Extraverted sensing Se PoLR of EIIs-INFjs

[Beautiful sky]

Yes it is rude but not as rude as you have been and am sure will continue to be!

YOU ARE RUDE BECAUSE YOU USED THE SIGN.

[sarahcoles]

YOU ARE RUDE BECAUSE YOU USED THE SIGN.

She just admitted it was rude... lol

[Beautiful sky]

She just admitted it was rude... lol

JUST ANOTHER PIECE OF EVIDENCE THAT SHE and you ass well are NOT INFJ.

She just doesn't seem to understand how kind we are.

[Minde]

I've come to a realization:

what Maritsa feels as Se directed at her, is not necessarily people actually using Se at her. It's Maritsa's Se-POLR feeling threatened by what she is told (generated from others' primary functions, be it Ne, Fe, Se, Ti, Te, what have you) and her being unable to substantiate herself.

I have had similar thoughts. Basically, most things that threaten her (particularly by people that she doesn't recognize as her dual or even activity partner) seems to be interpreted by her as Se.

I do think that some Se has been used against her, but not as much as she's claiming. Perhaps the first hint of it is enough to make her collapse upon herself, causing her to reject even that which isn't Se? And since ENFps' role is Se, it makes sense that it'd end up sprinkled in amongst their posts, particularly when they get frustrated.

[Beautiful sky]

INFj's first use restaint of all of our crude and barbaric and archaic emotions, we feel that we are far to evolved and advanced for such displays of outright rudeness towards people and that everyone should try to evolve this way.

[sarahcoles]

JUST ANOTHER PIECE OF EVIDENCE THAT SHE IS NOT INFJ.

She just doesn't seem to understand how kind we are.

You do not come across kind to us at all. The opposite in fact. It is proof, your lack of intuition, understanding, kind-heartedness and openness that proves you are not INFj. This perfect INFj you have imagined in your head is not real, they have flaws like everyone.

Your pushy, arrogance, all-mighty attitude are not of an INFj.

[Beautiful sky]

I have had similar thoughts. Basically, most things that threaten her (particularly by people that she doesn't recognize as her dual or even activity partner) seems to be interpreted by her as Se.

I do think that some Se has been used against her, but not as much as she's claiming. Perhaps the first hint of it is enough to make her collapse upon herself, causing her to reject even that which isn't Se? And since ENFps' role is Se, it makes sense that it'd end up sprinkled in amongst their posts, particularly when they get frustrated.

Yes that is very correct.

[Beautiful sky]

You do not come across kind to us at all. The opposite in fact. It is proof, your lack of intuition, understanding, kind-heartedness and openness that proves you are not INFj. This perfect INFj you have imagined in your head is not real, they have flaws like everyone.

Your pushy, arrogance, all-mighty attitude are not of an INFj.

Good observation, I am a perfectionist. Even a perfectionist of my self.

[sarahcoles]

INFj's first use restaint of all of our crude and barbaric and archaic emotions, we feel that we are far to evolved and advanced for such displays of outright rudeness towards people and that everyone should try to evolve this way.

You can feel/think/act however you like, doesnt make you a perfect blessed being. Did you know there is a hidden motive "to be perfect" this is what your displaying to me, that is not INFj.

[Beautiful sky]

I do not see you as being kind to me infact you are very hurtful and I have had a gutsful of you. Always putting me down, saying that I am ESFp when I am not. You are quite horrid in my opinion.
Just because I do not much care for you and your ways does not suddenly change my type and everything about me.
You cannot go around constantly telling me what I am.
You deserve lots of these :grr: not just one or two and because I use that sign for you does not change who I am - do you get that?

Boy, you really can't control your emotions....hum, I don't know how to help you there...TRY A COLD SHOWER.

[sarahcoles]

Boy, you really can't control your emotions....hum, I don't know how to help you there...TRY A COLD SHOWER.

reminder: INFj's have introverted feeling first. This is it displayed over the web rather than hiding itself.

TRY A COLD SHOWER.

And.. you call THAT controlling your emotions. i think not.

[Beautiful sky]

reminder: INFj's have introverted feeling first. This is it displayed over the web rather than hiding itself.



