Delta Lounge

[Beautiful sky]

I DON'T like that SEE are so manipulative in the "please help me, I'm senselessly incapable of everything" so much so that they lure in the LSE who think "wow, I'm really useful and I feel like a man's man now by helping her *award me as king*) only to find out that after a while all the LSE is doing is giving and giving senselessly to someone who keeps taking and taking. This isn't duality people. If it were, I would like to learn the ways, the skilzzzz of the SEE so I can get those LSE who pay no attention to me because well, externally I seem as though I can manage myself quite well. Internally, well, that's a different story.

LSE help EII by staying focused on tasks, we do the same for them in helping them not lose track of time. LSE help me notice things around me that I miss (not necessarily objects, although we know how that goes) but things that happen, things we need to observe happening, etc, by waking us up, getting us to pay attention, etc.

Yes, I can come up with a few things I'd like to give to an LSE to do. Like feed the fishies, and fatten them up for sushi. But, seriously, enough is enough, I need skillzzzz.

[Beautiful sky]

I love fudge brownies and I don't like my indigestion.

[Cuddly McFluffles]

I had my first turn in poetry workshop today! It wasn't nearly as bad as I had anticipated. They did have some suggestions, but it seemed that it was relatively clear and pleasant-sounding overall. Also, one of the things I really disliked in the poem (it felt like a cop-out, a sort of "tell, not show") turned out to be something the teacher complimented me on. I'm somewhat afraid to touch the papers, as I don't know what criticisms lurk in there.

I have another poem up for workshop for next week, which makes me happy. I feel like I'm finally hitting my stride here, and I'm glad my pantoum hadn't gone up for workshop; it was atrocious. I find that iambic pentameter, which we've been working with for the last couple of poems, is far easier to pull out (especially in a short period) than pantoums or sestinas. I'm also beginning to find subject matter I can work with. I've spent a fair chunk of the semester thus far feeling very uncreative in the poetry department, mostly because I tend to write from introspection and angst (also absurdity) but am currently in a place where I am relatively OK internally. If I'm smart, I'll start trying to branch out. One of my old friends told me to just go somewhere and draw inspiration from whatever's around me; if I can motivate myself, that may be a great thing to do.

[anndelise]

Ryene, I admire people who can (do) write poetry, I don't consider myself creative enough that way (though I,ve given it a few pathetic attempts). I admire even more those who take the risk in sharing it with others. (even if as a class assignment) Anyways, your post had me smiling.

[Cuddly McFluffles]

Ryene, I admire people who can (do) write poetry, I don't consider myself creative enough that way (though I,ve given it a few pathetic attempts). I admire even more those who take the risk in sharing it with others. (even if as a class assignment) Anyways, your post had me smiling.

Thank you! It's not my preferred form; I default to developing novels in my free time (I say developing because I spend more time on the characters - and occasionally the settings or cultures - than on actually writing the darn things). I feel the same way you do about composing music. I love to listen to people who are good at it, but (and probably because) I have little confidence in that area.

[anndelise]

Thank you! It's not my preferred form; I default to developing novels in my free time (I say developing because I spend more time on the characters - and occasionally the settings or cultures - than on actually writing the darn things). I feel the same way you do about composing music. I love to listen to people who are good at it, but (and probably because) I have little confidence in that area.

I don't read poetry myself. My daughter writes it quite a bit.
I actually admire anyone who is willing to show their creative works, no matter how good/bad.
I will often read a novel and think how much it sucked and how the character's acted weirdly and/or with motivations other than what the author had described, etc. but then I remind myself that hey...at least the author FINISHED a story AND took the risk sending it in for publication. It might be a sucky story, but the author had guts. Guts I don't seem to have anymore... As my partially started attempts display.

And yes, I also prefer to work on characters, their motives, internal thoughts, and their interactions with each other. I'm not too big on building culture though. And I absolutely detest physically describing anything. Sensory descriptions and culture building are always where I get blocked. (I'm now homeschooling my daughter, and one of the books she'll be learning from is how to model 'good' writing from various genre (fiction parts, business letters, etc). I'm planning on doing the lessons myself to try to help my own writing issues.)

