Fi Hidden Agenda of SLIs-ISTps

[Suz]

SLI's tell me how Fi-HA or weak Fi manifests in you. Examples! And why you do what you do. . .So mysterious and confusing. . .

[lucky]

Not telling people how I feel about them, even people closest to me. I assume they know, but some types of people need affirmation.

Appearing as if I don't care about anything.

Wanting to love and be open with others, but feeling an overpowering need to protect myself.

It manifests as having my deepest core desire to love everyone unconditionally, knowing that a condition of being human is that no one is perfect but everyone deserves to be loved.

The problem is that being so reserved and logical, I often don't know the best or appropriate way to express that feeling to people. If I express my feelings with words, it's usually either too little or too much, and people write me off as being insincere or reject me completely.

But I'm not that great with words, especially on the spot, and my ultimate fear is that if I share my true feelings towards people I make myself vulnerable. Yet the older I get, I'm becoming less concerned with what's "appropriate", and I also begin to realize that another condition of being human is vulnerability.

My most effective way of expressing feelings are by actions and my dedication to those closest to me.

[Cyrano]

It manifests as having my deepest core desire to love everyone unconditionally, knowing that a condition of being human is that no one is perfect but everyone deserves to be loved.

The problem is that being so reserved and logical, I often don't know the best or appropriate way to express that feeling to people. If I express my feelings with words, it's usually either too little or too much, and people write me off as being insincere.

But I'm not that great with words, especially on the spot, and my ultimate fear is that if I share my true feelings towards people I make myself vulnerable. Yet the older I get, the less I'm concerned with what's "appropriate", and I also begin to realize that another condition of being human is vulnerability.

My most effective way of expressing feelings are by actions and my dedication to those closest to me.

Well put.

[Suz]

Not telling people how I feel about them, even people closest to me. I assume they know, but some types of people need affirmation.

Appearing as if I don't care about anything.

Wanting to love and be open with others, but feeling an overpowering need to protect myself.

It manifests as having my deepest core desire to love everyone unconditionally, knowing that a condition of being human is that no one is perfect but everyone deserves to be loved.

The problem is that being so reserved and logical, I often don't know the best or appropriate way to express that feeling to people. If I express my feelings with words, it's usually either too little or too much, and people write me off as being insincere or reject me completely.

But I'm not that great with words, especially on the spot, and my ultimate fear is that if I share my true feelings towards people I make myself vulnerable. Yet the older I get, I'm becoming less concerned with what's "appropriate", and I also begin to realize that another condition of being human is vulnerability.

My most effective way of expressing feelings are by actions and my dedication to those closest to me.

[matilda]

quick question. that could also be Fe-DS, am I right?

[Suz]

quick question. that could also be Fe-DS, am I right?

That brings up an interesting issue--

would the dual seeking function be more of an oblivious need and the HA be more of a need and want?

I dont know the answer to this, would anyone care to comment?

[thePirate]

I went through a few fi hidden agenda threads and theres a sufficient lack of concrete examples. instead of just agreeing,(cyrano) putting individual interpretations of your ha, how it exists in your mind and manifests in your behavior would be great. enfps here generally seem to be lost when it comes to you guys and the lack of things like this is part of the reason whyy.

they needeth you

[matilda]

Not telling people how I feel about them, even people closest to me. I assume they know, but some types of people need affirmation.

Appearing as if I don't care about anything.

Wanting to love and be open with others, but feeling an overpowering need to protect myself.

It manifests as having my deepest core desire to love everyone unconditionally, knowing that a condition of being human is that no one is perfect but everyone deserves to be loved.

The problem is that being so reserved and logical, I often don't know the best or appropriate way to express that feeling to people. If I express my feelings with words, it's usually either too little or too much, and people write me off as being insincere or reject me completely.

But I'm not that great with words, especially on the spot, and my ultimate fear is that if I share my true feelings towards people I make myself vulnerable. Yet the older I get, I'm becoming less concerned with what's "appropriate", and I also begin to realize that another condition of being human is vulnerability.

My most effective way of expressing feelings are by actions and my dedication to those closest to me.

