http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Napoleon
All this suggests creative and tehrefore polr
So, he was either ESTp or ENTp
http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Napoleon
All this suggests creative and tehrefore polr
So, he was either ESTp or ENTp
ILE "Searcher"
Socionics: ENTp
DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
Astrological sign: Aquarius
To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.
SLE has always been my typing of him.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
There's no reason not to dub him SLE. He's probably an ENTJ as well. That makes him a shorter, slightly more politically potent, version of me.
I heard the Russians called the SEE "Napoleon" and now they're reconsidering because they think he's Ti creative, not Ti PoLR.
I've read somewhere that he made his wife feed him with a spoon, like a mother to his baby, this suggests Napoleon was an ego type.
"Impossible is a word to be found only in the dictionary of fools" base ??
"Music is the voice that tells us that the human race is greater than it knows" ???
"There is no such thing as accident; it is fate misnamed" ????
ILE "Searcher"
Socionics: ENTp
DCNH: Dominant --> perhaps Normalizing
Enneagram: 7w6 "Enthusiast"
MBTI: ENTJ "Field Marshall" or ENTP "Inventor"
Astrological sign: Aquarius
To learn, read. To know, write. To master, teach.
Actually a very good example of a Se-valuing type, particularly Se ego.
A humanistic (in the philosophical meaning of the term) approach to life. Probably means he's Fe-valuing."Music is the voice that tells us that the human race is greater than it knows"
Yes, Ni-valuing. For some gut reason, reminds me of the kind of thing a Ni DS type (SEE or SLE) would say."There is no such thing as accident; it is fate misnamed" ????
Haha, fantastic name.
My favourite Roman leader is still Augustus. Unbeatable for dealing with the people in a practical and realistic way, and for his sheer unsurpassed statesmanship. The only "emperor" between Caesar's reign and the year 117 A.D. who did not meet violent ends.
He's the SEE exemplar. I dunno, but to me that seems like a somewhat reliable indication he is an SEE.
What do these signs mean—, , etc.? Why cannot socionists use symbols Ne, Ni etc. as in MBTI? Just because they have somewhat different meaning. Socionics and MBTI, each in its own way, have slightly modified the original Jung's description of his 8 psychological types. For this reason, (Ne) is not exactly the same as Ne in MBTI.
Just one example: in MBTI, Se (extraverted sensing) is associated with life pleasures, excitement etc. By contrast, the socionic function (extraverted sensing) is first and foremost associated with control and expansion of personal space (which sometimes can manifest in excessive aagression, but often also manifests in a capability of managing lots of people and things).
For this reason, we consider comparison between MBTI types and socionic types by functions to be rather useless than useful.
-Victor Gulenko, Dmitri Lytov
No. SLE.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
My guess would be SLE.
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
--Theodore Roosevelt
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
-- Mark Twain
"Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in."
-- Confucius
“Strategy is the art of making use of time and space. I am less concerned about the latter than the former. Space we can recover, lost time never.” - Napoleon
If there is any quote which sums up Napoleon for me, it is this quote. It demonstrates a confidence in , and a dire need of .
I read a book on napoleon recently that described him in his youth as a bitter quiet angry loner type person, who worked his way through the military ranks through sheer aptitude (being a Corsican in the french military).
Wrong. Ni manifests differently in Ejs who have it as their creative than Ips who have it as their base.
From Stratiyevskaya's portrait of ENTjs:
"The LIE hates periods of forced idleness that are due to reasons that do not depend on him: this literally knocks him of the track."
"Sluggishness, in all its manifestations, is irritating to him"
"LIE can’t stand having to wait"
INxps flow with time, ENxjs try to manipulate it.
Imo, Napoleon's greatest failure, his invasion of Russia, showed his weak sensing. He was unable to realistically assess how harsh the environment would be (Se) or to take into account the physical needs of his soldiers (Si). I doubt a lead sensor of any sort would make these foolish mistakes.
