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[Aiss]

You have the option to:
1. either use - it was published and worked for others, it would work for me - Te/Fi - like Phaedrus
2. or don't trust it and see for oneself if and what proves true - Ti/Fe - unlike Phaedrus

I kind of disagree with this being Te/Ti... sounds more like Ethical vs Logical, to be honest. Te-egos are skeptical, find a ton of other relevant information and choose what seems to work. Ethical types either want information that is reliable (what they consider reliable is individual matter), or conclusions that are logical/consistent. I can't imagine ever not questioning a new bit of information, myself, yet I'm much more likely to find as much as possible of it to sift through it than focus on consistency of the solution. I'm more often at fault for not accepting new information as easily as other people want me to (that's even mentioned as close-minded ILI bias in wikisocion, so it isn't just me).

When he was reading whatever psychology article on the web (like the early bird/night owl), if that was making sense for him, the fact that someone else wrote that before (especially a renown psychologist) was enough to think it's impossible to be otherwise. He was not trying to check them for contradictions but they were his confirmation by themselves.

Ti make logical mistakes too, those just have to be litterally pointed out to them. In several postings he compared jung's books to the socionics functions and he pointed them out clearly. He used words like "correct", "incorrect".

If you copy paste one of these postings of his we can look at it ourselves.

Jeez you don't get it, you take things too literally! Do you remember how he justified what's correct an incorrect? With "it is known", "it was discovered", "the studies show", and so on. It's irrelevant that he used those words as long as he referred to learned, global matters instead of pointing out the inconsistency through logical deduction per-case (or whatever analytical means).

I don't know the person you're talking about, but some of what you say here sounds like Maritsa. Might it be she clearly sees the same weak role Ti there that she uses?

I don't know where this idea of Te blindly trusting comes from, but I think it's seriously flawed. Although part of it might be Gamma being democratic, in that I would never consider how famous the author is (although I might take into account why is he famous). It could be a bit different for Delta, perhaps.

INTp do the socionics research on their own. They are very polite and have a very mild tone of writing and speaking....ever hear an INTp curse?

I agree with the first sentence. The second... not sure about how, why and if other ILIs are like that, but it somehow applies to me.

Yes I think you are right about LII. But I will not disregard Maritsa's opinion just yet. I wanted to try following Maritsa's reasoning to be fair, it went against the grain, and I do not fully comprehend the functions and observations she based her hypothesis on, so I will need to read of functions, and Socioniko's descriptions to make an accurate decision. (...) I will make a conclusion once I fully understand each function, relationships and can form a solid opinion of my own. Until then I will interact in other threads allowing my reasoning process to be more apparent to all of you.

What you say about "lack of foresight" indeed sounds like weak Ni. You sound rational to me, and so does your friend.

Don't think people here are just going by majority's voice and disregarding Maritsa's opinions arbitrarily. I try to understand descriptions from socioniko and follow her reasoning, but most of them are so vague they can be interpreted in many ways.

[Beautiful sky]

Yes I think you are right about LII. But I will not disregard Maritsa's opinion just yet. I wanted to try following Maritsa's reasoning to be fair, it went against the grain, and I do not fully comprehend the functions and observations she based her hypothesis on, so I will need to read of functions, and Socioniko's descriptions to make an accurate decision. I believe my lack of information makes me unable to disagree with anything just yet. Her opinion disagreed with the rest of you, I wanted to understand it, but as I said before, throwing SLI in the mix makes me even more confused. Contrary to popular belief, the majority is not always right. But in this case however I will go with it for now as it does make sense, especially concerning my relationship with my best friend, I can see it being dual, but not a supervision relationship like it would be if I were SLI. I will make a conclusion once I fully understand each function, relationships and can form a solid opinion of my own. Until then I will interact in other threads allowing my reasoning process to be more apparent to all of you. Thank you for your help.

You don't know your friends type for sure yet, so don't base it on the relationship dynamics; you have to focus on yourself, how you live your life and how you make the decisions you make.

The best way for you to type is to observe yourself like you are taking inventory of the account of your life.

Write down what you do from morning to evening, then what things you feel like you have to do as opposed to what things you feel are less important.

I am also throwing in ESTj, but at this point, I would consider N types as well.

I completely rule out INTj/LII for you. I am considering more on rational XXXx.

[Beautiful sky]

NO

"I don't know the person you're talking about, but some of what you say here sounds like Maritsa. Might it be she clearly sees the same weak role Ti there that she uses?"

[Beautiful sky]

Ah, Delta ST. That doesn't count.

OK, I see I... T... ... and that's a typing. INTj. Except, your best friend sounds ESFp, and I'm pretty sure you're duals... I was wrong about one of you, and I'm gonna guess it was your best friend (as I heard less about her than about you), so by my best guess you're an INTj with an ESFj best friend.

Sorry, I wasn't feeling well yesterday, but I will disect his writing for you today

[Aiss]

You don't know your friends type for sure yet, so don't base it on the relationship dynamics; you have to focus on yourself, how you live your life and how you make the decisions you make.

That's actually a very good point. Trying to type both people and a relationship at the same time, especially when you're the one involved, makes it exponentially more complicated. Relationships evolve, and it might be a self-fulfilling prophesy to an extent.

NO

Not sure what you meant by emphasizing the part of the first quote. Just that you disagree with what I do? That's what I do, really. I can usually notice flaws in logic, but I don't create elaborate logical constructs myself. It's tedious, like a mathematical proof.

As to weak Ti role - I don't know anything about Phaedrus, so it was a bit of an extrapolation, but your arguments with Ti-leading types do sound like that. You can't match them there, just like I'll never match my friend's Si - even though I'm loathe to admit it to her. Time after time they "outlogic" you, and you back out from an argument. Do you really think you're as good at it as Ti-egos?

ILI do not spend time doing this

I don't understand, seeing as there's nothing about ILIs doing anything in the quoted fragment. If you mean "ILIs don't do much of anything", then I can't argue with you... it's the official version, after all.

That's my Ne, sorry, my dual would help, when he or she come around to it. I am considering INTj for you.

And again, I fail to grasp the emphasis. What does my agreeing with reclaimpower on his opinion of his friend's type does to do with your Ne? If you think that part points toward strong Ni, or has nothing to do with Ni, can you explain it?

About vagueness - I meant that usually the definitions you quote/link (if you do) are rather vague. I don't think your (usually very specific) interpretation of them is superior, especially as you tend not to give any evidence for it.