And.. you call THAT controlling your emotions. i think not.

I am not rude like your mom, but that's okay, people's true colors come out after a while.

[sarahcoles]

I am not rude like your mom, but that's okay, people's true colors come out after a while.

My mum is the least rude person i have met in my whole life, but your right up there with the worst of them im affraid. im sorry you live in a different world to us it seems. our thoughts and differences are to vast.

JUST ANOTHER PIECE OF EVIDENCE THAT SHE and you ass well are NOT INFJ.

I have never claimed to be INFj. I am not as kind, patient or loving as Suzzy.

[Suz]

Maritsa projects a lot too, I've noticed.

[sarahcoles]

Maritsa projects a lot too, I've noticed.

very true, also did you know INFj's try to avoid conflict. 10 points to suzzy, 0 to maritsa

[Marie84]

"communicate well" doesn't mean "get along".

I also completely disagree with what he said about Ne meaning demanding like a baby.

He seems to feel like he has great understanding of her or something. It's an impression and maybe I was wrong about that. I'm not that emotionally invested in it and don't want to argue about it.

I think the part about how he interpreted Ne came from one of the Gulenko erotic roles articles, though it seems that he misunderstood what Gulenko meant.
The neediness Gulenko is referring to is related to a need, of the Ne, to have their Si needs considered and taken care of, which has nothing to do with what he thinks Si is

The demanding nature I see in Maritsa is more along the lines of wanting someone to enforce logical consistency. JuJu (self typed EIE) even talked about how he has a need for this type of systematic consistency too

[silverchris9]

Seriously, guys, she's INFj. Yes, she's the same type as you and you don't like her. Shock and awe. I probably wouldn't have been besties with Kurt Cobain. There's even an IEI that I go to school with that I think is kind of a douche/annoying. Whatever. Get over it. Actually, this is kinda turned into a bit of a delta aristocratic bitch-fest against Maritsa, like she's being kicked out of the club for not playing nice-nice in the preferred ways. Like, seriously, the argument consists of: "I'm kicking you out of the club; you're not nice!" "No, you're not nice!" "Nuh-uh, you're not nice!" Another reason I'm not delta. *sigh*. We betas kick people out of the club 'cause they're stupid, not 'cause they're not nice.

Boy, you really can't control your emotions....hum, I don't know how to help you there...TRY A COLD SHOWER.

hahahahahahaha. I take it back. Please be a beta. That was funny.

[sarahcoles]

Actually, this is kinda turned into a bit of a delta aristocratic bitch-fest against Maritsa, like she's being kicked out of the club for not playing nice-nice in the preferred ways. Like, seriously, the argument consists of: "I'm kicking you out of the club; you're not nice!" "No, you're not nice!" "Nuh-uh, you're not nice!" Another reason I'm not delta. *sigh*. We betas kick people out of the club 'cause they're stupid, not 'cause they're not nice.

Hehehe that's funny considering im probably an IEI beta

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Seriously, guys, she's INFj. Yes, she's the same type as you and you don't like her. Shock and awe. I probably wouldn't have been besties with Kurt Cobain. There's even an IEI that I go to school with that I think is kind of a douche/annoying. Whatever. Get over it. Actually, this is kinda turned into a bit of a delta aristocratic bitch-fest against Maritsa, like she's being kicked out of the club for not playing nice-nice in the preferred ways. Like, seriously, the argument consists of: "I'm kicking you out of the club; you're not nice!" "No, you're not nice!" "Nuh-uh, you're not nice!" Another reason I'm not delta. *sigh*. We betas kick people out of the club 'cause they're stupid, not 'cause they're not nice.

I don't not like her, I just think she's found a niche to be fanatical about, and socionics is pretty good for that.

I personally think she's ISFj for reasons i've stated...maybe it was on this thread. That she's a bit scatty doesn't necessarily = Ne, but I could be wrong. I agree Fi base for sure.

hahahahahahaha. I take it back. Please be a beta. That was funny.

Amusingly perhaps, she seems to accuse people of things she does herself all the time. It's sort of cute, but could be dead tiring irl if she didn't listen like she don't here, not that I am anything perfect myself, lol.

