Removed at User Request
Removed at User Request
Well I think it's more important to note what the person is getting angry at, the drive behind the action.Originally Posted by Pinocchio
oke that clarifies enough. could you next time add your confidence/certainty in the post, because (and this might be my flaw) if I read something I assume the person knows it reasonable certain, otherwise he would not have brought it up.To be honest, I feel like I don't type people in writing (EVEN CLOSE to) as well as in person, or by video... Unfortunately, aside from a few people like strrrng, ashton, etc, I only know people here by their writing--the people I typed in this thread I only know by writing... In other words, I'm not very confident in my hunches in this thread.
The only one I feel confident in is DeAnte not being SLI... I usually find his posts great, even the ones in which he attacks me.
for the record, typing people by looking at their posts is indeed very hard. The only thing I tend to notice is the distinctive writing style that each type seems to have.
Delusional. Your patronizing bullshit makes me want to vomit.
ILE
7w8 so/sp
Very busy with work. Only kind of around.
I was not offering statistics, I was not going to give you an answer, I was wondering what you think the most likely answer is. It was not a trick question. Only answer it if you wish.
I have heard some of the arguements to your typings. My view is that they are deeply flawed and appear to be based on solely surface behaviours. I would suggest that either an approach based on a psychodynamic or person-centred approach would yield more accurate results.
However the question asked is of course an important one, don't you agree?
So I repeat.
What is more likely?
1. That all these people are that mistaken about themselves and are therefore mistyped.
2. You are mistaken in your typings of others
3. You are mistaken in your understanding of yourself and are therefore mistyped.
Again only answer if you wish, but I hope that my above statement has in some respect reassured you.
Edit: You are certainly interesting Pinocchio, I have to give you that.
Yes 100% yes.
Last edited by somavision; 01-28-2010 at 09:09 PM.
IEE-Ne
Marie84 as LSI? You people are funny.
Quaero Veritas.
I'm not sure I've properly addressed this, but why do you think I'm INFj?
I thought I told you, but based on how you and others describe you as stable, not very expressive or overly energetic. You seem really level headed and stable which is exactly the opposite of IEEs (sorry IEEs, though I think most would take it as a compliment). A vibe says you're more Se PoLR than role. Ti isn't absent. Ne-bases have a 'chaotic' vibe which I do not sense from you. Ummm... arctures only has one 'e' in it. like 'E'II.
Why do you see me as being E7?
lol
overall vibe, including videos and such. 9 out of all types doesn't make sense. Also, I think it explains why you think 9 with 5fix despite your energy levels. Mostly I just don't think you're 9. 7 just seems like it makes sense, but I don't have a lot to support it.
lol you just have too much goddamn energy
The saddest ESFj
...
Fair enough. I haven't really ever talked about why I think I'm a Nine (and honestly, I don't think I'd ever be overly inclined to), so it's fair different people have their own conclusions from what they see. I'm just saying I haven't produced much material that can really be used for typing.
Anyway, the reason I think I have a 5-fix is due to general issues with feeling run-down and about to be finally used up completely, even despite the fact I lead a fairly activity-conservative lifestyle (I don't feel this is a particularly strong reason, and I could easily believe I'm 6-fix, even though having your disintegration point as a tritype seems a little weird to me). Comparatively, very little of 7 seems to apply to me. I'm not particularly high-activity (unless someone gives me a poke and a shove), I don't tend to feel my desires as needs, and I don't feel a particularly strong need to "feel alive" by keeping myself stimulated (in fact, it's kind of the opposite, and that's one reason I think I'm a Nine; I'm both fine with familiar and routine things, and I tend to drop into them when I need to escape (like watching certain movies over and over)).
Anyway, none of these are the "real" reason I think I'm E9. Most of it is built around how I deal with conflict and ever-present issues with interpersonal boundaries. I could equally see myself being E6 for these reasons, and in general I'd say I confusingly hover on the border between the two types. I prefer E9 however due to some pretty profound identification with problems a self-typed E9 I know has. This could easily be due to us both having issues with self-worth, as these kinds of problems seem to crop up in the romantic sphere.