Finally, it's beginning to sound interesting. I'll see if I can get upgraded to LSI in the future.

[Beautiful sky]

That's actually a very good point. Trying to type both people and a relationship at the same time, especially when you're the one involved, makes it exponentially more complicated. Relationships evolve, and it might be a self-fulfilling prophesy to an extent.



Not sure what you meant by emphasizing the part of the first quote. Just that you disagree with what I do? That's what I do, really. I can usually notice flaws in logic, but I don't create elaborate logical constructs myself. It's tedious, like a mathematical proof.

As to weak Ti role - I don't know anything about Phaedrus, so it was a bit of an extrapolation, but your arguments with Ti-leading types do sound like that. You can't match them there, just like I'll never match my friend's Si - even though I'm loathe to admit it to her. Time after time they "outlogic" you, and you back out from an argument. Do you really think you're as good at it as Ti-egos?



I don't understand, seeing as there's nothing about ILIs doing anything in the quoted fragment. If you mean "ILIs don't do much of anything", then I can't argue with you... it's the official version, after all.



And again, I fail to grasp the emphasis. What does my agreeing with reclaimpower on his opinion of his friend's type does to do with your Ne? If you think that part points toward strong Ni, or has nothing to do with Ni, can you explain it?

About vagueness - I meant that usually the definitions you quote/link (if you do) are rather vague. I don't think your (usually very specific) interpretation of them is superior, especially as you tend not to give any evidence for it.

Finally, it's beginning to sound interesting. I'll see if I can get upgraded to LSI in the future.

Upgrade to ESTj!!!

[Aiss]

Upgrade to ESTj!!!

Mmm. Must have ESTj's opinion on this one. Care to elaborate about our supposed duality, by the way?

On second thought, you don't need to. I feel like smiling. It must be duality.

[Beautiful sky]

Mmm. Must have ESTj's opinion on this one. Care to elaborate about our supposed duality, by the way?

On second thought, you don't need to. I feel like smiling. It must be duality.

Look at your writing and notice the word EVOLVE in it's context.

[Aiss]

Look at your writing and notice the word EVOLVE in it's context.

Evolve, as in my style? It does depending on context, yes. You wouldn't want to analyze my handwriting, either.

Evolve, as in our relationship? If you insist.

I do suppose you cannot be bothered to answer my earlier questions and requests for clarification?

[Beautiful sky]

Evolve, as in my style? It does depending on context, yes. You wouldn't want to analyze my handwriting, either.

Evolve, as in our relationship? If you insist.

I do suppose you cannot be bothered to answer my earlier questions and requests for clarification?

That question alone makes you ESTj...lol

I will address them in a few moments thanks.

[Beautiful sky]

I don't know the person you're talking about, but some of what you say here sounds like Maritsa. Might it be she clearly sees the same weak role Ti there that she uses?

NO to this part. I don't see the weak role as I use; I remain pretty objective from a typing viewpoint. I see that the person uses Ti because that's what I strive to use, but can not do it in that way or in the way that the person using it does.
Phaedrus has a very strong Ti; however, I have a weak Ti and you were right by matching me to that.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Aiss]

Neither do I, so I'm sorry but I don't know what you were talking about in the replies for me :|. I didn't say that Serious people trust blindly, in most of the cases it is a selection of what to trust.

Merry types have an emphasis in understanding based on their previous knowledge (so they tend to question many things), while Serious in learning, base on something that works (tending to use what's usable already).
If you're truly and ILI, I doubt you never told someone "let's not reinvent the wheel", or something similar.

That was exaggeration of the general idea I got from some of what you and other people (not only in this thread) wrote. As if Te wasn't about skepticism... it is for me, or at least I'm skeptical and I think it's Te. I'm rarely certain about anything, although I choose to act on some things. So claiming questioning for Ti only sounds wrong, although it's probably a different kind of questioning.

I'm not sure I agree with your choice of words, mostly. Then again I can't find something better.

I think I'm ILI. I do happen to say things like these, but so does my ILE-Ti friend and other people - either I get some typings here wrong or it isn't as type-specific. I think it may be just a sort of thing people who are familiar with the area say when someone doesn't realize that's what they're doing... I find most people won't attempt it knowingly unless it's to improve efficiency.

[Beautiful sky]

That was exaggeration of the general idea I got from some of what you and other people (not only in this thread) wrote. As if Te wasn't about skepticism... it is for me, or at least I'm skeptical and I think it's Te. I'm rarely certain about anything, although I choose to act on some things. So claiming questioning for Ti only sounds wrong, although it's probably a different kind of questioning.

I'm not sure I agree with your choice of words, mostly. Then again I can't find something better.

I think I'm ILI. I do happen to say things like these, but so does my ILE-Ti friend and other people - either I get some typings here wrong or it isn't as type-specific. I think it may be just a sort of thing people who are familiar with the area say when someone doesn't realize that's what they're doing... I find most people won't attempt it knowingly unless it's to improve efficiency.

Good you are Te

Do you like to have control over your environment?

[Brilliand]

Good you are Te

Do you like to have control over your environment?

Wait, because he said the word "efficiency"? He was talking about other people's intentions, not his own! (I'm not saying he isn't Te, but that your reasons for believing so are wrong.)

[Beautiful sky]

Wait, because he said the word "efficiency"? He was talking about other people's intentions, not his own! (I'm not saying he isn't Te, but that your reasons for believing so are wrong.)

Not just that, other things, a lot of other things.

[reclaimpower]

Maritsa, I agree with the point you made on not basing it on a relationship, as well as with what Aiss said on the evolution of relationships. And I suppose even a contradictory relationship could go smoothly based on the decisions made in how one reacts to another. With this perspective, your statements of SLI are less confusing but I am still unsure.

I am not sure if I am rational in retrospect however: 1. I am very disorganized and sloppy. 2. I am constantly changing my opinions (which you are probably observing) 3. I do not always finish sentences and am annoyed when people ask me to explain myself on this. 4. I like music that is inconsistent, with sudden bursts of emotions and then sudden silence, and entirely emotionally self-indulgent, usually emphasis on negative feelings, though I am also fond of industrial and death metal. 5. I procrastinate. 6. If I want to I can express sudden shifts of emotions, from rage to misery, to elation very quickly (though I prefer to appear cold, I only discovered this by theater classes and a challenge by a friend, I find it difficult to do this when I am pressured) 7. I contradict myself, even things I've written here in this thread probably are contradictions somewhere, and incoherent.