I was just wondering if these things overlapped with Fe-DS/Fe-HA in XLEs and LXIs. Not related to the OP sorry

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Perhaps I will discuss this some other time. ***how mysterious***

[Suz]

Perhaps I will discuss this some other time. ***how mysterious***

Can't keep all your secrets to yourself cyclops!

[Anna1921]

I did a search and found some old threads on this, but I wanted some updated opinions and examples, so... what do you know about Fi hidden agenda in SLIs?

[fen]

I can't say, but I am interested as well.

[Park]

Most recent example would be me talking to someone I trust about what I'm going through emotionally.

[Beautiful sky]

Most recent example would be me talking to someone I trust about what I'm going through emotionally.

I find that I usually get this trust very easily in real life. So much so that SLI are willing to sit down with me and pour their heart out. Fi activation.

[Radio]

Most recent example would be me talking to someone I trust about what I'm going through emotionally.

like everyone else.

[The Reality Denialist]

Most recent example would be me talking to someone I trust about what I'm going through emotionally.

like everyone else.

I beg to differ and I really, really mean it. Did I say I was being very serious about it? ...because I really, really am. It is like torture #1 to get into that mindset #2 to see any point in it #3 to make yourself feel like a total dumb-ass who can not find his way out of the thinnest possible paper bag.

[Suz]

It means a lot to me when someone trusts me enough to confide in me.

[Park]

It means a lot to me when someone trusts me enough to confide in me.

Yup. And I value those relationships highly.

[silke]

In xLIs "inert" Fi HA and Fe-PoLR seems to manifest as inability to perceive positive affect in a dynamic way and as absence of its transmission on their part.

I've recently translated this male SLI profile by Beskova which contained several mentions of what could possibly be expressions of Fi-HA/Fe-PoLR e.g. the part of the profile where it mentions how they can feel attracted to someone from a distance, but never show it for months and even years, which in practice I've found to be true among male xLIs (usually among Si/Fi-subs). The more strongly they ignore Fe - they more inclined they are towards passive contemplation, and, consequently, towards idealization of the person in their mind instead of assessing and influencing the actual course of events.

"Men of this type are observant, possess an ironic mind and an unobtrusive, refined sense of humor, although they are not willing to show this for just anyone. GABIN overall is not very demonstrative and prefers a sufficiently secluded, calm life far away from people, the noise, the fuss, and all the possible calamities.

GABIN exists as if outside of current culture. He is unusually critical of everything, retains his own point of view, and is difficult to influence by advertisements or other manifestations of popular culture. Clubbing, senseless noisy gathering with many unknown people where no one can hear anyone else, do not draw youths of this type.

Another matter is a social gathering with familiar people, where he feels himself valued and loved, a small corporate party for example. Here GABIN can even take initiative and proceed to entertain guests, or, at least, he will try to support the general atmosphere of celebration.

Not every girl is able to entice distrustful GABIN. First, he does not believe that he can be attractive to someone. Second, rarely everyone succeeds in awakening any enthusiasm or interest in him - indeed GABIN, as a rule, does not hurry anywhere. Behind his courageous, solid appearance hides impossible shyness and indecisiveness. His understanding of relationships is poor, thus he does not see when he should show initiative and when it's unnecessary. So that everything is simple and not as terrifying, he may prefer to not take any initiative at all. Instead, he chooses to fill himself with mysteriousness to excite curiosity in others by his absence.

Relations with GABIN usually happen accidentally - he himself does not understand where they came from and how they originated. He is capable of falling in love from a distance, only by eyes, observing the person who randomly captured his heart for a long time. In this case, being a contemplator by his nature, he can spend months and even years in this state and not take any action.
...
GABIN is reserved (because he is easily wounded), and does not like to put his feelings on display for strangers. Fact is that he is not so confident in himself, as it may seem. Learn to give praise and support to your partner, then he will more easily manage his life, and will feel somewhat better about himself.
...
However, besides the business aspects, human relations at work are exceptionally important for GABIN. He monitors them carefully. It is necessary for him that he is loved, valued, and praised. As a result of his constant (but almost imperceptible) efforts in this direction, GABIN usually occupies the role of everyone's favorite in a group."

