I agree, but shush, gotta take the fire out of this thread.Originally Posted by Isha
I think "festive" is overrated.
I made a less festive thread for you instead.
I agree, but shush, gotta take the fire out of this thread.I think "festive" is overrated.
I made a less festive thread for you instead.
*ahem*You linked to the "Post New Thread" Form.
Critical Te fumble
Here: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ut-thread.html
thePirate makes plenty of mistakes. For example he doesn't seem to understand the difference between your & you're.
Also, unlike my "matoor," he doesn't do it on purpose.
He's just a jackass.
</thread>
lol. ass pirates posts aren't arguments they're ad hominems. they don't justify a reasonable response. a reasonable response is a waste of your time. infact his posts are so devoid of content it's impossible to respond.
says mr kurt cobain is a delta
I think Ill just call you kurt to remind how of such buffoonry
<Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" isand not
you know instead of spouting off so much you should get laid
or in terms of INTp capabilities, run a virtual simulation
perhaps scower for toys on the net
<Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is
lol, more adhominems. why are you so angsty? are you on drugs or something? were you raped as a child? I really want to know. I can actually almost see ENFp for you, in ways. But if you are ENFp, something has to explain your behavior, that's for sure.
haha, oh theres an explanation all right
Im just not telling you
<Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is
So it must of been gay rape by a stepfather or something of that nature. Well, my condolences.
There really won't be a better reason than "he wanted to" and that the "self-important and takes-it-all-too-serious nature" of some of the posts here inspired thePirate to cut loose and take action! Swinging the mighty axe of go-fuck-yourself awesomeness.
He's not angry or on drugs or had a bad childhood. Well, I mean, none of those things have caused his outbursts. But he's too far gone to stop, it's all momentum now!
Last edited by Wrong Way Ticket; 12-10-2009 at 07:39 AM.
+1
hahaha, you're awesome for that
<Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is
no, there is definitely something wrong with him.
why, because if there wasnt, enfj would be another fuck up on your list of erroneous typings?
<Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is
you know I have the precious Fi you seek, crazedrat. the very element that you look for deep inside of you. you know that void that you dont know what to do with? that deep emptiness that you cant pinpoint exactly why it is you suffer such torment? I have the key, the key to heal it all.
but none of it for you
you coward
<Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is
lol. does that mean i have the ability to make sense when i talk? is that what you're looking for? lmao. gay rape fantasy gone wild. fuck im getting out of here. btw stop misrepresenting me. and for the record.. there's nothing you can say which will shake my security in my knowledge of socionics. really, i'm not feeling threatening by this. you might take another approach. insult my sex life or something. use SeFi against me, that might work.
thats your definition of Te?
your pathetic
<Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is
um... actually it's not. lmao. yeah, in language Te does use implicit linear logic instead of inferential logic, but language is not all Te is. So no, that's not my definition of Te.
God this is so weak. seriously. Stop it
<Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is
What an interesting thread.
My opinion - swearing isn't Se, i've heard too many Delta's swear, for instance on a building site, some of those guys would swear like troopers. It's probably why the person is swearing which could be related to Se - the reasons for it, for making a (blunt) point, or eg for dramatisation and impact, these could be some dividing reasons.
Anyway, some people don't like it, but everyone does it at somepoint.
Also, I have to agree with someone who mentioned earlier something about Kim being sort of non ENFp'ish. I don't want to re-type someone, because that's a futile thing to re-type anyone in this discussion or even on the forum, unless they are seriously interested (and other have the time) even then it doesn't always work, but imho, she isn't like the typical ENFp range.
There's been almost no Fi from some quarters in this thread, let's look at what Ricks said here;
I can't see how Kim describes herself as someone with a warm and sensitive attitude, especially in the post she deleted as I recall, however, the internet is full of crackpots, and I can't in fairness exclude myself from that, since I contribute.
I'm just glad that there's plenty of real life people who are generally decent people and do fit in somewhat with what Rick says.
Also, Kim an infantile? Maybe, sounds more like one of those aggressive victims, always wagging the finger at people and as she says, won't ever stop thinking you know better than everyone, good luck with that when it comes to having to actually negotiate and appreciate someone elses viewpoint.
