Delta Government for 2010

[somavision]

This is the most ridiculous thing ever imo, no one represents me, I represent myself.

OK, let's say we were to use your list, jewels isn't there and somavision - aka the penetrator is there as an IEE , not to mention some others, geee... ESTj's and "organisation", lol....

Also, for instance Tereg who typed as IEE was used as some sort of benchmark, which turned out to be false as he's changed his type since then, I suppose I can't see any relevance to the list no matter how I look at it.

Unless it's for fun? lol, i'm a party pooper then hehe

I love you too Cyclops.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

I love you too Cyclops.

I don't think you're IEE I think you're Se dominant, probably SEE, but that doesn't mean I dislike you, love you or else-what. I do note you often look for/create a reaction, which is something that's kinda boring for me, but others enjoy it as do you as you've mentioned before, but that's just your Se in action I believe.

[somavision]

I don't think you're IEE I think you're Se dominant, probably SEE, but that doesn't mean I dislike you, love you or else-what. I do note you often look for/create a reaction, which is something that's kinda boring for me, but others enjoy it as do you as you've mentioned before, but that's just your Se in action I believe.

That's fine, I'm aware of your opinions regarding my socionic type and your reasonings behind them. I think if people have followed any of the interactions between us they will also be aware of this.

And of course they will either have their own opinions, or perhaps they will form them in time. I am aware that my self typing is not universally recognised and I am genuinely curious about others perception of me.

I have already received plenty of feedback from yourself and Pinocchio, frankly I do not desire any more. My last typing thread will serve as a record of this though.

I'm also aware that you find my behaviour boring and predictable.
Of course that is also fine.

I identify as IEE, I do not feel the need to explain that identification further.

p.s. Thank you to the person that gave me one of their votes.

[Kim]

Posts 28-38 had me rolling on the floor!

[krieger]

As an honorary member of Delta (I have ESTj blood and delta parents) my votes are:
- Director Abbie
- Arctures

[Galen]

As an honorary member of Delta (I have ESTj blood and delta parents) my votes are:
- Director Abbie
- Arctures

As much as Abbie and I appreciate your consideration, no outsiders are allowed votes, sorry.

Also what do you mean by ESTj blood? Did you have an ESTj blood doner, or do you keep some of Tom's in a jar on your mantle?

[krieger]

I have their abilities. Their voodoo. Who is this tom you speak of and why do you incriminate me with his tragic end?

[Brilliand]

Let's appoint an Official Pollmaker Appointer and go from there.

EDIT: Do we need to vote on that?

[Galen]

I have their abilities. Their voodoo. Who is this tom you speak of and why do you incriminate me with his tragic end?

the16types.info Socionics Forums - View Profile: Tom

[Lobo]

This is the most ridiculous thing ever imo, no one represents me, I represent myself.

OK, let's say we were to use your list, jewels isn't there and somavision - aka the penetrator is there as an IEE , not to mention some others, geee... ESTj's and "organisation", lol....

Also, for instance Tereg who typed as IEE was used as some sort of benchmark, which turned out to be false as he's changed his type since then, I suppose I can't see any relevance to the list no matter how I look at it.

Unless it's for fun? lol, i'm a party pooper then hehe

party pooper...

[Gilly]

Ew, people actually voted for UDP? What the fuck?

[DirectorAbbie]

That's when the next Census is!

Unless you can find another way to get your name on the ballot sooner.

How about revolting every 5 years? Volunteers can challenge.

Unless it's for fun? lol, i'm a party pooper then hehe

[jewels]

yeah I don't really get this either. I don't really want to be ruled. And I wasn't listed!

Let's leave the ruling of others to Beta and go have a picnic, shall we?

[Brilliand]

Anyone volunteering for the position of pollmaker appointer so that you can appoint someone to create a poll to determine who decides whether or not you go on a picnic?

[Park]

Ew, people actually voted for UDP? What the fuck?

What do you have against that?

[Galen]

How about revolting every 5 years? Volunteers can challenge.

I actually feel that holding this thing every year could work. Although then it would be more of a pageant than a real government, but people come and go on here so a fairly rapid change in government figureheads seems fitting.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

I remember when the quadra mods were appointed, that Delta basically decided to stay out of it as they weren't comfortable with the idea of the "figureheads" or what have you, so I wonder, what's changed? (assuming that people here seem to indicate it's a good idea, or at least so far)?