[Cuddly McFluffles]

And yes, I also prefer to work on characters, their motives, internal thoughts, and their interactions with each other. I'm not too big on building culture though. And I absolutely detest physically describing anything. Sensory descriptions and culture building are always where I get blocked. (I'm now homeschooling my daughter, and one of the books she'll be learning from is how to model 'good' writing from various genre (fiction parts, business letters, etc). I'm planning on doing the lessons myself to try to help my own writing issues.)

I once took a course called Cultural Geography, which talked about how different groups's culture was influenced by their environment. I've gotten a lot of use out of it, especially in developing my fantasy races (though that usually has to do with how their culture and choice of environment are effected by their powers).

[anndelise]

I once took a course called Cultural Geography, which talked about how different groups's culture was influenced by their environment. I've gotten a lot of use out of it, especially in developing my fantasy races (though that usually has to do with how their culture and choice of environment are effected by their powers).

Oh! That sounds like a fun course!

This summer I finally found a way of getting some cultural stuff in by using the setting/culture as a 'character' and what kinds of interactions it has with the MC etc. that's helped a lot. But only for settings where I can make up my own 'culture character' for story purposes. It's not so good for me in trying to use a pre-defined culture....yet. (because of all the research required)

I have also collected tabletop roleplaying game books/info on how to create cultures.
And even purchased an author's toolkit for creating cultures.

I just really suck at trying to get all that stuff to work together. Politics and such have never been an interest of mine, but seem to play an important factor in how a culture develops.

Before I die...I WILL figure out a method that works for me!!

[Absurd]

I DON'T like that SEE are so manipulative in the "please help me, I'm senselessly incapable of everything" so much so that they lure in the LSE who think "wow, I'm really useful and I feel like a man's man now by helping her *award me as king*) only to find out that after a while all the LSE is doing is giving and giving senselessly to someone who keeps taking and taking.

I actually find that funny. Am hard to manipulate, anyway. And when they're senselessly incapable of everything I just point them in the direction of two high voltage wires to hold on to. And I bet that "someone who keeps taking and taking" means talking and talking.

Yes, I can come up with a few things I'd like to give to an LSE to do. Like feed the fishies, and fatten them up for sushi. But, seriously, enough is enough, I need skillzzzz.

I can feed the fishes with SEEs and remaining quadra ingredients leaving delta quadra intact and not hungry. Like filleting the fish leaving only juicy parts. Bon appétit! Dinner has been served.

[Minde]

My mother, who I believe is ESTj, picked up my library book, The Design of Everyday Things, and discovered she likes it a lot. Now she's started going around talking about the various items around the house and outside of the house and at her work and basically anywhere she goes, how they're designed well or not and how aesthetics fits into it and how it could be better. Something about the book really struck a chord in her, haha, and now she's checked out her own copy from the library.

I originally got it as a resource for my web design work, since a lot of people I respect in that field recommended it as a source of their own learning and understanding. I think it's great that my mother finds it interesting, too. She's an artist herself, but tends to approach it logically and systematically. For example, at the art school she's the teacher of perspective, which is quite "left brained" art. And she's very... hands-on and mechanically oriented. She's natural at understanding how things physically work, particularly if she can get her hands in there. I admire her a lot in that way, haha.

[Absurd]

Damn, I want to be an artist as well.

[Minde]

Damn, I want to be an artist as well.

What kind of art?

[Absurd]

What kind of art?

Splatter art. I already see corpses of defiant other quadras lying on the ground. That was a crappy joke though. I used to do "art" when younger but it was just weird drawings on paper.

[Minde]

Splatter art. I already see corpses of defiant other quadras lying on the ground. That was a crappy joke though. I used to do "art" when younger but it was just weird drawings on paper.

