Delta Lounge

[Marie84]

So....

what's with the socionix links in people's signature. I feel like I'm being propaganda'd. Is a deal you cut when you join there now? Is it a response to "this forum"?

Something to do with the administration change and a lot of people getting banned for either violating the rules, or just leaving on their own. They now use Socionix as an alternative and a lot of current members here who liked the former atmosphere/members have gone over there, too.
I guess the promoting in sigs is to increase traffic there, like any other redirect linking

[UDP]

here we go

[ashlesha]

Something to do with the administration change and a lot of people getting banned for either violating the rules, or just leaving on their own. They now use Socionix as an alternative and a lot of current members here who liked the former atmosphere/members have gone over there, too. I guess the promoting in sigs is to increase traffic there, like any other redirect linking

while i think what you've said is partially true, i think its also biased towards promoting a sort of clique mentality which isnt really fair to people who dont see things through that prism. i feel like i'm expected to decide whether i'm a "socionix person" or a "workshop person" or like how closely my views on socionics match a given theoretical model speaks to the nature of my character. which seems incredibly vapid and high school-ish to me and is frustrating.

i dont mean to single you out on this, and i think that the fact that you strike me as an overall reasonable person might just make it more frustrating to me when the vibe of pressure seems to be coming from you. and i also feel kinda dorky for even talking about this at all, like its this thing thats supposed to go unspoken, but ive felt like its often the invisible elephant in the room.

also its christmas, so...lol. happy holidays everyone.

[Suz]

I really like Ashton and he's one of my trusted gurus, and thus I guess you could say I sort of follow his school of thought as far as socionics goes. Despite that, I vastly prefer the "new" 16types environment to the previous one, so I sort of avoid the socionix forums just because most of the unpleasant mean vapid people mass migrated over there so they could keep doing their mean, stupid, pointlessly pornographic things, and talk about drugs and being high.

I occasionally will research things @ the socionix forum though if i'm not finding enough info here, and i definitely refer to the socionix gallery and typelist a lot (i find the typings there to be most accurate out of any celebrity benchmark list I've seen online).

Sorry ash... I know u understand though...

[golden]

Er, well, I stumbled into Delta lounge. Hm. Anyway, I have the Socionix link because I was sorry to see some of the members from this site get banned, as they included people I'd learned a lot from. There's not a whole lot of activity at Socionix, but I like the galleries and some of the posts there, and I did frankly get annoyed by the way the whole forum debacle got played out as some kind of "Betas are evil" scenario.

And I guess I'm sort of a School of Ashton person where the celeb typings are concerned, because it wasn't until I went to Socionix for lists and photos that I could get any clarity at all about certain types.

[UDP]

I really like Ashton and he's one of my trusted gurus, and thus I guess you could say I sort of follow his school of thought as far as socionics goes.

and @ Arthur

That's interesting, in that I didn't mention any one person. Is there some sort of association that socionix forum and Ashton are linked - that is, if you like Ashton you must like socionix or vice versa?

Is it a loyalty thing?

Er, well, I stumbled into Delta lounge. Hm. Anyway, I have the Socionix link because I was sorry to see some of the members from this site get banned, as they included people I'd learned a lot from. There's not a whole lot of activity at Socionix, but I like the galleries and some of the posts there, and I did frankly get annoyed by the way the whole forum debacle got played out as some kind of "Betas are evil" scenario.

So it partially has to do with a people being exiled from this forum. (?)

I don't really know the banning stories anymore, so maybe that's why I don't quite understand.

[golden]

So it partially has to do with a people being exiled from this forum. (?)

I don't really know the banning stories anymore, so maybe that's why I don't quite understand.

Eh, you're wanting to find a solid logical reason for it? Can't help you there, really. When several forum members were banned and went into self-described exile at Socionix, it just so happened that two of those forum members were people I'd learned a lot from. It bugged me that I wouldn't be seeing their input on the threads on this site. So initially yeah, I put Socionix in my sig line to show solidarity with the exiled. Stuff happens, but the way the disagreements were characterized as anti-Beta was distasteful to me.