[somavision]

I remember when the quadra mods were appointed, that Delta basically decided to stay out of it as they weren't comfortable with the idea of the "figureheads" or what have you, so I wonder, what's changed? (assuming that people here seem to indicate it's a good idea, or at least so far)?

Although you have not specifically stated that you are uncomfortable with this little popularity contest. Your response has implied that you may be.

If so (and please I do realise that I may be incorrect here), can I ask why this is the case, yet you defended Pinocchio against my objections to his very specific and draconian suggestion of forcing posters that he's believes to be mistyped to have their "correct type" stated on their posts and also to prevent them from discussing anything from the perspective of what they believe their type to be?

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Although you have not specifically stated that you are uncomfortable with this little popularity contest. Your response has implied that you may be.

If so (and please I do realise that I may be incorrect here), can I ask why this is the case, yet you defended Pinocchio against my objections to his very specific and draconian suggestion of forcing posters that he's believes to be mistyped to have their "correct type" stated on their posts and also to prevent them from discussing anything from the perspective of what they believe their type to be?

Here you go looking for a fight again, looking to test people, play "Se" games.

I don't remember supporting Pinocchio's suggestions of such, nor do I remember him making (he may have done, I don't know). As for the second part of your paragraph, don't know what you're talking about.

As for the first paragraph (reverse order, lol), don't even understand the question, sorry. I didn't realise it was a popularity contest, thought it was something to do with government and referring to certain people as a representative of a type, which is kinda the opposite of having people discuss anything from their perspective, which is what you're accusing me of.

As regards to your type (which is probably what all this is about), when it comes to it you can call yourself what you want, but interestingly, you have objected to peoples types being discussed, that happens on this forum, mines has been discussed too, yet as you've admitted to being the penetrator, kinda ironic don't you think, as I don't think anyone asked for your opinions on them as people: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ervations.html

So here:

I have already received plenty of feedback from yourself and Pinocchio, frankly I do not desire any more. My last typing thread will serve as a record of this though.

Doesn't mean you get what you want.

I think you're Se and your confrontational posts and lack of vision of possibilities which you excude, your gaming - your creation of a typing thread just for "trolls and laughs"
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...type-poll.html all point to me thinking you are ESFp dominant, and that you don't look like an ENFp either, but rather Se-EP (if VI is anything to go by) just keeps confirming by your actions that ENFp is a highly unlikely typing for you.

HOWEVER, if it really bothers you that much, i'll stop commenting on it..but don't you think if you were really sure of your type it wouldn't concern you?

Edit: I give you Fi rather than Ti as you seem to focus on manipulating people on an emotional/interpersonal level, which again sounds like Se going into Fi.

Happy now?

[somavision]

Here you go looking for a fight again, looking to test people, play "Se" games.

I don't remember supporting Pinocchio's suggestions of such, nor do I remember him making (he may have done, I don't know). As for the second part of your paragraph, don't know what you're talking about.

As for the first paragraph (reverse order, lol), don't even understand the question, sorry. I didn't realise it was a popularity contest, thought it was something to do with government and referring to certain people as a representative of a type, which is kinda the opposite of having people discuss anything from their perspective, which is what you're accusing me of.

As regards to your type (which is probably what all this is about), when it comes to it you can call yourself what you want, but interestingly, you have objected to peoples types being discussed, that happens on this forum, mines has been discussed too, yet as you've admitted to being the penetrator, kinda ironic don't you think, as I don't think anyone asked for your opinions on them as people: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ervations.html

So here:


Doesn't mean you get what you want.

I think you're Se and your confrontational posts and lack of vision of possibilities which you excude, your gaming - your creation of a typing thread just for "trolls and laughs"
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...type-poll.html all point to me thinking you are ESFp dominant, and that you don't look like an ENFp either, but rather Se-EP (if VI is anything to go by) just keeps confirming by your actions that ENFp is a highly unlikely typing for you.

HOWEVER, if it really bothers you that much, i'll stop commenting on it..but don't you think if you were really sure of your type it wouldn't concern you?

