MY DUAL

[Shagbag The Wizard]

On the other hand, what things do you most like about your dual? Or, what qualities would you most like in a dual?

Ryu, I know you like your ego to be stroked, but really.......


Ok, fine.


Lock away the women and children. It's time.




***My Dual***



- Starts with L, ends with E


- Is awesome beyond words
- Knows he is awesome beyond words, in precise detail of how and why
- But isn't sure if other people know exactly how awesome he is, which secretly worries him
- Never gets tired of hearing me say how awesome he is
- Needs frequent reminders that I still think he's awesome (or he starts to panic)


- Outwardly oozes cool confidence and level-headed practicality
- Is generally quiet, thoughtful, and extreeeemely serious
(somehow this drives me WILD instead of BORED)
- Secretly longs to stop being so deadly serious sometimes and let it all hang out
- Realises he can do this with me OMG
- Acknowledges the statistical improbability of having found me and is secretly grateful
- But probably won't say it because only women and ******s express their feelings
- Realises he is a ******
- Blinks, shrugs
(cringing in horror is too much effort, and also 99.8% unproductive)
(as well as too gay)


- Is terrified of losing me
(but mainly because he'd have to endure all that tedious dating crap again)
- Is therefore willing to tolerate my imperfections, which he can precisely list


- Has few words but when he does speak he always has a 'point'
- Is always direct, doesn't beat around the bush
- Can be sharp and crude
(which my patience helps me to endure, unless it's funny)
- Has an opinion about everything
- Can be stubborn and cocky as all hell when he thinks he knows better
(which I find strangely CHARMING instead of IRRITATING)
- But is easily reduced to uncertainty or guilt by my kryptonic superpowers
(which he finds strangely COMPELLING instead of SHAMELESSLY MANIPULATIVE)
(which I find sweetly amusing and what the hell, might as well use it if it works)



- Has an unbelievably hypnotic, calming effect on me by his mere presence
- Is inspired by my brilliant ideas
(as long as they have some practical use)
- Is soothed by my laid-back "everything is ok, please calm the fuck down" vibes
- Has a somewhat black, sadistic sense of humour, but is never deliberately nasty
- Knows how to kick my lazy ass into gear when I'm procrastinating
- Sincerely congratulates me on my successes
- But secretly keeps a mental scorecard of who is more successful



- Tries to show initiative in romantic situations, but is always unsure if he's doing the right thing
- Tends to be wooden and formal when performing dating rituals
- Would be almost entirely clueless without having read a manual or FAQ beforehand
(which I find EXTREMELY ENDEARING and somewhat funny)
(and gently help to steer him in all the right directions)
(which I can see he greatly - but silently - appreciates)


- Nervously observes my external reactions at all times for clues to success of his initiatives:

IF reaction=expected result of his input

THEN
{
HUGE inward sigh of relief;
congratulate self on successful action, which was of course expected anyway;
continue to step B as planned;
}

ELSE
{
explosive random(panic;anger;irritation;fear;anxiety);
immediate review of possible causes for failure;
mental note of defective parts of plan for future reference;
initiate secondary procedures;
}


- Isn't scared to kill a roach
- Rolls his eyes (slightly) at my illogical squeamishness
- Will adhere to my instructions to use humane methods when despatching the roach
(eg. fast, fun flamethrower instead of slow, painful bug spray)
- Will immediately think of ways to prevent future roach problem (even if 3am)



- Is dead serious about the things he is passionate about
- Expects everyone to take these things just as seriously
- Is right about everything -related and he knows it, arguing with him is pointless
- Does not suffer fools lightly
- Traitors will be marked and remembered till the day he dies
- Their pleading is not likely to inspire any sympathy, they've had their chance



- Will (hopefully) not drag me to godawful noisy clubs and bars till all hours of the morning
- Will think of more "productive" and useful activities to keep us entertained
- Prefers it when it's just the two of us instead of a group



(I realise some of these points may not be strictly type-related but maybe at least somewhat common for ESTjs?)




Ok, I guess that's all I can think of for now.



Go ahead, guys, climb into me.

[Gilly]

He's not LSE, he's fishing for attention you dipshit.

[jewels]

seems to be a lot of Fe in that post. Could you be an INFp or Beta type?

[UDP]

seems to be a lot of Fe in that post. Could you be an INFp or Beta type?

