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Thread: Which country is most INFp/ESTp/ISTj/ENFj?

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    Default Which country is most INFp/ESTp/ISTj/ENFj?

    Talk, discuss... one country/type please


    I heard Turkey is ESTpish


    is like a wet kiss on the cheek and a warm hug by a cute smiling girl.
    is the confetti shots on your birthday party with all your friends.
    is a way to completely rip apart the face of god and stare directly at the naked universe.
    is like over here and then over there and they are all connected and I am on amphetamine.

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    Hmm.. russia, eh? I heard russian whores go for 50$ :wink:
    is like a wet kiss on the cheek and a warm hug by a cute smiling girl.
    is the confetti shots on your birthday party with all your friends.
    is a way to completely rip apart the face of god and stare directly at the naked universe.
    is like over here and then over there and they are all connected and I am on amphetamine.

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    To the extent that such typings make sense - - Germany's (still) ISTj, France is ESFj, Belgium is ISFp, Spain is ESFp.

    So I guess France has a lot of ENFj character as well.

    Also, perhaps surprisingly, Germany also has a strong INFp streak.

    Spain is essentially , so it's ESTp as well.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    US and Britain are usually thought of as Te dominant countries. US more as ENTj. Britain ESTj (or ENTj I guess).

    Japan seems to me like potential ISTp country but I'm not expert on Asian cultures so can't say. They can be quite aggressive and expansionist which is not very ISTp.

    I have read several times that Finland is ISTp. I'm not sure why Finland is often typed Si primary (because we drink a lot??). I can see the Te creative function though. And not really INTp so I guess ISTp. I have previously said ISTj but I'm starting to think I'm wrong. MBTI ISTJ perhaps. There are lots of routines, rules, and regulations here. On the other hand there is a "breaking the rules is ok if it is needed to get things done but not in other cases" mentality. Militarily Finland has never been aggressive but very defensive/anti-submissive instead. Quite ISTp I guess.

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    Belgium seems rather ISTp to me than ISFp, Expat. I could be worng, of course, but it is painfully ...as we've both noticed.:wink:

    And I always thought French movies were more alpha because they seem more than , cuz in French porn I see on TV women are more of caretakers behaving gently and soft etc, and thats not beta at all. Beta girls would jump on you, wrestle with you, pin you down, then kiss you, lol. And its not just in porn, french entertainment seems just kinda to me.
    What good is a book that does not even transport us beyond all books?

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    And Fins seem to be quietly strange as well as strangely quiet. Proof (of sorts): http://www.finst.ee/images/isokahvi.jpg

    If it were always September in Finland, I'd move there tomorrow.

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    Since Germany is bound to pop up in this type of thread, I'll say what I know of it. First-hand experience and so on. Here goes.

    -- very orderly. Tidies up and cleans. Does it not because "one is supposed to", but because that way life gets more enjoyable; i.e., can't relax when everything is untidy and filthy.

    -- work first, fun afterwards. Separates life in two categories: one is official (i.e., work), one is private (i.e., fun). Behaves differently in those categories.

    -- secretly soppy and sentimental.

    -- tense.

    -- very idealistic and in a way very conscientious. There was a corruption scandal a few years back - for our standards, a HUGE scandal - but in Russia (where I was living at the time) the newspapers were slightly bemused how one could make such a fuss about what seemed a comparatively normal, everyday case of corruption, really nothing out of the ordinary.

    -- takes things too seriously, gets absorbed by details, is unable to see the bigger picture and move on. In this, the total opposite of Britain, where people see the bigger picture and tend to be a bit more relaxed and sloppy (in a good way).

    I'll add that I'm not sure if that is particularly German. It could be Germanic - i.e. something that is also noticeable in the German-speaking part of Switzerland and in Scandinavia, Iceland and the Netherlands.

    My own part of Germany is hedonistic, open to the world, inventive, friendly and hospitable. ISFp?

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    American is ESTp, even though is rewards SJ types.
    SEE

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

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    Quote Originally Posted by schrödinger's cat
    Since Germany is bound to pop up in this type of thread, I'll say what I know of it. First-hand experience and so on. Here goes.