Edit: I give you Fi rather than Ti as you seem to focus on manipulating people on an emotional/interpersonal level, which again sounds like Se going into Fi.

Happy now?

O.K. Just to clarify as I possibly did not make myself that well understood.
I have no objections to people types being discussed.
I do have an objection with people being told what type they are.
Or given their type as you have done here (I have bolded this).
I also am critical of peoples types being used to as a device to discredit peoples point of view. For this reason I believe that caution and self awareness should be used when discussing an individuals type.
As from my own experience I am aware at how pewerful a tool this can be for disrupting useful discussion.

Regarding the thread I made regarding my observations of forum members, making a thread about perceived qualities within an individual is not the same as assigning a type, motives and qualities to an individual. if someone said that my observation were wrong, that is something that I would acknowledge. You have made your observations and I have told you that you are wrong, it is up to you whether you decide that I am deluding myself or whether further questionig and understanding is required.

O.K. with regards to this thread I don't think it has been suggested that anyone gets any actual authority, I may of course be wrong and I could have misunderstood the whole thing.

Whilst my question was in response to a direct intention for clear action called for by Pinocchio.

I am not seeking conflict, however it is difficult to get a straight answer from you. Asking a question is not a form of manipulation. I do not want a specific response from you. I would quite like it if you were honest with me though.

I do not desire your comments on my type as I have heard them before, Although if that is how you choose to respond to my questions that is fine.

Asking a question is not Se
Asking a person to explain contradictions in their behaviour is not Se.
I am happy to answer your questions.
I am happy to admit that my behaviour is not always entirely consistent.
Of course feel free to respond or not to respond and of course feel free to deflect from my question by criticising me.
I am happy to accept this criticism.

The creation of my typing thread was not just for trolls and laughs by the way. There was more too it than that. Ask me if you want to know, I can tell you the whole story. If you want to know why just ask.

Anyway as your memory has prevented you from asking my question, would you mind if I speculated, either here or via pm?

[Creepy-]

Hey thanks for the votes, guys :redface: I don't know exactly what this Delta government would entail, haha, but it's nice to be thought of.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

somavisions: Sorry dude, still don't know what you're on about. At the risk of contravening something you don't like, which I don't fully understand, don't you think that this can be described by illusionary relationships, where we're always having to work hard to understand each other and all that other stuff?

In regards to the delta government thing, I made a post, got some questions about it, it's not big deal (as far as i'm concerned), no idea where the rest of this is going, sorry ,,, but, somehow you seem interested in how I view the forum turning out (possible Ni seeking from you)? Answer: don't really care I tend not to think about the future in that way. However, I can try to answer in some fashion about something you asked me: I don't care if people put their types in their signatures or not, nor am I interested in people having types forced upon them by "grand-masters". If I see someone who I think is incorrectly typed, and I think it's worthwhile and constructive to comment on it, I will, who cares? I mean, I don't like your penetrator threads, which is part of my point about having to tolerate a little round here, I suppose (ie you don't like peoples types being discussed but maybe people don't like their personas being discussed, but you have a problem with one and not the other).

LOL, I really don't understand you or know how to answer you in a way which I think you want, and all we're doing is taking up thread space, ha :-D

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Anyway as your memory has prevented you from asking my question, would you mind if I speculated, either here or via pm?

I don't think it's particularly constructive either way, but probably not pm, seeing as you posted pm(s) discussion between you and I on socionics.com before

[Marie84]

Here you go looking for a fight again, looking to test people, play "Se" games.

How is he looking for confrontation? He asked you a question in which you deflected by accusing him of not being IEE. It's a strawman argument

On a related note, asking for clarity is very much part of Te seeking

"The individual is keen on accumulating factual knowledge on subjects of personal interest and those that help him be more efficient and productive, but he's often unsure of his ability to find and select the correct information and is therefore attracted to people whom he sees as competent in that area and reassure him." - IEE/SEE

[Creepy-Cyclops]

How is he looking for confrontation? He asked you a question in which you deflected by accusing him of not being IEE. It's a strawman argument

On a related note, asking for clarity is very much part of Te seeking

"The individual is keen on accumulating factual knowledge on subjects of personal interest and those that help him be more efficient and productive, but he's often unsure of his ability to find and select the correct information and is therefore attracted to people whom he sees as competent in that area and reassure him." - IEE/SEE

blah blah blah. lol, you know I don't agree with your typing either, and your attempts as trying to underhand re-type me in the past - and *maybe* here are tiresome (you know, I pointed one out on somavisions type me poll thread, which you chose not to answer). Which incidentally you used to discredit anything I had to say about his type on his thread! That's possibly straw man (which you accuse me of), but definately ad-hominem.

