Napoleon Bonaparte

[1981slater]

http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Napoleon

All this suggests creative and tehrefore polr
So, he was either ESTp or ENTp

[Gilly]

SLE has always been my typing of him.

[Ezra]

There's no reason not to dub him SLE. He's probably an ENTJ as well. That makes him a shorter, slightly more politically potent, version of me.

I heard the Russians called the SEE "Napoleon" and now they're reconsidering because they think he's Ti creative, not Ti PoLR.

[1981slater]

I've read somewhere that he made his wife feed him with a spoon, like a mother to his baby, this suggests Napoleon was an ego type.

"Impossible is a word to be found only in the dictionary of fools" base ??

"Music is the voice that tells us that the human race is greater than it knows" ???

"There is no such thing as accident; it is fate misnamed" ????

[Phaedrus]

There's no reason not to dub him SLE. He's probably an ENTJ as well.

Stop spreading false myths. That you are an idiot is not an excuse.

[Ezra]

I've read somewhere that he made his wife feed him with a spoon, like a mother to his baby, this suggests Napoleon was an ego type.

Or a Victim, with a potential Oedipus Complex.

[Ezra]

"Impossible is a word to be found only in the dictionary of fools" base ??

Actually a very good example of a Se-valuing type, particularly Se ego.

"Music is the voice that tells us that the human race is greater than it knows"

A humanistic (in the philosophical meaning of the term) approach to life. Probably means he's Fe-valuing.

"There is no such thing as accident; it is fate misnamed" ????

Yes, Ni-valuing. For some gut reason, reminds me of the kind of thing a Ni DS type (SEE or SLE) would say.

[Expat]

I heard the Russians called the SEE "Napoleon" and now they're reconsidering because they think he's Ti creative, not Ti PoLR.

"Napoleon" was Augusta's original nickname for the SEE; later, some socionists wrote an article making the case that the Corsican Monster was a SLE, and that "Caesar" was a better nickname for SEE.

[Ezra]

"Napoleon" was Augusta's original nickname for the SEE; later, some socionists wrote an article making the case that the Corsican Monster was a SLE, and that "Caesar" was a better nickname for SEE.

Haha, fantastic name.

My favourite Roman leader is still Augustus. Unbeatable for dealing with the people in a practical and realistic way, and for his sheer unsurpassed statesmanship. The only "emperor" between Caesar's reign and the year 117 A.D. who did not meet violent ends.

[Aleksei]

He's the SEE exemplar. I dunno, but to me that seems like a somewhat reliable indication he is an SEE.

[Gilly]

No. SLE.

[Logos]

No. SLE.

Yep.

[Jimbean]

My guess would be SLE.

[1981slater]

My guess would be SLE.

I concur with it

[The Martrix]

“Strategy is the art of making use of time and space. I am less concerned about the latter than the former. Space we can recover, lost time never.” - Napoleon

If there is any quote which sums up Napoleon for me, it is this quote. It demonstrates a confidence in , and a dire need of .

[Ainfigur]

I read a book on napoleon recently that described him in his youth as a bitter quiet angry loner type person, who worked his way through the military ranks through sheer aptitude (being a Corsican in the french military).

[Whoobie77]

“Strategy is the art of making use of time and space. I am less concerned about the latter than the former. Space we can recover, lost time never.” - Napoleon

If there is any quote which sums up Napoleon for me, it is this quote. It demonstrates a confidence in , and a dire need of .

Wrong. Ni manifests differently in Ejs who have it as their creative than Ips who have it as their base.

From Stratiyevskaya's portrait of ENTjs:

"The LIE hates periods of forced idleness that are due to reasons that do not depend on him: this literally knocks him of the track."

"Sluggishness, in all its manifestations, is irritating to him"

"LIE can’t stand having to wait"

INxps flow with time, ENxjs try to manipulate it.

Imo, Napoleon's greatest failure, his invasion of Russia, showed his weak sensing. He was unable to realistically assess how harsh the environment would be (Se) or to take into account the physical needs of his soldiers (Si). I doubt a lead sensor of any sort would make these foolish mistakes.

