I don't. But he's not an ILI.Originally Posted by Joy
I don't. But he's not an ILI.
Why's that?
See Eglit. Beta NF is a 1d function for SLE, and 1d functions have been associated with phobias.
Particular the 5th.
correct, you just have an overdose of Ni.
And I think I'm actually sx/so, not sx/sp.
To be honest, I really don't have much of a problem with it either. That's not to say I think it's definitely the correct typing, but I don't seriously think Joy couldn't be an SLE.
FTR, Joy, I think your type change get more of a warm reception at socionics workshop. I remember talking to Expat about a year and a half ago and he told me that he found LIE difficult to see at first, but if you really thought that, and with discojoe as ESI it really worked, he couldn't find fault.
You know what?
I'm okay with this! You know, I used to read your posts Joy and think you were a sane person that understood things and didn't get the hate around the forum for you. It was weird. I always thought you just 'made sense' most of the time.
I remember thinking we could be in the same quadra as well.
Is he hanging around there again?
You know, honestly I think my relationship with him over the past few years would make a lot more sense with me as an SLE.
There are a handful of people whose intertype relations with me make more sense this way. And as for the fact that most of the people who have been very outspoken against me appear to be Beta... well, maybe it sort of makes sense looking back that it all boiled down to "those crazy Betas fighting among themselves and making a scene".
I miss Expat too!
IEI-Fe 4w3
Cool, thanks for the input. I far from ruled my school as my social skills pretty much suck and I resented the fact that I was forced to be there to begin with. I pretty much just did what I wanted. Or more specifically, didn't do what I didn't want to do.
I've always been sort of socially isolated though due to my upbringing. This is something I've decided to overcome, however. I'll be starting classes again at the end of January. We'll see what happens. In the meantime, most of my friends right now live half and hour to 45 minutes away and are too into the party scene. This too shall pass.
Me too. I don't expect he'll be back though. I wish him well.
I'll be Delta INFj.
I don't really see you as a Se valuer, thb. You're just really pissed off all the time and it makes it seem like you're "edgy". I do see you as a Fe valuer though. Your world view (minus the "everything is super shitty thing") is about as Alpha as I've ever seen. SEI, anyone?
(And this is true whether I'm LIE, SLE, or whatever the fuck.)
Joy IMO you are sp/sx.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
I don't see the sp when I look at my lifestyle choices in the past though. I've lived through some pretty hard times as the result of being willing to give up comforts for the sake of freedom or to live with people I wanted to live with. My attitude has always been "I'll make it work someone, even if it's uncomfortable or difficult for a little while". I've even moved to a relatively high crime area for the purpose of getting into a high growth area and seeing a large potential equity growth in the future. My sp first husband (Peter) thought I was insane for having moved there and demanded that we move to an area that's safer and more comfortable. Even now I'd be willing to make significant sacrifices in my standard of living temporarily if it made sense from an sx perspective.
Is there an aspect to sp that I'm not aware of? Is it about more than just making sure that you're comfortable and safe?
As far as the sx description on that oceanmoonshine site: "Sexuals attract others without really trying. They also repel others in the same way, like an anti-pheromone. This works like a screening function in the mating process. People typically have a strong reaction one way or another towards Sx's, and vice versa." That describes me EXTREMELY well. Even my mom recently said that I'm one of those people that people either love or hate.
sp = self preservation. Maintenance of means, resources, personal boundaries, sense of personal continuity and control in your owned environment.
You could be sx/sp, I suppose, but I don't really see any so focus in you.
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
I've been purposely avoiding it for the past like 5 years after two very bad experiences (including the death of a friend). And lets not forget that I was on psychiatric medications (including stimulants) for that 5 or 6 year period as well.
It's not so much that I think that I'm so > sp. It's that I think that I'm sp last. I have definitely missed social interaction and have felt much better since I've been hanging out with some irl people I know lately. And I'm I started hanging out with people again, it's something I want to do most of the time. I'm finding my place in their group of friends. I don't want to get too into this particular group since they live sort of far from me and are younger than I am, but I'm betting that once I start school I'll find new people to hang out with. People who live a little closer. I worry that they'll also be a bit younger than I am, but I'm okay with that if those are my options.
Anyways, since I've been hanging out with some new people (particularly an SEE, an EIE, an IEI, and their friends), I've been feeling much more like "myself" than I have in a VERY long time.
Do you know of any sites with stacking descriptions other than that oceanmoonshine place?
so doesn't directly have anything to do with being sociable or outgoing.