Rational traits: 1. Obsessive tendencies. 2. Uniform like clothes in color composition. However they are usually loose and flexible but do not fit well. 3. If I am ethical (unlikely but hey) I focus on what makes sense, I think this is a trait I see in INFjs and ISFjs, sometimes ESFjs and ENFjs, but I don't think I am one. 4. Hyperfocus on particular things, generally sentimentally driven, but I try not to let sentiment rule me, I make a point of it. 5. I prefer to complete things, but may not always succeed. 6. I aim for perfection. 7. I like, I really really like consitency, and actively point out contradictions.

Sensing: 1. I value real world applications and stimulations and am impressed by those who actively pursure them, especially adventurous spirits who are always willing to something new (partially why I am so drawn to my friend), though I am unmotivated to seek them out, I prefer people who initiate such projects. 2. I need physical stimulation as much as mental, such as exercise or I feel sick and unstable. 3. My physical wellness affects my mental and emotional and vice versa. 4. Too many metaphors sound pretentious and cheesy to me. 5. I feel that I need to have some tangible skill that I need to hone, or I feel undefined as a person. 6. I hate unambitious people even though I may considered among them. 7. I feel that I lack foresight, I at best can predict and fairly weigh possible consequences, but I have no idea what will happen for sure and have no Ni powers of prophecy that I seem to read about. 8. I consider predictive astrology baseless, fascinating, but empty and foolish to revolve your life around. 9. I hate considering too many possibilities without realism or application.

Intuition: 1. I daydream excessively when I am alone. I can't stop and be productive until someone is around me, motivating me, politely without trying to command or influence. 2. I often look for meaning behind everything, and enjoy going into insane rants related to conspiracy theories. But hate when they are taken too seriously. 3. I go into strange musings, and have an okay imagination as well as a healthy ability to understand obscure things (this is what my best friend says draws her to me, she likes my analysis on less obvious things, such as trying to explain why she feels one thing, or someone behaves a certain way) 4. I analyze intentions rather than actions, and always look for intention behind actions if I focus on action at all. 5. I do get very involved temporarily in fantasy and need, absolutely NEED someone who actively stimulates me in real world situations or motivates me to do physical things or I get lost in my mind and feel trapped and blind, like I can't can't see through my own physical eyes anymore. It sounds weird but whatever. 6. I love armchair psychology, I loved learning physics when I had the class, I love sci-fi as long as it makes sense. 7. I try meditation, contacting spirit guides, and long for a world where there would be a god, but at the same time I firmly believe there isn't, it doesn't make sense to me if there is one. 8. I feel envious of people in fiction for living in a more interesting world. 9. I idealize things sometimes. I may have even have idealized my friendship so Maritssa and Aiss were correct in that it may distort my typing. 10. The first movie I saw was Star Wars Return of the Jedi, at two, and demanded to watch it every single day until I was twelve. This is not an exagerration. 11. I absorb information in large quantities, but have a hard time remembering specifics. 12. I am confused all the time and feel removed from everything tangible unless in the presence of particular people: my best friend, my sister, my brother in law. They bring me back somehow. I don't know how, but I strongly appreciate them for it.

Logic: 1. I NEED things to make at least some sense, and think violent thoughts about those who give no reasons and expect me to take their word 2. I try to not let sentiment rule me. It has a place in life, but one should never lose themselves in it. 3. I hate senseless violence or outbursts that are intended to intimidate. 4. I am taking an introduction to logic course and am loving it. 5. I have gone through phases of rejecting relationships of all kind entirely. I went 4 years without having a single real conversation once and only felt a hole in retrospect once I started forming friendships and speaking to my family again. 6. People consider me cold unless they know me well, and I like it that way. 7. My friends consider me objective. To them this is high praise. 8. I hate being influenced. 9. If you seem to be too happy of a person that its fake, I will cut out your intestines while you sleep and strangle you with them. Who will be smiling then? 10. I have been called a buzz kill.

Ethics: 1. I let sentiment control me sometimes. 2. I have come to realize I need and can not live without someone to devote myself to. Not romantically. For now all my friends fill this void. I will not, ever, try for romance. I never have. It seems too superficial and ends too quickly. I do want someone to love, and the thought of holding and taking care of someone does appeal, but lovers hurt each other too readily, and the relationship always seems to end in violence. Friendships do not. Basically, I consider love on a romantic level unethical and cruel. 3. I am more motivated doing something for a friend or family member than myself. 4. I do not like when people bully others and will get in a fight for this. 5. I find it easy to change emotions. 6. I find like to analyze the emotional make up of people and sometimes give analysis to those who ask, they say its usually right, but they may be being generous. 7. I am very easily influenced by negative feelings if I let myself be. 8. I shine when someone is extremely depressed or miserable. I find it very easy to relate to them and ususally know how to soothe it. But it has to be in person.

As for decisions, I usually try doing what makes sense to me, but when for example my friend was on the streets I gave every penny I had until she was able to support herself. I also have spent many nights til sunlight trying to help another good friend deal with negative emotions. These seemed more feeling base, so I'm unsure. I cannot break my word when I promise something.

What I do from morning to evening is I eat sit on my ass reading forums....... I exercise, read, hang out with friends. What I feel is necessary to do is establish contact with those who are close to me and get physically stimulated though I need help. Do not twist that!

And I am making too long of a post so I will stop there.

[Beautiful sky]

Maritsa, I agree with the point you made on not basing it on a relationship, as well as with what Aiss said on the evolution of relationships. And I suppose even a contradictory relationship could go smoothly based on the decisions made in how one reacts to another. With this perspective, your statements of SLI are less confusing but I am still unsure.

I am not sure if I am rational in retrospect however: 1. I am very disorganized and sloppy. 2. I am constantly changing my opinions (which you are probably observing) 3. I do not always finish sentences and am annoyed when people ask me to explain myself on this. 4. I like music that is inconsistent, with sudden bursts of emotions and then sudden silence, and entirely emotionally self-indulgent, usually emphasis on negative feelings, though I am also fond of industrial and death metal. 5. I procrastinate. 6. If I want to I can express sudden shifts of emotions, from rage to misery, to elation very quickly (though I prefer to appear cold, I only discovered this by theater classes and a challenge by a friend, I find it difficult to do this when I am pressured) 7. I contradict myself, even things I've written here in this thread probably are contradictions somewhere, and incoherent.