Other logical types besides SLIs also have a difficulty assessing where they stand with respect to others, however, static logical types, such as LSIs or SLE, try to clarify things up in a more direct and active manner, by 'shaking things up'. Whereas behavior of SLIs in such situations is very undemonstrative, unobtrusive, 'mute' even. They try to 'slip out' of situations and relationships that feel disconcerting to them, wanting to protect their inner space from negative impressions. This is where IEE's ability to create a safe emotional environment for them comes into play.

For comparison, here is a LSI profile that mentions how in cases of uncertainty LSI feels the need to stir things and and to "break though the boundaries".

... It is more difficult to understand what it meant by "the land that goes from under my feet." First, the land never actually leaves. The LSI needs to stir it up the levels dangerous to life in the physical or social sense, the point where it "begins to leave". Efforts of un-dualized LSI are directly exactly at this. Why one might ask? To him it just feels that somewhere close to him there is something is happening, but to see it and be involved in it which will turn his life from dull into full, he needs to break through the boundaries. But how this can be done nobody tells him. So thus he goes breaking in everywhere. He will follow to any adventure, take on any danger, to feel that all this have been accomplished by him.

Among other things, he possesses a kind of unconscious attraction to annoy other people by his behavior (some like to make chained dogs bark). Why? In my opinion, he is in unconscious hope to find emotional response from anybody who is more or less equal to the force of his dual, which gives him the required background.

edit: another example of SLI's Fe-PoLR + positivism
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...y-of-Functions

Misunderstandings occurs when a person, for example, sits and tearfully recounts a story of how he was supposedly offended. The whole situation is such that help is not required, there is nothing there to help with. But for some reason he is still telling it! And often I find myself quietly falling into stupor, frantically trying to figure out what kind of response is required of me. It is clear that no thoughts come to my mind, except: "Huh, so what do I do, what do you want?" All of this is reflected on my face with corresponding expression, and the person ... the person starts feeling upset or even angry not seeing any adequate response from me to his story. (One-dimensional Fe : SLI "Gabin")

[stray]

GABIN exists as if outside of current culture. He is unusually critical of everything, retains his own point of view, and is difficult to influence by advertisements or other manifestations of popular culture. Clubbing, senseless noisy gathering with many unknown people where no one can hear anyone else, do not draw youths of this type.

Clubbing? Funny... Places like that go beyond dislike for me. I can barely operate. I had this friend who was dragging me out a few years back.. like he saw me as his "wingman", but I was the worst person to be with. Not once did I ever have to initiate much either. Some women would just grind their asses in my face, handing a "social life" on a plate and... I'm just like "Uhhh... OK". I don't know how to enjoy myself or get in a big party mode like other people.

The thing I dislike even more is if there's someone I think I connect with, and then I lose them to the "crowd", and lose one on one time. I find myself resenting them for it, but it's not jealousy exactly.. More like watching someone cross a chasm I can't get across. They're expecting me to emotionally participate in everything like them, but I never can, and turn around.

[Park]

the part of the profile where it mentions how they can feel attracted to someone from a distance, but never show it for months and even years, which in practice I've found to be true among male xLIs. Usually, the more they emphasize their Fi hidden agenda (it is the inert Ni/Si xLI subtypes that put heavier focus on mobilizing function) and the more strongly they ignore Fe - the more inclined they are towards contemplation, and, subsequently, towards idealization of the person in their mind instead of attempting to assess and influence the actual events that are transpiring.

Behind his courageous, solid appearance hides impossible shyness and indecisiveness. His understanding of relationships is poor, thus he does not see when he should show initiative and when it's unnecessary.

Relations with GABIN usually happen accidentally - he himself does not understand where they came from and how they originated. He is capable of falling in love from a distance, only by eyes, observing the person who randomly captured his heart for a long time. In this case, being a contemplator by his nature, he can spend months and even years in this state and not take any action.

GABIN is reserved (because he is easily wounded), and does not like to put his feelings on display for strangers. Fact is that he is not so confident in himself, as it may seem.

Spot on!

Wouldn't you say so, @Gilly?