To me, it oozes beta.
I don't think Shebag realizes how much better other elements would fit would fit...

- Has an unbelievably hypnotic, calming effect on me by his mere presence
- Is inspired by my brilliant ideas
(as long as they have some practical use)
- Is soothed by my laid-back "everything is ok, please calm the fuck down" vibes
- Has a somewhat black, sadistic sense of humour, but is never deliberately nasty
- Knows how to kick my lazy ass into gear when I'm procrastinating
- Sincerely congratulates me on my successes
- But secretly keeps a mental scorecard of who is more successful

That is not good evidence of being delta, but good evidence of being beta... And it would make a lot more sense in this way...

- Has an unbelievably hypnotic, calming effect on me by his mere presence
and wouldn't that make sense for an LSI to have on an EIE?
- Is inspired by my brilliant ideas
a beta NF would be more focused on 'inspiring' and creating an emotional lift or trying to spur on someone's drive, get their passion flowing...
(as long as they have some practical use)
This sounds a lot like a rationalized caveat so it still fits with some things you read in a delta profile about 'practicality'
- Is soothed by my laid-back "everything is ok, please calm the fuck down" vibes
This seems like you're both confused and trying to rationalize things into an EII having a 'calming presence'. (I wonder if you have issues seeing yourself as an EIE, say, because you think an "ENFj" is too 'extraverted' for you?). At any rate, you put a large emphasis on 'mood' (to be simple), and it seems it would be better for you to see that you having a more Fe than Fi focus.
- Has a somewhat black, sadistic sense of humour, but is never deliberately nasty
Beta >>>>>> Delta
- Knows how to kick my lazy ass into gear when I'm procrastinating
Both delta and beta NFs might feel that way, but even how you say that seems more beta. I have a feeling in reality you like what Ti+Se is, more than Te+Si is...
- Sincerely congratulates me on my successes
- But secretly keeps a mental scorecard of who is more successful
These two seem especially how an EIE and LSI would react. And I certainly wouldn't label those qualities as something I'd think of when describing my dual. It seems very beta, and very much aggressor/victim - the constant 'challenge' and 'competitiveness' of a relationship.

Like I said before, I think taking a new look at how betas and deltas are different, and which really applies to you (Shebag) more would be useful. You're describing a lot of thing about yourself that easily fit more into beta than delta, but you seem to be trying to force it through EII terminology that you read from various profiles or sites. I did that too when I first started, somewhat. Bottom line though, your post about your dual is a very strong push toward beta NF, to me.

[Gilly]

Actually it's not Beta at all. Go fuck yourself, Jesse.

[Socionics Is A Cult]

It's far too simplistic to say it's definitely not Beta or Delta or SLE or LSE or whatever.

[Socionics Is A Cult]

Oh excellent! Quadra tagteaming rules again.

[Brilliand]

- Is soothed by my laid-back "everything is ok, please calm the fuck down" vibes

This seems like evidence of Intratim (Shag) and Extratim (his dual).

[Brilliand]

This could describe an LSI... or maybe an SLE.

[crazedrat]

It actually sounds much more like an LSE.
I doubt an INFp would write that, it's far too obedient. Such obedience would make me feel weak, embarrassed, and vulnerable. It's kind of like the obedience you see in a dog.. it seems unjustified. Dogs are so ready to please.

[UDP]

Ryu, I know you like your ego to be stroked, but really.......


Ok, fine.


Lock away the women and children. It's time.




***My Dual***



- Starts with L, ends with E


- Is awesome beyond words
- Knows he is awesome beyond words, in precise detail of how and why
- But isn't sure if other people know exactly how awesome he is, which secretly worries him
- Never gets tired of hearing me say how awesome he is
- Needs frequent reminders that I still think he's awesome (or he starts to panic)

...

I could care less about your praising of me, and constantly praising me would be a turnoff. You remind me of going on a date with an IEI and all she did was try to smile at me and tell me how awesome I was. It's rather annoying to me.


What you listed there (referring to small list in the above quote), to me that is exactly the relationship between an SLE (who is looking hardcore for , as in, you expressing your opinion that he's awesome) and you an IEI, who wants to focus on letting your dual know how awesome he is. I really suggest you try to watch SLE-IEI (or LSI-EIE) interactions in real life.