Rational traits: 1. Obsessive tendencies. 2. Uniform like clothes in color composition. However they are usually loose and flexible but do not fit well. 3. If I am ethical (unlikely but hey) I focus on what makes sense, I think this is a trait I see in INFjs and ISFjs, sometimes ESFjs and ENFjs, but I don't think I am one. 4. Hyperfocus on particular things, generally sentimentally driven, but I try not to let sentiment rule me, I make a point of it. 5. I prefer to complete things, but may not always succeed. 6. I aim for perfection. 7. I like, I really really like consitency, and actively point out contradictions.

Sensing: 1. I value real world applications and stimulations and am impressed by those who actively pursure them, especially adventurous spirits who are always willing to something new (partially why I am so drawn to my friend), though I am unmotivated to seek them out, I prefer people who initiate such projects. 2. I need physical stimulation as much as mental, such as exercise or I feel sick and unstable. 3. My physical wellness affects my mental and emotional and vice versa. 4. Too many metaphors sound pretentious and cheesy to me. 5. I feel that I need to have some tangible skill that I need to hone, or I feel undefined as a person. 6. I hate unambitious people even though I may considered among them. 7. I feel that I lack foresight, I at best can predict and fairly weigh possible consequences, but I have no idea what will happen for sure and have no Ni powers of prophecy that I seem to read about. 8. I consider predictive astrology baseless, fascinating, but empty and foolish to revolve your life around. 9. I hate considering too many possibilities without realism or application.

Intuition: 1. I daydream excessively when I am alone. I can't stop and be productive until someone is around me, motivating me, politely without trying to command or influence. 2. I often look for meaning behind everything, and enjoy going into insane rants related to conspiracy theories. But hate when they are taken too seriously. 3. I go into strange musings, and have an okay imagination as well as a healthy ability to understand obscure things (this is what my best friend says draws her to me, she likes my analysis on less obvious things, such as trying to explain why she feels one thing, or someone behaves a certain way) 4. I analyze intentions rather than actions, and always look for intention behind actions if I focus on action at all. 5. I do get very involved temporarily in fantasy and need, absolutely NEED someone who actively stimulates me in real world situations or motivates me to do physical things or I get lost in my mind and feel trapped and blind, like I can't can't see through my own physical eyes anymore. It sounds weird but whatever. 6. I love armchair psychology, I loved learning physics when I had the class, I love sci-fi as long as it makes sense. 7. I try meditation, contacting spirit guides, and long for a world where there would be a god, but at the same time I firmly believe there isn't, it doesn't make sense to me if there is one. 8. I feel envious of people in fiction for living in a more interesting world. 9. I idealize things sometimes. I may have even have idealized my friendship so Maritssa and Aiss were correct in that it may distort my typing. 10. The first movie I saw was Star Wars Return of the Jedi, at two, and demanded to watch it every single day until I was twelve. This is not an exagerration. 11. I absorb information in large quantities, but have a hard time remembering specifics. 12. I am confused all the time and feel removed from everything tangible unless in the presence of particular people: my best friend, my sister, my brother in law. They bring me back somehow. I don't know how, but I strongly appreciate them for it.

Logic: 1. I NEED things to make at least some sense, and think violent thoughts about those who give no reasons and expect me to take their word 2. I try to not let sentiment rule me. It has a place in life, but one should never lose themselves in it. 3. I hate senseless violence or outbursts that are intended to intimidate. 4. I am taking an introduction to logic course and am loving it. 5. I have gone through phases of rejecting relationships of all kind entirely. I went 4 years without having a single real conversation once and only felt a hole in retrospect once I started forming friendships and speaking to my family again. 6. People consider me cold unless they know me well, and I like it that way. 7. My friends consider me objective. To them this is high praise. 8. I hate being influenced. 9. If you seem to be too happy of a person that its fake, I will cut out your intestines while you sleep and strangle you with them. Who will be smiling then? 10. I have been called a buzz kill.

Ethics: 1. I let sentiment control me sometimes. 2. I have come to realize I need and can not live without someone to devote myself to. Not romantically. For now all my friends fill this void. I will not, ever, try for romance. I never have. It seems too superficial and ends too quickly. I do want someone to love, and the thought of holding and taking care of someone does appeal, but lovers hurt each other too readily, and the relationship always seems to end in violence. Friendships do not. Basically, I consider love on a romantic level unethical and cruel. 3. I am more motivated doing something for a friend or family member than myself. 4. I do not like when people bully others and will get in a fight for this. 5. I find it easy to change emotions. 6. I find like to analyze the emotional make up of people and sometimes give analysis to those who ask, they say its usually right, but they may be being generous. 7. I am very easily influenced by negative feelings if I let myself be. 8. I shine when someone is extremely depressed or miserable. I find it very easy to relate to them and ususally know how to soothe it. But it has to be in person.

As for decisions, I usually try doing what makes sense to me, but when for example my friend was on the streets I gave every penny I had until she was able to support herself. I also have spent many nights til sunlight trying to help another good friend deal with negative emotions. These seemed more feeling base, so I'm unsure. I cannot break my word when I promise something.

What I do from morning to evening is I eat sit on my ass reading forums....... I exercise, read, hang out with friends. What I feel is necessary to do is establish contact with those who are close to me and get physically stimulated though I need help. Do not twist that!

And I am making too long of a post so I will stop there.

ISTp trying not to let sentiments rule you, sudden emotional outburst, is Fe polr
Your tastes in sertain things appeal to Si ...

"This kind of sensing is rather passive, it focuses on getting as more pleasant feelings as possible, on reduction of quantity of unnecessary motions, on the quality and functionality of work. People with this function as dominant do not like to argue (if they began – it means that something VERY serious happened). They are often efficient at work that requires attention to small details, monotonous chores etc. They like intellectuals, like new ideas, because these ideas make their life more diverse, but also ridicule intellectuals for their “impractical approach”. "

ISTp:

" very accurate manner of clothing, for the order that reigns in their apartments, at their workplaces, for their thrifty manner of life. However, they are internally mobilized, as if waiting for a war or an emergency situation, they tend to split the mankind into “our people” and the rest, they are much conservative in their views. And communicating with them at close distance, you will quickly understand that they do not tolerate objections, even though they look so calm and moderate."

" their calm logical emotionless manner of explaining their views, and for certain vital conservatism. However, the difference is, that they do not strive for being consistent and systematic in their thoughts – on the contrary, they strive for adaptation to ever-changing situation, and thus their sayings often look incomplete or vague. Often the facial expression of Craftsmen is skeptical, with a characteristic grin They prefer not to present their own concepts but rather to criticize our people for imperfect, contradictory concepts. These may be also called “anti-enthusiasts” – they like to warn other people against insufficiently considered, unreasoned spontaneous actions, and hate very much excessive emotions."

