I'm back to SEI for Gul, probably Si subtype.
I'm back to SEI for Gul, probably Si subtype.
Well I don't see you as being as precise or measured in your use of Fe as someone like, say, Kam or Bee; they tend to make these sort of tactical strikes, whereas you sort of bob around on your whims, poking around here or there and making cute little self-insertions; you're basically a hyper, less grounded, more kid-like version of Bionicgoat, only so/sx instead of sp/so and with a 1 wing vs his 8.
Although it could be that Bee and Kam are 4s, and you're a 9...I haven't ruled out Fe subtype totally, because it could account for some of your apparent "extroversion," but I am tentatively going with Si subtype based on some concrete similarities to BG, vague impressionistic overlaps with Winterpark, and your overall behavioral emphases.
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Yeah, Si subtype seems to work. For what it's worth, I can relate more to BG than Bee, even though I get identical vibes for sure from the latter. In Bee's case, most of where I'd be "I'm not like that" is in social terms, since I'm more obviously shy (even though I can become very gregarious and animated) and more rely on people taking me out and giving me a chance to drift along in the social wake (which is perfectly fine, and doesn't contradict my idea of a good time).
I think I glossed over the Si subtype M&O description because of the elements it had of describing such a subtype as being artistic, which I'm not so much, mostly because of not really being able to do things with my hands very well.
For the record, I am still in the Gul=IEE camp. If only because I totally supervise you, Gul.
Quaero Veritas.
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When interacting with you, I feel like I have to hold back on my Ti-based criticism of your ideas, or risk a deterioration of relations. I feel no similar threat from you.
Of course, I was just being silly by proffering that as evidence. My real reasons more to do with your lack of Si "groundedness" in your videos, and your Ne ability to imagine yourself as any type, among other things.
Mind you, my certainty level here is only around 80% -- fairly sure, but not absolutely positive. I haven't really re-investigated your type since you switched your self-typing to SEI.
Quaero Veritas.
Socionics does not describe what sentiments one holds before interacting. If, during a discussion, you criticised my ideas and I felt picked apart or under scrutiny in an uncomfortable way, then that would be an instance of Supervision (or an IJ attacking an EP's PoLR).
What does Si "groundedness" look like? Why is "imagining myself as any type" Ne? Do I actually do that, or is that merely an assumption of yours about the way I think? For that last point, I would argue that that's what has happened. My flurry of typings happens because I get an idea, or something prompts me to doubt my self-type, so this prompts me to go check my sources and resources, and then I get stuck because I have no real way of evaluating which idea I have is the right one.
That just points to weak Logic, not strong Intuition.
Hoho! Well, tell me what you think once you do re-investigate my type. And what does "re-investigating" involve?
Glam, since you think I'm Fi, what is your response to the post by Gilly I quoted?
I won't deny that it comes through in my speech a lot, though. I had Isha pick out which elements I use in speech based on the Semantics of the IMs page, and she chose Fe, Fi, and Si. I would make a similar selection.
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I've often had the impression that Gul's Ne was 'forced', like, "ooh I just talked about something which is random, therefore i'm Ne", so I still go for SEI, because I think he values the Ne, but, in my interactions with SEI's IRL, they often behave in a way which seems to me to be 'scatty' for want of a word, and it reminds me of Gul.
Could be that as you're dominant T (Ti), that it can touch more on the activators PoLR than the creative version does, and could be that Si in the case of Gul, doesn't transfer as well over internet as other functions can, although I think Gul tends to back off before he'd use his dominant S (with Se thrown in) as he seems to not want to fight too much on the forums.Originally Posted by krig the viking
Of course, there's some speculation there, but I thought it may be interesting nonetheless.
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Actually, this post is an example of exactly what I was talking about. I tried to state my disagreement with your self-typing as politely and neutrally as possible, and (from my perspective anyway) you seem to have become all defensive about it.
If I'm coming across as rude or condescending here, I apologize; that is very much not my intent.
As I understand it, Si types give an impression of being "present", "in the here and now," etc., while Ne types give an impression of being "distant", "head in the clouds," etc. My impression from your videos was of the latter.
However, I see that Cyclops has proposed that this may have been an attempt to "force" Ne. Has your behaviour changed since you retyped yourself as SEI? Do you have any videos since that time? I'm curious.