[silverchris9]

Hehehe that's funny considering im probably an IEI beta

Wait, you are...? Well, then, you're going to have to start critizing Maritsa for her illogical conclusions, rather than for not being nice. We don't care whether or not people are nice in beta. We can't; we have to hang out with Beta STs. Kidding.

I personally think she's ISFj for reasons i've stated...maybe it was on this thread. That she's a bit scatty doesn't necessarily = Ne, but I could be wrong. I agree Fi base for sure.

Okay, sorry, that is a good point. She could very well be ISFj, actually. I don't have an opinion either way. But people claiming she's beta... honestly, I just find that ridiculous.

[sarahcoles]

I personally think she's ISFj for reasons i've stated...maybe it was on this thread. That she's a bit scatty doesn't necessarily = Ne, but I could be wrong. I agree Fi base for sure.

Okay, sorry, that is a good point. She could very well be ISFj, actually. I don't have an opinion either way. But people claiming she's beta... honestly, I just find that ridiculous.

I have been thinking today that she is ISFj, cause she cares way to much about integrity and all that jazz, which is souly ISFj and other reasons, but im to tired to state them and make a proper sentence out of it

Wait, you are...? Well, then, you're going to have to start critizing Maritsa for her illogical conclusions, rather than for not being nice. We don't care whether or not people are nice in beta. We can't; we have to hang out with Beta STs. Kidding.

Well it's either IEI or IEE (and if not EIE), mmm either 3 options are a possibility. But i'm leaning towards IEI (usually do)

I know im Enneagram 4w5, extra intuition (of which kind ???)- sexual subtype yada yada ya

Oh, and i thought i was pretty intuitive with my view point, they weren't mainly on "your a meanie poo" "No you are"... they were (i think) rather good reasoning and logic

[Slacker]

INFj's first use restaint of all of our crude and barbaric and archaic emotions, we feel that we are far to evolved and advanced for such displays of outright rudeness towards people and that everyone should try to evolve this way.

It seems like I've read (from Rick?) that in the Russian-speaking Socionics community, EII is viewed this way, as some kind of more evolved person, and that a lot of people mistype as EII because they want to see themselves in that way.

[Suz]

Wait, you are...? Well, then, you're going to have to start critizing Maritsa for her illogical conclusions, rather than for not being nice. We don't care whether or not people are nice in beta. We can't; we have to hang out with Beta STs. Kidding.



Okay, sorry, that is a good point. She could very well be ISFj, actually. I don't have an opinion either way. But people claiming she's beta... honestly, I just find that ridiculous.

I actually agree with ESI for her, after reading cyclops' reasoning for it and silverchris' reasoning as to why she can't be IEI. And that would also fit with her having many SEE friends as she frequently stated before, and constantly seeing SEE in people. (I know a bunch of SEEs from work and though I'm on good terms with them, they are not usually people I feel too close with in a friendship sense, to contrast).

[Beautiful sky]

It seems like I've read (from Rick?) that in the Russian-speaking Socionics community, EII is viewed this way, as some kind of more evolved person, and that a lot of people mistype as EII because they want to see themselves in that way.

yes, that's true
After being mistyped by Rick; I went online and searched for russian sources of Socionics and came accrosss a university professor who did VI; I sent her my pictures without any words about myself; she came back with INFj and then sent my pictures to Rod Novichkov and he typed the same, then sent another set to another Russian source, this person's name was Olga, and she came back with the same typing; ever since, I have established a little rule for myself, that if I am not 100% sure about a type, I won't type, I will offer my opinion and send the pictures to my sources who come back with their typing. If all three sources match, sometimes four, then we know the person's type to be relatively accurate, if not, then we go to questionings.

[Beautiful sky]

I have had similar thoughts. Basically, most things that threaten her (particularly by people that she doesn't recognize as her dual or even activity partner) seems to be interpreted by her as Se.

I do think that some Se has been used against her, but not as much as she's claiming. Perhaps the first hint of it is enough to make her collapse upon herself, causing her to reject even that which isn't Se? And since ENFps' role is Se, it makes sense that it'd end up sprinkled in amongst their posts, particularly when they get frustrated.