If you want I could go through the rest of your post and point out why I think it seems IEI/EIE>EII, but I don't know if it's necessary or worth it.

I think once you come to terms with the reality that "LSEs" as you see them don't actually appreciate the things you do, and that the beta quadra is much more lively and receptive to sharing things the way you like it, it will be easier to see yourself as beta. Eventually, you'll might come to see delta as being too boring, especially in terms of how you go about emotions - this whole focus on 'awesomeness' you have? It's much better suited towards beta romancing than delta relationships.

[crazedrat]

What you listed there (referring to small list in the above quote), to me that is exactly the relationship between an SLE (who is looking hardcore for , as in, you expressing your opinion that he's awesome) and you an IEI, who wants to focus on letting your dual know how awesome he is. I really suggest you try to watch SLE-IEI (or LSI-EIE) interactions in real life.

no, that is pure bullshit. the beta relationship is not characterized by praise.. i am IEI and i think that shit is retarded. i never praise anyone, ever. infact i don't think i know how..
what you people are seeing as INFp is actually just him being a flaming fag.

[Gilly]

Nobody should ever talk to UDP ever again.

[Galen]

***My Dual***

Fe ego

[crazedrat]

Back when I typed myself as INTp, the reason I KNEW I wasn't INFp was because I hated the the shit people on this forum called "Fe". Turns out that wasn't what Fe was at all, and I had my type wrong because of it. I know Fi ego types who pussify shit all the time. My ESFp sister is constantly pussifying shit. I know an ISFj girl who pussifies everything. My INFj sister pussifies everything. Infact, I think Fi does it more! Seeing pussy shit is not proof of Fe ego!

[Socionics Is A Cult]

Who are the Beta bouncers nowadays btw?

[crazedrat]

I'm a fuckin Beta bouncer god dammit.

[Solidad]

I'm a fuckin Beta bouncer god dammit.

[JWC3]

Right, instead of just calling you out or saying what you think is wrong or right. I'm just going to go ahead and go through this list and bold out anything I personally can relate to / things that describe me in a relationship setting (I.E. Traits I think I posses). The important thing to keep in mind would obviously be that I am SLE.

Things that I can really relate to will be underlined as well.

Comments in Red.

Ryu, I know you like your ego to be stroked, but really.......


Ok, fine.


Lock away the women and children. It's time.




***My Dual***



- Starts with L, ends with E


- Is awesome beyond words
- Knows he is awesome beyond words, in precise detail of how and why
- But isn't sure if other people know exactly how awesome he is, which secretly worries him
- Never gets tired of hearing me say how awesome he is
- Needs frequent reminders that I still think he's awesome (or he starts to panic)


- Outwardly oozes cool confidence and level-headed practicality
- Is generally quiet, thoughtful, and extreeeemely serious
(somehow this drives me WILD instead of BORED) (Definitely depends on who I'm with, more mellow with certain people than with others. Definitely more crazy at certain times than others. Sometimes I'm downright mellow)
- Secretly longs to stop being so deadly serious sometimes and let it all hang out
- Realises he can do this with me OMG
- Acknowledges the statistical improbability of having found me and is secretly grateful
- But probably won't say it because only women and ******s express their feelings
- Realises he is a ****** (If what your getting as is, that you want some one who contradicts themselves I.E. doesn't express their feelings but does. then yes I can relate to this.)
- Blinks, shrugs
(cringing in horror is too much effort, and also 99.8% unproductive)
(as well as too gay)


- Is terrified of losing me
(but mainly because he'd have to endure all that tedious dating crap again) (FUCK DATING! and courtship and all that fucking... SHIT!)
- Is therefore willing to tolerate my imperfections, which he can precisely list (Depends on what they are.)


- Has few words but when he does speak he always has a 'point'
- Is always direct, doesn't beat around the bush
- Can be sharp and crude
(which my patience helps me to endure, unless it's funny)
- Has an opinion about everything
- Can be stubborn and cocky as all hell when he thinks he knows better
(which I find strangely CHARMING instead of IRRITATING)
- But is easily reduced to uncertainty or guilt by my kryptonic superpowers
(which he finds strangely COMPELLING instead of SHAMELESSLY MANIPULATIVE)
(which I find sweetly amusing and what the hell, might as well use it if it works)