In fact, his need to conquer the whole Earth, to have all the space, seems to me to be the Se hidden agenda at work (I think Hit ler, possible ENFj, had a similar problem). One cannot simply merge with the environment in the way a lead Se would; one must monopolize on it.
As for him being Te dominant, from his Wikipedia page:
He had a "photographic memory" for facts, people, events, numbers, military units, and maps. He devoured statistical information and reports, memorized maps, and had a perfect recall of a fantastic stock of information. He understood military technology, but was not an innovator in that regard.He was an innovator in using the financial, bureaucratic, and diplomatic resources of France. He could quickly organize and integrate all that information, generating brilliant insights on complex situations. He could organize his own thoughts and rapidly dictate a series of complex commands to all his subordinates, keeping in mind where each major unit was expected to be at every future point, and like a chess master, "seeing" the best plays many moves ahead.
To me, that sounds nothing at all like a thinking-on-the-fly Beta ST or a Te-deficient Gamma SF.
For me, he's the prototypical ENTj.
I think you are right! Having read his biography, and several campaign books in detail, I thought ENTj. Seeing ESTp for him, I was perplexed. Then I read the arguments, and allowed myself to be swayed. It's funny how many different ways you can understand a person, and with Vortical Synergetic cognition, it's too easy to change one's mind.
Argument from authority much? Granted, I did the same thing by bringing up Stratiyevskaya...but the "language-game" of Socionics kind of mandates we defer to the "experts". That's a whole other problem entirely.
You haven't made an argument, all you've done is just say "You're stupid. I understand Napoleon better than you "
Nooo! I'm stupid! And easily swayed. I'm kicking myself right now. Your insight on Napoleon is astute.
His Se hidden agenda is obvious. This obsession with "strength" and "force" as a solution, he shared with Hit-ler (also Se-HA). Something ENTjs and ENFjs seem to share is, they want to get out of their heads and use their hands. They must DO because thought is death. Se for him, was the coup de grâce.
If anything, Napoleon's invasion of Russia in 1812 shows an impatience and neglect for details. He underestimated the practical problems he would face, and overestimated his army's strength to deal with these problems. Si-PoLR.
Last edited by The Martrix; 06-19-2014 at 08:35 AM.
Is he typed ESTp in Socionics circles now? That makes more sense... since he was so Aristocratic and donned himself so extravagantly.
I believe that he was SLE. I don't believe in creative Fi or vulnerable Ti( just compare him with Pushkin) but I do believe in opposite. I also think Josephine was IEI.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...Malmaison2.jpg
this is an interesting painting; he seemed rather likeable.
"If for SLE leadership is a strategic calculation, where any limitations of his ambitions are perceived as a hostile move, then SEE, in contrast to SLE, fights not for the assertion of his own ambitions, but for the right to justify the confidence entrusted to him."
"With all of his exceptional talents the SEE is more likely to be a destroyer rather than creator. In politics the SEE is the destroyer of totalitarian and authoritarian systems. In this the SEE is a daring innovator, who subverts previously existing forms."
"The discrepancy of "volitional sensing" of SEE lies in the very democratism of his autocracy. The SEE sincerely hates tyranny and despotism. He is one of those people whose name gets written "on the fragments of autocracy" of another leader. By all means possible, the SEE attempts to not be inferior in the extent and breadth of his influence. Acknowledging his own defeat in this sense is especially agonizing to him. Attempting to hold onto his influence and authority at any cost frequently leads the SEE to behave in desperate and contradictory ways, that for him or her often have tragic consequences."
http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?t...Stratiyevskaya
I was thinking SLE, but Ive seen some typing him SEE ?
I seriously think that SLE's are not so interested in expansion as SEE's are. After all SLE is more dependent on communal values. To be some sort of greater father figure or something.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
LSE. PoLR is Russia.
(I have no problem with SLE. However, if he took the MBTI, he would probably score as a strong introvert.)
