The American Presidents, from WWII-present

[Rocket]

Bush Jr strikes me as INFP.

He has been praised for his good sense in selecting people (fits with INFP) and i doubt "lack of foresight" could be attributed personally to him as distinct from his administration. The aggressive foreign policy etc. can be explained by beta values coming to the fore.

I believe Obama & Clinton to be ENFJ.

Oddly enough given the realities of modern american politics i can see a long stream of ENFJ/INFP presidents .... all other types face major pitfalls. Thinkers will inevitably alienate large sections of society with outspoken attitudes and feelers outside of Beta will find it difficult to garner the necessary support from the powerful (which i will assume to tend toward Beta).

[Morcheeba]

I highly doubt Obama is EIE, I think he is actually , which can be confused with an EIE, especially an ni sub. I just get gamma values coming from this guy; and usually an EIE would be much more effective with crowd pleasing; this shout out he gave for his speech about Fort Hood points to role if you ask me:

[Marie84]

Oddly enough given the realities of modern american politics i can see a long stream of ENFJ/INFP presidents .... all other types face major pitfalls. Thinkers will inevitably alienate large sections of society with outspoken attitudes and feelers outside of Beta will find it difficult to garner the necessary support from the powerful (which i will assume to tend toward Beta).

Yah, I think you're onto something here.
American's also have a tendency towards following the cult of personality, especially with it's sensationalistic media, in which Beta NF's can easily manipulate this element for their benefit

[Morcheeba]

George W. Bush is not any where near to being EJ temperment; if anything I would go for IP because of his lack of charisma and lack of articulation. I would say SLI, he gives the impression of Delta values; and someone who purportedly stated that God wanted him to be president does not have in his ego.

[JuJu]

George W. Bush is not any where near to being EJ temperment; if anything I would go for IP because of his lack of charisma and lack of articulation. I would say SLI, he gives the impression of Delta values; and someone who purportedly stated that God wanted him to be president does not have in his ego.

These are good points you make.

Devil's advocate for Bush II's type:
On the other hand though, (i.e. pro-Ej temperament, not delta,) it's tough to account for Bush's insistence on strict regimentation, personally and as President--not just in terms of 'chain-of-command' (Ti) but in terms of promptness, of being purposeful, of being extremely scheduled w/ everything down to his exercise regimen... These are all things one could associate with EJ temperament rather than the IP temperament.

Furthermore, it doesn't make much sense for a Delta to pick a nearly all-beta cabinet and staff... Surely, Delta values would lead him to pick at least one Delta..?

Also, against a typing of SLI: Bush is pretty gregarious in social situations. He's great campaigner... Very likable, personally, (even for me, who disagrees with a lot of what he did politically as President...) Back at Andover, he was a cheerleader (!) In responding to 9/11, he was able to touch ppl with Fe rhetoric. (This makes me think that he's, at least, Fe valuing, if not leading.)

Bush II is a difficult typing overall, I think... I've seen him typed in literally every quadra... And I still don't know.

[Gilly]

I'd say Bush Jr. is ESE.

[JuJu]

I'd say Bush Jr. is ESE.

The more that I think about it, the more I agree with you... What is it about Bush II that makes you think ESE..?

I wonder if we see the same things in him, Socionics-wise.

[Cyrano]

George W. Bush is not any where near to being EJ temperment; if anything I would go for IP because of his lack of charisma and lack of articulation. I would say SLI, he gives the impression of Delta values; and someone who purportedly stated that God wanted him to be president does not have in his ego.

OH Good GOD NO! Please not SLI. I'd have to have type change surgery.

[Blaze]

i kinda had obama pegged as an IEI. he totally seems introverted plus ethical. i thought IEE for awhile, but no way. def beta, def IEI.

i agree with SEE for reagan and for FDR. the rest i am not sure about. overall, it's pretty hard to type politicians since they're always pandering to the crowd, i imagine there's a high level of fakery there.

[Morcheeba]

i kinda had obama pegged as an IEI. he totally seems introverted plus ethical. i thought IEE for awhile, but no way. def beta, def IEI.

i agree with SEE for reagan and for FDR. the rest i am not sure about. overall, it's pretty hard to type politicians since they're always pandering to the crowd, i imagine there's a high level of fakery there.

Yeah, politics makes socionics difficult on the basis of all the fakeness and the ability for these people to be puppets for whatever the public thinks they want from a president. Of course, what people think they want and what they really want are two different things.

[silverchris9]

Also, the fact that Bush is culturally behind is part of what makes it easy to type him as delta, when I don't think that he is. This sounds stupid, but my rationale is that generally we associate delta with the "old age" quadra, and perhaps the fact that Bush is culturally "old" or conservative makes it easy to view him as socionics'ly "old" or conservative? Also, although I know typing by weak functions is bad, I totally see Bush as Ne polr > Ni polr, largely for the reasons that I've talked about with him just not accepting the change that has occurred not only in how other groups see America, morality, and the Republican party, but in how America, moral leaders, and the Republican party see themselves, respectively (weakness in accepting new ideas).

[JuJu]

Obama could be EXI.

Having watched Obama for awhile now, I don't believe there's a snowball's chance in hell he is Delta... His valuing of Ni has been discussed in this thread.

His inter-type relations don't give any indication that he's alpha or delta.

[Morcheeba]

Having watched Obama for awhile now, I don't believe there's a snowball's chance in hell he is Delta... His valuing of Ni has been discussed in this thread.

His inter-type relations don't give any indication that he's alpha or delta.

I'm in agreement with you on this one; though it doesn't happen often.

[JuJu]

I'm in agreement with you on this one; though it doesn't happen often.

LOL... If I keep trying, maybe it'll happen again...

Do you have an opinion on VP Joe Biden's type..?

Most of the Presidents, I've found have picked a VP in their quadra (SEE Roosevelt picked ILI Truman) or in the adjacent quadra (EIE Kennedy picked SEE Johnson.) So maybe Biden's type could help.

P.S. I'm beginning to find the ESTp typing for Bush II plausible... There's been good stuff written in this thread, for sure.

[JuJu]

Rocket -- that's a good suggestion for George W. Bush... I think that the key to understanding Bush's type is in his (personal) inter-type relations... For example, does anyone have an idea about his wife, Laura's Sociotype?

Morcheeba -- my instinct tells me that you're right about Obama's type, i.e. that he's ENTj... (If he seems XXFx, it may be b/c of the social justice/human rights bent of the current Democratic Party platform.) In Socionics terms--what's disappointing a lot of people right now about Obama, I think, is that he's not the fiery beta NF change-agent portrayed during the campaign... Rather he's politically pragmatic, and moderate, like Bush 1, another ENTj.

Marie84 -- It's true, I can't shake the idea that Carter is SEI... As for VI, Carter's demeanor/gaze is in line with a SEI typing.

About future U.S. President's types:

It's been pretty much a rule over the past 75 years--U.S. Presidents are either Gamma or Beta, (the ONLY exception being Carter--a one-term anomaly and direct reaction to Nixon.) Gore, an Alpha, nearly made it in 2000.

I think that this will hold true... That most US Presidents will continue to be Beta or Gamma. (For example, McCain, in this last Presidential election, was Gamma. John Kerry, in the previous election, was INFp.) The types with the best chances are, as usual, SEE, LIE, ESI, IEI, and EIE, (with lots of LSIs behind them...) I think that ILIs might have more difficulty now than in, say, Truman's time.