- Has an unbelievably hypnotic, calming effect on me by his mere presence
- Is inspired by my brilliant ideas
(as long as they have some practical use) (I don't know if this is Ne, but I'm most certainly the type of person who when some one has a brilliant idea to do activity x, I jump up and say "Fuck yes!")
- Is soothed by my laid-back "everything is ok, please calm the fuck down" vibes (Useful specifically when I get worked up and don't understand specifically why)
- Has a somewhat black, sadistic sense of humour, but is never deliberately nasty (Dead babies, anyone?)
- Knows how to kick my lazy ass into gear when I'm procrastinating
- Sincerely congratulates me on my successes
- But secretly keeps a mental scorecard of who is more successful



- Tries to show initiative in romantic situations, but is always unsure if he's doing the right thing
- Tends to be wooden and formal when performing dating rituals (Really cause their are awkward as shit and I don't know what to do. Essentially, I force myself to be formal with people I like because I know that mauling them whenever I want isn't really appropriate yet.)
- Would be almost entirely clueless without having read a manual or FAQ beforehand
(which I find EXTREMELY ENDEARING and somewhat funny)
(and gently help to steer him in all the right directions)
(which I can see he greatly - but silently - appreciates)


- Nervously observes my external reactions at all times for clues to success of his initiatives:

IF reaction=expected result of his input

THEN
{
HUGE inward sigh of relief;
congratulate self on successful action, which was of course expected anyway;
continue to step B as planned;
}

ELSE
{
explosive random(panic;anger;irritation;fear;anxiety);
immediate review of possible causes for failure;
mental note of defective parts of plan for future reference;
initiate secondary procedures;
}


- Isn't scared to kill a roach
- Rolls his eyes (slightly) at my illogical squeamishness
- Will adhere to my instructions to use humane methods when despatching the roach (I'd laugh about it though)
(eg. fast, fun flamethrower instead of slow, painful bug spray)
- Will immediately think of ways to prevent future roach problem (even if 3am) (Maybe? Depends on my mood?)



- Is dead serious about the things he is passionate about
- Expects everyone to take these things just as seriously
- Is right about everything -related and he knows it, arguing with him is pointless
- Does not suffer fools lightly (I'm actually getting better at this recently, I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not.)
- Traitors will be marked and remembered till the day he dies (I rarely if ever hold a grudge, but when I do... Let's just say it's a good thing I have stan to tell me when to hold back.)
- Their pleading is not likely to inspire any sympathy, they've had their chance (I has funny stories about this.)



- Will (hopefully) not drag me to godawful noisy clubs and bars till all hours of the morning (Nope, I dunno if this one is type related or not, but I don't like clubs. I've got negative associations. As for bars, why bother? In this situation I'd clearly be in a relationship, why not drink at home?)
- Will think of more "productive" and useful activities to keep us entertained
- Prefers it when it's just the two of us instead of a group (Depends, I have to be kept interested)



(I realise some of these points may not be strictly type-related but maybe at least somewhat common for ESTjs?)




Ok, I guess that's all I can think of for now.



Go ahead, guys, climb into me.

Rioght. So basically I'm going to let you draw your own conclusions. Keeping in mind that some of the things you mentioned may not be type related, and some might be. Some may also be type related in a way that both beta and delta STs can relate. I'm not really concerned with sorting that crap out right now.

[Solidad]

Lock away the women and children. It's time.

lol!

How about I will just consider you as subtype "smartass" to type XXXX



Ok, I have to get the hell off-line before I get fired for becoming sucked into socionics forum vortex.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Ok, I have to get the hell off-line before I get fired for becoming sucked into socionics forum vortex.

haha, i've thought this too for myself at times.

[crazedrat]

you people are wrong and stupid.

[munenori2]

crazedrat sounds like a member of the axis of anarchy

[jessica129]

I was so right about this guy.

[UDP]

I was so right about this guy.

mhm

[Galen]

you people are wrong and stupid.

the synopsis of every thread on 16t

[silverchris9]

you people are wrong and stupid.

I know you are, but what am I? *said in a late elementary school/early middle school tone*

[crazedrat]

I could put a ton of energy into basically saying that simple line.

[silverchris9]

I could put a ton of energy into basically saying that simple line.

All complicated things can be said in simple ways, and vice versa.

I imagined a response to the post just like your response with the same comeback when I first saw it. Ni at work, boys and girls. That and/or silverchris is ILI which I doubt but still it would be awesome.