My personality is such that it will point out consistencies in what you say to the types that I have read because of my weak Ti in exactly explaining what I see, so please try to connect the dots yourself to the description I give you...I am almost 100% certain that I have typed you correctly.

[reclaimpower]

I am agreeing so far except, 1. I am not conservative in anything, aside from being introverted so reserved, I prefer strangeness actually. 2. I argue very readily, I just don't like someone being blatantly insulting, and won't be unless they prove to me they are stupid beyond a doubt. 3. I tried describing my clothes as uniform in being black, but often don't fit me, and are wrinkled. 4. I said I feel detached from my body and need other people to bring me back to it. 5. I get lost in daydreams, and need my best friend, sister, or brother in law in order for me to pay attention to the moment. My brother in law is SLE and my sister is ESI. I am absolutely certain they have Se in their ego. I do not like being commanded but I like the power thing Se deals with 6. ILI has Fe polr too, I think. If I am wrong please correct me. 7. ILI is attracted to Se when its tempered with Fi which I am. 8. I move without thought, and am physically awkward and lack coordination. 9. I read on socioniko that ILI's also are good at helping people with negative emotions.

But I may not be ILI because: 1. I am annoyed with cheesy, sloppy, metaphors. Although I do like it when people can pull it off 2. I only see possibilities, not a definite idea of the future, though I don't like wasting time on endless possiblities 3. I said ass??? Could the Te subtype make up for these inconsistencies? And explain why some people thought I was dominated by a logic function at first. In my actual real life talking I do focus a lot on effectiveness, usefulness... though some argue that one should stay away from typing based off of vocabullary, so I'm going to hell now.

SLI makes sense, so does ILI to me. With these things in mind, I am confident it is one or the other. Your reasoning was good in my opinion, I feel I just needed to communicate these contradictions just in case. I am 100% sure you are close, but I am not confident if I am intuitive or sensing. I go back and forth in valuing it to be honest. Perhaps I have not developed a distinct preference and am IXTp? I am leaning towards the idea that I am intuitive simply because I am physically awkward, and Si is not. I also can neglect my health, SLI would not.

Thank you very much for your help and patience. I do appreciate it.

[Aiss]

I am 100% sure you are close, but I am not confident if I am intuitive or sensing.

Fortunately with Maritsa's method you can be 100% sure about this - see this http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...tml#post631067 thread.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Slacker]

Oh please, please please don't replace real Socionics with Martisa's "method".

[Aiss]

Are serious about that? Maritsa said that I'm not an ILE, should I believe it?

Oh please, please please don't replace real Socionics with Martisa's "method".

I'm deadly serious. She says I'm her dual, after all. I'm also rational, although everything in my life seems to contradict it. And a Sensor, although she's never asked about my weight. I must look fat online.

[Beautiful sky]

I am agreeing so far except, 1. I am not conservative in anything, aside from being introverted so reserved, I prefer strangeness actually. 2. I argue very readily, I just don't like someone being blatantly insulting, and won't be unless they prove to me they are stupid beyond a doubt. 3. I tried describing my clothes as uniform in being black, but often don't fit me, and are wrinkled. 4. I said I feel detached from my body and need other people to bring me back to it. 5. I get lost in daydreams, and need my best friend, sister, or brother in law in order for me to pay attention to the moment. My brother in law is SLE and my sister is ESI. I am absolutely certain they have Se in their ego. I do not like being commanded but I like the power thing Se deals with 6. ILI has Fe polr too, I think. If I am wrong please correct me. 7. ILI is attracted to Se when its tempered with Fi which I am. 8. I move without thought, and am physically awkward and lack coordination. 9. I read on socioniko that ILI's also are good at helping people with negative emotions.

But I may not be ILI because: 1. I am annoyed with cheesy, sloppy, metaphors. Although I do like it when people can pull it off 2. I only see possibilities, not a definite idea of the future, though I don't like wasting time on endless possiblities 3. I said ass??? Could the Te subtype make up for these inconsistencies? And explain why some people thought I was dominated by a logic function at first. In my actual real life talking I do focus a lot on effectiveness, usefulness... though some argue that one should stay away from typing based off of vocabullary, so I'm going to hell now.

SLI makes sense, so does ILI to me. With these things in mind, I am confident it is one or the other. Your reasoning was good in my opinion, I feel I just needed to communicate these contradictions just in case. I am 100% sure you are close, but I am not confident if I am intuitive or sensing. I go back and forth in valuing it to be honest. Perhaps I have not developed a distinct preference and am IXTp? I am leaning towards the idea that I am intuitive simply because I am physically awkward, and Si is not. I also can neglect my health, SLI would not.

Thank you very much for your help and patience. I do appreciate it.

That is not type related. ILI never like to argue, they are mellow but very time oriented hence Ni. I have ruled out INTp because you are concerned about passion, while INTp is as well, they do it quietly-it's an unspoken self motivated thing for them; but, you seem to be passionate expressively.

If you were Te as in ESTj you would be very orderly, clean, neat, and organized with regards to your surrounding, and have control over these functions. You said you were not, so that gives me the idea that you need a dual who is happy with you not being so neat.

"In my actual real life talking I do focus a lot on effectiveness, usefulness... though some argue that one should stay away from typing based off of vocabullary, so I'm going to hell now."

This quote has to do with this
"They are often efficient at work that requires attention to small details, monotonous chores etc...but also ridicule intellectuals for their “impractical approach"."

ISTp like to see the practicality of undertaken project...that's part of Te

The difference between SLI and ILI as far as behavior and thinking is that

ILI-will be very upset if people don't care about TIME (Ni) and do things on time.
SLI-are not as concerned about time but much more so about how sensations effect them.
ILI-behaviorally, never curse, are very timid, in a crowd look distant and don't get involved in converstations until prompted to do so, are far less active then SLI.
ILI- are not very concerned about their physical sensations as SLI would be.

[Beautiful sky]

Oh please, please please don't replace real Socionics with Martisa's "method".

The problem is that I am among one of the few people to step off to a path that most are unwilling or uncomfortable in doing so and in this regard two situations will present themselves, people who will become comfortable with it or people who will shun it. That's just reality.

[reclaimpower]

I have come to the conclusion that I am simply untypable online.