Anyway, as I recall you saying, you haven't met any (or many) ESTj's or ENTj's, but you've read the descriptions and think you prefer ENTj's. Doesn't make sense to me, unless it's their Ni your after. (That isn't a "strawman" - that's an additional point to the conversation, Te often types tend to give more information than less on subjects they know about). And yes - I was interested in discussing your type, but unfortunately you don't take conversations with me in the past about it seriously, which could have been opportunity to learn something either way.

But I suppose saying that will just give you ammunition? However, it is said for better or worse.

----------------------

These sort of "this is Te" etc you mention is just black box theortical stuff, I suppose, if you can't understand the phrasing of the whole interaction between us, and I know you've kept an eye on interaction between somavision and I, then no point in explaining it to you. Or maybe you do and are just "at it"... Or maybe you are totally oblivious to how he's asking me about pinnochio's typing stance and my stance and how it's got nothing to do with my point about delta previously not wanting moderators on the forum. Why not point that out? Indeed, in a way you could say i'm providing him with Te by displaying my reasons for his type, how I think it's what he's really getting at (and it partly was), and I answered his other questions as well as thoroughly as I was prepared to despite the interaction.

------------------

I don't doubt somavision's Te seeking, and I don't think somavision has a question of my Fi seeking, the sort of we supply/don't supply exactly what each other needs is probably why we have an on/off relation yet somehow keep trying to make it work, as it probably could be good if we were duals, given fairly reasonable geographical proximity to each other.

[Marie84]

blah blah blah. lol, you know I don't agree with your typing either, and your attempts as trying to underhand re-type me in the past are tiresome (you know, I pointed one out on somavisions type me poll thread, which you chose not to answer).

That's nice, but that has nothing to do with what I posted

Anyway, as I recall you saying, you haven't met any (or many) ESTj's or ENTj's, but you've read the descriptions and think you prefer ENTj's. Doesn't make sense to me, unless it's their Ni your after.

I've met plenty of both types and I don't recall ever stating anything about it either way

These sort of "this is Te" etc is just black box theortical stuff, if you can't understand the phrasing of the whole interaction between us, and I know you've kept an eye on interaction between somavision and I, then no point in explaining it to you. Or maybe you do and are just "at it"... Or maybe you are totally oblivious to how he's asking me about pinnochio's typing stance and my stance and how it's got nothing to do with my point about delta previously not wanting moderators on the forum. Indeed, in a way you could say i'm providing him with Te by displaying my reasons for his type, how I think it's what he's really getting at (and it partly was), and I answered his other questions as well as thoroughly as I was prepared to despite the interaction.

I don't know what other off topic interactions you had, what he asked in that particular post had nothing to do with what you replied with. He asked a question and instead of addressing it you went into a discussion about his type, as you just did with me, and have done so many times

I don't doubt he's Te seeking, and I don't think somavision has a question of my Fi seeking, the sort of we supply/don't supply exactly what each other needs is probably why we have an on/off relation yet somehow keep trying to make it work.

Perhaps it's not Somavision who is mistyped than...?
Not that I think Internet relations are the best indicator of intertype relations....

[Creepy-Cyclops]

That's nice, but that has nothing to do with what I posted

Well, seeing as I explained the situation to you, glad that you think it is nice but not relevant in a bigger context.

I've met plenty of both types and I don't recall ever stating anything about it either way

I can try to look it out, if you think it's important, but I couldl take your word for it, if you clarify which one you prefer?

I don't know what other off topic interactions you had, what he asked in that particular post had nothing to do with what you replied with. He asked a question and instead of addressing it you went into a discussion about his type, as you just did with me, and have done so many times

I mean you've got involved every so often in conversations between he and I for months, going back to socionics.com, so you must have read them seeing as you pop up every so often to get involved when he and I speak.