You may have a point here. I'll have to think about it some more.
It involves poring over old posts and videos and not having a social life.
I can see where you're coming from here. Hmmm.
That's a possibility I suppose. I'm reasonably sure I'm Creative subtype, though.
Hahaha, "a silent quest of contesting the types of those who he doesn't see as Alpha"? That's hilarious. My only quest is for the Truth. I am just as happy to discover proof that I am wrong as I am to discover proof that I am right; knowing the truth is all that matters to me. I really don't care who is and isn't Alpha -- I just want to have everything correctly categorized in my brain.
And once again, DCNH subtypes do not "make you appear ESE when you're not". At most, it might make you appear more like ESE than others of your type. An SLI who expresses more emotion than other SLIs does resemble ESE more than they do. He would not, however, ever be likely to be mistaken for ESE. As I said, DCNH simply tries to further divide people who have already been confirmed to be a certain type. The methods by which one arrives at the base type are the same.
On the other hand, from my perspective, you come to conclusions too quickly and defend them too rigidly, without properly considering the possibility that they might be wrong. This, in my opinion, is the source of your many incorrect conclusions.
I was wondering how long it would take for you to start to try to retype me.
For the record, I use terms like "it seems" and "interestingly" deliberately, to acknowledge the possibility of other viewpoints and to try to avoid coming off like a condescending jackass. I'm not always right about everything -- but then I guess that's not something you ever have to worry about, eh Pinocchio?
Last edited by Krig the Viking; 02-18-2010 at 11:30 PM.
Quaero Veritas.
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That's an SEI group of elements...
There are only SF elements there, so you're probably SF. Both Feeling elements are there, but not both Sensing elements, so you're probably Emotivist (the Reinin dichotomy) rather than Tactical (another Reinin dichotomy), because the 8th and 3rd functions are more active than the 7th and 4th functions, respectively. Si is there but not Se, so you're probably either Introverted or not an -valuer. Either way, that singles out SEI - dependent of course on Isha's accuracy in selecting those as your most active elements.
LII-Ne
"Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
- Blair Houghton
Johari
That's an interesting way of looking at things. See, from my end, you state your reasoning, I call you on what I believe is wrong intending to have a discussion and then you think "Oh crap, he's on the defensive".
At this point, yes, I am on the defensive. I'm rather offended that you don't want to have an intelligent discussion with me. If I'm wrong, tell me; if I'm making sense, consider it. I spend a lot of time talking to LIIs (yes, plural. One of my good friends from school was LII, and he certainly wasn't shy about calling me out on "That doesn't make sense. Listen..."), and if you guys actually offended me*, I think I'd know it by now. Think about it
*Isha can be quite a bit sharper than "That doesn't make sense", btw
I'll respond to the rest of your post later. Gotta dash now.
I've been on a short break from posting here, in order to cool my head and try to approach things more dispassionately. But now I'm back!
If I misinterpreted the attitude behind your post, then I'm glad. I much prefer discussions to arguments.
FWIW, Isha's selection of Fe, Fi, and Si from the IE Semantics page is the strongest evidence I've seen thus far of you being Alpha SF. Obviously, she knows you much better than I do. My confidence levels in the IEE typing have declined to the point that I think I should probably let the issue drop until I properly re-evaluate the evidence.
I disagree, I believe I have an excellent comprehension of Alpha values. Furthermore, I have in fact very carefully considered the possibility that I might not be an Fe valuer, and concluded that I do indeed value Fe.
I'm not entirely sure of what you're asking here, but the base upon which I build my conclusions is one of careful study and an attempt to be unbiased and skeptical of my own conclusions.
You misunderstand me. I don't believe that truth depends on one's viewpoint. What is true is true for everyone. What we need to be cautious of is the fact that not everyone perceives the truth correctly. We can't just assume that everything we believe is true; it must be constantly examined for internal logical consistency and correlation with the external evidence.
Coming off as a condescending jackass affects your ability to convince others. If people don't like you, they are much less willing to listen to what you have to say. It shouldn't matter, but it does.