I still find myself too emotive and Fe to be ILI. But I do get along very well with ILIs, in my experience. And while I think that I fit better as semi-duals with my little brother (SEE) than duals, it would be cool to say I grew up with a dual. But yeah, Ni power.

[Brilliand]

All complicated things can be said in simple ways, and vice versa.

Depending on the words that have already been made...

Y'know, I could mean something very complicated by just saying "Ebvip." But I don't think that that would count, since no one else knows the word.

In other words, for every concept, there exists potentially some language in which it can be expressed in a single theorem. (I'm agreeing with you, but adding qualifiers.)

[Marie84]

- Is dead serious about the things he is passionate about
- Expects everyone to take these things just as seriously
- Is right about everything -related and he knows it, arguing with him is pointless
- Does not suffer fools lightly
- Traitors will be marked and remembered till the day he dies
- Their pleading is not likely to inspire any sympathy, they've had their chance

You'd probably love my LSI dad

[Shagbag The Wizard]

OH. MY. GAWD.


It's like a fucking orgy in here.

I should've known THIS would happen, lol.


*sigh*


Ok, ok, ok. Everyone. Stop.


A few comments, please.



1. You guys took this way, WAY too literally and too seriously.

And this was clearly my own fault.
I should have expected this and tried to be more serious with less attempts at humour.
Fine, my bad. Sincerest apologies.

My Fe injections are consistently throwing everyone off the tracks apparently.





2. My writing style has always been more vivid than my personal interaction style, and this is clearly causing too much confusion.

So, I am sorry. I need to make more of an attempt to tone down the humour and just say exactly what I'm thinking without the embellishments, as I would probably say it IRL.




3. I've tried to explain to everyone several times now that using Fe as a TOOL is well within EII parameters. I quoted Wikisocion on this, so I'm not pulling this out of my ass or trying to put an EII twist on a non-EII type.


I'm not Fe all the time. I usually only use it in 'social' situations (like this forum) to try and break tensions between people and keep things calm, which I find more productive. INFjs cannot stand tense vibes between people, unless I'm totally mistaken.

(EIIs, some support here would be appreciated).





4. @Cyclops, I'm not a fake account or some former member fucking with you guys, so can we drop that right now, thanks.




5. I should have prefaced all of this by admitting that I don't believe I have had very much LSE contact in my life, so what little I know of them is gathered from various sources of info and memories of 'possible' LSEs in the past, but obviously this is pure speculation. I have a mental picture of what I kind of expect them to be like, so maybe this was simply THE WRONG TIME for a post like this.

Again, stupid, stupid mistake on my part.

Clearly, I have a lot to learn about LSEs before I can make any more comments on them.




6. In response to people insisting I am beta IEI.


Ok, I do understand and appreciate why you are thinking this, please don't think I'm dismissing you guys out of hand.

It just amuses me that people think I have not carefully considered all of this.


By now, I have read every single socionic profile on every socionic website I could find, believe me. Yeah, I'm not an expert, strictly speaking, but I am not completely ignorant of the types. I think I do have a fairly competent overall idea of each one, some more than others.


IEI profiles have NEVER described me well at all, whereas EII profiles have always been spot on. I think I can read a profile and know whether it describes me or not, it's not rocket science for godsake. There are only 16 basic types after all, can it really be THAT DIFFICULT to know if I am one or the other??


If profiles are completely unreliable typing tools, please tell me why because I obviously missed the train on that one.




7. Back in the MBTI days, every test I did typed me as INFJ, which presumably corresponds at least roughly to socionic EIIs??





8. Also, I guess I need to tell everyone, last year I lived for 8 entire months with 2 confirmed IEIs (you'll just have to take my word for it or bugger off, but I have tested them several times to be sure, and moreover they fit the profiles virtually to the letter, so take it or leave it).

(MBTI tests consistently typed them as INFPs, if anyone here cares to take that as additional evidence.)


They are definitely Beta (IMO, ofc), and definitely Ni / Fe egos. In fact, they are the most extreme examples of these functions I have ever seen, they could hardly be mistaken for anything else, even by a noob.


Now. My time with these IEIs was a time of extreme highs and suicidal lows. Overall, I did not gel with them. Their way of thinking, talking and behaving was completely foreign to me and required massive adjustments on my part to accommodate / harmonize with them (again, typical EII behaviour), and frankly this was psychologically VERY exhausting.