Perhaps it's not Somavision who is mistyped than...?
Not that I think Internet relations are the best indicator of intertype relations....

I've listed numerous reasons for somavision not being Ne, here and elsewhere. I know that you are convinced he's ENFp, so why not tell me, you really think with all your socionics knowledge than an ENFp would create threads that the penetrator talks about, has said that he enjoys having a fight with someone, and all the numerous other stuff i've listed? (which is no point in repeating again, i know you've read a fair amount of them seeing as you usually get yourself involved..)

[Marie84]

Well, seeing as I explained the situation to you, glad that you think it is nice but not relevant in a bigger context.

I don't want another offtopic thread hijack, hence why I won't address outside issues here, it's not fair to the OP and I feel bad about even doing this

I can try to look it out, if you think it's important, but I couldl take your word for it, if you clarify which one you prefer?

It's not a matter of preference as much as a need for something one can't give me that I value deeply, Si. Nor do I feel that I'm deficient in Ni, for that matter
If you'd like more info I'd be happy to PM it

I mean you've got involved every so often in conversations between he and I for months, going back to socionics.com, so you must have read them seeing as you pop up every so often to get involved when he and I speak.

Actually, I haven't even visited the site, never mind the forum, in some time. I think the last time I went there was during the video typing thread of that blond woman and her daughters, I think in November, maybe earlier, I don't remember...
So no, I really don't know what outside discussions are going on, nor do I talk to Soma outside of the forum

I've listed numerous reasons for somavision not being Ne, here and elsewhere. I know that you are convinced he's ENFp, so why not tell me, you really think with all your socionics knowledge than an ENFp would create threads that the penetrator talks about, has said that he enjoys having a fight with someone, and all the numerous other stuff i've listed? (which is no point in repeating again, i know you've read a fair amount of them seeing as you usually get yourself involved..)

I'm not convinced he's any type, that isn't my point. I think he appears far less decisive and confident about things than any Se type I've known, but I really don't know him enough

btw, when did he say he enjoys fighting with people?

[Gilly]

What do you have against that?

...seriously? All it takes is one post to see that he's a disingenuous sleezeball.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

I don't want another offtopic thread hijack, hence why I won't address outside issues here, it's not fair to the OP and I feel bad about even doing this

Same here, but I decided to respond, hopefully (I'm sure it will) the topic of the thread will be picked up again anyway.

It's not a matter of preference as much as a need for something one can't give me that I value deeply, Si. Nor do I feel that I'm deficient in Ni, for that matter
If you'd like more info I'd be happy to PM it

If you would like to, thanks.

Actually, I haven't even visited the site, never mind the forum, in some time. I think the last time I went there was during the video typing thread of that blond woman and her daughters, I think in November, maybe earlier, I don't remember...
So no, I really don't know what outside discussions are going on, nor do I talk to Soma outside of the forum

Nothing since you last posted, i'm just saying that you've been around for a time is all, and got involved even back then also :-)

I'm not convinced he's any type, that isn't my point. I think he appears far less decisive and confident about things than any Se type I've known, but I really don't know him enough

Ah, OK, fortunately (or unfortunately) i've got a good memory, indeed it was some time ago that you said you were sure he was ENFp, maybe 6 months or something, but... I think I remember the thread (which I think was at socionics.com), spooky or what to remember stuff... However I do remember you mentioning on his recent type thread that he could be doing with some Si, and that he was getting too much Ti (referring to the adhominem I mentioned about my points on his thread about your opinion on my type and therefore my typing thoughts, and that you're thinking he's Si seeking - hence Ne etc..) Clever but dissapointing, if I may be allowed to say that (not meaning you won't let me, just.....)

btw, when did he say he enjoys fighting with people?

It was a conversation he and I had had previously, were he said he really enjoyed fighting with me, so perhaps in fairness I am taking it out of context as he isn't exactly saying everyone, but to clarify, I don't know any ENFp's who enjoy arguments to clear the air (it *seems* for usual preference, to be more an Se/Ni thing), indeed it made me uncomfortable, which is something again which struck a chord with me in terms of his interacting.