    -- very orderly. Tidies up and cleans. Does it not because "one is supposed to", but because that way life gets more enjoyable; i.e., can't relax when everything is untidy and filthy.

    -- work first, fun afterwards. Separates life in two categories: one is official (i.e., work), one is private (i.e., fun). Behaves differently in those categories.

    -- secretly soppy and sentimental.

    -- tense.

    -- very idealistic and in a way very conscientious. There was a corruption scandal a few years back - for our standards, a HUGE scandal - but in Russia (where I was living at the time) the newspapers were slightly bemused how one could make such a fuss about what seemed a comparatively normal, everyday case of corruption, really nothing out of the ordinary.

    -- takes things too seriously, gets absorbed by details, is unable to see the bigger picture and move on. In this, the total opposite of Britain, where people see the bigger picture and tend to be a bit more relaxed and sloppy (in a good way).

    I'll add that I'm not sure if that is particularly German. It could be Germanic - i.e. something that is also noticeable in the German-speaking part of Switzerland and in Scandinavia, Iceland and the Netherlands.

    My own part of Germany is hedonistic, open to the world, inventive, friendly and hospitable. ISFp?
    In comparison to the US, I would also add that Germany has a far more laid-back party and socializing culture. Fewer rituals and less pretense, more time spent socializing, less emphasis on appearance and image.
    Germany is not ISTj. Absolutely not.
    :wink:
    “Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
    ― Anais Nin

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    I see Se and Fi in German culture... but I don't know much about it and my Fe is telling me it would be unwise to further elaborate.
    SEE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    I see Se and Fi in German culture... but I don't know much about it and my Fe is telling me it would be unwise to further elaborate.
    I don't see much Se. And do feel free to elaborate.
    “Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
    ― Anais Nin

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    I guess I was taking a more historical perspective... and with that I can get over the Se, but there's no way I can go without mention of the Fi (Fi is very imposing... it's the exact opposite of "live and let live"). In modern Germany I see lots of Ti (Germany is known for its engineering and scientists). I'm like 75% German btw... and I'm proud of it because I see the Germans and very strong people.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim
    In comparison to the US, I would also add that Germany has a far more laid-back party and socializing culture. Fewer rituals and less pretense, more time spent socializing, less emphasis on appearance and image.
    Plus, we do everything thoroughly. If we party, we PARTY. I've heard that bands love to perform in Germany, because at concerts there's no chit-chat going on at the side, no idle socializing, no milling around looking for other sources of entertainment. If we go to a concert, we really go to a concert. Sort of thing.

    No, not ISTJ. Could Switzerland be ISTJ, though? The German-speaking part?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    American is ESTp, even though is rewards SJ types.
    Well I guess lately it has been a bit ESTp with all the superficiality, celebrity worship and the war mongering attitude (no offense to ESTps hehe).

    Traditionally I see US as more ENTj though. I mean the effectiveness, business orientation, growth orientation, dynamicism, sort of "fairness" principle: fair competition but no mercy for the weak. It is like a civilized jungle where certain laws are enforced (no killing, no stealing, no bullshitting) and everything else is allowed and there are no safety nets for those who fall.

    Is this just the image they have been projecting here where I live

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kraus
    I can definately see the US as more ENTj than ESTp, for several reasons.

    First, America tends to have kind of a shitty . You've got all the druggies and smokers, the obesity, the teen pregnencies, etc. You get the idea.
    Yeah, all things ENTjs are fond of!
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    isn't necessarily about being healthy... in fact I think it's quite often about feeling good.
    SEE

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by Kraus
    I can definately see the US as more ENTj than ESTp, for several reasons.

    First, America tends to have kind of a shitty . You've got all the druggies and smokers, the obesity, the teen pregnencies, etc. You get the idea.
    Yeah, all things ENTjs are fond of!
    i am fond of those things as well.
    LII
    that is what i was getting at. if there is an inescapable appropriation that is required in the act of understanding, this brings into question the validity of socionics in describing what is real, and hence stubborn contradictions that continue to plague me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kraus
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by Kraus
    I can definately see the US as more ENTj than ESTp, for several reasons.