Have you typed yourself yet? I feel that you might be more ENFp.

[UDP]

Have you typed yourself yet? I feel that you might be more ENFp.

Her type is clearly in her signature.
Why do you become oblivious at times?

Minde is EII- 9w1
She is not an irrational type, most assuredly.

[Beautiful sky]

Her type is clearly in her signature.
Why do you become oblivious at times?

Minde is EII- 9w1
She is not an irrational type, most assuredly.

I see that, but her reactions don't make any sense to me, especially for being a rational type. If you read 9w1 in enneagram, that description only references to an avoidant personality; INFj's don't do that, it seems like something closer to ISFp or INFp maybe

I am very sure she may actually be INFp

What makes you think she's INFj, because she is avoidant, there's nothing or no where in socionics that says that INFj's are avoidant, but a lot about INFp's being that way.

[Suz]

yes, that's true
After being mistyped by Rick; I went online and searched for russian sources of Socionics and came accrosss a university professor who did VI; I sent her my pictures without any words about myself; she came back with INFj and then sent my pictures to Rod Novichkov and he typed the same, then sent another set to another Russian source, this person's name was Olga, and she came back with the same typing; ever since, I have established a little rule for myself, that if I am not 100% sure about a type, I won't type, I will offer my opinion and send the pictures to my sources who come back with their typing. If all three sources match, sometimes four, then we know the person's type to be relatively accurate, if not, then we go to questionings.

VI is not everything.

[Beautiful sky]

Her type is clearly in her signature.
Why do you become oblivious at times?

Minde is EII- 9w1
She is not an irrational type, most assuredly.

And, how does she use Ne, she hasn't really shown any examples, I would have recognized it and once, I believe, she felt bad and was reaching for emotional comfort, I as an INFj wouldn't really request for that. You can usually tell by my external mood that I am "down", but, since your are not physically here to see me cry, then you won't know over the net; I will not likely write to solicity for emotional comfort, I like physical comfort.

[Suz]

And, how does she use Ne, she hasn't really shown any examples, I would have recognized it and once, I believe, she felt bad and was reaching for emotional comfort, I as an INFj wouldn't really request for that. You can usually tell by my external mood that I am "down", but, since your are not physically here to see me cry, then you won't know over the net; I will not likely write to solicity for emotional comfort, I like physical comfort.

why dont you explain how do YOU use Ne? I have yet to see it from you.

[Beautiful sky]

why dont you explain how do YOU use Ne? I have yet to see it from you.

I will no longer address you.

[Suz]

I will no longer address you.

I guess i have you stumped.

[Beautiful sky]

Her type is clearly in her signature.
Why do you become oblivious at times?

Minde is EII- 9w1
She is not an irrational type, most assuredly.

ENFp
I ruled INFp out, for her, my concern is her concern with Se

"I have had similar thoughts. Basically, most things that threaten her[maritsa] (particularly by people that she doesn't recognize as her dual or even activity partner) seems to be interpreted by her as Se.

This is Ne...
I do think that some Se has been used against her, but not as much as she's claiming. Perhaps the first hint of it is enough to make her collapse upon herself,

This is trying to make sense with logic..weak Te or Ti here...
causing her to reject even that which isn't Se?

This is what makes me consider ENFp for her...
And since ENFps' role is Se, it makes sense that it'd end up sprinkled in amongst their posts, particularly when they get frustrated."

[UDP]

I see that, but her reactions don't make any sense to me, especially for being a rational type. If you read 9w1 in enneagram, that description only references to an avoidant personality; INFj's don't do that, it seems like something closer to ISFp or INFp maybe

I am very sure she may actually be INFp

What makes you think she's INFj, because she is avoidant, there's nothing or no where in socionics that says that INFj's are avoidant, but a lot about INFp's being that way.

And, how does she use Ne, she hasn't really shown any examples, I would have recognized it and once, I believe, she felt bad and was reaching for emotional comfort, I as an INFj wouldn't really request for that. You can usually tell by my external mood that I am "down", but, since your are not physically here to see me cry, then you won't know over the net; I will not likely write to solicity for emotional comfort, I like physical comfort.

