dual (or at least it shouldn't be).

That's not what I'm doing though. I've simply found that being around IEI's (I made specific reference to one particular IEI instead of the others I know for reasons I've already mentioned) brings out the best in me. It awakened me to realizing that I have strong and valued Se and Ti, but the reason for my self-typing is the Se and Ti, not the fact that interacting with IEI's makes me feel good.

You seem extremely dependent on finding someone to complement you. I remember vividly when you described your interaction in your most recent relationship and how perfect it was because it seemed to fill in what was missing for you. The same is going on now with the IEI and I suspect that it might happen again with another type.

Disagree. I do think I've had a focus on this in the past, but that's not what's going on here. My IEI friend and I are just friends... it's not a romantic relationship. And it's not at all about filling what's "missing" in me. (Though certainly my previous relationships have been.) On the contrary, it's awakened a realization in me that I am a lot stronger than I had previously believed myself to be and that I don't need others to take care of certain things for me. That wouldn't change even if my IEI friend and I stopped talking (or hanging out as much as we have been).

You said you want to be on your own for a while and I think that is a great idea. I think there is still a lot of room of self-discovery in which you take a look at yourself, not yourself vis-a-vis your partner.

Agree.

I respect your current typing and it might well be the right one (I really don't know), but I question the way you arrived at it. because I have to agree about the effects that IEIs have on people. They are not my dual, but they have made me feel like they are. I find them to be the most charming, engaging, and lovely people who can truly make someone feel special and appreciated.

It's not just about feeling appreciated though, and it's not at all about feeling special. Did they make you feel like you have strong Se and Ti? Did you wonder if you might actually be SLE?

Yeah, good point. Though I've also had the same essential advice given to me by an ILI. :-p The context there was me going on about how I knew what I "should" do to fix a situation etc.. and he was like "Um.. so do it?" And that's the tone I get from Joy's posts. Like she's expecting the Se to come from the other person - like she's the advice-giver and they're the doers. To me, it's like her attitude is "uh.. if you didn't come to me for advice - if you already know what to do, what's your problem?" Well that's just my impression anyway. :-P I think that an Se type, like you said, would be more likely to get directly involved - help you do something or w/e. I think their focus would be more on action for action's sake rather helping you choose the best course of action (which is what Joy seems to be about). I remember this old thread actually, if you care to read through it, in which Joy's advice had a similar feel.

In that topic I was pretty much just regurgitating stuff I'd read recently. I wasn't the happiest, healthiest, or most productive person at the time. And all you really CAN do online is offer input in text format. irl I'm much more hands on.

And I can hear the ILI "um... so fix it?" tone, and it's definitely not how I approach it, lol.

Sorry to be talking about you in the 3rd person, Joy.

lol it's fine

[Joy]

Having said all that...

Yesterday I was sort of wondering if I might actually be LSI... Maybe I'm more focused on Ti than an SLE would be? Who knows. I still think SLE makes the most sense overall. HOWEVER, I'm feeling much better in general now than I was when I wrote the stuff in this topic, and I'm not nearly as focused on Socionics as I was then (and hadn't been for a while prior to that). I'm back to just living and enjoying life more and not really interested in continuing to focus on Socionics. My type doesn't really matter all that much, and now that I've answered the responses in this topic (thank you all for your input, btw), I probably won't be continuing to post in it a whole lot.