Oh. I was just wondering if anything appealed to you, a style or media. There are lots of ways you can be an artist. If artist = good drawer to you, there are ways you can learn the skills and techniques (and without having to spend lots of money on art schools).

[Absurd]

Oh. I was just wondering if anything appealed to you, a style or media. There are lots of ways you can be an artist. If artist = good drawer to you, there are ways you can learn the skills and techniques (and without having to spend lots of money on art schools).

Well, I don't know whether production is art, as in production, and I don't think I would spend cash on an art school. Isn't that a bit impractical?

[Minde]

Well, I don't know whether production is art, as in production, and I don't think I would spend cash on an art school.

Lots of things can be an art, and you can find art and artists in just about every discipline. Do you mean video production? Theater production? Some other sort of production?

Isn't that a bit impractical?

Perhaps, I suppose, but it depends on your goals and what you want / value. I spent money on art classes, and I'm very glad I did. They and the knowledge and skills I gained from them enriched my life, and continue to do so.

[Absurd]

[QUOTE=Minde;906622]Lots of things can be an art, and you can find art and artists in just about every discipline. Do you mean video production? Theater production? Some other sort of production?

Industry production.

Perhaps, I suppose, but it depends on your goals and what you want / value. I spent money on art classes, and I'm very glad I did. They and the knowledge and skills I gained from them enriched my life, and continue to do so.

One f my Uni professors said I don't have any knowledge only skills, but I'm still rolling on it. Seems theory parted its way with me and vice versa.

[Beautiful sky]

Ladies and gentlemen: It's gonna be a DUAL time weekend comin up in LA.

[anndelise]

May you both have a good time.

[Beautiful sky]

My mother, who I believe is ESTj, picked up my library book, The Design of Everyday Things, and discovered she likes it a lot. Now she's started going around talking about the various items around the house and outside of the house and at her work and basically anywhere she goes, how they're designed well or not and how aesthetics fits into it and how it could be better. Something about the book really struck a chord in her, haha, and now she's checked out her own copy from the library.

I originally got it as a resource for my web design work, since a lot of people I respect in that field recommended it as a source of their own learning and understanding. I think it's great that my mother finds it interesting, too. She's an artist herself, but tends to approach it logically and systematically. For example, at the art school she's the teacher of perspective, which is quite "left brained" art. And she's very... hands-on and mechanically oriented. She's natural at understanding how things physically work, particularly if she can get her hands in there. I admire her a lot in that way, haha.

But, LSE do that naturally, from the day they are born; they can see the layout of things/places; they don't need a book as a guide, they are the book; this is one reason why they tend to pick up things that they are curious about such as books on human conditions, psychology, fictional books on families, and family dynamics, because they are doing what they aren't naturally good at trying to read and understand people, hence Humanist zones. This is why EII are all about facts because they switch roles. Those who are good at or are interested in Design related stuff (such as aesthetic LSE), well they do it naturally, not until waiting to be much older to do so. They start off young. I went into Journalism, as Maria Scriver did when I was young too because of my interest in how things/the world works dynamically, and because of my interest in FACTs.

This calls for an example: my LSE cousin designed her own home. Yes some of it were ideas she gathered from the pages of design magazines, but most of it were ideas that were born out of these observations, but it wasn't with "I think this can be improved" it was "I don't like/am not happy with how this turned out or how this looks." So she's been interactive active with that project. LSE tend to create matchy and comfortable aesthetic homes, for me.

LSE already do not tolerate inferior quality in things, so they know what is "good" "tolerable" or not and not just from design perspective and aesthetic but from functional as well.

[717495]

El Pulpo Mechanico



Who wants to see a new world? Through the gate!



(my iPhone takes pretty nice photos, if I do say so myself)

Hey, what are these from? Very imaginative.

[717495]

Inspirational.

[Absurd]

Maritsa, I grew some corn in the backyard. I'm sure you're hungry and Minde has better things to do than arguing what LSEs are born with.