I know some things you don't know.

[Beautiful sky]

I know some things you don't know.

OH OH OOOOHHHHH are you telling me...hummmm
But, well...

[Minde]

Not that it really matters at this point, in terms of keeping this thread "clean" (once again, sorry, Sasha!), but here's a typing thread I made for myself eons ago.


Also, for anyone who is unaware and might find this feature useful, you can quote a post from one thread into another by clicking the "Multi-quote" button (which looks like this ) and then just going over to the other/new thread and hitting "Post Reply", which will automatically paste the post you wanted quoted into that other thread. You can actually do that to several posts at once, pasting them into one reply. Another, slightly slower way, is to quote a post and then just copy/paste the quoted post text into the reply to the other thread. That can be useful if you see someone say something that is relevant to their type but want to keep things clean and organized by keeping most conversation regarding a person's type in their typing thread.

EDIT: I was mistaken. You can only use the multi-quote in the same thread, but if you post a reply you can still copy/paste the multiple quotes to the new thread. It isn't really that big a deal, I guess, but I want to be accurate.

[Shagbag The Wizard]

Well I guess I've missed most of the action here, but in response to the OP I'll just add my $0.02.........


Yeah, I do tend to be a bit clumsy and oblivious to physical reality sometimes (excellent when working on creative stuff, not so cool when driving in heavy traffic, for example.)

I am notorious for walking into things, banging my head, stubbing my toe, whacking my elbow on doorframes etc.

The first thing I've noticed is that while Se-DS types respond very well to clear-cut and straightfoward commands. I constantly ask, "what should I do?" or "what should I pick" and Se-egos are often there with a definitive answer. An EII, in the same situation, does not really want a definitive answer so much as help determining what it is they want to do.

Interesting.

I simply cannot tolerate anyone telling me what to do, unless I have specifically asked for their advice, or unless I consider them to be a trusted expert. Usually I have little regard for self-appointed "authorities", and must do everything my own way or not at all, and I can be pretty darn stubborn about it, usually in a kind of passive-aggressive way.

However, if I have no choice in the matter (for eg. my boss bluntly ordering me to do something whether I like it or not) I will usually do it for the sake of temporarily keeping the peace, but underneath my controlled exterior I'll be boiling with resentment, and probably fantasizing about walking out of the job.


So anyway, take from that what you will.



*We now return you to your normal programming of Maritsa-bashing... *

[thePirate]

Boy, you really can't control your emotions....hum, I don't know how to help you there...TRY A COLD SHOWER.

the more you preach the more attention is brought on to your many faults, hypocrisy, deceitfulness, arrogance, stupidity, meanness. all of which you exemplify in spades

[Enters Laughing]

Let's see Se-polr also allows me to recognize force of individuals and I step aside or remove myself from a physical situations.

Personally speaking, I'm rather oblivious at recognising the "force" of individuals, their power plays and so on. I'm far more likely to notice when an atmosphere is uneasy, by the subtleties of a person's demeanour perhaps: it is not so much that I look to see if everything is satisfactory, but more that I notice when something is "not quite right", not quite as it has been in the past. If a person is loud and disruptive, then I certainly tend to pick up on that: but if someone is merely trying to make a "presence", that is typically completely ignored by me.

I can't be completley without the favor of this function; using my Ne I can make a painting with multiple textures. I have a painting in my mind now of black checkers with course grey street, on it is one bright red car, a 50's kind of vehicle with black wheels and chrome bumber; the tree on the right of the painting is multi textured as well; even though the painting's textures do not go with each other, the painting is creative and a piece of art so no one really minds how it is expressed.

I believe this is too limited of a description to be considered . It could be , , , etc. or a slight variation of something you have seen.

Se polr manifests itself in many different ways, yes, we are oblivious to people being romantically interested in us because when we enter into a room, our eyes don't wonder around and catch people who are attractive or are attracted to us; our eyes don't see people and their romantic interest unless they tell us directly that they would like to take us out to lunch, and then we get the clue that they like us; but, otherwise, we focus on the good and bad intentions of others and we look at relationships between people. We look at feelings of other people, to sense their internal temperature.