There were SOME very good times, and I still love them both to pieces, but I was genuinely RELIEVED to finally leave them.


I had a very hard time fitting into their 'groove' and social pattern. They were unstable, unpredictable, COMPLETELY AND UNRELENTINGLY IRRATIONAL, almost totally incapable of taking care of their basic needs and daily chores, and shockingly incompetent in financial matters. This was very annoying to put up with. In short, they were entirely the opposite of me in too many ways to list. They lived in a permanent dream world of abstract ideas that seemed sweet but totally inane and impractical to me. I really, REALLY struggled to integrate myself into their little niche.

I'll be damned if I'm anything like them. Really. How much of an "expert" do I have to be to recognise that I am DEFINITELY NOT A CERTAIN TYPE.


I do think that after 8 months, quite a lot of their Fe has rubbed off on me. I was a very different, more outgoing person after I left them, a lot of people even remarked on this. What can I say, my psyche was forced to adapt under extreme circumstances. Some info elements (eg. Fe+Se) were maybe boosted as some kind of survival mechanism.

There were definite moments of enlightenment very early on in my time with them where I realised I was too weak to deal with them and needed to toughen up or perish.



So guys, is it too much for you to swallow that I'm an EII with well-developed (or simply fucked up) Fe? (Same goes for Se).



I'm 26 years old. Life has moulded and shaped me a bit, I think. Not everyone fits into a neat little box.

Again, this comes back to my original goal stated on this forum, which is to demonstrate the difference between inherent nature and acquired persona.





Don't take this the wrong way, but I get the distinct impression that too many people on here are too jaded and too set in their ways, and the fact that I'm not fitting their neat little conceptions of an EII is too disturbing to them. It's far easier to label me a noob imbecile than be forced to rethink their understanding of socionics.



And yeah, I probably am a noob imbecile and wrong about everything. Maybe. But maybe not. I have already accepted this possibility and stated this numerous times. I will change my type if I need to. But so far I don't think people know me well enough. I think people jumped to conclusions after superficially reading only a few of my posts.


I ask everyone to be patient and hear what else I have to say.

I still have some more ideas to put forward in defense of EII.


If I'm still wrong after all that.......well, I guess we'll see. I will change if I need to.




Thanks, I'm done. :wink:

[Creepy-Cyclops]

lol, this happens often, someone appears sure of their type etc, stands by it, then starts to doubt it, then eventually changes it, and moves around the quadras for a while.

[UDP]

,

6. In response to people insisting I am beta IEI.


Ok, I do understand and appreciate why you are thinking this, please don't think I'm dismissing you guys out of hand.

It just amuses me that people think I have not carefully considered all of this.


By now, I have read every single socionic profile on every socionic website I could find, believe me. Yeah, I'm not an expert, strictly speaking, but I am not completely ignorant of the types. I think I do have a fairly competent overall idea of each one, some more than others.

But that's just it, reading profiles isn't enough.
I don't doubt you've read them, but reading and understanding are two different things. Besides, not all profiles are of the same caliber, and even then, profiles are just one person's vision of something else. I think you may need more experience actually looking at what the types are in reality and looking at what kind of people you relate more to than others.

Again, I do think you've considered such, but, I'm not sure / am getting mixed signals from you that you've correctly identified what certain elements are / what they are like in different functional slots.

IEI profiles have NEVER described me well at all, whereas EII profiles have always been spot on. I think I can read a profile and know whether it describes me or not, it's not rocket science for godsake. There are only 16 basic types after all, can it really be THAT DIFFICULT to know if I am one or the other??

Absolutely. Also, it's kind of strange that an EII profile would describe you so well, and an IEI wouldn't describe you, at all. Quasi identicles are not conflictors, you know.

If profiles are completely unreliable typing tools, please tell me why because I obviously missed the train on that one.

You apparently did miss that train. It's not uncommon to miss it, though. I missed it myself at first. They aren't totally unreliable, but, they present a lot of holes. It's all very textbookish, as well. Profiles are a lot like what you criticize below, very boxed representations of things.

7. Back in the MBTI days, every test I did typed me as INFJ, which presumably corresponds at least roughly to socionic EIIs??