    First, America tends to have kind of a shitty . You've got all the druggies and smokers, the obesity, the teen pregnencies, etc. You get the idea.
    Yeah, all things ENTjs are fond of!
    Lol, I wasn't pegging ENTjs with that. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.
    I was rather referring to America's crap .

    No problem!
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    IEI subtype

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    INFP = ICELAND


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    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Sweden strikes me as very ISTj.
    Hmm...why ISTj? Judging from here they look pretty E, possibly N, quite F. Maybe ENFp wonderland? hehe. I'm not sure at all but why ISTj???

    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    If I ever have children, I want them to be swedes.
    Oh nonononono!!! My ears!! Stop it!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Everyone in the whole wild world should sit down sometime with an open mind and watch the Swedish movie, "Tillsammans". i know that you all could learn something from it.....even the most savage of beasts.
    Seen it Was good movie but why ISTj?

    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    hmmm. I'm trying to come up with an ENFj country but I just don't think one exists!
    This would be interesting to know

    P.S. It seems I didn't read the topic too well before I posted the first time...

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    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Sweden strikes me as very ISTj.
    Hmm...why ISTj? Judging from here they look pretty E, possibly N, quite F.
    Ah, but this could be because Finland is so ISTx. A question of perspective.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kraus
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheerio
    And I always thought French movies were more alpha because they seem more than , cuz in French porn I see on TV women are more of caretakers behaving gently and soft etc, and thats not beta at all. Beta girls would jump on you, wrestle with you, pin you down, then kiss you, lol. And its not just in porn, french entertainment seems just kinda to me.
    Indeed!
    I like it though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by schrödinger's cat
    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Sweden strikes me as very ISTj.
    Hmm...why ISTj? Judging from here they look pretty E, possibly N, quite F.
    Ah, but this could be because Finland is so ISTx. A question of perspective.
    Hehe okok. But for example there is a clear leadership style difference in Sweden and Finland. We have now several companies who have leaders from both countries (because of company fusions and such). What always seem to surface is the fact that Swedish leaders want to hold meetings and conversations until there is a satisfying compromise that everyone can agree to and full heartedly support. And every decision is open for renegotiation if necessary. Finnish style is more like "hold one meeting, quickly make a decision, stick to it and move to implement it (force people to submit to it if necessary)". Is it like xNFx and xSTx trying to find common ground.

    Also Finnish industry is very much technology oriented and engineers are the backbone. Swedish industry is more versatile, artistic and aesthetic and seem to do stuff like music, clothes, furniture much better. Maybe I'm making too much of these "details" I have to admit I don't have much first hand knowledge of Swedes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheerio
    Belgium seems rather ISTp to me than ISFp, Expat. I could be worng, of course, but it is painfully ...as we've both noticed.:wink:
    .
    Belgium is indeed painfully , so it's dominant sensory subtype. As for ISTp, the problem is finding any at all.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by schrödinger's cat
    Since Germany is bound to pop up in this type of thread, I'll say what I know of it. First-hand experience and so on. Here goes.

    -- very orderly. Tidies up and cleans. Does it not because "one is supposed to", but because that way life gets more enjoyable; i.e., can't relax when everything is untidy and filthy.
    Strong , weak (not being able to wait until they've done it)

    Quote Originally Posted by schrödinger's cat
    -- work first, fun afterwards.
    Again, weak

    Quote Originally Posted by schrödinger's cat

    Separates life in two categories: one is official (i.e., work), one is private (i.e., fun). Behaves differently in those categories.
    Weak , and rational generally

    Quote Originally Posted by schrödinger's cat

    -- secretly soppy and sentimental.
    Not confident in and (since it's "secretly")

    Quote Originally Posted by schrödinger's cat
    -- very idealistic and in a way very conscientious. There was a corruption scandal a few years back - for our standards, a HUGE scandal - but in Russia (where I was living at the time) the newspapers were slightly bemused how one could make such a fuss about what seemed a comparatively normal, everyday case of corruption, really nothing out of the ordinary.
    as neither strong function nor PoLR, perhaps role function

    Quote Originally Posted by schrödinger's cat
    -- takes things too seriously, gets absorbed by details, is unable to see the bigger picture and move on.
    Indication of strong and weak .

