Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
All these theories describe the same reality, the same empirical phenomena, only using different names and explanations for what we all can observe. The Big Five is the most commonly accepted model, but its five basic traits are nothing but the four dimensions in Socionics, MBTT, and Keirsey with one dimension added -- neuroticism. Conscientiousness is the same phenomenon as the J/P dichotomy, which is the same as the difference between rational and irrational types in Socionics and Jung.

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The most fundamental and generally valid definition of any type in any model -- including Socionics -- is in relation to the four (or five) basic dimensions (scales, dichotomies). If anyone, at any time or any place, would ever find that his or her presumed type in Socionics contradicts his or her presumed typed as defined by the four dichotomies, then we know for certain that he or she has been mistyped. Your type in Socionics is necessarily defined by the four dimensions.
I don't agree. The four "dimensions" are not necessarily the only way to describe the empirical phenomena that is internally consistent. A description of physical dimensions using feet instead of meters isn't incorrect, it's just confusing; correct and consistent translation is needed between the two.

It seems at least as probable to me that a large fraction of those who take such questionnaires as the MBTI, respond based upon their typical contribution to society rather than their preferred set of surroundings, given a choice between the two.

LII expects to be given a fairly consistent schedule and such, but isn't too great at producing one in the "real world". ILI expects to encounter exciting changes in life, but isn't too great at producing them. A significant part of the human need for a dual presence is rooted in this. The extrovert attracts and aggregates such conditions as their dual unconsciously expects for their surroundings.

However the introvert rational (e.g.) consciously only expects their own self to have an inner orderliness, i.e. for their ideas to make sense or their relationships to be in accordance to the ideal archetype. They are conscious of their environment only insofar as they can have an effect at changing the perceptions of others or see things from the perspective of others. Likewise the introvert irrational is only conscious of the outward environment insofar as they can impose order by challenging the logic or ethics of others, or by figuring out who is right and who is wrong about things.

Thus, I'm inclined to believe that the way they answer on a test is most likely to be affected by what they can consciously "do something" about. The rational or irrational impulse is certainly there in a given type, but it is turned inwards and most of the time doesn't directly reflect action. In practice this depends on whether and to what degree you are extremely focused on yourself, versus the "real world" at the time of testing. This accounts for many like myself who receive 50-50 results, as well as the many cases where self-described members of a given "type community" online experience high levels of quasi-identical tension with each other.