Somewhat of a "trend" is that you "switch" the last letter, so, it has been typical to say that INFJ = INFp/IEI in socionics. I don't particularly think there is a necessary correlation. But don't assume because you're INFJ in MBTI that it means you must be EII in socionics.

8. Also, I guess I need to tell everyone, last year I lived for 8 entire months with 2 confirmed IEIs (you'll just have to take my word for it or bugger off, but I have tested them several times to be sure, and moreover they fit the profiles virtually to the letter, so take it or leave it).

(MBTI tests consistently typed them as INFPs, if anyone here cares to take that as additional evidence.)


They are definitely Beta (IMO, ofc), and definitely Ni / Fe egos. In fact, they are the most extreme examples of these functions I have ever seen, they could hardly be mistaken for anything else, even by a noob.


Now. My time with these IEIs was a time of extreme highs and suicidal lows. Overall, I did not gel with them. Their way of thinking, talking and behaving was completely foreign to me and required massive adjustments on my part to accommodate / harmonize with them (again, typical EII behaviour), and frankly this was psychologically VERY exhausting.

Would you say you've put a lot of effort into accomodating them?

I had a very hard time fitting into their 'groove' and social pattern. They were unstable, unpredictable, COMPLETELY AND UNRELENTINGLY IRRATIONAL, almost totally incapable of taking care of their basic needs and daily chores, and shockingly incompetent in financial matters. This was very annoying to put up with. In short, they were entirely the opposite of me in too many ways to list. They lived in a permanent dream world of abstract ideas that seemed sweet but totally inane and impractical to me. I really, REALLY struggled to integrate myself into their little niche.

I'll be damned if I'm anything like them. Really. How much of an "expert" do I have to be to recognise that I am DEFINITELY NOT A CERTAIN TYPE.

Have you considered that they were more or less losers, and there could be better people of that type (or beta NFs) that you'd relate to more?

I do think that after 8 months, quite a lot of their Fe has rubbed off on me. I was a very different, more outgoing person after I left them, a lot of people even remarked on this. What can I say, my psyche was forced to adapt under extreme circumstances. Some info elements (eg. Fe+Se) were maybe boosted as some kind of survival mechanism.

There were definite moments of enlightenment very early on in my time with them where I realised I was too weak to deal with them and needed to toughen up or perish.



So guys, is it too much for you to swallow that I'm an EII with well-developed (or simply fucked up) Fe? (Same goes for Se).



I'm 26 years old. Life has moulded and shaped me a bit, I think. Not everyone fits into a neat little box.

Again, this comes back to my original goal stated on this forum, which is to demonstrate the difference between inherent nature and acquired persona.

What I still don't really get is why you are so attached to being an EII, and not being an IEI. I almost wonder if you have a somewhat negative opinion of them.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I get the distinct impression that too many people on here are too jaded and too set in their ways, and the fact that I'm not fitting their neat little conceptions of an EII is too disturbing to them. It's far easier to label me a noob imbecile than be forced to rethink their understanding of socionics.


And yeah, I probably am a noob imbecile and wrong about everything. Maybe. But maybe not. I have already accepted this possibility and stated this numerous times. I will change my type if I need to. But so far I don't think people know me well enough. I think people jumped to conclusions after superficially reading only a few of my posts.


I ask everyone to be patient and hear what else I have to say.

I still have some more ideas to put forward in defense of EII.


If I'm still wrong after all that.......well, I guess we'll see. I will change if I need to.




Thanks, I'm done. :wink:

Fair enough.
I'm just as concerned with how you say things, as opposed to just what you say. But I have empathy for people who feel like other people are trying to type them without getting to know them - I've had plenty of that.

I'll see if you're up for talking on AIM or something like that.

[Shagbag The Wizard]

@Cyclops: honestly, when I first arrived here last week, the feeding frenzy was a bit much for me to handle. I actually did consider leaving, as it was kind of stressful and I wasn't sure if I had the stamina to deal with everyone's accusations etc.

You guys made me panic a bit and I did in fact go back that same night and frantically re-read every profile I had saved on my HDD. EII was once again the only one that resembled me in any substantial way. Since then, I'm a bit more confident that I'm still EII in spite of the accusations otherwise, and I'm trying to patiently show everyone why this is the case.


I still don't feel like anyone's given me enough of a reason to change my type or quadra, though I am carefully listening.


I'm hoping that over time, the general vibe / trend of my posts as a whole will start to look more recognisably INFj, and people will see the Fe/Se embellishments for what they are.