Oceanmoonshine is the only place I know, really.
What makes you think sp last?
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
This:
Basically, my physical comfort and security mean less to me than most other things. Pain and discomfort are things to be subordinated to my will.
Interesting.
I'm not quite clear, what are your exact reasons for taking a hit in the housing department?
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
A few times because of changes in relationships. One time for potential profit.
I think you're SLE too. Honestly.
Thanks. (: I appreciate the input.
I'm still not sure, but there's a lot that makes sense. I think I've supressed my Se to a large extent though... I need to let myself go and do what feels natural. I think starting school at the end of January may help me with this.
No. That relates to your ENTj Si-polr and not to your Se-ego. Which doesn't exist, because you are not SLE. You are fragmenting things too much Joy which is the same mistake I see a lot of people doing lately. The general make-up, something about who you are as a whole just isn't SLE. And you can fan-wank the functions to mean anything you want, but I just proved to you that what you think is true is just another area of the psyche and not what you are really calling it.Basically, my physical comfort and security mean less to me than most other things. Pain and discomfort are things to be subordinated to my will.
I wasn't talking about Si or Se. I was talking about my enneagram stackings. (I do think this could be a Si ignoring thing though.)
I'm becoming increasingly convinced that I'm most likely SLE.
Fe > Fi valuing. And horrible at both of them.
Last edited by Joy; 01-27-2010 at 10:39 PM.
At least 90% now. Probably closer to 95%.
are you going to provide any reasoning?
<Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is
Hadn't planned on it. I've learned that it doesn't generally matter if you do or don't. Plus I have reasons for trying not to focus on this crap too much.
Also, whether others here agree with me of not is of no consequence to me.
I guess I'll just say that this (Se in SLE's) is me. And what I thought was Ni was actually Ti.
Also, I think there's a reason that Se PoLR's have always stood out to me.
Is Peter still ESI?
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
Yep.
LSI is my second choice, but ESI seems much more likely.
How do you see Supervision happening?
Next question.
IEI-Fe 4w3
Nah. Probably LSI. This is based on my observations from interacting with an EIE with whom I got along better than anyone I've ever interacted with, and also from a recent conversation with George.
I also seem to have superior math skills to the people in my econ class. I actively engage the professor when he is using graphic demonstrations, and I have even corrected him on something rather technical which he was leaving out. Most other students tend to not be this comfortable with the mathematical aspects, and the other one who is is this LSI who coincidentally sits next to me.
I had to take a placement exam for school, and I aced the algebra portion of the test, which was actually rather difficult. The teacher on duty said she had never seen that happen before. I'm not bragging, since I find math boring anyway, but I don't think ESIs would be very comfortable with this kind of thing. Joy's ESI sis can barely do statistics.
Blind praise and motivation are meaningless, especially from someone of questionable moral status.
Joy's self-typing of SLE is somewhat suspect. From a conversation with George, I think she could be ESE. She tends to get confused by Te, and I often end up having to explain things with Ti.
For example:
Me using Te: "Fact. Fact. Fact. Consequence."
Joy: "So?"
Me using Ti: "Fact A + Fact B = Fact C; Fact C = Fact D; Fact A + Fact B = Fact D."
Joy: Gotcha.
Ni PoLR, from Wikisocion:
This is a perfect description of Joy's attitude toward going to college. Though I am glad that she is doing this, and think it will be good for her, she was very unaware of how demanding college work is and didn't quite seem to "grasp" the amount of time involved.When talking about the future (especially one's longer-term plans), ESEs treat it as if it were accessible today and often they are not aware of all the developments that must happen first, and how long those can take.
She likes to cook and is very good at it. She seems very aware of which types of foods and drinks go together. She randomly makes everyone food, even though she is rarely asked. She is also very mindful of the comfort level of the house, preferring to keep the thermostat set high, while I prefer setting it low and wearing a sweater. She immediately noticed that Travis's room, facing the wind, gets colder than other rooms, and was quick to get him thermal curtains and make sure he had blankets and/or the dogs cuddling with him at night.
From reading her diary from when she was 16, I suffered an Fe hemorrhage and had to be rushed to the emergency room. Seriously. Fe overload.
When tasting beer, she is much more attuned to the taste and experience of it. Our EIE friend, on the other hand, likes to taste a beer and then show off his expertise of beer tasting by talking about the type of beer being drunk and its history. Joy is largely indifferent to this kind of thing.