Improving your happiness and changing your personality for the better
Jungian theory is not grounded in empirical data (pdf file)
The case against type dynamics (pdf file)
Cautionary comments regarding the MBTI (pdf file)
Reinterpreting the MBTI via the five-factor model (pdf file)
Do the Big Five personality traits interact to predict life outcomes? (pdf file)
The Big Five personality test outperformed the Jungian and Enneagram test in predicting life outcomes
Evidence of correlations between human partners based on systematic reviews and meta-analyses of traits
You really think Napoleon was LSE ? lol
Why do you think SLE?
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
I can hardly see him as Ni inferior honestly.
He was very much LIE imho.
According to socionists hes SEE
SEE
-
Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
The problem is the SEE needs to gather his forces. The "program" function of SEE, +Se, like any Asking type program is prone to dispersal, splintering, differentiation which cannot, in its initial stages, oppose the united and "monolithic" power of the SLE. Zhukov's "program" will strategically opposite its unification and won't allow it to mobilize for a decisive blow. (Let's recall how many years it took Russian to become free from the Mongol-Tatar yoke, in which conditions it had to exist, and how frequently any opposing coalitions gathered by Russian rulers have been subverted and destroyed when they tried to unite to repel the Horde - every one of their attempts was brutally suppressed by ever increasing intimidation.)
-
Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
SLE-Se 8w7 so/sp
SeTi makes him a natural at warfare. He was also a brilliant strategist and noted for intellectual prowess like Alexander the Great (though both were primarily action-oriented and only used ideas instrumentally)....Napoleon and Alexander the Great always viewed themselves as men of action. so there's capacity for clear-headed, logical planning and hard-headed data collection (Ti-creative). Ti-creative doesn't make for a genuine theorist but merely grinds ideas down for its strategic/tactical value. Action/energy is the lead. The difference between Ti-lead and Ti-creative is that Ti-creative is only capable of formulating aggressive strategies....so it only has strategic value in an aggressive context.
No Fi in his ego block as his people skills were weak. Good people skills would make him high in cooperativeness and give him a preference for moving towards others. SeTi expansion moves against others and SeFi expansion moves towards others.
Napoleon was set on climbing his way to the top of the mountain. This goes more to enneagram -- his core strategy is dominance....there's no discernible end for his drive to the top of the mountain....being the 800 pound gorilla was the end in itself and Napoleon loved power. Exercising power and prevailing over others (Waging War) was clearly his area of fixation, and more signifcantly, something he had an innate sense for. Because he is also SLE, his cognition engages in the most direct form of waging war (violence, fighting) against competitors as the path through which to get to the top of the mountain and reign supreme...."killing the competition.." Griselda Blanco (SLE-Se 8w7 sx/so) same thing but in the context of drug cartels and also a brilliant aggressive strategist but not as willful as Napoleon. Neverthless, same end result, being at war with everyone not for any ulterior motive, just simply to be the only one at the top. Huey Long and Carmine Galante both SLE-Ti 8w7 so/sp same thing. In contrast, SEE doesn't take quite the confrontational approach to statecraft that SLE does, because they are not comfortable with negativism, so their path to the top not so hard and lusty.
As for LIE, I shall pass over that in silence, except to state that numerous of Napoleon's feats and moves defy the dispassionate cost-benefit calculations of Te/Ni cognition. Te/Ni power drive doesn't break structure, doesn't break form or end up running through walls...Nap can only stay within a structured, organized, predictable life only so long before he is back out gambling for more power on the next big monumental showdown on the worldstage....his "Daring to the point of dementia" draws a fine but clear line between SLE and LIE as well as EIE and LIE.
But take Mussolini an EIE-Fe 6w5 so/sp...in contrast to Napoleon, Mussolini's rise to power didn't feature any unique strategic or tactical intelligence but a capacity for working crowds up into a frenzy...same as ****** (EIE-Fe 1w9 so/sp). Napoleon had no special emotional faculty through which he could relate with his people but established his leadership through superior fortitude on the battlefield and overall iron will.
Last edited by Kill4Me; 03-28-2019 at 09:56 PM.
-
Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Ti-Polr for Napoleon only works in fake socionics….Ti-Polr is an absolute impossibility.