[Eliza Thomason]

@siuntal's whole old post #7 here is interesting and helpful to reread. I already "liked" it before and can't again.

edit: another example of SLI's Fe-PoLR + positivism:
Misunderstandings occurs when a person, for example, sits and tearfully recounts a story of how he was supposedly offended. The whole situation is such that help is not required, there is nothing there to help with. But for some reason he is still telling it! And often I find myself quietly falling into stupor, frantically trying to figure out what kind of response is required of me. It is clear that no thoughts come to my mind, except: "Huh, so what do I do, what do you want?" All of this is reflected on my face with corresponding expression, and the person ... starts turning angry, not seeing any adequate response to his story. (One-dimensional Fe : SLI "Gabin")

This exactly happened with SLI and I yesterday on the phone. Somehow we touched on this topic, I think when I was telling her about my visit with my EII sis-in-law that day. He had asked me what we talked about, and then for some related reason he asked me, "What did you say to your ex when you found out about the affair? How did that go?"

Since we usually talk about the here and now and not ancient history, I jumped on this, forgetting that SLIs are "Askers" and frequently "ask" just to make conversation, not because they are dying to know the answer.

So that being a key time fraught with emotions for me, I retold the whole story beginning with how I found out and of course, including a full explanation of all the stuff about how I was feeling back then, leading up to the actual answer finally. Phew!

When I finished he said "Oh", or yawned or something. I laughed so hard at this inappropriate dud response, and said, "Am I boring you?" He quickly tried to cover himself saying, "Oh, I realized I already heard that." and I just giggled at his awkwardness (like he was wondering if there was something else he was supposed to say) and made sure he knew he wasn't in the hot seat over that. I know he loves me and his being disengaged when I was sharing something important (though ancient) doesn't change that or offend me...

[jessica129]

Yeah I dislike "clubbing" with a severe passion. The only way I can relax in those situations is to be on something. I really don't get what's so fun about dancing with drunk people whom you'll most likely never see again, who are too drunk to have meaningful conversations with in a place you cant even hear yourself think. I think raves or something where everyone is on drugz might be good for mental stimulation but in general, its so damn awkward for me. So often I get invited to clubs and reluctantly go so these ppl don't think I'm completely antisocial but to me, it's about as uncomfortable as humanly possible. My friends go and freak out and dance and talk to strangers and I'm the awkward person in the corner trying to get drunk enough to relax. No thanks ugh. Oh, this really doesn't have anythig to do with the topic at hand. Um I'd contribute to that but everyone's opinion of what Fi is seems to be drastically different across the board so what's the point

[Red Villain]

I enjoy people who are upfront with me emotionally, and judge the character of a person by a rigid moral discipline. What's further, I would very much enjoy a really deep relationship with someone who can dissolve my inhibitions- to "love deeply" if you will. But I cant really make it happen.

[jessica129]

I enjoy people who are upfront with me emotionally, and judge the character of a person by a rigid moral discipline. What's further, I would very much enjoy a really deep relationship with someone who can dissolve my inhibitions- to "love deeply" if you will. But I cant really make it happen.

Basically, yeah. I have a really, really hard time taking things deeper and would really appreciate someone who would take over in that area and not judge me or take it personally for not being very emotionally expressive.

[Beautiful sky]

Jessi is very much like my father in that she states her value judgements very clearly. Um, if I can recall them correctly here are some of my dads (from translation).

Once, while watching talk show, like Jerry Springer together (lol) my father said "Is this what you call American family values? This, this is grace? These men going and having children everywhere? This is what you call family values?!!!!??!!!!" (lol) "This is not A MAN! This is an animal."

"That woman is filth; she was always bad to her husband. I knew this divorce was coming." (this has more dynamic element to it).

"What are you wearing?" (this has the undertone of disapproval; my father didn't often state his opinions with clear done, it was understated, to get you thinking and get you to be a little shameful of what actions you took).

More observational: "Each one of them has a dozen kids. Who's going to educate these kids and what kind of a life will they have?"

My father can be very very judgmental, but he would rather just watch comedies, dramas and game shows, nature shows, and Lifetime television (that sappy womanly stuff).

[Kalinoche buenanoche]

being Fi base,i often get the feeling that it does not allow me to just relax and merge,forgetting about ME for a sec.It is a schizoid function and kind of a burden tbh.i really wanna help you guys ,though.so y'know...if there are any questions n shit...

edit:i'm not Fi base anymore.yeah,like,maybe this situation stems from the fact that Fi is my creative function.So,willingly or not,I have to observe it and do things with it.
Also,it is posts like this that hand out the quintessence of socionics to humanity.