In fact, his need to conquer the whole Earth, to have all the space, seems to me to be the Se hidden agenda at work (I think Hit ler, possible ENFj, had a similar problem). One cannot simply merge with the environment in the way a lead Se would; one must monopolize on it.

As for him being Te dominant, from his Wikipedia page:

He had a "photographic memory" for facts, people, events, numbers, military units, and maps. He devoured statistical information and reports, memorized maps, and had a perfect recall of a fantastic stock of information. He understood military technology, but was not an innovator in that regard.He was an innovator in using the financial, bureaucratic, and diplomatic resources of France. He could quickly organize and integrate all that information, generating brilliant insights on complex situations. He could organize his own thoughts and rapidly dictate a series of complex commands to all his subordinates, keeping in mind where each major unit was expected to be at every future point, and like a chess master, "seeing" the best plays many moves ahead.

To me, that sounds nothing at all like a thinking-on-the-fly Beta ST or a Te-deficient Gamma SF.

For me, he's the prototypical ENTj.

[The Martrix]

Wrong. Ni manifests differently in Ejs who have it as their creative than Ips who have it as their base.

From Stratiyevskaya's portrait of ENTjs:

"The LIE hates periods of forced idleness that are due to reasons that do not depend on him: this literally knocks him of the track."

"Sluggishness, in all its manifestations, is irritating to him"

"LIE can’t stand having to wait"

INxps flow with time, ENxjs try to manipulate it.

Imo, Napoleon's greatest failure, his invasion of Russia, showed his weak sensing. He was unable to realistically assess how harsh the environment would be (Se) or to take into account the physical needs of his soldiers (Si). I doubt a lead sensor of any sort would make these foolish mistakes.

In fact, his need to conquer the whole Earth, to have all the space, seems to me to be the Se hidden agenda at work (I think Hit ler, possible ENFj, had a similar problem). One cannot simply merge with the environment in the way a lead Se would; one must monopolize on it.

As for him being Te dominant, from his Wikipedia page:

He had a "photographic memory" for facts, people, events, numbers, military units, and maps. He devoured statistical information and reports, memorized maps, and had a perfect recall of a fantastic stock of information. He understood military technology, but was not an innovator in that regard.He was an innovator in using the financial, bureaucratic, and diplomatic resources of France. He could quickly organize and integrate all that information, generating brilliant insights on complex situations. He could organize his own thoughts and rapidly dictate a series of complex commands to all his subordinates, keeping in mind where each major unit was expected to be at every future point, and like a chess master, "seeing" the best plays many moves ahead.

To me, that sounds nothing at all like a thinking-on-the-fly Beta ST or a Te-deficient Gamma SF.

For me, he's the prototypical ENTj.

I think you are right! Having read his biography, and several campaign books in detail, I thought ENTj. Seeing ESTp for him, I was perplexed. Then I read the arguments, and allowed myself to be swayed. It's funny how many different ways you can understand a person, and with Vortical Synergetic cognition, it's too easy to change one's mind.

[Whoobie77]

Having read his biography, and several campaign books in detail

Argument from authority much? Granted, I did the same thing by bringing up Stratiyevskaya...but the "language-game" of Socionics kind of mandates we defer to the "experts". That's a whole other problem entirely.

You haven't made an argument, all you've done is just say "You're stupid. I understand Napoleon better than you "

[The Martrix]

Argument from authority much? Granted, I did the same thing by bringing up Stratiyevskaya...but the "language-game" of Socionics kind of mandates we defer to the "experts". That's a whole other problem entirely.

You haven't made an argument, all you've done is just say "You're stupid. I understand Napoleon better than you "

Nooo! I'm stupid! And easily swayed. I'm kicking myself right now. Your insight on Napoleon is astute.

His Se hidden agenda is obvious. This obsession with "strength" and "force" as a solution, he shared with Hit-ler (also Se-HA). Something ENTjs and ENFjs seem to share is, they want to get out of their heads and use their hands. They must DO because thought is death. Se for him, was the coup de grâce.

If anything, Napoleon's invasion of Russia in 1812 shows an impatience and neglect for details. He underestimated the practical problems he would face, and overestimated his army's strength to deal with these problems. Si-PoLR.

[Singu]

Is he typed ESTp in Socionics circles now? That makes more sense... since he was so Aristocratic and donned himself so extravagantly.

