Napoleon Bonaparte

[Finaplex]

Goes into Russia just before just winter hits.... in the end he was defeated by bad Te choices.

[Finaplex]

I seriously think that SLE's are not so interested in expansion as SEE's are. After all SLE is more dependent on communal values. To be some sort of greater father figure or something.

Expansive, yet not expansional.

[Makuta]

SLE , Sure Beta . read talanov . he is far too cold for an SEE.

[Kill4Me]

don't forget that Napoleon's character and personality formed the basis for the character of Michael Corleone in Godfathers part I and II...

[khcs]

Coronation of Napoleon



Consecration Emperor Napoleon Bonaparte and Josephine 1807

[roger557]

pig

[Breather]

Overrated

[khcs]

Napoleon Bonaparte - The Gambler

[hellohellohello]

Just watched the movie and I'd challenge the common SLE typing and put forth an SEE typing. Ethics > Logic seems clear after reading more about him.

"He could charm people when he needed to but could also publicly humiliate them and was known for his rages when his plans were frustrated." Creative Ethics. I'd like to see an SLE pull that ^ off successfully enough to have a whole army back them.

"He wasn't driven by ideology and promoted capable men irrespective of their political and social background, as long as they were loyal." - Gamma > Beta

"As an expert in military matters, he valued technical expertise and listened to the advice of experts in other fields." - SLEs, and Betas in general, are usually self-starters and self-taught, valuing their own understanding of something vs. others. They can be stubborn in this and won't be swayed easily. IEIs/EIEs are like this too and unfortunately for most, it's usually only the SLEs and LSIs that can sway them as they will likely just walk away from the entire conversation... :x

Edit: Now that I'm looking around, I found Augusta also typed him as SEE... whoops. Guess it's not that much of a challenging typing. I wonder why others type him as SLE though

[Not A Communist Shill]

I typed him LSI last time I thought about it. As a child, he seems to have been introverted.

I previously remarked in the chat last year:

'Napoleon was a loner typically. Like ******. It is only when he is meeting his generals to conquer stuff he was "extroverted"'

'I've just been reading a biography of Napoleon. Basically, he was an introvert who wanted law and order over Europe (rational), didn't care much for innovation or following the strategies of past generals. So I currently type him LSI. Basically similar to Putin.'

Wikipedia:
"Napoleon was routinely bullied by his peers for his accent, birthplace, short stature, mannerisms and inability to speak French quickly. He became reserved and melancholy, applying himself to reading. An examiner observed that Napoleon "has always been distinguished for his application in mathematics. He is fairly well acquainted with history and geography ... This boy would make an excellent sailor".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleon

[RaptorsMavs]

ENTJ, big, towering, ambitious, extreme, magnificent

[Distance]

It would take a big shoehorn to make a SEE for him, because they are not an aggressive territory grabber, conqueror, more of marshaling people together for a cause. To befriend in networks for the crusade, and not capable to outline a vision like EIE are able to.

Most are in the service industry in the business world. I'm sure there are exceptions to it where there are outlier interests, though.

The ESFp is the entertainer by the ego drive.

When i think of SEE, i look at Boris Yeltsin or Clinton, not the aggressive tank commanders in any degree.

Bozo the clown was SEE.

My biases at work.

[SacredKnowing]

ENTJ, big, towering, ambitious, extreme, magnificent

One correction: big is ESTj not ENTj. Other than that your post was very good!

[Ikite iru]

IEI

[hellohellohello]

http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.p...SEE_(Napoleon)

He's the archetype for SEEs so y'all need to get your heads on straight and clean up your biases and perceptions.

[Distance]

https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...=1#post1573136

[Kill4Me]

http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.p...SEE_(Napoleon)

He's the archetype for SEEs so y'all need to get your heads on straight and clean up your biases and perceptions.

That doesn't mean anything. Napoleon is not a SEE archetype in American Socionics...

American Socionics beats that fake socionics junk put out by Aushra's lackeys 7 days from Sunday.

Plus, my VI templates speak for itself. There is no way to come out a workable VI breakdown that jusifies SEE for Napoleon

Already buried the Soupman in SLE-SEE debate regards Trump years ago...same basic arguments would have applied as to Napoleon.