    Thanks for making the case for ISTj, cat.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by schrödinger's cat
    Plus, we do everything thoroughly. If we party, we PARTY. I've heard that bands love to perform in Germany, because at concerts there's no chit-chat going on at the side, no idle socializing, no milling around looking for other sources of entertainment. If we go to a concert, we really go to a concert. Sort of thing.
    Yes, these are signs of socionics rationality, another point for ISTj.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim
    I don't see much Se. And do feel free to elaborate.
    I do see in the sense that there's more to it than , an inclination to rely on own experiences and known procedures than try out new things (which would be called reckless, dangerous, risky, irresponsible etc). Things like cellphones and the internet took longer to really spread into Germany because the government, and society, were wary (although they did take to it after some time).

    And what about the very ISXj reluctance to use credit cards? Try using a credit card in a small shop or restaurant outside the touristic areas of German cities. In the news agency of the smallest village in the UK you can use credit cards.

    I can see that the over preferrence in Germany is fading, but it's still visible.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by schrödinger's cat
    Plus, we do everything thoroughly. If we party, we PARTY. I've heard that bands love to perform in Germany, because at concerts there's no chit-chat going on at the side, no idle socializing, no milling around looking for other sources of entertainment. If we go to a concert, we really go to a concert. Sort of thing.
    Yes, these are signs of socionics rationality, another point for ISTj.
    I have ISTj friend who while working concentrates 100% to work. While we do sports together he is 100% sport (like saying "I can't ride bike slowly, either I drive with full speed or not at all"). Then again he goes to rave parties and I can imagine he will be 100% "rave" there. The point is: I'm not sure if this is typical ISTj behavior but it is definately not a point against ISTj.

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    So we're ISTJ after all? Zis is mindbockling. But see, when you say that it's different, because you've lived there (yes?), so you know what you're talking about instead of jumping to foregone conclusions. And I get the impression that you're neither an ISTJ-hater nor a Germanophobe.

    If it's true, then Kim and I come from a country that's our conflictor. Wow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    And what about the very ISXj reluctance to use credit cards? Try using a credit card in a small shop or restaurant outside the touristic areas of German cities. In the news agency of the smallest village in the UK you can use credit cards.
    i'm openly jealous of this ISXj quality.
    Now imagine how traumatic it was to give up our Deutschmark.

    The first German chancellor after WWII largely won the elections on the strength of his slogan: "No experiments." It's true that we're conservative and cautious. I've always thought that related more to our history. Lots of chaos and upheaval. Of course, different personalities respond to chaos in characteristic ways, so perhaps it was typical that we became more conservative? If WWI and II and the Third Reich had never happened, I would imagine that Germany today would be more like Switzerland, the Netherlands, and Danmark.

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    Quote Originally Posted by schrödinger's cat
    So we're ISTJ after all? Zis is mindbockling. But see, when you say that it's different, because you've lived there (yes?), so you know what you're talking about instead of jumping to foregone conclusions. And I get the impression that you're neither an ISTJ-hater nor a Germanophobe.
    I did my PhD in Germany, have lived and worked in three different provinces, my mother's family is German on both sides, I have dated German women, a lot of my friends are German, most of my clients are German, I just applied for a job in Germany, and I haven't been to only two of the 16 Bundesländer (S and M-P). I like Germany a lot and go there very often. Two weeks ago I spent a long weekend in Thuringen.

    As for ISTj, one of my very best male friends is a very typical ISTj.

    But that doesn't mean that I have to be uncritical, does it?

    Quote Originally Posted by schrödinger's cat
    If it's true, then Kim and I come from a country that's our conflictor. Wow.
    And I live in a country that's my conflictor - for the moment. Belgium's as ISFp as you can get.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by schrödinger's cat
    Now imagine how traumatic it was to give up our Deutschmark.

    It's true that we're conservative and cautious. I've always thought that related more to our history. Lots of chaos and upheaval.
    If any single historical event is responsible for that, I'd say it's the Thirty-Year War.

