Making things work in Supervision

[DirectorAbbie]

It's possible supervision relationships can survive a marriage ... but of the ones i know

The most extreme:
ENFJ(man)-ISFP(woman) At first he was amazed at her - compliments like her cooking was just fabulous and in the kitchen things just appeared. The relationship ended with him under evaluation in a psychiatric ward about 9 months later, on the edge of being diagnosed as requiring ongoing treatment and life changing medication. I remember it well there was absolutely nothing wrong with him before he met her nor in the last 10 years since that time.

Another ENFJ(man)-ISFP(woman) lasted 10 years and with kids. In the later part of the marriage the guy spent a lot of time perched on the roof trying to escape her ! ... seems funny but i doubt he saw it that way. In the end from frustration she "crossed the line" precipitating divorce (ie cheated on him). Apparently she is still unsure what the problem was between them in the first place. He's obviously learned his lesson and just recently married another ISFP ...

Another was an INFP(man) - ENTJ(woman). This marriage lasted 3 years but serious problems appeared after the first. Again the man ended up on medication (lol) and the problems in the relationship (mood swings, aggression etc) soon began to be attributed to that .... turns out there was not much need for medication after the divorce and he could hold a job.

These are all examples of females as supervisors. It's more natural for men to be head of the house, so it's probably worse for the female to be the supervisor than the man.

[Azeroffs]

It's possible supervision relationships can survive a marriage ... but of the ones i know

The most extreme:
ENFJ(man)-ISFP(woman) At first he was amazed at her - compliments like her cooking was just fabulous and in the kitchen things just appeared. The relationship ended with him under evaluation in a psychiatric ward about 9 months later, on the edge of being diagnosed as requiring ongoing treatment and life changing medication. I remember it well there was absolutely nothing wrong with him before he met her nor in the last 10 years since that time.

Another ENFJ(man)-ISFP(woman) lasted 10 years and with kids. In the later part of the marriage the guy spent a lot of time perched on the roof trying to escape her ! ... seems funny but i doubt he saw it that way. In the end from frustration she "crossed the line" precipitating divorce (ie cheated on him). Apparently she is still unsure what the problem was between them in the first place. He's obviously learned his lesson and just recently married another ISFP ...

Another was an INFP(man) - ENTJ(woman). This marriage lasted 3 years but serious problems appeared after the first. Again the man ended up on medication (lol) and the problems in the relationship (mood swings, aggression etc) soon began to be attributed to that .... turns out there was not much need for medication after the divorce and he could hold a job.

Damn...

[thePirate]

wow this sucks, Im so fond of my 'supervisor'. I seriously cant see how the hell this would develop. the one about the dudes getting psychiatric help after is insane

[Rocket]

.... but that an extrovert would have an easier time bugging an introvert than vice versa.

Not true ... over the years i've had 2 an INFJ supervisors.

The first one before i knew anything about socionics. She was a subordinate at the time and in the end was dealt with very decisively with a severe show of .. it was sad but she moved on and never talked to me again.

More recently (and after learning socionics) i've had another INFJ who took a particular interest in me. At first things were pleasant enough but after a while she used to deliberately seek out and (ultimately) deliberately manufacture situations to highlight my 'weaknesses' and always to an audience. She had a "social mission" something to 'prove' and was determined to do this regardless of whether i was doing anything deserving condemnation or not. The proverbial "Flies to shit" scenario.

Now ofcourse you don't muck around with an ENTP like that ... risky business!
In response i simply avoided contact and where inevitable i maintained civility regardless of provocation (and yes they were genuine provocations designed to damage me in some way - not incidental ones that were overblown by -PoLR). Naturally over time the social cost was all to her (and it was enormous), people simply did not appreciate that sort of provocation without reason - esp when i deliberately highlighted her actions by turning the focus back on to her after an 'attack'.

But Abbie what i experienced shows me that at least one type of introvert can be every bit as determined as an extrovert.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[DirectorAbbie]

I tried to think of an example of a supervisee marraige, then I remembered-my mom's mom is an ESI, and my mom's dad is an SLE. They're an old couple and have raised 5 kids together. She does behind his back, like sending birthday money to grandkids without his knowledge

[07490]

I tried to think of an example of a supervisee marraige, then I remembered-my mom's mom is an ESI, and my mom's dad is an SLE. They're an old couple and have raised 5 kids together. She does behind his back, like sending birthday money to grandkids without his knowledge

that is what my mother (ESI) do similarly too.

[Bardia]

It's possible supervision relationships can survive a marriage ... but of the ones i know

The most extreme:
ENFJ(man)-ISFP(woman) At first he was amazed at her - compliments like her cooking was just fabulous and in the kitchen things just appeared. The relationship ended with him under evaluation in a psychiatric ward about 9 months later, on the edge of being diagnosed as requiring ongoing treatment and life changing medication. I remember it well there was absolutely nothing wrong with him before he met her nor in the last 10 years since that time.