[Wildelita]

I believe that he was SLE. I don't believe in creative Fi or vulnerable Ti( just compare him with Pushkin) but I do believe in opposite. I also think Josephine was IEI.

[Jake]

Yes SLE

[Delilah]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...Malmaison2.jpg

this is an interesting painting; he seemed rather likeable.

[Singu]

"If for SLE leadership is a strategic calculation, where any limitations of his ambitions are perceived as a hostile move, then SEE, in contrast to SLE, fights not for the assertion of his own ambitions, but for the right to justify the confidence entrusted to him."

"With all of his exceptional talents the SEE is more likely to be a destroyer rather than creator. In politics the SEE is the destroyer of totalitarian and authoritarian systems. In this the SEE is a daring innovator, who subverts previously existing forms."

"The discrepancy of "volitional sensing" of SEE lies in the very democratism of his autocracy. The SEE sincerely hates tyranny and despotism. He is one of those people whose name gets written "on the fragments of autocracy" of another leader. By all means possible, the SEE attempts to not be inferior in the extent and breadth of his influence. Acknowledging his own defeat in this sense is especially agonizing to him. Attempting to hold onto his influence and authority at any cost frequently leads the SEE to behave in desperate and contradictory ways, that for him or her often have tragic consequences."

http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?t...Stratiyevskaya

[noaydi]

I was thinking SLE, but Ive seen some typing him SEE ?

[The Reality Denialist]

I seriously think that SLE's are not so interested in expansion as SEE's are. After all SLE is more dependent on communal values. To be some sort of greater father figure or something.

[Not A Communist Shill]

LSE. PoLR is Russia.

(I have no problem with SLE. However, if he took the MBTI, he would probably score as a strong introvert.)

[noaydi]

You really think Napoleon was LSE ? lol

[FDG]

Why do you think SLE?

[Marep]

I can hardly see him as Ni inferior honestly.
He was very much LIE imho.

[Number 9 large]

According to socionists hes SEE

[Marep]

According to socionists hes SEE

In what ways can being Ni inferior help with strategies and predicting your opponent's moves exactly?

[Number 9 large]

In what ways can being Ni inferior help with strategies and predicting your opponent's moves exactly?

Not much. Now the question is do we need Ni to become a commander

[Beautiful sky]

SEE

[FDG]

In what ways can being Ni inferior help with strategies and predicting your opponent's moves exactly?

Any type can be smart

[Beautiful sky]

The problem is the SEE needs to gather his forces. The "program" function of SEE, +Se, like any Asking type program is prone to dispersal, splintering, differentiation which cannot, in its initial stages, oppose the united and "monolithic" power of the SLE. Zhukov's "program" will strategically opposite its unification and won't allow it to mobilize for a decisive blow. (Let's recall how many years it took Russian to become free from the Mongol-Tatar yoke, in which conditions it had to exist, and how frequently any opposing coalitions gathered by Russian rulers have been subverted and destroyed when they tried to unite to repel the Horde - every one of their attempts was brutally suppressed by ever increasing intimidation.)

[Kill4Me]

SLE-Se 8w7 so/sp

SeTi makes him a natural at warfare. He was also a brilliant strategist and noted for intellectual prowess like Alexander the Great (though both were primarily action-oriented and only used ideas instrumentally)....Napoleon and Alexander the Great always viewed themselves as men of action. so there's capacity for clear-headed, logical planning and hard-headed data collection (Ti-creative). Ti-creative doesn't make for a genuine theorist but merely grinds ideas down for its strategic/tactical value. Action/energy is the lead. The difference between Ti-lead and Ti-creative is that Ti-creative is only capable of formulating aggressive strategies....so it only has strategic value in an aggressive context.

No Fi in his ego block as his people skills were weak. Good people skills would make him high in cooperativeness and give him a preference for moving towards others. SeTi expansion moves against others and SeFi expansion moves towards others.