This is my fault. I have come here with a prejudice, that I was logical based off of my monotone persona in public, and that people who do not know me well consider me cold or melancholly. Based off of that prejudice, I have continually upped the logic trying to be the way I should be. For example, part of me does reject love and consider it unethical, other parts consider it beautiful and the very esscence of life itself. Notice I started thinking this way when I was considering SLI and ILI, knowing full well from my experience with my friends who are ILI that Fe polr feels this way. I relate to them when they talk that way, but I also relate to my best friend who believes love is everything that gives life purpose, and could very easily make an argument based off of that idea. I preach that I do not want to be influenced, but from the first post, I have flip-flopped trusting each of your opinions and trying to meet what you say. I focus too much on one side of me, turning into that person and what I should be based off of that philosophy rather than seeing myself through my own eyes, I simply can't. Each time I have posted I have tried to relate to my friends, and our relationship. Each time I have posted I try to acknowledge, even become what you are suggesting. This rules out LII, Ti, otherwise I would know what I think clearly, and have based my posts off of my own thoughts instead of being influenced and falling into being the hypacrite that I am. I also would not feel confused all the time, but confident in my own rationale and knowledge, which I'm not. I have tried and simply CANNOT see myself as SLI because I am just not comfortable enough with my physical body, while Si is the embodiment of comfort. I try being healthy, that is what I mean by stimulating it. I have come to the conclusion that is not type related.

I have wasted all of your time by not being honest in describing myself because of trying to meet the standards of whatever personality I think I have at the time. I simply can't be honest in who I am because I see too many sides that I focus on too intently one at a time. This doesn't even show me as a type because it just means I do not yet fully know myself. I am young, 19, and see people on different socionics forums who are older, and have known socionics much longer, and still are uncertain who they are. Each person grows constantly. It takes a clear mind to see who they are objectively, and I have proven to myself in this forum I am incapable of this. I aim for being objective but clearly fall short. Thus, I cannot be typed here do to my own fault and will move on to other threads in this forum. It shouldn't matter so much to me what type I am, I have taken this all too seriously, and intend to simply enjoy discussing the mutual interest in socionics I share with all who are here. So I am sorry for wasting your time and if that leaves you feeling cheated, that was not my intention. I do however greatly appreciate your willingness to help and generous amount of patience.

[Beautiful sky]

I have come to the conclusion that I am simply untypable online.

This is my fault. I have come here with a prejudice, that I was logical based off of my monotone persona in public, and that people who do not know me well consider me cold or melancholly. Based off of that prejudice, I have continually upped the logic trying to be the way I should be. For example, part of me does reject love and consider it unethical, other parts consider it beautiful and the very esscence of life itself. Notice I started thinking this way when I was considering SLI and ILI, knowing full well from my experience with my friends who are ILI that Fe polr feels this way. I relate to them when they talk that way, but I also relate to my best friend who believes love is everything that gives life purpose, and could very easily make an argument based off of that idea. I preach that I do not want to be influenced, but from the first post, I have flip-flopped trusting each of your opinions and trying to meet what you say. I focus too much on one side of me, turning into that person and what I should be based off of that philosophy rather than seeing myself through my own eyes, I simply can't. Each time I have posted I have tried to relate to my friends, and our relationship. Each time I have posted I try to acknowledge, even become what you are suggesting. This rules out LII, Ti, otherwise I would know what I think clearly, and have based my posts off of my own thoughts instead of being influenced and falling into being the hypacrite that I am. I also would not feel confused all the time, but confident in my own rationale and knowledge, which I'm not. I have tried and simply CANNOT see myself as SLI because I am just not comfortable enough with my physical body, while Si is the embodiment of comfort. I try being healthy, that is what I mean by stimulating it. I have come to the conclusion that is not type related.

I have wasted all of your time by not being honest in describing myself because of trying to meet the standards of whatever personality I think I have at the time. I simply can't be honest in who I am because I see too many sides that I focus on too intently one at a time. This doesn't even show me as a type because it just means I do not yet fully know myself. I am young, 19, and see people on different socionics forums who are older, and have known socionics much longer, and still are uncertain who they are. Each person grows constantly. It takes a clear mind to see who they are objectively, and I have proven to myself in this forum I am incapable of this. I aim for being objective but clearly fall short. Thus, I cannot be typed here do to my own fault and will move on to other threads in this forum. It shouldn't matter so much to me what type I am, I have taken this all too seriously, and intend to simply enjoy discussing the mutual interest in socionics I share with all who are here. So I am sorry for wasting your time and if that leaves you feeling cheated, that was not my intention. I do however greatly appreciate your willingness to help and generous amount of patience.

Try the steps in this thread...

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...what-am-i.html

Please don't be too hard; you're very young, you will find your road and you are doing great so far. You have written many things about yourself that are YOU and from YOUR heart and your life, which makes it special and real.

[Aiss]

I have come to the conclusion that I am simply untypable online.

(...)

I have wasted all of your time by not being honest in describing myself because of trying to meet the standards of whatever personality I think I have at the time. I simply can't be honest in who I am because I see too many sides that I focus on too intently one at a time. This doesn't even show me as a type because it just means I do not yet fully know myself. I am young, 19, and see people on different socionics forums who are older, and have known socionics much longer, and still are uncertain who they are. Each person grows constantly. It takes a clear mind to see who they are objectively, and I have proven to myself in this forum I am incapable of this. I aim for being objective but clearly fall short. Thus, I cannot be typed here do to my own fault and will move on to other threads in this forum. It shouldn't matter so much to me what type I am, I have taken this all too seriously, and intend to simply enjoy discussing the mutual interest in socionics I share with all who are here. So I am sorry for wasting your time and if that leaves you feeling cheated, that was not my intention. I do however greatly appreciate your willingness to help and generous amount of patience.

People who waste time on this forum do this anyway. I still think you're Ti/Fe valuing.

Maritsa, while we're at it, I don't know when I'll be able to reply, as I don't have the time now and will be out of country for Easter. I'll try to do it tomorrow.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[reclaimpower]

Well... okay. I tried the first step sort of. I don't understand the second, it seems to be above me, so I apologize if that disappoints you. I used check marks for how strongly I sound like and relate to the function description, and X's that sound less like me, and what I least like. I tried to be without any preconceptions in this so if the results contradict with what I said in the previous posts, remember I had a type in mind while I was writing each time before.