[Not A Communist Shill]

http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.p...SEE_(Napoleon)

He's the archetype for SEEs so y'all need to get your heads on straight and clean up your biases and perceptions.

Your bias is that you assume Napoleon was correctly made the archetype for SEE.

SEEs are more likely to be a type that bullies reserved loners that read a lot, rather than be a bullied reserved loner that reads a lot.

[hellohellohello]

Your bias is that you assume Napoleon was correctly made the archetype for SEE.

SEEs are more likely to be a type that bullies reserved loners that read a lot, rather than be a bullied reserved loner that reads a lot.

Well that wouldn't be very ethical of them now would it. Also, coming from the person that 'doesn't believe in Socionics' but is still incredibly active on a Socionics forum... how curious

Also, word to the wise, you can make improvements on systems in your personal life, at work, etc. but once you stray too far away from the foundations you will be lost in the eternal vacuum of space not knowing how to make your way back. So, don't do that.

[Not A Communist Shill]

Well that wouldn't be very ethical of them now would it. Also, coming from the person that 'doesn't believe in Socionics' but is still incredibly active on a Socionics forum... how curious

Also, word to the wise, you can make improvements on systems in your personal life, at work, etc. but once you stray too far away from the foundations you will be lost in the eternal vacuum of space not knowing how to make your way back. So, don't do that.

The thing is, I don't think Napoleon was "ethical" in Socionics or in any sense, nor Agreeable. He was a warmonger responsible for the deaths of millions of people, and had poor relations with most of Europe.

You seem to think that in order to disbelieve in something, somebody must not be familiar with it.

Who cares about the foundations?: if they're false, they're just sand, and should be disregarded, replaced with truth.

[Not A Communist Shill]

@hellohellohello

Napoleon died of a condition related to the stomach, does this mean he was :Ti, or , according to Augusta, this isn't completely clear to me:

Dualized psyche affects on human health, because every element of them not only reflects certain aspects of objective reality, but also controls the body. For each element of the IM are certain meridians and manages system. Systems that are behind the most advanced, leading elements of the IM, the least vulnerable to the disease. First of all get sick of those who are leading a co-player.

According to our hypotheses, the elements are aligned with the meridians of IM as follows:
Ne Posterior median meridian;
Fe The meridians of the stomach and pancreas;
Se The meridians of the bladder and kidneys;
Te The meridians of the gallbladder and liver;
Ni The front middle meridian;
Fi The meridian of the heart and small intestine;
Si Pericardium meridian and three parts of the body;
Ti The meridians of the lungs and colon.

Our observations confirm this hypothesis. For example, the logical extraverts and indeed often suffer from heart, and ethical extroverts - the kidneys, and intuitive extravert - stomach, pancreas, liver.

I think it's saying that each IM is weak in the area of the body aligned with its dual pair, hence does this mean Napoleon was Ti, as stomach is under "Fe The meridians of the stomach and pancreas"? I hope you can bring clarity to Augusta's foundations.

https://wikisocion.github.io/content/dual_nature.html

[hellohellohello]

@hellohellohello

Napoleon died of a condition related to the stomach, does this mean he was :Ti, or , according to Augusta, this isn't completely clear to me:



I think it's saying that each IM is weak in the area of the body aligned with its dual pair, hence does this mean Napoleon was Ti, as stomach is under "Fe The meridians of the stomach and pancreas"? I hope you can bring clarity to Augusta's foundations.

https://wikisocion.github.io/content/dual_nature.html

I mean, technically neither, since he was Se leading and didn't have problems with his bladder/kidneys.

[Ikite iru]

I mean, technically neither, since he was Se leading and didn't have problems with his bladder/kidneys.

dude, what about napoleon being a shy bookworm in his youth do you not understand? geez. do you actually use the thing that's between your ears or do you just mindlessly parrot classical socionics theory? he was not Se base ffs

[Not A Communist Shill]

I mean, technically neither, since he was Se leading and didn't have problems with his bladder/kidneys.

But it was supposedly problems with his stomach that killed him, so from what I understand, that either makes him Ti or Fe according to Augusta (I find it difficult to understand the passage - I don't know if lists each IM strongest area of the body, or its weakest).