Actually, that's also kind of interesting. All the really, really unpleasant drama with my SLI seems to have been like disintegrating to Six. Issues with mad reactive pinballing leading me to not knowing what I was thinking or feeling; totally inability to communicate because of this and second-guessing myself ad-nauseam (and second-second guessing, and second^3 guessing... etc); being unduly influenced by a friend I was going to for advice without being able to evaluate whether it was good advice at all (it wasn't. It really, really wasn't; not that I'm saying he was really responsible for the mess it all turned out to be). To clarify though, that wasn't normal for me, and aren't the typical issues I face that I was talking about in the paragraph before.
Basically, actually, if I'm a head type, it's 6w7. But I object to E7 as being nonsensical.
</ramble>
EDIT
Also, lolenergylevels. My ability to get stuff done or do things is pitiful at best, despite my vibrant presentation.
hmm, well I wouldn't be opposed to 6w7, but there's still nothing that really points to E9 and plenty of things that point away from it. Surely there would be more than just relating to another 9 that gives reason for being a 9. Also, issues with self-worth aren't 9 issues.
Interesting, such as?
That's not it at all. I was trying to say, we both seem to have problems I that I think are somewhat Niney in nature. But that may be a case of circular reasoning, actually.
I know. I acknowledged this in my post, sorry.
Removed at User Request
Last edited by Pied Piper; 01-29-2010 at 09:08 AM.
Aren't you the one proposing the new theory that Marie84 is LSI? I'm pretty sure the burden of evidence is on you, dude. I went through this thread pretty closely, and so far the only evidence produced by either you or Cyclops to support your "Marie = LSI" theory is the following:
1. A claim that EIIs never use "tactical ad-hominens", but Marie did.
2. A claim that EIIs cannot express disgust in direct and powerful ways, while Marie does.
3. A claim that only Se-Aristocrats refer to "everybody else" as a group having a single opinion, which Marie did.
4. An analogy with Diana, who used to type as EII but now types as LSI, and who used to get frustrated with Cyclops in a similar way to Marie.
5. A claim that Marie doesn't have enough understanding of compassion to be EII.
6. Speculation that Marie doesn't understand what makes people "tick".
7. Speculation that Marie is only pretending to have hurt feelings, but is really calm and systematic.
The first three points put arbitrary and frankly ridiculous limits on what EIIs are capable of saying. The fourth point is interesting but is too vague and subjective to prove anything. The last three are just malicious and baseless misjudgements of character.
When you guys get around to posting some real evidence and reasoning to back up your theory, I'll start taking it seriously.
Quaero Veritas.
Removed at User Request
I've put plenty evidence in other threads.
Frankly, the first 3 things are not ridiculous limits, granted there are some who can say things like that, but it's highly unlikely for someone with S PoLR and ego Fi to be able to express themselves which such strength, group speaking and tactical ad-hominems - indeed Lytov himself commented that it's the LSI's who play clever tactical games, and amusingly perhaps, it's the sort of expressions and actions that can lead others on the forum to be typed at LSI, but the veil for marie84 is still there just now.
The last 3 points are nothing of the sort, I have my reasons for saying it, in honestly, you really know any F type women who can be so callous? Perhaps you are seeing things differently, or clearly on 3 points, but there is a history of it's demonstration and an other thing I don't wish to reveal. Perhaps you could observe her posting over time and determine yourself whether the compassion is genuine product of Fi, good correct solid judgement, or another way at following the rules.
I've also never known as EII who doesn't offer encouragement with new perspectives or advices in a constructive fashion for people, if she sees a transgression - she simply criticises and expects it to be accepted. I fail to see how any Fi goes into Ne.
I suppose I can try to pull together my other reasons, but I suspect it's a fruitless issue, and what's the best that can be achieved? Supposing i'm right and 'everyone' then thinks she's LSI - it's hardly going to change my life.
I do wish though that people who say she's in no way LSI - those who say she's an obvious EII would provide reasons. I've seen Archon Alarion do this about Marie84, refuse to provide reasons.
I'll bet you that you or no one can make a case for her being EII, because it doesn't exist, but i'd like to be shown i'm wrong.