First the X's:

I marked one X on , meaning I relate very little to it, but do hold great respect for those who sound like this. So I value it, but reading that description, it really isn't me.
I marked two X's on . To me this functions is "meh". It doesn't hold much interest at all really. I don't value it very much or hold much respect for it. But I do not have a problem with it either.
I marked three X's on . I strongly dislike people of this description. I don't trust or respect them. I avoid them really. There are exceptions, I will not ignore an ESTp or ESFp just because it's their leading function, but if someone seemed to be the embodiment of this function, I would not get along with them. I do not like feeling like I am expected to do something, I will not follow their leadership, and I do not relate to this description the slightest bit.

Second the Check Marks:
I check marked one time. I relate to this description and place exceptional value on it.
I check marked twice. I like this description. It is what I would like to be, but I feel that I am not proficient at elimination, and systemization. This doesn't seem to be like how my mind works after reading that description. I am sorry Aiss, I can see myself respecting it, even admiring it along with but I don't eliminate ideas or build systems very well. I only do it if I have to, so I cannot see myself as being this way.
I check marked three times. I am surprised by this, but that sounded most like me, with passions being strong inwardly, but smile only to be polite in public, and is what I meant as being called cold and heartless. Also what I meant about being ruled by sentiment, I do not want to be forced to show too much of what I feel, and do not like people seeing too much of what I feel through my actions. I do strongly value my relationships in my life, focusing on them more than anything else. I have a hard time not speaking about my best friend even, and I may at times go on and on about how amazing she is if you give me a chance. I only rejected relationships in the past, including romantic ones, by being hurt by them again and again. Not because I consider it pointless. I reconsidered at it saying I would avoid arguing except I realize that I have been tiptoeing around disagreeing outright in a strong way with anyone throughout this whole thread, and when I did disagree I tried being as respectful as possible. My best friend calls it walking on eggshells. And if I seems to be creating problems by disagreeing, I stop immediately. But one thing that doesn't fit: I want to be objective. I admire it in other people greatly and want to be considered that way myself. But I believe I form biases and prejudices very quickly and it keeps me from being able to be accurate in certain things, like describing myself. I want to make sense, and everything to, but what I say and do aren't consistent with this.

I value and like both and . I like people who are this way, but I know that I am most certainly not. I consider these neutral functions for me for this reason, so neither received a check or an x

So since I am trying to do this without a preconception of my own, what type would this indicate from an outside glance?

[Brilliand]

I see INTj and INFj as possible now; your choices of elements indicates INFj, though I'm still hesitant.

[Aiss]

I marked three X's on . I strongly dislike people of this description. I don't trust or respect them. I avoid them really. There are exceptions, I will not ignore an ESTp or ESFp just because it's their leading function, but if someone seemed to be the embodiment of this function, I would not get along with them. I do not like feeling like I am expected to do something, I will not follow their leadership, and I do not relate to this description the slightest bit.

This is consistent with the impression I had about Si-HA and Se-PoLR; it implies INxj type though, and you say you don't think you're rational. What you said about rationality/irrationality earlier suggested you're more rational than I'm, although it's really hard to say for an outsider which one it is. Yours looking for conclusion - including suggesting we may be disappointed at lack of one - sounds rational, too. (I never got to commenting on your earlier post before you wrote last one; usually I'm online I do something else so I don't always have the time to comment).

I check marked twice. I like this description. It is what I would like to be, but I feel that I am not proficient at elimination, and systemization. This doesn't seem to be like how my mind works after reading that description. I am sorry Aiss, I can see myself respecting it, even admiring it along with but I don't eliminate ideas or build systems very well. I only do it if I have to, so I cannot see myself as being this way.

Sorry for what? I don't need to know your type or to be right about it. I don't mind things being left open-ended. It seems you're the one suffering for it.

If you're Fi-base, you'd have Ti-role. Without getting into details, role is something we think/pretend/strive to be good at, but still need help with. I think confusing role with base might be one of the easier mistakes to made, considering that people tend to think they're good at both (while they usually know PoLR function is weak).

I check marked three times. I am surprised by this, but that sounded most like me, with passions being strong inwardly, but smile only to be polite in public, and is what I meant as being called cold and heartless. Also what I meant about being ruled by sentiment, I do not want to be forced to show too much of what I feel, and do not like people seeing too much of what I feel through my actions. I do strongly value my relationships in my life, focusing on them more than anything else. I have a hard time not speaking about my best friend even, and I may at times go on and on about how amazing she is if you give me a chance. I only rejected relationships in the past, including romantic ones, by being hurt by them again and again. Not because I consider it pointless. I reconsidered at it saying I would avoid arguing except I realize that I have been tiptoeing around disagreeing outright in a strong way with anyone throughout this whole thread, and when I did disagree I tried being as respectful as possible. My best friend calls it walking on eggshells. And if I seems to be creating problems by disagreeing, I stop immediately. But one thing that doesn't fit: I want to be objective. I admire it in other people greatly and want to be considered that way myself. But I believe I form biases and prejudices very quickly and it keeps me from being able to be accurate in certain things, like describing myself. I want to make sense, and everything to, but what I say and do aren't consistent with this.

This sounds very true. I can see you as either Ti or Te seeking, but not one of these as PoLR. You're upset by neither Te nor Ti (that's assuming I use Te, which I think I do; what I wrote is different from Brilliand's and Pinocchio's reasoning, but you seem to accept both styles).

I value and like both and . I like people who are this way, but I know that I am most certainly not. I consider these neutral functions for me for this reason, so neither received a check or an x

You've mentioned preoccupation with health and physical fitness a few times; it's like Si-HA, but HA is by definition motivation we tend to hide.

[reclaimpower]

Brilliand, may I ask why you say you are hesitant on believing INFj? My choice as Fi may have been what Aiss was saying about base and role, if I understand it correctly. I may be confusing one for the other, because I may be thinking I am good at Fi and want to fufill that role, but may actually be more proficient at Ti like you suggest, so you may be correct. My reasoning on Fi being stronger is that I have read EIIs tend to be interested in intellectual studies, however, lack confidence in their reasoning abilities, and objective conclusions. They need help from others to make an objective and detached conclusion, which is what you guys have been helping me with. This seems to be very true for me. When I am explaining something in person I often end the statement with "if that makes sense" or "I could be wrong". I also often ask others to tell me if they disagree and to tell me their thoughts incase I completely said something foolish or ignorant. I also struggled in Logos when I was taking college courses emphasising rhetoric. I also clearly form subjective opinions, and my thoughts can be easily clouded by bias based on the personal feelings I have in the moment. However, this may actually just show that I am still young and immature for the typical LII, and so I still am developing and proving myself to myself. These observations of myself are somewhat contrary to what I see in you however, where your arguments usually sound self-assured, clear, and to the point. You keep your posts concise, and without the unnecessary fluff of information I seem to be inclined to add in mine. This indicates you can distinguish what is relevant to say, where I cannot. You do not seem to doubt your thoughts or analysis very much if at all, and had a clear and rather accurate opinion from the beginning concerning my type, though I do not know you so I may be making inaccurate assumptions, this is merely what I have observed on the thread.