Of course, you still could be ENFp, you might be ENFj, but then, socionics doesn't explain everything.
It doen't matter though, I mean:
Surely you must have realised by now that I wouldn't go anywhere near you? Seems like we will never communicate particularly well.
Oh dear.
I don't think any type has any inherent horrible flaws, so that's why the "IEE flaws" might not come across as horrible. :wink:
Looking back I see how my reaction to Cyclop's post can be seen as an overreaction. I felt it was condescending and have thought this about some of his posts in the past. I might very well have misread it and apologize for that. But wtf about the bs after?!
As for the stereotype of "cute and ditzy" and so on, I like it when my boyfriend and my friends call me that in real life because I think I am that, but they don't reduce me to that because they know I am not just that. They know I am also serious and hardworking. Perhaps I am projecting something, I don't know.
I tend to overreact on the internet and in real life and I have a temper and I am sorry. I do sometimes want attention and sometimes I don't. In this case I posted a list of what bother me about myself and on which I am working looking for feedback from IEEs (what I should have pointed out perhaps). And really, so what if I was looking for attention?! Get over it.
As for SLI feedback (since Cyclops and ThePirate say I don't listen to my dual), I lived with an SLI for six years and in moments when I complained about things or felt bad about myself he would say something like: "You think too much. Let's go for a drive to Home Depot," (if I was upset about someone, he would say something llike "people are stupid. Let's go for a drive to Home Depot") which was PERFECT. So maybe that makes me a different type or him or I don't know.
I absolutely sure I am not EIE. My second most likely type would be SEE.
So: I overreacted, I apologize, I might have wanted attention (I seriously don't know), I might be a fat fucking arrogant stupid posturing asshole, and maybe I am secretly even an ENFj who is infiltrating delta.
Now relax and have a freaking cookie. Cyclops, you can still kiss my fat ass.
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
I don't mind if I do.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
I'd rather go to the pub than go to Home Depot. (Our version is called :"Bunnings," I think)
something you did hit a vulnerable part in cyclops. I've experienced this with my dual too, where I project alot of my hangups and flaws onto them. It happens more in my mind than it does in real life. But it's come out in real life as insecurity a few times, especially a few years ago. It doesn't happen anymore. I think that's what this was ..
Oh, I hate Home Depot. It was just a filler example (he does love it though, lol). He would just suggest to do something because he knows that doing something "real" gets me out of a funk.
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
I have definitely experienced this, not only with my dual. But I think this is partly the reason why my dual relationship was more rocky than it had to be.
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
I'd do both. Home Depot could be replaced with Frys (or even better, the local electronics place here)
you're Cyclops?
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
OK, I thought about this.
I think a main part of the issue here is to do with culture.
And i'm not having a go at you or Americans here, and thank you for your apology, but to me and many other Europeans also from what I can tell from my travels, Americans often come across as loud, brash, unreserved, boistrous and ... unashamed, and this sort of thing, although Americans that I see in Europe seem even unaware of the way they behave, is actually inherently offensive to many people in Europe (i've seen peoples reactions on the continent to Americans and the same person and their reaction to me).
One can spot them a mile away when they are here.
Typically, Delta's here are more reserved, respectful and humble, even the ENFp's who could be said to be the most outgoing of the quadra.
I think that what I commented on (and what thepirate commented on - wether you like him or not) is your - what comes across as for instance - unashamedness of the more negative points about yourself that you posted here (and the ones you deleted), it's like Americans (and how you come across) are boasting even about their faults like they are proud of them. I think it's a culture thing, and it's not really how most people operate here, but it's more...normal in the States.
I actually struggle to combine American people with Deltas at many times.
Of course, you are I suppose a product of your culture, as are I, but I wonder in general, how do the type descriptions of Delta apply to American Deltas?
