Enneagram: differences between type 4 and type 9

[maniac]

Basically, 4s try to disconnect themselves from everyone, and 9s try to disconnect themselves from no one. In other words, 4 and 9 are basically opposites.

Then there is the 5 wing and the 3 wing which look different. 3 wing naturally fits in more, being an attachment type, 4w5 are more rejective(?). 5 wing thinks (on top of "me and my feelings") more about outer power trying to control them (society and such) vs 3 wing which emphasizes the *ME ME ME*. People underestimate the impact of wings I think.
Many 4w3 mistypes as 4w5... And 9s mistypes as 4
Then there are subwings IMO that people here seem to have predisposed feelings towards but i see them in people clearly

[Chae]

4 wants to express themselves in relation to others. Their authentic feeling > belonging. Self > Others.
9 wants everyone to express themselves in relation to each other. Belonging > Their authentic feeling. Others > self.

4's standpoint is insular, 9's standpoint is universal. The wings only amplify that. 4 becomes either more observant at 5 or more self-aggrandizing/self-referencing at 3, while 9 becomes more protective at 8 and collectively moral at 1.

So one point of distinguishment is how they deliberately create discord: 9 - not at all! This goes against everything they want. 9 always ajusts and keeps their (disruptive) opinion to themselves if possible. 4 - oh yes, when their emotionality and drive to stand out demands it. They will state their opinion for that very purpose.

[Faith]

Yeah. I think there are just a ton of 4s with an 9 fix and vice versa on the Internet so everyone just ends up confused. Most enneagram information in the Internet is obfuscation in general.

Yeah, that must be. Also appearance, I know personally 4s… and some could "appear" more "peaceful" and "nice" than me (9w8) at first sight, I just look serious/distant/cold/ angry/ bored/uninterested, and I'm much more "honest" in my interactions and expressions and uninterested in having rewards from others, so maybe is that too.

I've found good stuff, but still Idk why ppl confuse types when we aren't alike…I mean, enneagram institute for example, it makes clear distinctions between needs, motivations, fears and else.

But its true that most descriptions of 9 wings fail miserably when describing 9w8 or even making distinction between 9w1 or 9w8 its clear that some authors can't find or comprehend what 9s are in reality. 9w8 search fiercely/violently peace while 9w1 search peace through being good or self righteousness perfectionism and stuff like that.

[Pallas]

Yeah, that must be. Also appearance, I know personally 4s… and some could "appear" more "peaceful" and "nice" than me (9w8) at first sight, I just look serious/distant/cold/ angry/ bored/uninterested, and I'm much more "honest" in my interactions and expressions and uninterested in having rewards from others, so maybe is that too.

I've found good stuff, but still Idk why ppl confuse types when we aren't alike…I mean, enneagram institute for example, it make clear distinctions between needs, motivations, fears and else.But its true that most descriptions of 9 wings fail miserably when describing 9w8 or even making distinction between 9w1 or 9w8 its clear that some authors can't find or comprehend what 9s are in reality. 9w8 search fiercely/violently peace while 9w1 search peace through being good or self righteousness.

As I said,

Most enneagram information in the Internet is obfuscation in general.

That seems to be all of it to me, although there are further reasons for that if you really want to get into it. Those reasons are basically 1. enneagram cults and 2. escapism. The actual process of typing is also basically generally typing birds based on whether or not they're blue, which is why I made the Archetype Stackings thread and then the other ideas in it (although I think the main post in that thread is generally inaccurate, you have to start somewhere).

[maniac]

not all examples in this are good but anyway