Removed at User Request
Case for Marie84 being an EII
1. Self typing
2. Intertpyr relations
3. She is seen that way by most others without a sense of contradicyion
4. Her behaviour lacks projection, or other signs that she ahas a contradictory sense of self
5. She displays a high level of personal congruance, suggesting that it unlikely that she is mistyping herself.
Your judgement is clouded by your personal feeklings.
And as for pinocchio, I will apologise to him, he is correct that he is consistent in his typings, however he badly misinterprets behaviour.
And in response to your question. My question which was not answered was a subjective one as I have already explained, there is no right or wrong answer. It may not hold any importance to you but your motives are actioned by YOUR answer to it, not mine.
What is more likely?
1. That all these people are that mistaken about themselves and are therefore mistyped.
2. You are mistaken in your typings of others
3. You are mistaken in your understanding of yourself and are therefore mistyped.
I will not push the point any further. However please don't attempt to deflect questions of this nature back on me. Either answer or don't.
You did not repspond either to my statement regarding typing methodogies.
How do you know how Marie84 thinks?
Why do you believe she thinks in formulas.
Last edited by somavision; 01-29-2010 at 12:29 PM.
IEE-Ne
It was me that said she thinks in formulas.
Why don't you go read her posts yourself and you'll see, instead of sounding like a madman straight jacketed. asking questions and making statements without any thought?
I've read her posts how, did you reach the conclusion that she thinks in formulas?
Has she told you she does?
And why have others not realised this yet?
Why do you assume that no thought goes into my questioning?
IEE-Ne
Why do always ask questions?
you don't give me enough credit, this whole entire time I've been trying to get you to write something like this. I know my assumptions about you are flawed
I know three 7s that are incredibly lazy. It's 3s that have a compulsive need to do things. I know one 7 that would probably sit around the house in his underwear if given a choice. It's usually me or someone else that gets him out and into the world. My old roommate is a 6w7 though and he was terrified of doing anything new. Whenever we did anything out of the ordinary he would turn into a complete bitch, and I would constantly have to calm him down. He was ESE though, so he's probably a bit more counter-phobic than most.Anyway, the reason I think I have a 5-fix is due to general issues with feeling run-down and about to be finally used up completely, even despite the fact I lead a fairly activity-conservative lifestyle (I don't feel this is a particularly strong reason, and I could easily believe I'm 6-fix, even though having your disintegration point as a tritype seems a little weird to me). Comparatively, very little of 7 seems to apply to me. I'm not particularly high-activity (unless someone gives me a poke and a shove), I don't tend to feel my desires as needs, and I don't feel a particularly strong need to "feel alive" by keeping myself stimulated (in fact, it's kind of the opposite, and that's one reason I think I'm a Nine; I'm both fine with familiar and routine things, and I tend to drop into them when I need to escape (like watching certain movies over and over)).
My old roommate was quite pathetic. No doubt he would have considered himself 9w1 because he was just a total pussy. (no offense) He was also a very nice guy and really easy to talk to. Also, the way you deal with boundaries is usually used to figure out your gut fix. You can defend your personal boundaries like a 1 9 or 8.Anyway, none of these are the "real" reason I think I'm E9. Most of it is built around how I deal with conflict and ever-present issues with interpersonal boundaries. I could equally see myself being E6 for these reasons, and in general I'd say I confusingly hover on the border between the two types. I prefer E9 however due to some pretty profound identification with problems a self-typed E9 I know has. This could easily be due to us both having issues with self-worth, as these kinds of problems seem to crop up in the romantic sphere.
disintegration is just a bad way to decide one's type. Second guessing oneself is very typical of 6s, and that doesn't mean you're disintegrating to 6. Have you visited my 6w7 thread yet? 6w7s primary problem seems to be knowing who to trust, like the song I have in the threadActually, that's also kind of interesting. All the really, really unpleasant drama with my SLI seems to have been like disintegrating to Six. Issues with mad reactive pinballing leading me to not knowing what I was thinking or feeling; totally inability to communicate because of this and second-guessing myself ad-nauseam (and second-second guessing, and second^3 guessing... etc); being unduly influenced by a friend I was going to for advice without being able to evaluate whether it was good advice at all (it wasn't. It really, really wasn't; not that I'm saying he was really responsible for the mess it all turned out to be). To clarify though, that wasn't normal for me, and aren't the typical issues I face that I was talking about in the paragraph before.