@Ryu: I know that profiles aren't perfect. This is why I insisted on reading several versions of each from as many sites as I could find. I did immediately suspect there'd be some holes and inconsistencies in any single profile. Some of the "traits" described in some profiles sounded more like acquired/persona traits rather than inborn type traits, which made me take them with a pinch of salt.

Believe me, I have taken note of these problems, which is why I wanted to get a more general consensus by reading different versions. So with that being said and done and taken into account, I think I do have a fairly good 'general idea' of the types.


In fact, I think I'm way more open to variations and 'rogue representatives' within each type than many people on here seem to be, lol.

I think you may need more experience actually looking at what the types are in reality and looking at what kind of people you relate more to than others.

This is true. I think it's true for everyone here.

Also, it's kind of strange that an EII profile would describe you so well, and an IEI wouldn't describe you, at all.

Of course there are similarities, I realise that, but there are also differences, some subtle and not so subtle. Surely I am the most capable person right now of knowing what applies to me or not?

But don't assume because you're INFJ in MBTI that it means you must be EII in socionics.

Don't worry, I chucked MBTI right out the window as soon as I discovered socionics, lol.

For a while I actually thought I was ESI, but over time I realised that EII was more consistent, taking into consideration not only profiles but also info element and function block descriptions, as well as relationships with other types I had tested and confirmed, starting with family members (again, "confirmed" in socionics meaning 85-99% probability).

Would you say you've put a lot of effort into accomodating them?

Yes, it was gruelling, especially in the beginning. Later on, I was so psychologically bruised that I kind of went numb and stopped caring, and decided to just go with their crazy flow, which helped me to suddenly get along with them but at the horrible cost of losing my sense of self in the chaos.

Btw, they weren't jerks. They are great guys in their own way and I don't hate or resent them. But our approach to life was completely incompatible.

What I still don't really get is why you are so attached to being an EII, and not being an IEI. I almost wonder if you have a somewhat negative opinion of them.

No, I'm being very honest and unbiased when I say that I see very, very little of myself in IEI profiles and function/relationship decrips.

I'll see if you're up for talking on AIM or something like that.

I think that's a good idea. In a more 'normal' conversation my type may start to come through more clearly.

I don't have AIM though, and my MSN has been refusing to log on recently.


You LSEs are supposed to be good at solving problems, though, aren't you?

[Shagbag The Wizard]

Are you a Fe-ego? No idea. But your lack of understanding of Fe means we can't trust your self-typing.

My understanding of Fe comes mainly from Wikisocion. In fact, since your initial accusations I have gone back to read those definitions over and over, so I am trying to see your POV.


My main understanding thus far is that Fe is about the ability to recognise and affect the emotional states of others, and the ability to outwardly express one's feelings or emotional state, as well as inspire this in others.

If that is true, then I think it can manifest in a number of ways, and phrasing posts in a joking, light-hearted way seems to be one possibility, according to what people seem to be saying on here.

But then maybe the real question is: does Fe seem to be my leading function or is it lower down?

Maybe people are not looking hard enough at my real intentions. Maybe they are looking more at my METHODS and jumping to conclusions on that basis.

Wikisocion is probably partly to blame for giving us lists of words and speech peculiarities typical of each type. I think that this can cause confusion if taken too literally. Any type can and does use any word and type of expression depending on the circumstance.



As for Fi, here is the Wikisocion descrip:

Types with valued Fi strive to make and maintain close, personal relationships with their friends and family. They value sensitivity to others' feelings, and occasionally will make their innermost feelings and sentiments known in order to test the possibility of creating closeness with others.

I don't think it's too difficult to see that this is what I've been doing all along, testing the waters to see how people react to me. So far I've 'officially' made friends with only 2 people on here who I feel have accepted me in a positive way and made me feel comfortable.


To me it seems there is a very fine line between Fe and Fi. Both are very highly aware of feelings, the main difference seeming to be that Fe is more concerned with recognising and controlling emotional states in self and others, and Fi more concerned with recognising and controlling relationships (emotional states only being one dimension or aspect of this).

I.e. Fe sees the emotional experience as more important, and relationships being an aspect of the emotional experience.

Fi sees relationships as more important, with emotions being an aspect of the relational experience.


Correct me if I'm wrong.