It wasn't clear how active/inactive Socionix would be after that. Time has shown it's not super-busy over there. So if you want to call my sig line advertising, I guess that's fine. Although I've gotten a lot of individual answers to specific questions at 16 types, Socionix has some sticky threads with better info in them (clearer to me, anyway) than I've seen elsewhere. And as I said, the galleries there, when I finally saw them, were a relief to me, like a map as to how particular types manifest. Theretofore I'd only seen confusing lists of celeb benchmarks that failed to add up to anything usable. To me the gallery is perfect for Ni-based thinking; it's more or less a reflection of how I need information presented to me in order to grasp it fully.

So Socionix has some resources (members, written information, images) that isn't at 16 types, and I want to support that and direct people to it in case they're not aware of it (newcomers, I guess).

[UDP]

I don't think there is "a" reason, I'm just trying to dig around some and ask what's going on. I do that sometimes...

[ashlesha]

and @ Arthur

That's interesting, in that I didn't mention any one person. Is there some sort of association that socionix forum and Ashton are linked - that is, if you like Ashton you must like socionix or vice versa?

Is it a loyalty thing?


So it partially has to do with a people being exiled from this forum. (?)

I don't really know the banning stories anymore, so maybe that's why I don't quite understand.

why did you say you felt "propaganda'd?" why did you joke about a deal being cut? just digging around.

[Suz]

and @ Arthur

That's interesting, in that I didn't mention any one person. Is there some sort of association that socionix forum and Ashton are linked - that is, if you like Ashton you must like socionix or vice versa?

Is it a loyalty thing?


So it partially has to do with a people being exiled from this forum. (?)

I don't really know the banning stories anymore, so maybe that's why I don't quite understand.

Well the point i was trying to make is that i like ashton but i'm not a socionix forum regular. Just clarifying in case i wasn't clear before.

[Suz]

Er, well, I stumbled into Delta lounge. Hm. Anyway, I have the Socionix link because I was sorry to see some of the members from this site get banned, as they included people I'd learned a lot from. There's not a whole lot of activity at Socionix, but I like the galleries and some of the posts there, and I did frankly get annoyed by the way the whole forum debacle got played out as some kind of "Betas are evil" scenario.

And I guess I'm sort of a School of Ashton person where the celeb typings are concerned, because it wasn't until I went to Socionix for lists and photos that I could get any clarity at all about certain types.

Hear hear!!

[UDP]

why did you say you felt "propaganda'd?" why did you joke about a deal being cut? just digging around.

Yes, as opposed to discreetly inquiring information in a very diplomatic fashion. I could have PMed everyone about it that I wanted an answer from. But I chose not to.

[Minde]

Sketching fun

[UDP]

looks more like a picture than a photo to me, missy

[Minde]

looks more like a picture than a photo to me, missy

Where did I claim it was a photo?

[UDP]

llol I meant SKETCH

it looks more like a PHOTO than a Sketch

[Minde]

Oh, that makes more sense... thank you for clarifying.

If you click on it you'll get a bigger version where you can easily see it's not a photo. It's my first "real" drawing with my new tablet (which, by the way, is better than my first drawing with my old tablet.) Freehand, 30ish min, while watching Tyrone Power's Zorro, and modeled on the family Santa hat.

[UDP]

I think Minde should make some sort of special banner for people when they come to dthe delta quadra.

[Marie84]

while i think what you've said is partially true, i think its also biased towards promoting a sort of clique mentality which isnt really fair to people who dont see things through that prism. i feel like i'm expected to decide whether i'm a "socionix person" or a "workshop person" or like how closely my views on socionics match a given theoretical model speaks to the nature of my character. which seems incredibly vapid and high school-ish to me and is frustrating.

I wasn't being biased there, although I do have my own feelings towards the site, what I posted is what basically happened. A lot of the posts/threads about it have been deleted since, so it might be confusing for those who didn't see it happen when it did

*jxrtes buys site from Gilly
*creates members only sub-forum to divert the more raunchy discussions there
*some members abuse this by using it to air dirty laundry and other private info about other members.
*it than starts clogging-up other subforums and begins an onset of slanderous threads
*some members get temporary banned, people complain and label jxrtes a dictator.
*Said people rebel and either move on directly to Socionix or do things to get purposely banned
*Threads/posts complaining about the new rules continue

i dont mean to single you out on this, and i think that the fact that you strike me as an overall reasonable person might just make it more frustrating to me when the vibe of pressure seems to be coming from you. and i also feel kinda dorky for even talking about this at all, like its this thing thats supposed to go unspoken, but ive felt like its often the invisible elephant in the room.