She frequently gets overwhelmed by large numbers of tasks. They stack up and she starts feeling anxious. My approach is to simply power through these tasks, and she seems to have a similar method, but her method tends to lose track of smaller, important tasks that should not be left unattended (like sorting through stacks of papers, which tend to pile up very rapidly until I say FUCK THIS SHIT and through that junk out).
She gets "hobbies" and then looks for people to participate in them with her. For instance, when she would crochet all the time, she looked for crochet clubs. When I showed her how to play Magic, she started looking for casual Magic tournaments.
She enjoys more "quiet" activities like playing cards with a large group of friends. She will do this for hours and hours and is usually the last to call it quits.
She tends to lack appreciation for the potential likelihood of danger. When I saw her checking her new phone while driving--causing her eyes to come off the road for several seconds and us to almost run a red light--I warned her to never take her eyes of the road for more than half a second. She begrudgingly ceded that I was correct, but seemed unconvinced. The next day, she called me up on the way to work, informing me that she had gotten herself into a car accident, read-ending another car whilst dicking around on her new cell phone. Needless to say, I was furious. Ni PoLR.
However, despite all of this, I am still not sure. I feel like a need an intuitive ethical type to come in and offer advice. Perhaps Rick? (nudge nudge... kidding)
you are not LSI. you are far too much of a bitch.
Hey crazetwat <3.
I approve of this message.Nah. Probably LSI. This is based on my observations from interacting with an EIE with whom I got along better than anyone I've ever interacted with, and also from a recent conversation with George.
I also seem to have superior math skills to the people in my econ class. I actively engage the professor when he is using graphic demonstrations, and I have even corrected him on something rather technical which he was leaving out. Most other students tend to not be this comfortable with the mathematical aspects, and the other one who is is this LSI who coincidentally sits next to me.
I had to take a placement exam for school, and I aced the algebra portion of the test, which was actually rather difficult. The teacher on duty said she had never seen that happen before. I'm not bragging, since I find math boring anyway, but I don't think ESIs would be very comfortable with this kind of thing. Joy's ESI sis can barely do statistics.
Blind praise and motivation are meaningless, especially from someone of questionable moral status.
Joy's self-typing of SLE is somewhat suspect. From a conversation with George, I think she could be ESE. She tends to get confused by Te, and I often end up having to explain things with Ti.
For example:
Me using Te: "Fact. Fact. Fact. Consequence."
Joy: "So?"
Me using Ti: "Fact A + Fact B = Fact C; Fact C = Fact D; Fact A + Fact B = Fact D."
Joy: Gotcha.
Ni PoLR, from Wikisocion:
This is a perfect description of Joy's attitude toward going to college. Though I am glad that she is doing this, and think it will be good for her, she was very unaware of how demanding college work is and didn't quite seem to "grasp" the amount of time involved.
She likes to cook and is very good at it. She seems very aware of which types of foods and drinks go together. She randomly makes everyone food, even though she is rarely asked. She is also very mindful of the comfort level of the house, preferring to keep the thermostat set high, while I prefer setting it low and wearing a sweater. She immediately noticed that Travis's room, facing the wind, gets colder than other rooms, and was quick to get him thermal curtains and make sure he had blankets and/or the dogs cuddling with him at night.
From reading her diary from when she was 16, I suffered an Fe hemorrhage and had to be rushed to the emergency room. Seriously. Fe overload.
When tasting beer, she is much more attuned to the taste and experience of it. Our EIE friend, on the other hand, likes to taste a beer and then show off his expertise of beer tasting by talking about the type of beer being drunk and its history. Joy is largely indifferent to this kind of thing.
She frequently gets overwhelmed by large numbers of tasks. They stack up and she starts feeling anxious. My approach is to simply power through these tasks, and she seems to have a similar method, but her method tends to lose track of smaller, important tasks that should not be left unattended (like sorting through stacks of papers, which tend to pile up very rapidly until I say FUCK THIS SHIT and through that junk out).
She gets "hobbies" and then looks for people to participate in them with her. For instance, when she would crochet all the time, she looked for crochet clubs. When I showed her how to play Magic, she started looking for casual Magic tournaments.
She enjoys more "quiet" activities like playing cards with a large group of friends. She will do this for hours and hours and is usually the last to call it quits.
She tends to lack appreciation for the potential likelihood of danger. When I saw her checking her new phone while driving--causing her eyes to come off the road for several seconds and us to almost run a red light--I warned her to never take her eyes of the road for more than half a second. She begrudgingly ceded that I was correct, but seemed unconvinced. The next day, she called me up on the way to work, informing me that she had gotten herself into a car accident, read-ending another car whilst dicking around on her new cell phone. Needless to say, I was furious. Ni PoLR.
