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Thread: Aspergers related to socionics type?

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    The reason they are autistic is that they see a million and one reasons not to be sentimental, not to "get personal". When they open themselves up to this possibility, they get exceptionally personal.

    Think of it this way: suppose that you created a system of thought more complex and quite frankly amazing than anything else that had come before it. You were able to accomplish this by completely distancing yourself from your own fears and values, and so have created something that is alien to typical human concerns. Most people can only barely understand you, if at all. Now let's say that you all of a sudden choose to express an opinion which reflects how you really feel. There is a good chance that the people who barely understand your ideas will feel exceptionally threatened by your opinion, because how are they to know that it isn't an alien production of your (typically detached) perspective? To understand your perspective, must they first adopt your opinion?

    In the 1933, Einstein tried to immigrate to the U.S. (to escape Nazi persecution). Unexpectedly standing in his way was a group of angry women's rights activists who were upset about comments he had made about women being "over fussy" and "in need of proper management" by their husbands. This was only the second time this had happened: in 1924 he had gotten in some serious hot water with Amercan editorialists by arguing that American men "did not properly discipline their women". It was a paradox of his genius that this man who could see deeper into the processes of nature than seemingly anyone else had, with respect to all matters of personal conduct, a decidedly chauvinistic attitude belonging to the 19th century, as opposed to the 20th. I think this peculiarity can be explained, though, in the fact that the shadow is always opposite ideologically to the ego: an ardently progressive reformer like himself would be expected by have a shadow that is static in every sense of the word. Einstein often described himself as the tool by which God investigated the question of whether or not he had a choice in creating the universe. His belief in a god (although not the Yahweh of his ethnic faith) eventually led him to insist on the incompleteness of quantum mechanics, which eventually led to his falling away from the mainstream in physics. Certainly it never availed Einstein to share his personal beliefs about anything, because his friends always had personal reasons of their own not to listen.

    One person who did listen to Einstein was the very conservative and authoritarian Sigmund Freud, in whose work Einstein took a great deal of interest. Einstein's person was also "borrowed" on behalf of all sorts of causes: people frequently attempted to exploit his fame. That may be another reason for his reclusivelness, in that he may have feared people close to him were trying to use him.
    Last edited by tcaudilllg; 01-14-2010 at 07:23 PM.

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    On the topic of ESFjs and autism: could this manifest as a loss of logical faculties, i.e. a separation of subjectivity and objectivity such that one or the other much be chosen, with this choice normally depending on type?



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    Tcaudillg. Basically when you keep to yourself too much, you want to be heard, but you're not getting heard. So when you open your mouth, a lot of constrained energy will be released. Most people who are highly constrained by super-ego might understand this, especially when they break out from the super-ego constrain and say something. The super-ego expects punishment, because those who are operating in your super-ego are operating in fear. Fear expects punishment.

    Similarly, perfect love casts out all fear. Tcaudillg, should your theory be right, then will I be overly presumptuous to propose that putting an aspie/autist in an environment where they can feel absolutely loved and excepted no matter what crap they do (yes, even murder, if they choose to) will start the healing process?

    I suppose, if anyone is in such an environment, any form of neurosis will be healed too. That is what duality proposes.

    I am of the opinion that socionics, like all other models, are over-simplifications, and that we are arguing about faults in a model that are bound to be there, since it is a model.

    Brilliand, are you asking if 'emotional' autism can manifest in ESFj's? Meaning they are stuck in subjectivity, while logical autists are stuck in objectivity? My intuition is that if such a thing were possible, then it will not be limited to ESFj's. I would believe that all types have the potential to become an autist of one or the other. It is only due to circumstance, time, and chance (instruments of God) that most of us are not autists in either sense.

    Autism is extreme preference towards the logical functions. I suppose dramaqueens are the near counterparts to logical autism, in that they seem to have extreme preference towards ethical functions.