When you said this again, it suddenly clicked with the "Yank" accent, someone saying such a thing where I am from would be laughed at, but it's probably seen as cool and marking ones territory or something in America.Cyclops, you can still kiss my fat ass
In retrospect, and again - not to be taken offense at by you (incase you do), it's quite possible that you are just being normal as per your culture, and my reaction is simply typical of an ISTp in this vicinity. I know 4 ISTp's IRL and they are typical of the qualities I describe and those who come across as excessively loud and some of the other things I mentioned tend to be an antagonistic thing to them.
Maybe the whole loud and proud American culture thing feels like a sort of 'encroaching' on their own Si internal territory, in a way.
Anyway ... it could well lead to a bigger discussion about culture and type manifestation, I suspect.
Last edited by Cyclops; 12-11-2009 at 08:18 AM.
many of the overworking conservatives are delta. there are many ways to cliche american culture.
I'm not going to get into a debate about the cliche of American culture, I am simply speaking about something like 99.9% of those that i've actually met, and i've encountered quite a few not only here but mostly when backpacking. I could share plenty of actual stories in this regard, if I had the time or the inclination, who knows, if someone with worldy experience contributes, maybe I will?
And of course there are exceptions in just about every generalisation and just about every trend, but i'd be a fool to ignore what I actually have observed and what others I know have, that's really all on the part of discussion with yourself, hmmm.
Perhaps I'm misreading what you're saying, but it doesn't sound like boosting of ones faults, it looks like an attempt to connect with others who may relate to her (perceived) faults. This is very typical behavior of Fi's.
Fi's like to speak about personal sentiments as it bridges gaps in understanding and connects people, creating bonds.
Maybe it's a difference in culture (I don't know) but it seems odd that you dislike what Kim is trying to do here;
"SLIs are easy people to talk to about one's personal sentiments about life, people, and relationships, since they listen closely and with genuine interest as long as the person they are hearing out is not worked up or agitated.
SLIs appreciate such qualities as concern, tact, and openness about one's feelings. These are the kinds of people they are drawn to for friendship."
from
EII INFj
Forum status: retired
Well, it sounds like you don't get it then, I can't be bothered reading through the thread again, but that's the response that was obtained and i'm not the only person that spots it.
Hopefully this guy isn't joking, maybe he get's it too.
BTW, I find it *really* unlikely you are INFj, your T is just too good when you are talking about socionics on these forums, and as we've discussed before about for instance the other aspects of Fi - dealing with the known and the unknown for instance - you're lack of Ne seemed possible to me, given that you didn't lock on to the new possibilities, instead sticking to the existing traditions.
My "T"? Being an ethical type doesn't equate to a lack of intelligence or/and understanding of theories. Ekaterina Filatova is an EII and she is far better at explaining Socionics, as well as composing articles on it, than I am.
I personally have a hard time doing this and thus rely on others who're more competent in this regard, hence why I post links to information rather than attempting to explain things in my own words.
Compare me to say, Krig (LII) who is excellent at composing his own interpretations on the theory.
So even though it likely wasn't your intention to compliment me I'm flattered at the prospect of being seen as a logical type, even though I know I'm horribly flawed and lost when it comes to Ti-Te matters
Te valuers will not blindly except information, especially from sources they have little to no confidence in.you're lack of Ne seemed possible to me, given that you didn't lock on to the new possibilities, instead sticking to the existing traditions
"Reliable information rather than the finished analysis is what attracts the individual; facts and demonstrative explanations, not answers limited to the conclusions. For the same reason, he avoids people who are inclined to give out unreliable or simply untruthful information."
EII INFj
Forum status: retired
Congratulations on your ability to logically maneuvre yourself round my postI never said anything about intelligence being equated to ethics, i'm talking about your handling of the information, Ephemeros, a Ti type, has also commented you to say that he thinks your Ti is better than his, so it's a compliment indeed.
Diana at one point used to think she was INFj, then changed to ISFj, as far as I know she considers ISTj for herself now.
I think there's a good chance you are just a shy ISTj.
You could speak to Elevate to see if you have things in common with her, she's INFj, but I should warn you, her perceptions of my characters was completely on the mark, the sort of thing an Fi dominant with Ne would be expected to be good at, things you've said about me from time to time have been wrong, maybe it's role Fi.
The information makes sense, and it was explained by examples that's the most reliable information there is.Te valuers will not blindly except information, especially from sources they have little to no confidence in.