I agree with this somewhat, although less certain about the "directly" description. (it may vary from individual to individual). Usually, if someone spends time with me, and I spend time with them, I taken it as a given that we like each other. It would not really occur to me that it was otherwise, unless I had strong reasons to think the activity was an obligation. In terms of romantic interest, I personally would find it even more difficult to "know": it would have to go far beyond an usual declaration of friendship, and would perhaps have to be explicitly be said.

As Rasutin said:
"Extraverted sensing......external statics of objects: (share, texture, impact, force, etc.), what we refer to as properties of an object or objective traits, leading to action toward objects via mobilization or arrangement, manipulation of force to achieve desired results. "

We can't see objects, we can tell their color and general shape (square, circle, color) but we can not grasp how they can fit in certain spaces, in certain way in a room, we don't like force and we don't like to use force on others; we can't stand to see people hurt, so we can't watch violent depictions. We can't arrange furnature and we will not bipass a system to achieve our wanted results if there is a law or rule that a heirarche has been established.

I don't buy things because I don't know how or where they will go; I try to minimize because clutter begins to stress me out, I need as much free and moveable space around the home as possible. People find this quality about us very strange.

We love our duals because they have a place for everything, in a productive, efficient manner, so, we don't stress about where the cups will go and if it will be the best way to put it in a certain spot in the drawer or how many cups we will have to have in the house.

Se polr does not allow me to catagorize within my mind the different textures of objects, yes there are many and I do try to keep a count, like velvet, silk, crinkle, knit, however when purchasing a mix of these fabrics, I am unable to coordinate them. I choose all white for my bedding, because I want to keep it simple, but even then I noticed that when I took home the fabrics for the duvet, pillow and sheets that somehow each was a different color and texture (pillow cases are like a little yellow, the duvet is courser, the sheets are soft and bright white) that when I picked them out at the store, I couldn't tell which went with what. They are a little different from one another, but I don't mind, I hope no one else does...I don't know what else to say, except how I can't see the difference in them when I go to buy them...It makes me so frustrated that I can't even get it right with just plain white, it makes me feel inferior, and frustrated and incapable of just letting things be...it hurt me emotionally to have to feel this way.

These women don't understand that such a small task as buying a bedding is so overly exhausing and frustrating for me and it makes me so emotional. I wish I could step into a store like a lot of ESTj's I see at IKEA and just pick out the right thing and be out in 15 second; it's not like my eyes are captivated by many of the other styles, I can't even get it right with just one color let alone loving like pink for instance like my ESFp friend does.

In 11th grade I went to school with blue and black socks and my sister noticed so threw out the blue socks so I wouldn't confuse them.

There was another EII woman at Ikea, shopping next to me for sheets, like myself, she would pick one up, look at it, then put it back, she was in the sheet section for 2 hours, as I watched her ask people about the sheets, their sheet count and differences in fabric...etc...she ended up picking white sheets.

This feels rather alien to me. I value very much, and while I may not be strong at it, I still have strong ideals on aesthetics. I might not always maintain high standards (on a day-to-day basis), but I manage by having a certain core set of aesthetics that I try to keep as a minimum. This means I keep my cool and always have something to refer to. I do not simply allow my ideals to suddenly go out of the window one day, or have a breakdown because I cannot tell which things go together. In the long term, this means having a bare minimum standard, and for example, having a few favourite colours and combinations of colours, and a certain Design for Living. This generally means if something wears down, or becomes untidy, or generally "disharmonious", I simply replace it. It also means that I am constantly keeping an eye out to make slight improvements to my "system". I should also say, if I am uncertain about a "new" decision that needs to be made in that area, I generally go on the side of caution if it is an important decision (which may mean not making an active decision at all), or perhaps, if it is of less importance, I try something a little different. It would not do me to be have any sudden unpleasant surprises, so it is something I am keen to always keep in mind and improve.

[empineer]

True. Her way of insisting on people having to believe her immediately and insisting on it sounds SEI to me