However, despite all of this, I am still not sure. I feel like a need an intuitive ethical type to come in and offer advice. Perhaps Rick? (nudge nudge... kidding
I have thought for literally years now that dj is LSI. He insists, above all else, of having a seemingly perfectly refined view of how the things he is interested in work, almost to the point of obsession. With anything he is knowledgeable or interested in, he seeks to perfect a coherent, consistent understanding of all relevant aspects, with little patience for theoretical dalliances or obscure theories, but always nailing down everything that seems applicable to reality.
He also blatantly seeks Fe. For one, many of his remarks are quite obviously designed to provoke an emotional response; it's almost like he's gauging to see if people are "really there" - Se in service of seeking Fe. He likes to push people, to test their mental limits, their understanding, how far he can go before they give up or break down; classic Se creative tactics. He seems to care very little for anything resembling a standardized set of behaviors or morals. He does believe, and very strongly, in a few key aspects of right and wrong, but they are concrete, very rationally based; he cares little for how people behave (in terms of right or wrong), but greatly for what they actually do.
Also, I think there is an easy argument for him being Merry>Serious. In most situations, his comments are directly geared towards an assumed atmosphere, usually one of two: comical mockery, or serious intellectual engagement. He will sometimes ignore or overlook minor deviations, but when people do something that is against the spirit of what he is promoting or somehow misinterpret his intentions in this area (ie, taking him seriously when he is trying to be funny, or making jokes or silliness when he is trying to have a real discussion), he tends to get easily frustrated, and does one of two things: contain himself and keep going, trying to ignore it, or lash out at the nearest offender- this is exactly how LSIs deal with conflicting emotions, to either ignore them totally or explode. This is typical of Merry types: wanting to sustain a specific emotional environment that is situationally relevant in order to preserve the integrity of what they are hoping to achieve. He will not hesitate to badger and berate people who he sees as in violation of the bounds of things he wants to discuss; if he perceives someone as incompetent, he will immediately dismiss them by demonstrating exactly how they are wrong and why they should stay the fuck away from things they know nothing about. This smacks of Ti dominance and Ne PoLR, for reasons that I hardly feel merit elaboration.
On a more personal note, I find it very easy to see him as my dual, even down to the subtype. Like so many Se/Ni quadra mates, our interaction began with immediate head-butting and territorial nonsense, mostly over my type but also a number of petty, inconsequential conflicts. However, over time, even when we didn't "like" each other, we still had very interesting and involved conversations, some of which lasted for hours; we have never had a hard time communicating, everything is always very direct and easy to interpret and understand. Our misunderstandings, though rare, are almost always petty syntactical or contextual discrepancies that are revealed after any minor elaboration.
Dj actually played a big part in my own intellectual maturation: he questioned a lot of my ideas that, when speaking with most people, I was able to worm my way around, finesse, and sway people in order to reassure myself of my correctness. But dj always took a direct approach, explaining to me at every step of the way (with what would probably seem like inhuman patience to any non-LSI) exactly why what I purported was theoretically or practicably wrong, and confronted me in a way that I could not sidestep or avoid; I certainly never got anywhere close to sweet-talking around him. I was actually angry with him for a long time, because he pretty much thrashed me intellectually, which I was afraid to admit that any human could be capable of, but over time I grew to appreciate the fact that he had been able to drill through my hard-headed idealism in a manner that was not only undeniable, but also coherent enough for me to see exactly where I had gone wrong so that I could start building again. Plenty of people had tried to do similar things to me before, but I was always either too hard-headed or persuasive for them to convince me of anything (indeed it was often the other way around, misguided as I was).
Basically I have a hard time seeing him as any other type; I was hardly ever convinced of the ESI typing, and even when I didn't know Socionics hardly at all I thought he was a Beta ST
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
And you are suggesting Joy and I are the same type?
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
Maybe...
Remember, you're a 7 and she's a 3. This makes major differences, as does subtype (you are Fe, Joy is Si)
But, for a certainty, back then,
We loved so many, yet hated so much,
We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...
Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
Whilst our laughter echoed,
Under cerulean skies...
I don't think so. I don't think we relate to each other enough to be identicals. There has to be some sort of kindred spirit...I like Joy, but I think we are very different.
Anyway, I just came across Huitzilopochtli's picture in the pic thread and the resemblance with dj is quite striking.
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
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