I really don't care about the split and if people want to use both sites; what bothers me is when people use Socionix material on Model A subforums (aside from the alternative theories/discussions area), it borders on trolling to me.

It would be like if I were to go to an MBTI board and post in Socionics terminology; that is, just because I believe Socionics is more applicable than MBTI doesn't give me a pass to troll on other peoples sites, "correcting" their theory with another.

also its christmas, so...lol. happy holidays everyone.

You too

[golden]

I wasn't being biased there, although I do have my own feelings towards the site, what I posted is what basically happened. A lot of the posts/threads about it have been deleted since, so it might be confusing for those who didn't see it happen when it did

*jxrtes buys site from Gilly
*creates members only sub-forum to divert the more raunchy discussions there
*some members abuse this by using it to air dirty laundry and other private info about other members.
*it than starts clogging-up other subforums and begins an onset of slanderous threads
*some members get temporary banned, people complain and label jxrtes a dictator.
*Said people rebel and either move on directly to Socionix or do things to get purposely banned
*Threads/posts complaining about the new rules continue

I agree with the series of events described. What I took exception to when the forum split occurred were the ongoing complaints and putdowns about Betas in general, as if what took place were interquadra warfare with Betas as bad guyz. I never had any problem with the new rules per se, but the way in which those rules were communicated was ridiculous to me. It definitely seemed like the whole thing could have been handled better.

I really don't care about the split and if people want to use both sites; what bothers me is when people use Socionix material on Model A subforums (aside from the alternative theories/discussions area), it borders on trolling to me.

Forgive my ignorance, but what is the difference to you between Socionix material and Model A? And would you be willing to provide me a link to a thread where Socionix stuff was borderline-trolled into that subforum? I haven't noted this--s'why I ask.

[ashlesha]

ya, i guess in the context of the links in peoples' signatures, that series of events is all congruous. i guess i just feel like, for myself, i like to have a perspective of "people have the links in their sigs because they like socionix" rather than the perspective of "people have the links in their sigs because they are a part of the 'beta revolution' or are 'ashton devotees' or something." i see a certain divisiveness and maybe as a fairly new person i just cant fully appreciate where it stems from or something, idk. i mean, "propaganda'd?" i know this isnt just a random word choice lol.

also maybe its the fact that i'm fairly new again, in that the different views of socionics i see dont seem THAT radically different to me. i see differences, sure, but ultimately everyone is dealing with the elements and quadras and such, just with tweaks of dealing with them (and every single person here has their own tweaks, just as a consequence of having separate brains and perspectives.)

in any case, reading this back, i can definitely see how e9 works for me, hah.

also i second the minde delta banner idea!

[Marie84]

I agree with the series of events described. What I took exception to when the forum split occurred were the ongoing complaints and putdowns about Betas in general, as if what took place were interquadra warfare with Betas as bad guyz.

I'm in agreement with you on this. There seems to have been a comic book like stereotype of the quadras here that seem to have more influence than actual information elements in many instances.
While I think a lot of the people who were involved are likely Beta types, I don't think their actions were representations of Beta or my reasoning's for thinking they're Beta has to do with what they did. I'm more of the opinion that the situation involved people who were acting like dicks, and that's not really type related IMO

I never had any problem with the new rules per se, but the way in which those rules were communicated was ridiculous to me. It definitely seemed like the whole thing could have been handled better.

yeah, probably. There were some people who left/got banned, if I recall, that I actually think were good contributors to the site and would have liked to see them allowed back, but it's not my site.
I think whoever owns this site has the right to do what they want and if I don't like it to such an extent I'll just leave, no biggy. In fact all the past and current complaining about the admins has always ticked me off in that sense

Forgive my ignorance, but what is the difference to you between Socionix material and Model A? And would you be willing to provide me a link to a thread where Socionix stuff was borderline-trolled into that subforum? I haven't noted this--s'why I ask.

According to Ashton, Socionix works like this

I can go further into this if you like

ya, i guess in the context of the links in peoples' signatures, that series of events is all congruous. i guess i just feel like, for myself, i like to have a perspective of "people have the links in their sigs because they like socionix" rather than the perspective of "people have the links in their sigs because they are a part of the 'beta revolution' or are 'ashton devotees' or something." i see a certain divisiveness and maybe as a fairly new person i just cant fully appreciate where it stems from or something, idk. i mean, "propaganda'd?" i know this isnt just a random word choice lol.