[Beautiful sky]

In all the years I've known Socionics and typed people, I've never typed my brother. I just did last night at 1am

He's ESFp type and my mother's dual relationship. Anyone interested? LOL

He's a sweetheart of a brother and I really love him. So what do you get when you combine

ISTp father
INTp mother

INFj - me
ESFj - my sister
ESFp - my brother

[Taknamay]

In all the years I've known Socionics and typed people, I've never typed my brother. I just did last night at 1am

He's ESFp type and my mother's dual relationship. Anyone interested? LOL

He's a sweetheart of a brother and I really love him. So what do you get when you combine

ISTp father
INTp mother

INFj - me
ESFj - my sister
ESFp - my brother

When conflicts have children, are they capable of having anybody from the Socion?

[Beautiful sky]

When conflicts have children, are they capable of having anybody from the Socion?

that's been my observation. So if you have a sibling from another quadra...let's say you're IDK ILI and you have SLE brother, then your parents may be a whole nother type.

[Taknamay]

that's been my observation. So if you have a sibling from another quadra...let's say you're IDK ILI and you have SLE brother, then your parents may be a whole nother type.

I see... I think my brother and I are from different quadras. He doesn't seem Fi valuing to me.

[Absurd]

I see... I think my brother and I are from different quadras. He doesn't seem Fi valuing to me.

You sure he's not SEE?

[Taknamay]

You sure he's not SEE?

Yeah, he doesn't consider my feelings very much. My mom used to ask him to lose on purpose when we played board games so that I didn't lose all the time (I am 4 years younger then him) he refused, saying that it wasn't fair.

[Eliza Thomason]

In all the years I've known Socionics and typed people, I've never typed my brother. I just did last night at 1am

He's ESFp type and my mother's dual relationship. Anyone interested? LOL

He's a sweetheart of a brother and I really love him. So what do you get when you combine

ISTp father
INTp mother

INFj - me
ESFj - my sister
ESFp - my brother

I think that's real interesting. I really like to see family relationships laid out like that. So, what do you get with yours? You know, of course, but just saying:

Your parents are Lookalikes so not a lot conflict there, probably pretty peaceful and stable growing up

Your sister is Illusionary with you so you probably get along pretty well, and enjoy time with her, you just have had to separate herself from you when she tries you "make you normal" sometimes. LOL.

You and your Dad are Activity so probably very positive. It also explains your helpful insights about SLIs!

Your Mom is your Benefactor which is not an unusual position for a parent, so, not bad.

Your brother is your Supervisor. He probably gets annoyed with you, or at least feels he knows better than you sometimes! Its your worst relationship in the family. However, with an otherwise peaceful home environment maybe this is fine, particularly if you do not have to cooperate constantly. As the only son, perhaps he is more off-to-himself anyway.

How do you see the "Supervisor/Supervisee - Auditor/Audited - Revisor/revisee" working in your relationship with him?

I have a friend I really like and admire, an INTJ, so she is my Supervisor and I feel I keep waiting for her to get exasperated with me!

[Absurd]

Yeah, he doesn't consider my feelings very much. My mom used to ask him to lose on purpose when we played board games so that I didn't lose all the time (I am 4 years younger then him) he refused, saying that it wasn't fair.

I see. Well, that rules out SEE then...

Anyhow, that wasn't a super serious question to begin with.

From Absurd with love.

[Taknamay]

I see. Well, that rules out SEE then...

Anyhow, that wasn't a super serious question to begin with.

From Absurd with love.

I love you too.

[Absurd]

I love you too.

That wasn't funny but, I don't know, alright...

[Korpsy Knievel]

Yeah, he doesn't consider my feelings very much. My mom used to ask him to lose on purpose when we played board games so that I didn't lose all the time (I am 4 years younger then him) he refused, saying that it wasn't fair.

It's not an Fi/Fe issue at all. It's one of refusing to see the value in mollycoddling underperformers by insisting that the successful fake their own incompetence. Since that was something your mother desired and your brother did not I wholly agree that it is unfair to him to lower himself in this manner or assist in hampering your development by enabling the learning of helplessness.