    Quote Originally Posted by schrödinger's cat
    Of course, different personalities respond to chaos in characteristic ways, so perhaps it was typical that we became more conservative? If WWI and II and the Third Reich had never happened, I would imagine that Germany today would be more like Switzerland, the Netherlands, and Danmark.
    Germany's too big for that.

    If WWI - and, by definition, WWII - had never happened, what we have today -- some sort of European Union dominated economically by Germany - would simply have happened sooner IMO. There is a good book by Niall Ferguson on that, The Pity of War.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by schrödinger's cat
    It's true that we're conservative and cautious. I've always thought that related more to our history. Lots of chaos and upheaval.
    If any single historical event is responsible for that, I'd say it's the Thirty-Year War.
    Agree.

    Of course Germany is too big to resemble any one country. But all the countries I've mentioned have something in common, and I think Germany would have shared this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by schrödinger's cat
    Plus, we do everything thoroughly. If we party, we PARTY. I've heard that bands love to perform in Germany, because at concerts there's no chit-chat going on at the side, no idle socializing, no milling around looking for other sources of entertainment. If we go to a concert, we really go to a concert. Sort of thing.
    Yes, these are signs of socionics rationality, another point for ISTj.
    I have ISTj friend who while working concentrates 100% to work. While we do sports together he is 100% sport (like saying "I can't ride bike slowly, either I drive with full speed or not at all"). Then again he goes to rave parties and I can imagine he will be 100% "rave" there. The point is: I'm not sure if this is typical ISTj behavior but it is definately not a point against ISTj.
    Not an ISTj trait. I'm exactly the same. When I bike, it's 100 bike. When I work, it's 100 work. When I rest...well, I don't particularly like to rest When I eat, it's 100 eat (which means that I eat in 4 mins).
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by schrödinger's cat
    Of course Germany is too big to resemble any one country. But all the countries I've mentioned have something in common, and I think Germany would have shared this.
    I agree with that
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheerio
    Belgium seems rather ISTp to me than ISFp, Expat. I could be worng, of course, but it is painfully ...as we've both noticed.:wink:
    .
    Belgium is indeed painfully , so it's dominant sensory subtype. As for ISTp, the problem is finding any at all.
    The thing is, I dont see any either.
    What good is a book that does not even transport us beyond all books?

    ~Nietzsche

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheerio
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheerio
    Belgium seems rather ISTp to me than ISFp, Expat. I could be worng, of course, but it is painfully ...as we've both noticed.:wink:
    .
    Belgium is indeed painfully , so it's dominant sensory subtype. As for ISTp, the problem is finding any at all.
    The thing is, I dont see any either.
    Well, it's easier to find a good bookshop in any average German or British town than in Brussels, and the Belgian bureaucracy, regulations, and police seem to have been designed for inneficiency and waste. The economy of the Wallonia is stagnant and politicians come up with a pseudo-plan called "Marshall Plan" (I did not know that the Wallonia was recovering from a war).

    Back to bookshops -- any large US shopping mall has a better, and bigger, bookshop than you can find in Brussels, whose best bookshop is actually the British implant Waterstones. And in cities like Liège it's even worse.

    So from the above, zero .

    The I can see in the prefered weekend activity of visiting each other to drink and eat ( ) and the dislike for any meaningful conversation.

    Anyway it's definitely subtype, so let's see:

    ISTp sensory subtype:

    Aesthete, disposed to obtaining of pleasant sensations. Kontakten also of bendings is considerably more than initial subtype. Is more optimistic, but is less operational. Sibarit epicure. It gravitates towards to humanitarian disciplines - skill, linguistics, history. It dresses with the taste, emphasizing merits by clothing, selecting accordion it is color.

    ISFp sensory subtype:

    It possesses a good aesthetical taste, this can be manifested in the clothing, in the formulation of interior, and in the occupations by applied skill. Frequently this artist- landscapists, they love to depict still life. This is the judge of welfare, comfort for it is very important. It sibarit, it follows its exterior view. Hedonist, loves to provide pleasure both to himself and by others. It is outwardly more well-fed, than the initial subtype of mediator.

    Given the above described weekend habit, I'd say Belgium is more the sensory subtype of ISFp rather than ISTp.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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