"Reliable information rather than the finished analysis is what attracts the individual; facts and demonstrative explanations, not answers limited to the conclusions. For the same reason, he avoids people who are inclined to give out unreliable or simply untruthful information."
And, Te valuers will accept dodgy information, Te ego's less so.
I'd be interested in hearing how you are horribly flawed in T matters, some new information could shed a good light on this and I could re-evaluate to ISFj.
I'd imagine that you'd choose Ryu as your good source of information, isn't he your dual, but you go for the Ti Krig, could just be that he's better than any Te type you can think of to refer to on the forums, or you prefer Ti.
Well, she may not get it, but she's not the only one.. I have no idea what you're going on about. It may be because Kim deleted these posts of hers. At this point, your thoughts are just invisible to me. If you're interested in talking about this publicly you should summarize these deleted posts first. I also see no reason to doubt INFj for marie, and ISTj is a crappy typing for her.. don't really feel like explaining why either.
Be that as it may, my views and application of socionics is vastly different than Ephemeros/Pinocchios, and I imagine yours as wellCongratulations on your ability to logically maneuvre yourself round my post
KDiana at one point used to think she was INFj, then changed to ISFj, as far as I know she considers ISTj for herself now.
If you believe I have strong Ti+Se, from reading my posts, than it's going to be very difficult for me to explain why that's a ridiculous typing for me.I think there's a good chance you are just a shy ISTj.
For one, if I were a Ti valuer I wouldn't care if you, or anyone else, attacked or hurt other posters feelings (or what I perceive as an attack), though I just did that when I felt you were attacking Kim.
While I don't know Elevate and thus can't comment on your perceptions of this poster (I'm guessing she's a poster?).You could speak to Elevate to see if you have things in common with her, she's INFj, but I should warn you, her perceptions of my characters was completely on the mark, the sort of thing an Fi dominant with Ne would be expected to be good at, things you've said about me from time to time have been wrong, maybe it's role Fi.
The only perception I have of you is that you seem to become hostile at times when (1)someone disagrees with you and (2)when someone expresses any Fi sentiments. I remember you having stated I was whining, or something along those lines, when I briefly brought-up the relationship and differences I have with my LSI father. You also did this to Somavision/King when he talked about his family and childhood, and now you're doing it to Kim for talking about her sentiments about her perceived flaws.
That's a matter of opinionThe information makes sense, and it was explained by examples that's the most reliable information there is.
Te valuers will listen to information, but not accept it. Please find me any sources that state Fi's will blindly agree with someone just because said person believes they're rightAnd, Te valuers will accept dodgy information, Te ego's less so.
Why should I? No matter what I say about myself you'll probably spin it to suit your agenda. I'm not here to receive "help" on my typeI'd be interested in hearing how you are horribly flawed in T matters, some new information could shed a good light on this and I could re-evaluate to ISFj.
Maybe that's because both you and Ephemeros/Pinocchios have linked me to being a Ti, not TeI'd imagine that you'd choose Ryu as your good source of information, isn't he your dual, but you go for the Ti Krig, could just be that he's better than any Te type you can think of to refer to on the forums, or you prefer Ti.
EII INFj
Forum status: retired
You really think that ALL ISTj's don't have feelings? I've known ISTj's to cry at movies, of course ISTj's can care about others, they are human beings just like the rest of us.
There are some people of any type who would care less and some who would care more than other people. Females in general tend to care more about people in general.
This sort of black box thinking you employ makes me think you are Ti with Se, it's all rules and stuff, socionics rules and procedures are perfect for you, your commentry on ISTj show's you don't consider gender, upbringing, or any other myriad of factors that can affect a person.
She has posted here as Sandals.While I don't know Elevate and thus can't comment on your perceptions of this poster (I'm guessing she's a poster?).
I'm aware of your perceptions of me, they are incorrect, which is exactly what I was commenting on.The only perception I have of you is that you seem to become hostile at times when (1)someone disagrees with you and (2)when someone expresses any Fi sentiments. I remember you having stated I was whining, or something along those lines, when I briefly brought-up the relationship and differences I have with my LSI father. You also did this to Somavision/King when he talked about his family and childhood, and now you're doing it to Kim for talking about her sentiments about her perceived flaws.