[Gilly]

You guys are electing Steve Urkel on steroids for your SLI rep? Come on...

[Creepy-Cyclops]

You guys are electing that Steve Urkel on steroids for your SLI rep? Come on...

hehe

[Gilly]

ROAR, DELTA FIGHTS BACK

what a ******.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

ROAR, DELTA FIGHTS BACK

what a ******.

Is there really such a thing as one person representing a whole type?

[Gilly]

Thankfully no.

[somavision]

I don't think it's particularly constructive either way, but probably not pm, seeing as you posted pm(s) discussion between you and I on socionics.com before

That's fine I will refrain from any specualtions at this stage, I will make one observation and ask a few more questions though.

If a topic has been raised by an individual that references a pm, if there is no further information, either personal or that discloses information that does not relate to the discussion raised, why is it unethical to post the contents?
You bought up the pm and you paraphrased it on an open forum.
Why is it unethical to post that?
Is it not less ethical to bring up the information that was discussed in the pm.

On the other hand, on your last post in this thread you advise that I once said that I enjoyed fighting you. This is a topic that was raised in a pm and you have also posted this pm. Making you guilty of the same behaviour that you criticise me for.
Therefore what is the relevance of bringing up this topic?
Why did you bring up this topic?
(You had misunderstood my intention there, by the way.)


If you also look at the first visitor message on my profile it is from you. Disclosing another alias of mine.

How did you know that we were the same person?
Were you a moderator at the time?
Did you have access to personal information that most posters wouldn't?

Marie84, thanks for defending me again, I have difficulty sometimes.
And by the way, the above sentence relates to the answer to your trolls and giggles comment.

Anyway brief lesson in ethics and hypocracy there for you,.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

That's fine I will refrain from any specualtions at this stage, I will make one observation and ask a few more questions though.

If a topic has been raised by an individual that references a pm, if there is no further information, either personal or that discloses information that does not relate to the discussion raised, why is it unethical to post the contents?
You bought up the pm and you paraphrased it on an open forum.
Why is it unethical to post that?
Is it not less ethical to bring up the information that was discussed in the pm.

I don't know if the conversation regarded something else, but if I was going to post an actual pm of someone then I would ask for their permission first, rather than at best something which might just be a vague point which only you would get, if it even was that, maybe that's just me.

On the other hand, on your last post in this thread you advise that I once said that I enjoyed fighting you. This is a topic that was raised in a pm and you have also posted this pm. You had misunderstood my intention there by the way.
Making you guilty of the same behaviour that you criticise me for.

Well, I can't remember if you told me you like fighting with me over pm or even on chatbox as we've spoke on numerous fomats, but .... it's hardly personal to say you like fighting with me, and I don't, and it's a tiny thing in comparison to posting an actual word for word pm stating, this is pm's from xyz which is a completely different mode of conversation, the intent and action is all together different. However, if that you like fighting with me is an issue, then i'll delete it.

Therefore what is the relevance of bringing up this topic?
Why did you bring up this topic?

Because I don't want to discuss over pm with you if you could and do post pm's or post actual private details about a person, things which clearly *aint* a grey area, which you've done as well.

stuff...

*shrugs* w/e, i'm done talking to you, you're dangerous.

[somavision]

To clarify as once again you've evaded every point.
You posted a pm without my permission
This issiue was not addressed by you, yet you criticise me for doing the same thing yet in a perhaps inperfect but morally justifiable way.
I propose that you disclosed personal information you were privy to as a moderator.
You selective memory is not doing you any favours.
I am going to call you a coward a hypocrite and a liar.
Feel free to defend these charges.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

If anyone actually gives a shit, i've never been a moderator here and i'm sure the admins could confirm that, so I don't know what this guy is talking about and i've no way to get access to anyones information here, or on any of the socionic forums, like it needs being said

[somavision]

If anyone actually gives a shit, i've never been a moderator here and i'm sure the admins could confirm that, so I don't know what this guy is talking about and i've no way to get access to anyones information here, or on any of the socionic forums, like it needs being said

Thank you, a straight answer. So how did you connect the two aliases?
You didn't address the other points again.