6w7s are also prone to ramblingBasically, actually, if I'm a head type, it's 6w7. But I object to E7 as being nonsensical.
</ramble>
EDIT
Also, lolenergylevels. My ability to get stuff done or do things is pitiful at best, despite my vibrant presentation.
but I wasn't commenting on your ability to get things done, it's that the way you present yourself has too much energy. You're just too active in the way you communicate to be a 9.
The saddest ESFj
...
Cyclops, I'm really glad you asked that.
Why do you think?
sorry... that was a bit of a bad joke.
Sometimes people are clear on the surface, sometimes questioning is required.
IEE-Ne
I don't think this fits to be honest. I know plenty of IEEs and ILEs who aren't chaotic or overly energetic, and can come across as fairly stable, sane, and composed. Ti- subs, Fi- subs, Ne- subs.
But, if reason were based more upon intertype relations, one would have such reason to say you are type over the next, in my opinion it's the most accurate route, but not always the clearest route, seeing as though you have to have your types right first. VI and temperament are pretty clear too. However, "averages" are the only way I can think of that will make typing clearest if efforts show no perfection to begin with. It is the assumption that there should be a fit system, but that one's understanding of it is not fit enough. I haven't even needed to take into account averages AT ALL thus far, when considering my type. Every type and VI has been right on to their according intertype relation, which means someone has been doing a good job for me
If 9/10 relations are right, but none are your dual, you can better assume who is your dual, and who is your activator. If 5/10 relations are right, then there is a problem with your understanding, be it that you might not have enough information (or you might have too much conflicting information), so "averages" of other methods can be taken into account, temperament, VI, description resonance. All touchy subjects.
Sort of FWIW, my intertypes are right, my VI is right.. I am confident that I look more ILE than LII. However my temperament is not that of classic EP, or of some of those ILEs. Some ILEs are more classic EP. I am not often noticeably chaotic, expressive, or overly energetic. Irrationality sticks out, for the most part, so I kind of look IP, tbh. I would confidently say that I am probably IP.
uh oh.
You are an asking type and therefore cannot be ENFp!!!
The end is nigh
Well I'd expect 5w6 ENTp's to superficially resemble IP (being pretty reserved/withdrawn, yet still relaxed in posture).
The end is nigh
uh oh.
You are an asking type and therefore cannot be ENFp!!!
Well stone the crows. Why did no one point this out to me before?
shit.
IEE-Ne
However I can be nervous, innerly excited, kind of err, spazzy?, not paying attention, stuff that goes with static types. And when I'm not all bunched in my room showing myself on stickam, I can be chaotic too.
But I am pretty low-energy most of the time. That is what contradicts everything else.
5w6? I would have thought 5w4 for you, poli. A 5w4 ILE would probably be the most stereotypically "IP" of any ILE.
And Jake, you're still not a 5.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
@poli-cakes: Not sure if you're being sarcastic (i'm never sure with you ;p), but the same is the case for me.
@Gilly: Bitch, I'm 0/-!
also, Poli is too political and alliance based to be w4.
The end is nigh
Na, I just think he asks really dumb stuff yet demands answers he never shows signs of listening to.uh oh.
You are an asking type and therefore cannot be ENFp!!!
In other words, he's not asking me those questions out of genuine interest to learn something, he's asking it to somehow look for ways to laugh at it and expect me to spend time typing that stuff out for nothing.
Besides, if someones read her posts and they can't see how she thinks in formulas, i'd be reticent to explain anyway, but I might if it's someone who's either got something worthwhile to contribute themselves or mature enough to listen.
You see Cyclops. you showed a sign of insight or curiousity. You ask me a question in reposnse to mine without immediately drawing conclusions and making claims regarding my motives.
You asked why I asked questions.