[hellohellohello]

dude, what about napoleon being a shy bookworm in his youth do you not understand? geez. do you actually use the thing that's between your ears or do you just mindlessly parrot classical socionics theory? he was not Se base ffs

You do know that Introversion/Extroversion in modern psychology terms do not equate with Socionics Introversion/Extroversion? (Introthyme vs. Extrathyme)

You are again equating behavior with sociotype which are not, and have never been, the same thing. You ever ran into someone who calls themselves an Introvert but they're leading function is clearly Fe? It's a matter of perspective and self-awareness.

[hellohellohello]

But it was supposedly problems with his stomach that killed him, so from what I understand, that either makes him Ti or Fe according to Augusta (I find it difficult to understand the passage - I don't know if lists each IM strongest area of the body, or its weakest).

Supposedly. You are also trying to type someone who lived 200+ years ago and tying his type to what he died from, when doctoral science was not in the slightest as advanced as it was today, or even when Ausra was around. Think about this, stomach ulcers are common today and can be treated, yet Napoleon died from it. I would look a little further if you are truly curious, which I don't think you are. I think you are trying to be a smartass for no good reason other than for your own narrow-minded enjoyment.

[Sol]

I think it's saying that each IM is weak in the area of the body

You take seriously baseless hypothesis just because it was written by Augustinavichiute and rely on it too much.
From adequate theory of Jung types traits it's possibly to suppose types based on behavior, what needs details of what happened.
Alike if symptoms of a disorder were redundatly ignored - that arises chances for N and Se. If it was too dumbly healed by him - chances for F.
For example, in your case of naive trust to baseless nonsense about Jung types and how you are using that nonsense points on higher chance for your F type and least for Te type.

About Napoleon is known alot from biography. If to read a book, to hear lectures and then to generalize a heap of facts, - this may help with his type. But we need there to trust in data be correct. The data can be filtered, where important parts be removed to inspire wished impressions. For example, he could to have serious external help for actions which are assigned strongly to him. Even wide biography data is doubtful for assurance.
Then it's useful to have nonverbal data, where impressions from it would fit to common known behavior. But to use nonverbal data is not totally trusty for painted people, besides it's small data. Some of his pictures could be drawn not directly from him siting near. Even from other people posing. A painter could do own distortions, when set realism below other wishes.
All that adds problems for different types be assumed as possible. To degree, when to suppose types of people who lived long ago, without video interviews - is comparable with a game to suppose types of personages. Even if to use adequate theory and methods, unlike what you did above.

Additional useful data are types of people close to a human. What type was at his wife, how their relations developed. What types were of his closest friends. IR can be added to this game. This needs to know much about him.

There are people who know good some history times and concrete famouses. The easy approach, than to get a heap of data by yourself, would be to give them traits and types descriptions to choose which fit better to that human. In case there is significant interest to decide about someone's type.
Napoleon and those times have huge base of interested people, should to have specialised sites. It's possibly to use their help and can be useful, in case of this concrete human. We know types theory, but have no quality data. They may to have it to decide more correctly.

P. S. Doubtful of Augustinavhichiute ideas about types is doubtful to be related to Socionics, as it's doubtful to be correct. Do not use nonsense hypotheses to do not do mistakes. Evident nonsense and what you can't link reasonably with Jung basic theory.
P.P.S. May be you are joking, by accenting on noticable Augustinavichiute's baseless fantasies and their accented usage. It's not hard task to find alike at her texts. As named yourself before as "Socionics hater". Mistakes in one does not mean mistakes in other, where to understand correct parts needs correctly identify types and correctly to apply the theory.
The same is with Alive (your pal), for who is hard to be assured is it so bad with his head or he is joking here. Having EIE he especially may play.

[Ikite iru]

For example, in your case of naive trust to baseless nonsense about Jung types and how you are using that nonsense points on higher chance for your F type and least for Te type.

your inabillity to see that your tarot reading, ASMR obsessing LSE self-typing is dogshit also points to shit Te by that logic

[Not A Communist Shill]

Supposedly. You are also trying to type someone who lived 200+ years ago and tying his type to what he died from, when doctoral science was not in the slightest as advanced as it was today, or even when Ausra was around. Think about this, stomach ulcers are common today and can be treated, yet Napoleon died from it. I would look a little further if you are truly curious, which I don't think you are. I think you are trying to be a smartass for no good reason other than for your own narrow-minded enjoyment.