Napoleon was set on climbing his way to the top of the mountain. This goes more to enneagram -- his core strategy is dominance....there's no discernible end for his drive to the top of the mountain....being the 800 pound gorilla was the end in itself and Napoleon loved power. Exercising power and prevailing over others (Waging War) was clearly his area of fixation, and more signifcantly, something he had an innate sense for. Because he is also SLE, his cognition engages in the most direct form of waging war (violence, fighting) against competitors as the path through which to get to the top of the mountain and reign supreme...."killing the competition.." Griselda Blanco (SLE-Se 8w7 sx/so) same thing but in the context of drug cartels and also a brilliant aggressive strategist but not as willful as Napoleon. Neverthless, same end result, being at war with everyone not for any ulterior motive, just simply to be the only one at the top. Huey Long and Carmine Galante both SLE-Ti 8w7 so/sp same thing. In contrast, SEE doesn't take quite the confrontational approach to statecraft that SLE does, because they are not comfortable with negativism, so their path to the top not so hard and lusty.

As for LIE, I shall pass over that in silence, except to state that numerous of Napoleon's feats and moves defy the dispassionate cost-benefit calculations of Te/Ni cognition. Te/Ni power drive doesn't break structure, doesn't break form or end up running through walls...Nap can only stay within a structured, organized, predictable life only so long before he is back out gambling for more power on the next big monumental showdown on the worldstage....his "Daring to the point of dementia" draws a fine but clear line between SLE and LIE as well as EIE and LIE.

But take Mussolini an EIE-Fe 6w5 so/sp...in contrast to Napoleon, Mussolini's rise to power didn't feature any unique strategic or tactical intelligence but a capacity for working crowds up into a frenzy...same as ****** (EIE-Fe 1w9 so/sp). Napoleon had no special emotional faculty through which he could relate with his people but established his leadership through superior fortitude on the battlefield and overall iron will.

[Beautiful sky]

SLE-Se 8w7 so/sp

SeTi makes him a natural at warfare. He was also a brilliant strategist and noted for intellectual prowess like Alexander the Great (though both were primarily action-oriented and only used ideas instrumentally)....Napoleon and Alexander the Great always viewed themselves as men of action. so there's capacity for clear-headed, logical planning and hard-headed data collection (Ti-creative). Ti-creative doesn't make for a genuine theorist but merely grinds ideas down for its strategic/tactical value. Action/energy is the lead. The difference between Ti-lead and Ti-creative is that Ti-creative is only capable of formulating aggressive strategies....so it only has strategic value in an aggressive context.

No Fi in his ego block as his people skills were weak. Good people skills would make him high in cooperativeness and give him a preference for moving towards others. SeTi expansion moves against others and SeFi expansion moves towards others.

Take Mussolini an EIE-Fe 6w5 so/sp...in contrast to Napoleon, Mussolini's rise to power didn't feature any unique strategic or tactical intelligence but a capacity for working crowds up into a frenzy...same as ****** (EIE-Fe 1w9 so/sp). Napoleon had no special emotional faculty through which he could relate with his people but established his power through superior fortitude on the battlefield.

Napoleon was set on climbing his way to the top of the mountain. This goes more to enneagram -- his core strategy is dominance....there's no discernible end for his drive to the top of the mountain....it was the end in itself and Napoleon loved power. Exercising power and prevailing over others (Waging War) was clearly his area of fixation, and more signifcantly, something he had an innate sense for. Because he is also SLE, his cognition engages in the most direct form of waging war (violence, fighting) against competitors as the path through which to get to the top of the mountain and reign supreme...."killing the competition.." Griselda Blanco (SLE-Se 8w7 sx/so) same thing but in the context of drug cartels and also a brilliant aggressive strategist but not as willful as Napoleon. Neverthless, same end result, being at war with everyone not for any ulterior motive, just simply to be the only one at the top. Huey Long and Carmine Galante both SLE-Ti 8w7 so/sp same thing. In contrast, SEE doesn't take quite the confrontational approach to statecraft that SLE does, because they are not comfortable with negativism, so their path to the top not so hard and lusty.

As for LIE, I shall pass over that in silence, except to state that numerous of Napoleon's feats and moves defy the dispassionate cost-benefit calculations of Te/Ni cognition. "Daring to the point of dementia" draws a fine but clear line between SLE and LIE.

He was actually romantic and emotional. Do you read background stories prior to typing???

[Kill4Me]

Ti-Polr for Napoleon only works in fake socionics….Ti-Polr is an absolute impossibility.