[ashlesha]

xlis are the most sensitive types ime. thats why they go well with fi creatives wh can handle that shit with finesse and be flexible about it. they can be a challenge in relationships because that kind of emotional information is very much at the forefront for them but in a way where it can manifest weirdly and not be communicated well. it can be very endearing and it can be frustrating.

[Gilly]

Sounds about right.

[Park]

A story from real life of male GABIN: "I was studying in medical school, and one girl seemed very attractive to me. And I walked around and looked at her, and for entire 6 years I continued liking her. And the next 2 years of residency as well. Then I finished with school. After some time I called her and asked her to marry me. She agreed. Thus we became married."

Best SLI description ever.

Siuntal, you should run this place.

[Cuddly McFluffles]

Best SLI description ever.

I could see SLIs being the ultimate Phlegmatics.

[glam]

Relations with GABIN usually happen accidentally - he himself does not understand where they came from and how they originated. He is capable of falling in love from a distance, only by eyes, observing the person who randomly captured his heart for a long time. In this case, being a contemplator by his nature, he can spend months and even years in this state and not take any action.

huh. i believe i know an SLI male in this state - and yes, he definitely exudes "mysteriousness."

[stray]

It's kind of nice hearing about people as socially stilted as I am. I've always thought I was a little screwed up for some inexplicable reason. Maybe this can be fixed.

One thing I would point out though is how aware I am of missed opportunities. By my mid-20s, I tried to compensate for it, but with equally bad results. No one ever told me, but I think it was too much. I went through my teens like one of those people who felt things from a distance, not getting enough out... and I hated myself for it. But then, I hate myself equally for trying to be open later. I picked the wrong people, and the wrong ways of doing it. Hell, I'm uncomfortable just saying this here.

[Eldanen]

It's kind of nice hearing about people as socially stilted as I am. I've always thought I was a little screwed up for some inexplicable reason. Maybe this can be fixed.

One thing I would point out though is how aware I am of missed opportunities. By my mid-20s, I tried to compensate for it, but with equally bad results. No one ever told me, but I think it was too much. I went through my teens like one of those people who felt things from a distance, not getting enough out... and I hated myself for it. But then, I hate myself equally for trying to be open later. I picked the wrong people, and the wrong ways of doing it. Hell, I'm uncomfortable just saying this here.

I'm going to do a bit of thread necromancy here and agree with this post to some degree. I remarked to someone once a year ago that, as a kid, I really felt no desire to connect with other people. The person I said this to chuckled a bit derisively and asked how such a thing was possible. I really don't know. I felt content to some degree. I wasn't happy, but I wasn't consciously aware of being depressed either. My attempts in my late teens and twenties at making up for this have left me with nothing but regrets. The person whose influence in my life occasioned this change in attitude that caused me that pain is someone I ultimately regard with hatred. I'm not sure where it came from or why. I just want to find a metaphorical cave and to stop wanting what in the end has been a dagger in my stomach for so many years. And as far as what people think of that, it doesn't matter to me. I'm done caring. I'm tired of feeling ripped open for other people.

[jessica129]

Growing up, all I ever heard was how different and strange I was for not wanting many friends. I tried to be who I thought others wanted me to be and it feels forced and empty. I still constantly get crap for it from certain people and had I been the person I was a year ago, I would've taken it to heart but the fact of the matter is is that I'm perfectly content in my own company and more often than not, prefer it to being with the majority of people. THAT'S OK. I told this to someone who gives me crap about being so independent and their response was literally, 'you're so weird. that's not normal. you should change that. maybe that's why you're so messed up'. Whatever, for real. Some people take it personally when I say that--like I don't think they're good enough company to have around....which sometimes, it's true....but most of the time, I just want to be alone. I'm not 'depressed' or 'weird' or planning to kill you, I just like my own goddamn company. LOL Which is weird because a year ago I couldn't tolerate being alone. I guess this is good.