And now you return back to this behaviour pattern.
If you did not believe me ask a furhter question, you have to find the truth, you can't project it.
I am interested. I ask questions and follow them up with further questions because there is more going on with you than meet the eye. Your behaviour and immediate explanations only give a hint at that.
Still waters run deep didn't you say?
Anyway, I am not demanding answers. If you do not want to answer, if you do not feel comfortable answering, don't.
State simply and clearly I do not want to answer that question.
However it shows when you are evasive or disingenuous Cyclops and it shows when you are being evasive and it shows when you project
How did you come to the above conclusion about me?
Answer or don't.
I guarantee if you answer it honestly without deflecting, projecting or throwing it back at me, I will show interest.
IEE-Ne
@cyclops: You should explain what you mean by "formulas" (unless you have elsewhere, in which case I'd like a link, please).
The end is nigh
Removed at User Request
Projecting is an Ne trait?Which is wrong, this is actually the problem. A problem can't be a solution to itself.
1. Which ones?
2. Ar all the persons involved correctly typed?
Perfectly for an LSI. They don't use to argue, but say their opinion and have to be admonished to offer a reasoning. Archon, labcoat, RSV3 - they all behave like this, didn't you see the similarity? This is one of your real problems, you don't have a global image and don't know what happens around, you don't compare people to find similarities/differences - mandatory for someone involved in this kind of matters.
This trait you talk about is actually typical for Ne types. You basically agree with us
LIIs make an exception because they use to tell only conclusions based on logic. EIIs may not do that if not forcibly involved, which is not her case.
This rather suggest that she's a logical person, again an argument for a logical type. It can be something else, can you tell me what kind of "congruence" are you talking about? (and it's "congruence" not "congruance", I know this without a dictionary, Mister English Teacher).
I don't know the answers, I asked you to tell me. If you can't answer, the conclusion is arbitrary.
Please ask it to me again, I work and I don't have the time to search for something I don't know exactly what it is.
Typing is based on people statements, reactions, behavior, not by what they think.
Her conclusions show that. She takes people mechanically, watch her posts and see how she explains how "mechanically" the functions manifest in each. It's up to you to search an see.
The same way you reached the conclusion that she doesn't.
See above.
Have all the others told you that they didn't?
Have Cyclops told you that he assumes this?
Thak you for the spelling correction, I think you can accept that the one letter did not change the meaning of the sentence though. Unlike the clear misunderstanding you made with that other posters post and not only did you get it totally wrong but you then followed up with a condescending lecture. So yes thank you for the spelling correction, I'll make sure I'l correct your misunderstanding of humans and language. Again though I will say that your use and general understanding of english is excellent, in most situations I would not know that it wasn't your first language. There are some subtleties that seem to pass you by, as discussed in that other thread. And your spelling is better than mine in general as well, as I think we have already seen.
How do you draw that conclusion that Marie84's actions are mechanical?
Only you and Cyclops appear to draw this conclusion.
Have you considered that this may be due to limitations in your perception?
Perhaps a lack of empathy?
How do you think I reached the conclusion that Marie84 doesn't think in formulas?
Did I tell you?
You state that you came to your conclusion the same way as I did.
How do you know this?
Draw your own conclusion.
I think that you will agree pinicchio that people need to be typed correctly.
Do you agree?
Last edited by somavision; 01-29-2010 at 02:53 PM.
IEE-Ne
You not think you could have saved typing all that out just to leave it to one line?
I base it based on your behaviour towards me, and other people. I don't have time to search through posts, but here's an example in this thread:
Pinnochio raised a shed load of good points to answer what you said, yet you don't acknowledge that he made a good case and countered your points admirably for LSI type, you just keep asking more questions, talk about spelling... and i've never seen it go anywhere.
Anyway, your case for EII has been shown to be in favour of LSI, is there anyone here who can make a case for EII, those that say it's such an obvious typing? Dislexyc anagram, Archon Alarion, maybe Krig, or anyone else?
---------------------------------
I bet there's plenty people here who think she's not EII but don't wish to publically commit maybe for some it's not always an easy ride to speak of such things.
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