Good of you to insist, you with weak Se.Te valuers will listen to information, but not accept it. Please find me any sources that state Fi's will blindly agree with someone just because said person believes they're right
You attack a LOT for an INFj, you seem to see conflict like:Why should I? No matter what I say about myself you'll probably spin it to suit your agenda. I'm not here to receive "help" on my typeI've seen you argue with Ephemeros quite stubbornly and you DON'T like to back down, you seem to see conflict quite quickly and you are quick to get involved, unlike a typical INFj you don't get involved to smooth it over, you get involved to attack, much more in keeping with ISTj.The only perception I have of you is that you seem to become hostile at times when ............
The information you value is independent of me or Ephemeros so I don't understand what you mean by this. His opinion of your type is independent of my suggestion, and i'm sure vica versa.Maybe that's because both you and Ephemeros/Pinocchios have linked me to being a Ti, not Te
Last edited by Cyclops; 12-11-2009 at 02:43 PM.
I'm not suggesting that logical types do not have feelings. What I'm trying to point out is that FiNe's tend to pick-up on offenses (even if they're not really offensive) very easily, and thus may react by treating the person they feel has been hurt how they would wish to be treated. This isn't a natural/common priority for many other types, who may be less sensitive to such matters
I have not noticed gender to have any influence on the ability or tendency to care and empathize, it just may be more common for women to act in this manner since it's generally a gender expectation, though that doesn't mean it's sincere. Like wise for men who're expected to conceal their feelings and "tough it out"There are some people of any type who would care less and some who would care more than other people. Females in general tend to care more about people in general.
I don't place any restriction on other peoples beliefs, everyone is free (and should be) to believe what they want. I will provide an opinion or observation of something, but I will never enforce anyone to have to agree with me.This sort of black box thinking you employ makes me think you are Ti with Se, it's all rules and stuff, socionics rules and procedures are perfect for you, your commentry on ISTj show's you don't consider gender, upbringing, or any other myriad of factors that can affect a person.
Also, I have posted, more than once, about how other factors can play into type.
example:
"Perhaps this is more due to other factors than actual subtype. I don't believe every aspect of a person can be explained by Socionics, they're also environmental issues among other things"
How are they "incorrect"? Are you denying that you didn't attack me or Somavision on the Socionics.com board when we disagreed with some of your views on Socionics and also when we posted about our families?She has posted here as Sandals.
I'm aware of your perceptions of me, they are incorrect, which is exactly what I was commenting on.
Or how about calling Kim "self loathing" on the first page of this thread because she made a post about her perceived faults?
How is any of this Fi valuing?
When have I attacked you? Have I ever called you names, put you down? Disagreeing with you is not an attackYou attack a LOT for an INFj, you seem to see conflict like: I've seen you argue with Ephemeros quite stubbornly and you DON'T like to back down, you seem to see conflict quite quickly and you are quick to get involved, unlike a typical INFj you don't get involved to smooth it over, you get involved to attack, much more in keeping with ISTj.
and I don't know what your mental picture of an EII is but it's not someone who isn't tenacious about their personal values
EII INFj
Forum status: retired
Diana and Marie don't seem similar to me.
Marie is a much easier fit for EII.
EII's, especially Fi subtype, can seem very dry and almost 'logical' in their focus on Te and clarity of it.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
I was born and raised in Europe by European parents and moved to the US as an adult.
It is your interpretation that I am unashamed about my faults. I am not, quite the contrary. I have on several occasions pointed out that I work on these things. I posted these things because in the past, threads in which IEEs discuss how they deal with challenges have helped me understand how to go about bettering myself.
If you read it as boasting about my faults or unashamedly seeking attention and being a cold bitch, then I don't think I can convince you otherwise. But I do wonder why you feel so strongly about this?
PS: Nobody who has ever met me in real life would describe me as brash, loud, and in-your-face. The internet medium really does distort things.
“Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
― Anais Nin
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