I sometimes refer to the people who use Socionix as Ashton's followers or what not, but I don't mean it in a malicious way. I don't think, for the most part, they are trying to cause havoc or spread fallacious information since I believe they're sincere in thinking that what they believe to be true, which is fine. I just don't understand why it needs to be brought over to this site, much like what I said about trolling an MBTI forum with Socionics.
An example of what I'm referring to is when someone from Socionix uses images, in many instances pic spams, of people they've typed as such and such, and use that as a definitive factor in whatever the discussion is about, (i.e "they're not LSI, this is how LSI's look, see that glare in their eye and how their forehead is shaped? Discussion over").
Another example is when Jungian definitions are used (to be fair, not always by Socionix users) which isn't valid when referring to the Socionic models

[stray]

Hey.. I just wanted to thank some of you for chatting with me and pms and such. I was convinced I was a Delta NF (thought I VI'ed like one too), but I don't really understand Socionics anymore. I'm sorry if I spoke out of line on anything and misrepresented Delta (I mean, indirectly by posting and such, with "EII" next to my name). Take care

[CILi]

I was convinced I was a Delta NF (thought I VI'ed like one too), but I don't really understand Socionics anymore.

Does anyone really?

I'm sorry if I spoke out of line on anything and misrepresented Delta (I mean, indirectly by posting and such, with "EII" next to my name). Take care

If you (at all) enjoy it here, stick around.

Some of us are confused as you are.

[stray]

Does anyone really?

Thanks for the kind words CiLi. I'll leave with one last bit of food for thought. I think typology can be understood as a general baseline way of pointing out cognitive preferences, but it's not totally applicable or all encompassing to every bit of behavior in life. This idea that Fi types are all peace, love, and agreeableness, for example. Personally, I think there are too many Fi PoLRs spreading disinfo there. Second, there are compliant type 9s who don't argue with it. It's leads to oversimplifications.

I was thinking about VI lately. I was wondering how these people below could be ENFps. They seem to VI well and have behavior that seems very much "ENFp-ish", yet they're all capable of disagreement, whether it's friendly, or funny, or in some cases, self-righteous.







Tiger Woods may be another EII believe it or not.



Funnily, there's a sports MBTI guy who tested him, I think (Jon Neidnagel.. who's actually hired a lot for scouting purposes. I think Danny Ainge from the Celtics employs him almost full time), and he tested Tiger Woods as INFP. Which would be Fi-Ne in Socionics. It could be a coincidence that he VIs and apparently typed as an NF. Is he some perfect walking Jesus Housewife archetype though? No. He's an imperfect individual as we all know. And a very competitive one to boot.

Beware of an INFP on a warpath

[UDP]

lol Oprah, Kutcher, and Ellen all the same type?

You've got to be kidding.

[stray]

lol Oprah, Kutcher, and Ellen all the same type?

You've got to be kidding.

I was swapping those from Socionix. They seem likely though. The difference is Oprah and Ricki were listed as Fi subtypes. Kutcher and Ellen were listed under Ne. Regardless of that, I would say their general schtick on observation is kind of Ne anyways though.

Anyways, take care dudes.

[UDP]

what you doing, running away, dude?

[Suz]

dont forget, quasis can look alike visually.

Some people think Ashton Kutcher is EIE. I actually think he might be ILE (which can also look like IEE to an extent). His behavior and choices in his career seem Fi-POLR, Fe-HA to me.

[Suz]

what you doing, running away, dude?

I know, what's up with that??

[Suz]

WOW, nice juxtapositions of the photos with the drawings btw straytk!! I've seen those drawings before and didn't really know what to make of them.

[CILi]

I know, what's up with that??

[ashlesha]

Anyways, take care dudes.

aw. you too, bye.

[stray]

what you doing, running away, dude?