Note that in my post, I explicitly said that being Fe-Dominant IEE could make Gul superficially resemble ESE. As you yourself said, "any resemblance would be rather superficial: a bad observation or energy level, etc." Unlike SLI and ESE, IEE and ESE are often initially confused for one another (due to both having 4-dimensional Fe). An IEE who habitually expressed more Fe than other IEEs would naturally fall victim to that misidentification more often than other IEEs. However, normal non-DCNH-related methods of typing should be sufficient to distinguish the two -- the resemblence is only superficial.
When I first typed Gul as IEE, that was his own self-typing, so it was not a "retyping", and certainly not a "forcible retyping". He changed his opinion on his type, and I didn't, that's all.
I don't know Rubicon or Khola well enough to have a strong opinion on their types.
Quaero Veritas.
I haven't read this whole thread. But you seem ILE to me. I would say Alpha > Delta anyway. no idea re Isha's type. Introvered, thinker, and that's all I've got.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
Exchange I just had with Isha.
Gul: "Palpitations is a very lumpy sounding word [starts grasping at something large and lumpy; I was imagining a giant potato], so I thought the fluttering might be that."
Isha: "That's a very SEI thing to do, guessing a word's definition by how it sounds."
Gul: "No, by how it feels."
Was Isha correct? You decide.
--posted from MacDonald's.
Here's a question.
Intuition does not imply intelligence, but can intelligence mimic being Intuitive?
I'd like to repeat a question originally posited by labcoat: any chance I'm an Alpha NT?
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It's been a very long time since I've suggested anything of that kind. The recent comment was about you being ENxp. I don't estimate the chance of your being ENTp particularly likely at this point and you are definitely not an INTj. At the same time you seem less inhibitted than the average person I type as ISFp, more chaotic than the average person I type as ESFj and more light-hearted/fun/easy-going than the average person I type as ENFp (let's not forget it is a full blown Fi type), so I'll just join you and the rest of the forum in being completely clueless as to what type you are.I'd like to repeat a question originally posited by labcoat: any chance I'm an Alpha NT?
If the only case for you being Ne dominant is that you spew lots of "random crazy ideas," then those people don't have a clue what being Ne dominant means and are typing you on the basis of something very tenuous and tangential to the definition of the IM element.
I would *seriously* recommend reading what Rick has to say about . It's easy to read and most of it is completely true for me. And none of it mentions crazy ideas anywhere.
I was asking, because being Creative subtype, from my understanding, would make me appear to manifest a truly horrendous mix of types on a surface level. Day to day, if Isha is to be believed, I think I'm quite clearly IP: I'm incredibly inert. Case study: spent a day at Isha's place doing nothing but napping on her couch and watching her middle brother play Forza Motorsport. The rest of the time, I tend to spend my hours drifting off or doing nothing much in particular. This doesn't sound very EP, does it?
As well, I'm very passive. I'm quite happy to tag along as people shuffle me around.
Anyway, mere food for thought; I'm not particularly trying to persuade anyone of my typing, as I'm quite happy with it. It's just interesting to try and get to the bottom of why I'm so seemingly untypable.
What I'd actually like to talk about is Isha's typing. Or rather, I'd like to forward one and see what you all think.
ILE?
why is she supposedly rational?
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I think, in general, I'd spend most of my time sitting around or talking. This is what happens if I spend any length of time with a given person. Another example, spent Easter Monday moving from site to site around the city with Isha, again just chatting... though in that case, it was suddenly eight hours later. Similarly with one of my friends at school (an LII), we'd just spend hours doing nothing but talking. Conversations can get cut short if the other person wanders off.
So yeah, I think it's pretty characteristic.
As for when I'm home alone, I tend to play WoW, sleep, talk to people on MSN, fairly inactive things. If I'm studying, I'll be out in my flat's common area and talk with people as they move around.
I was originally going to say "Yes, I can stay alone", but realistically, I almost always wind up talking to people either in my guilds on WoW, or friends on MSN. Sometimes I need to withdraw, and I'm also not really very good with groups; in groups I'll tend to stay on the sidelines and just spectate.
Isha's answer is that no, she doesn't find me suffocating. I haven't ever had anyone else tell me that I'm suffocating, and I think this is probably because I have a natural ability to just merge with the furniture. I'm rather unobtrusive like that.
Does that all answer your questions?
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