    Also, any type can gravitate towards either pole of autism, regardless of whether you have ethics or logic in your ego block. E.g. an IEE may exhibit traditionally autistic behaviour during the times when he or she feels that her super-ego functions, namely Ti, is necessary during that period of time. This of course, does not make he or she and autist.
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    Why I love LSEs:
    Quote Originally Posted by Abbie
    A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brilliand View Post
    On the topic of ESFjs and autism: could this manifest as a loss of logical faculties, i.e. a separation of subjectivity and objectivity such that one or the other much be chosen, with this choice normally depending on type?
    No. It would be characterized by a completely mechanical manifestation of FeSi -- the person would be extremely meticulous about matters of comfort -- they would rely on expectations of what is comforting or discomforting for a person without actually trying to assess whether that person is being comforted or discomforted. They would be blind to idiosyncrasies. They might appear overbearing: they would be trying to make you as comfortable for purposes of say, increasingly your likability of them, and then they would ask what could be done with this likability.

    I'm coming to believe that El Ron Hubbard must have been autistic.

    Similarly, perfect love casts out all fear. Tcaudillg, should your theory be right, then will I be overly presumptuous to propose that putting an aspie/autist in an environment where they can feel absolutely loved and excepted no matter what crap they do (yes, even murder, if they choose to) will start the healing process?
    Don't forget that they have impaired emotional sensitivity. "Absolute love" is a relative condition -- an Aspie will push the boundaries just to see how far the "love" can be stretched.
    Last edited by tcaudilllg; 01-17-2010 at 12:00 PM.

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    I don't believe that they have impaired emotional sensitivity.

    Only repressed.

    Also, it will be interesting to see them stretch the boundaries of love.

    How many will they kill before something in their hearts start to stir?
    Should we stop them before they kill?
    Will they even kill?

    To heal an aspie, one must be willing to be an aspie himself.
    She is wise
    beyond words
    beautiful within
    her soul
    brighter than
    the sun
    lovelier than
    love
    dreams larger
    than life
    and does not
    understand the
    meaning of no.
    Because everything
    through her, and in her, is
    "Yes, it will be done."


    Why I love LSEs:
    Quote Originally Posted by Abbie
    A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!

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    No one can psychologically heal anyone else. People must heal themselves. You can provide treatment, but you can't do a person's healing for them, only prevent further injury.

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    it's an environmental condition, which for me is one of those things that just clearly clashes with the socionics theory in general.
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    Hmm. I disagree tcaud.

    People can heal others, but only to a certain extent.

    Those who are unwell must work with those who are well so that they can make ends meet.

    Have you played Spore? It's something like the social function during creature level. If you want to make a friend, you need to input enough compatible social energy to meet the point where your potential friend is at after he or she has input his or her own social energy. Usually this is done simultaneously. Likewise, to 'heal' an aspie, you must accept his or her energy and input your own in a similar, acceptable manner.

    Perhaps, this is what you mean by 'treatment'. In that case, I agree with you.
    She is wise
    beyond words
    beautiful within
    her soul
    brighter than
    the sun
    lovelier than
    love
    dreams larger
    than life
    and does not
    understand the
    meaning of no.
    Because everything
    through her, and in her, is
    "Yes, it will be done."


    Why I love LSEs:
    Quote Originally Posted by Abbie
    A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!

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    what would an ENFp with Aspergers look like....?
    ditto INFj?

    ...they don't exist, do they

  10. #50
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    What Tcaudillg said basically sums up why I feel LII. Ti is synonymous with what he says, at least to me.


  11. #51
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    I heard of awkward guy who made scoring list of all the girls in school and after that bluntly asked highest scorer out based on solely that criteria. He wanted to accomplish relational task he was told to consider.

    I think this sounds LIE with Asperger's.

    Anyways Gulenko has often put under autism. Well, sure those types may sound like ones. Highest form of logical autism can be found in IEI's. It looks so unbelievable when they hammer that logical point across.

    Then I was looking at info from Richard Feynman. Some people thought that it was sign of his autism when he told in a correspondence where they compared their own offspring that his girl was not into boys yet (apparently child - info that was embedded in the letter) which was an obvious joke. Labeling someone autistic made "diagnostician" sound much more autistic than the one she was trying to diagnose.

    I'm sure everyone is familiar with somene's intuitive autism (begins with S).
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    people worship Ni but I'm pretty sure its more like a demon society exists to keep a lid on

    they're just a bunch of satanists hanging around and if their little summoning circle worked they'd be the first ones devoured

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    Ni is useless I agree

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