Hardly, I don't know of anyone else who is entertaining Augusta's thoughts on Meridians (Chinese medicine), despite it being a key feature of her work and based on her own empirical observations, by her own account.

[Not A Communist Shill]

You take seriously baseless hypothesis just because it was written by Augustinavichiute and rely on it too much.
From adequate theory of Jung types traits it's possibly to suppose types based on behavior, what needs details of what happened.
Alike if symptoms of a disorder were redundatly ignored - that arises chances for N and Se. If it was too dumbly healed by him - chances for F.
For example, in your case of naive trust to baseless nonsense about Jung types and how you are using that nonsense points on higher chance for your F type and least for Te type.

About Napoleon is known alot from biography. If to read a book, to hear lectures and then to generalize a heap of facts, - this may help with his type. But we need there to trust in data be correct. The data can be filtered, where important parts be removed to inspire wished impressions. For example, he could to have serious external help for actions which are assigned strongly to him. Even wide biography data is doubtful for assurance.
Then it's useful to have nonverbal data, where impressions from it would fit to common known behavior. But to use nonverbal data is not totally trusty for painted people, besides it's small data. Some of his pictures could be drawn not directly from him siting near. Even from other people posing. A painter could do own distortions, when set realism below other wishes.
All that adds problems for different types be assumed as possible. To degree, when to suppose types of people who lived long ago, without video interviews - is comparable with a game to suppose types of personages. Even if to use adequate theory and methods, unlike what you did above.

Additional useful data are types of people close to a human. What type was at his wife, how their relations developed. What types were of his closest friends. IR can be added to this game. This needs to know much about him.

There are people who know good some history times and concrete famouses. The easy approach, than to get a heap of data by yourself, would be to give them traits and types descriptions to choose which fit better to that human. In case there is significant interest to decide about someone's type.
Napoleon and those times have huge base of interested people, should to have specialised sites. It's possibly to use their help and can be useful, in case of this concrete human. We know types theory, but have no quality data. They may to have it to decide more correctly.

P. S. Doubtful of Augustinavhichiute ideas about types is doubtful to be related to Socionics, as it's doubtful to be correct. Do not use nonsense hypotheses to do not do mistakes. Evident nonsense and what you can't link reasonably with Jung basic theory.
P.P.S. May be you are joking, by accenting on noticable Augustinavichiute's baseless fantasies and their accented usage. It's not hard task to find alike at her texts. As named yourself before as "Socionics hater". Mistakes in one does not mean mistakes in other, where to understand correct parts needs correctly identify types and correctly to apply the theory.
The same is with Alive (your pal), for who is hard to be assured is it so bad with his head or he is joking here. Having EIE he especially may play.

Augusta claimed that her writings on Socionics and Meridians were based on her empirical observations, if you doubt one you ought to doubt the other too. People ought doubt all claims regardless, rather than accept them as an essential, true, part of Socionics simply because she claimed it to be true.

[hellohellohello]

Revisiting this. Ausra's hypotheses on the meridians corresponds to the 12 meridians of acupuncture. Napoleon, if SEE, contains -Ni, -Te, -Si, & -Fe. Which correspond to the Conception vessel (extraordinary meridian so controls all Yin energy (Fi, Si, Ti), Gallbladder, Triple Burner, and Stomach Channels.

Gallbladder Channel: An imbalance in the gallbladder meridian generates more mental afflictions than physical. Such an imbalance to lead to insomnia and stiffness of the muscles. It can also cause poor judgment, timidity, and indecision.

Triple Burner Channel: When out of balance, disorders with the sense organs and side of the head can occur.

Stomach Channel: An imbalance with the stomach meridian will cause energetic deficiencies across the Meridian System. It can also cause mania, confusion, or anxiety.

[misanthropex6]

SEE as clear as day
the one played by Joaquin Phoenix from the recent namesake movie is probably EIE