Aiss, when you put it that way, I can see myself as rational. I need to reach conclusions, and am unsatisfied until I have. I often say something like "I have concluded" or "I have reached the conclusion" as well. I am disorganized, but I read the wikisocion subtype descriptions, and for both INTj and INFj the Ne subtype is inclined to be this way, I think, if i remember correctly. Though I may not fully understand subtypes, and since I am unsure of my type, it may be better to wait til I am sure what my type is.

I am unsure which is my base, and which is my role. I strive for both. However, I also feel that when people do consider me knowledgable, objective or analytical, this is a pretense on my part. I analyze everything, but I am clear on nothing. I never feel certain on what I think and am always just a little bit confused, which motivates me to aim for clarity and objectivity that I seem to lack (Ti). Yet, I can also "pretend" feelings to maintain peace in moments of great fatigue, when all I can feel is resignation and apathy, while a friend or family member needs me to concern myself with their situation. This could be me faking Fi to help them.

I consider Ti beneficial in how its deductive, clear and concise, eliminating and ignoring the inconsistencies of my observations which Brilliand and Pinnochio seemed to be kindly doing for me. Te is also benificial and valuable, as you have proven in your most recent post, you took the time to explain to me how these functions work, which I was unclear on and greatly appreciate. So I appreciate each of your explainations, and different methods of reasoning, because both are necessary and very helpful. If I am offended by neither, and strive for and appreciate both, would this indicate Ti or Fi? Or indicate nothing?

I don't hide my preoccupation with health here because I wasn't sure if it would be important or not in typing me. I only mentioned it because I wasn't sure if it would be relevant or not. Normally I don't talk about it. So Si as a Hidden Agenda makes sense, even if it is a motivation that is typically not mentioned.

Thank you again for your help, and for explaining all that to me.

[Brilliand]

Brilliand, may I ask why you say you are hesitant on believing INFj?

Your explanation of why you chose felt like a rationalization to me, and so I worried that you were choosing that function because you were trying to second-guess yourself, and thus favored evidence that disagreed with your previous views.

It's probably best not to base your decision on how confident you are in reasoning in Socionics, since you're still pretty new to the field.

When I am explaining something in person I often end the statement with "if that makes sense" or "I could be wrong". I also often ask others to tell me if they disagree and to tell me their thoughts incase I completely said something foolish or ignorant.

ILEs and LIIs do this too. Once, when someone asked me a question (because they really wanted to know), I answered and then said, "Right?" She (I think it was a she, it was a while back) said "I don't know!" I apologized, checked my work twice, and then repeated my answer with more certainty. I think people of every type can be aware that they're capable of lapses, and want to make sure that those get corrected (at least for me, especially when I won't get a chance to fix it later).

I am unsure which is my base, and which is my role. I strive for both. However, I also feel that when people do consider me knowledgable, objective or analytical, this is a pretense on my part. I analyze everything, but I am clear on nothing. I never feel certain on what I think and am always just a little bit confused, which motivates me to aim for clarity and objectivity that I seem to lack (Ti). Yet, I can also "pretend" feelings to maintain peace in moments of great fatigue, when all I can feel is resignation and apathy, while a friend or family member needs me to concern myself with their situation. This could be me faking Fi to help them.

Try this: which way do you more enjoy thinking (or, prefer to think), whether you're successful or not?

If I am offended by neither, and strive for and appreciate both, would this indicate Ti or Fi? Or indicate nothing?

This indicates that neither is your PoLR, as Aiss mentioned. Beyond that, I'm not sure.

[reclaimpower]

Your explanation of why you chose felt like a rationalization to me, and so I worried that you were choosing that function because you were trying to second-guess yourself, and thus favored evidence that disagreed with your previous views.

In retrospect, you are right about this. This is exactly what I was doing. I didn't realize it at the time. I tend to do this and have been called on it before. Thank you for setting me straight.

ILEs and LIIs do this too. Once, when someone asked me a question (because they really wanted to know), I answered and then said, "Right?" She (I think it was a she, it was a while back) said "I don't know!" I apologized, checked my work twice, and then repeated my answer with more certainty. I think people of every type can be aware that they're capable of lapses, and want to make sure that those get corrected (at least for me, especially when I won't get a chance to fix it later).

I've done this. Your point is well received, it may even be a product of Ti, trying to be as accurate as possible, and to be understood as clearly as possible.

Try this: which way do you more enjoy thinking (or, prefer to think), whether you're successful or not?

I am not exactly sure... both seem extremely appealing to me, that is the problem. However, there is this. Part of me strongly wishes to be competent at relating to people, and being understanding and good natured. I really do long for close relationships, sometimes I think more than anything. However, I am not very good at it, and find that my tendency to overanalyze things often damage my relationships. I realize I actually tend to alienate myself from people when I don't understand something they are doing, and persist in asking for an explanation. I forget about feelings and end up pushing them so much that I have been called cruel and insensitive. This was not my intention, ever, but I end up saying brutal things in the process to get some kind of clear and definitely true response from them, instead of either what they think I want to hear, or being ignored. The need to understand and get to the truth over maintaining a harmonious relationship indicates Ti. This is my conclusion, and answer to that question. I would enjoy the product of Fi, deep and meaningful relationships. However, what I NEED to have, and unconsciously takes precedence in motivating me over anything else, is understanding something and acheiving clarity. I also have read that INFjs know how people feel about them. Never has been true for me. I need reassurance (sort of), but never ask for it. Sometimes this is the explanation I look for from people and what drives me to push them, until I can see for sure, yet I cannot bring myself to simply just ask. I have to prod it out of them instead

So my final conclusion is the most obvious one, and the one that most of you have been saying from the beginning. I apologize for making things overly complicated and appreciate the patience shown. Perhaps it was the process of elimination I needed to go through in order to trust the answer. I believe my type is LII. Thank you all who have helped me. I do appreciate it! Now I can tread throughout the rest of the forum with confidence.