Another ENFJ(man)-ISFP(woman) lasted 10 years and with kids. In the later part of the marriage the guy spent a lot of time perched on the roof trying to escape her ! ... seems funny but i doubt he saw it that way. In the end from frustration she "crossed the line" precipitating divorce (ie cheated on him). Apparently she is still unsure what the problem was between them in the first place. He's obviously learned his lesson and just recently married another ISFP ...

Another was an INFP(man) - ENTJ(woman). This marriage lasted 3 years but serious problems appeared after the first. Again the man ended up on medication (lol) and the problems in the relationship (mood swings, aggression etc) soon began to be attributed to that .... turns out there was not much need for medication after the divorce and he could hold a job.

While this may all be true it doesn't mean that supervision relationships can cause people to develop mental disorders. If they developed a disorder it is because they already had the genetic predisposition for the disorder. Granted the supervision relationship might have caused the stress that triggered the disorders but being in a supervision relationship isn't itself going to cause a disorder. Any relationship or just time might have eventually caused the disorder to develop.

[Rocket]

Well this is my point, what may in fact be a natural phenomenon of sustained "mental discomfort" (ie. as a result of a supervision relationship) is then labelled as a "mental disorder". Thats kinda like a small step from a "physical" disorder that has to be treated with drugs .... before you know it a downward spiral of drugs, dependency and helplessness.

Reminds me of a chance event several years back when i was waiting for my partner to undergo some tests in a hospital ward, there was a couple seated next to me the that seemed to have something really intense going on. The woman was really forceful, determined/animated/abrupt in a controlled way and the guy really submissive ... you might say cowering, speaking in hushed pleading tones. I started paying a little attention to the interaction and soon after figured the guy for an INTJ and the woman an ESTP (whoa! ... lol) .... I simply could not help thinking "Buddy, i think i've diagnosed your problem!!! ....she's sitting right next to you .... get rid of the bitch and you'll be OK."

This went on for about 25 minutes until two doctors came out to him with a swag of results .... blood tests, xrays you name it. They ASSURED him that there was absolutely nothing wrong with him that they could find. When he objected .... they went on to say that if he still had thoughts of "hurting" himself then perhaps he should see a psychiatrist. The guy was dumbfounded he just simply could not believe that there was nothing physically wrong with him.

Just after the two doctors left his wife suddenly turns to him. Gives him one final and very public blast for being useless, tells him he was wasting her time and storms out.

After i had left with my partner the guy was still there waiting by himself in despair.......

[DirectorAbbie]

After i had left with my partner the guy was still there waiting by himself in despair.......

And you didn''t say anything to him?

[Rocket]

And you didn''t say anything to him?

Yep i understand how it might look. And trust me being an ILE i generally poke my nose in other peoples business and offer (gratuitous) solutions more than i should. However just consider
[1] I was in there supporting my own partner who was going through problems of her own (not psychological ones thank goodness)
[2] The other one is imagine how receptive this guy would have been had i played amateur psychologist for the 5 minutes i had available .... he was in a hospital and if the doctors were at a loss... who am i to step in ?

The story is sad but relayed to all here simply for the purpose of illustrating a point. Supervision relations can in my view devastate peoples lives and they go under the radar missed by almost everyone in society including councilors, psychologists and doctors ... and that is the tragedy.

[DirectorAbbie]

Supervision relations can in my view devastate peoples lives and they go under the radar missed by almost everyone in society including councilors, psychologists and doctors ... and that is the tragedy.

Oh, supervision. I thought you said she was an ESFp.

[Rocket]

@Diana
Yes the the bit about working with your own quadra is a good thing, but here its less about establishing a pecking order (i don't know maybe it is for Beta?) and more about complementary skills working in conjunction with shared values to attain synergy.

With the leadership stuff ... seems to me some sort of unwarranted leap has been made here. If you're alluding to the INTJ guy i mentioned then i'll hurry to add that i was describing what i perceived as the negative mental effects of supervision, not an inherently hapless individual needing to adjust and accept his underdog status. That same dynamic i described could just as easily apply to an ESTP under the supervision of an ISFJ ... and yes i have seen it happen.

[Rocket]

Oh, supervision. I thought you said she was an ESFp.

No problem Abbie
... there is one point of interest for me thats come out of all this this and you've sort of hinted at it in a previous post.

Most of the "married couple" supervision described here so far it does indeed seem to be the woman who is the supervisor.

Just makes me wonder whether there is some sort of "natural instinct" that makes women shy away from their supervisors and gravitate to their supervisees - perhaps in the mistaken belief they can "fix" them?