Hah.. you lured me back with that one. Forgive the irrational behavior.. I'll tell you why I "run away". It's because, ironically, that I probably am EII and don't want to argue too much. Especially something like that, where it's for grabs.. the truth is out my grasp. All I know is myself.. I can identify with some typology descriptions, but they don't push me into a corner too far. I have my dragons to slay in life.. I have causes I believe in, love, and stand up for. I don't appreciate it when this is stripped from me, just because some typology says it must be so. It takes away my individualism and my very humanity when I'm pegged as some ultimate compromiser and pushover. Maybe I'm being dramatic, but it's just all too limiting. I'm willing to stand up for something, just as much as an LSE or SLI. Probably not quite to the same extent though, I'll say that.

dont forget, quasis can look alike visually.

Some people think Ashton Kutcher is EIE. I actually think he might be ILE (which can also look like IEE to an extent). His behavior and choices in his career seem Fi-POLR, Fe-HA to me.

Interesting point.. Something to consider. I mean, Kutcher does have the whole punk'd thing. I wonder if it's just him being a funny Ne type and not trying to hurt anyone or ILE. I never have seen a lot of his shows, so maybe I've missed some episodes that are more insulting and Fi PoLR like.

aw. you too, bye.

Doh. This is embarassing. I'm indecisive now. Thanks for the sentiment though.

[ashlesha]

Hah.. you lured me back with that one. Forgive the irrational behavior.. I'll tell you why I "run away". It's because, ironically, that I probably am EII and don't want to argue too much. Especially something like that, where it's for grabs.. the truth is out my grasp. All I know is myself.. I can identify with some typology descriptions, but they don't push me into a corner too far. I have my dragons to slay in life.. I have causes I believe in, love, and stand up for. I don't appreciate it when this is stripped from me, just because some typology says it must be so. It takes away my individualism and my very humanity when I'm pegged as some ultimate compromiser and pushover. Maybe I'm being dramatic, but it's just all too limiting. I'm willing to stand up for something, just as much as an LSE or SLI. Probably not quite to the same extent though, I'll say that.

yeah, i think we all come across this...being resentful at something generally believed to be true of our type that isn't really "us." (i guess i can only speak for myself, but i would find it hard to believe this isn't fairly universal.)

if you are able to stand up for your principles, then you are able to stand up for your principles. regardless of any effing theory, lol. a theoretical construct cannot take what comprises you as a person and steal it. (and i don't think there's anything about EIIs that makes them theoretically unable to stand up for things anyway, but that's not the point i want to make, so, heh.)

Doh. This is embarassing. I'm indecisive now. Thanks for the sentiment though.

no worries. i thought you might be back.

[Beautiful sky]

my mom has amazingly fast internet service at her home, it makes visiting her extra rewarding...lol

[stray]

a theoretical construct cannot take what comprises you as a person and steal it.

True enough. No one can steal it. But it's probably best to cut my time (at least somewhat) at a website where I'm more likely to run into people who "steal" it in the sense that they rely on "models" in their head, and don't actually know how to converse directly with you on your own terms. I prefer it when people share their self-experience and learn from each other, rather than converse on a level of stereotypes. Where I'm relegated to a mere bobblehead-like caricature just because I have "EII" next to my name.

[UDP]

Life just got really interesting.

[UDP]

Hah.. you lured me back with that one. Forgive the irrational behavior.. I'll tell you why I "run away". It's because, ironically, that I probably am EII and don't want to argue too much. Especially something like that, where it's for grabs.. the truth is out my grasp.

You can be a functioning member of the forum without being a socionics master, and you don't have to be EII to post her, or anywhere else on the forum.

All I know is myself.. I can identify with some typology descriptions, but they don't push me into a corner too far. I have my dragons to slay in life.. I have causes I believe in, love, and stand up for. I don't appreciate it when this is stripped from me, just because some typology says it must be so.

Whoever is using typology like that is using it in a very bad way, IMO. To me that's not what socionics is about. but I sure do know people who try to make it that way. : /

It takes away my individualism and my very humanity when I'm pegged as some ultimate compromiser and pushover. Maybe I'm being dramatic, but it's just all too limiting. I'm willing to stand up for something, just as much as an LSE or SLI. Probably not quite to the same extent though, I'll say that.

Well if it's taking way who youa re, you can go if you want to. I don't blame you.

I was just curious about what this 'goodbye" stuff was about.


And I'll apologize on Minde's behalf that her lack of creating a delta banner made you feel unwelcome.

[stray]

Life just got really interesting.

I think of six impossible things before breakfast. Even tough looking EIIs.