[Beautiful sky]

I think that's real interesting. I really like to see family relationships laid out like that. So, what do you get with yours? You know, of course, but just saying:

Your parents are Lookalikes so not a lot conflict there, probably pretty peaceful and stable growing up

Your sister is Illusionary with you so you probably get along pretty well, and enjoy time with her, you just have had to separate herself from you when she tries you "make you normal" sometimes. LOL.

You and your Dad are Activity so probably very positive. It also explains your helpful insights about SLIs!

Your Mom is your Benefactor which is not an unusual position for a parent, so, not bad.

Your brother is your Supervisor. He probably gets annoyed with you, or at least feels he knows better than you sometimes! Its your worst relationship in the family. However, with an otherwise peaceful home environment maybe this is fine, particularly if you do not have to cooperate constantly. As the only son, perhaps he is more off-to-himself anyway.

How do you see the "Supervisor/Supervisee - Auditor/Audited - Revisor/revisee" working in your relationship with him?

I have a friend I really like and admire, an INTJ, so she is my Supervisor and I feel I keep waiting for her to get exasperated with me!

LOL, that's exactly how he is, usually off doing his own thing and being duals with my mom, they've always worked whatever issue he's had with me off on their own and so he's "left me peacefully" alone but he tries very hard to be dependable to his sisters, being there as an activity buddy to my SLI nephew, and with me, he comes over and has good/different foods. It is a peaceful family and I think my mom has a lot to do with this because of the buffer she's been. He ignores my dad quite often LOL so his relationship is much more tense with him than the others of us.

Overall, I'm not surprised he turned out to be SEE. We've had moments where he knows more about something than I do or will suddenly make a comment about something in the light of things to put me on check, but our buffers have made our relationship quite easy. I was never the focal point of the object which he pushed around or wanted to supervise, much probably due to duality and his own psychological comfort with my mom. You worked out the scenario very nicely, I might add.

That's Ne, with Fi, seeing how all of these elements and dynamics come together to form what kind of a picture with regards to relationships.

[Eliza Thomason]

Here is what I have pieced together about my family of origin:

Me: ENFP
Dad: ISTP
Mom: ISFJ
Brother No.1: ExTx -leaning toward J in that
Brother No.2: ISTP
Brother No.3: ExTx - He is visiting soon so I will think on this more then. I lean towardr ENTP for him, however,
...............................I think his wife is ENFJ and they look like Activity to me, making him ESTP, but, I don't see him as like my son.

My parents were a very tight pair all their lives and there was almost no arguing ever between them; very peaceful. Mom was the strict ruler of us kids and Dad backed her 100%, so we behaved. She stayed home, Dad traveled for work a lot when we were young. I got along great with my brothers particularly after I made a decision when I was very young to never tell on them anymore. Then they excluded me less, (which was a problem for a time). Brother no.2 and I were like best friends for a long time growing up, very close (except for times he decided, with my brothers, that he didn't want a girl tagging along for some activity) till he started (young) getting girlfriends - he had basically 3 successive girlfriends growing up, one after the other - then they were his best friend instead of me.. I usually had a good friend or two though, and otherwise it was a pretty isolated childhood at home and at school since I was shy (till college years).

Other relations:
ex-husband: ENFJ
my son: ESTP

Man I love: ISTP
His ex: ENFJ
His daughter, dysfunctional and the biggest cross in his life: ESFP
His son: ISTP

[Minde]

Hey, what are these from? Very imaginative.

A hub of creativity and imaginative expression, Burning Man.

[Minde]

My friend got a puppy. He's a cairn terrier.







He's only a few pounds, but very playful and not afraid of other dogs, so we're going to set up a play date with him and Bunter. Both of the pups never get enough play time with others of their species and both have grumpy older siblings, so this should work out well.

[717495]

A hub of creativity and imaginative expression, Burning Man.

I should probably go there then.

[Absurd]

Watch the threads and learn. Full Absurd explosion. Smart LSE superiority and supremacy on two wheels.