[Anna1921]

Growing up, all I ever heard was how different and strange I was for not wanting many friends. I tried to be who I thought others wanted me to be and it feels forced and empty. I still constantly get crap for it from certain people and had I been the person I was a year ago, I would've taken it to heart but the fact of the matter is is that I'm perfectly content in my own company and more often than not, prefer it to being with the majority of people. THAT'S OK. I told this to someone who gives me crap about being so independent and their response was literally, 'you're so weird. that's not normal. you should change that. maybe that's why you're so messed up'. Whatever, for real. Some people take it personally when I say that--like I don't think they're good enough company to have around....which sometimes, it's true....but most of the time, I just want to be alone. I'm not 'depressed' or 'weird' or planning to kill you, I just like my own goddamn company. LOL Which is weird because a year ago I couldn't tolerate being alone. I guess this is good.

Same, same, same. I have an ESE friend who gives me crap about this all the time -- she says the same thing, that it's not "normal" or "healthy" to be this way. And I tell her simply that there is no normal, and ever if there were I wouldn't care lol. She means well, but it is annoying. I have to limit my interactions with her because of things like that.

There was a time in my life when I tried being more outgoing as well -- went out all the time, went to clubs (drank tons of alcohol, trying to get comfortable as well). And after a few months I thought, the Hell with this; I'm gonna be me, and anyone who doesn't like it needs to get over whatever hangups they have with my lifestyle. Or not, I don't care as long as they leave me alone.

But to my close friends, I am loyal to the end. And it hurts so much not to have that returned, as has happened on occasion, to my utter shock at the time -- I think Fi HA can mean you're a little blind at times to what others really feel or how strong the bond really is. Either way too much trust or way too little; it's hard to strike that balance. So with close friends, when there's a feeling of security and trust in the relationship, that is held as very important and worth protecting.

[Eliza Thomason]

Growing up, all I ever heard was how different and strange I was for not wanting many friends. I tried to be who I thought others wanted me to be and it feels forced and empty. I still constantly get crap for it from certain people and had I been the person I was a year ago, I would've taken it to heart but the fact of the matter is is that I'm perfectly content in my own company and more often than not, prefer it to being with the majority of people. THAT'S OK. I told this to someone who gives me crap about being so independent and their response was literally, 'you're so weird. that's not normal. you should change that. maybe that's why you're so messed up'. Whatever, for real. Some people take it personally when I say that--like I don't think they're good enough company to have around....which sometimes, it's true....but most of the time, I just want to be alone. I'm not 'depressed' or 'weird' or planning to kill you, I just like my own goddamn company. LOL Which is weird because a year ago I couldn't tolerate being alone. I guess this is good.

Good for you Jessica. You are so much better off with your own company than BAD company. When the right one comes along, who you know is right, you will be available and not involved and/or totally messed up from trying to make it with the wrong one. Plus, you won't have wasted years pining, "Why don't I have someone?".

[fen]

Fi-HA seems endearing. :3

[jessica129]

Well that's good. I married a 19 year old and (props to me being a 26 yr old cougar at the time) most 18 year old I know in the military are already married with a kid. They don't play around but thats a whole other topic for a rainy day..

[Park]

So I went to a large, party-like gathering the other night. I spent most of my time watching immature (mostly younger) people getting drunk, dancing and acting like obnoxious fools. A few of my acquaintances were there so I talked to them briefly, trying to pretend I felt neutral about the atmosphere which I hated and felt somewhat uncomfortable in. I was kinda bored, observing what's going on around me and not finding anything to enjoy or a way to blend in. (Not that I care to fit in too much, it just sucks feeling so distant sometimes; especially when you're supposed to enjoy yourself and celebrate). Thankfully some food was given to me, so my time wasn't completely wasted. Then I met an older gentleman who was slightly intoxicated but in the mood for storytelling. One story led to another, and I practically spent the rest of the night talking to him (although mostly listening/asking) about a million different things. He took me on a journey through his life, career and so on, and even though his breath and tempo were getting worse and worse as he sipped on his alcohol, I retained my position of a friendly interlocutor because there was nothing else to do, the guy was good company and had some cool stories to tell. I would have left the place earlier (actually probably wouldn't have gone in the first place) but I was invited and kind of in a role of an escort, so I had to be there.

[/pointless post] :\