Page 57 of 163 FirstFirst ... 74753545556575859606167107157 ... LastLast
Results 2,241 to 2,280 of 6489

Thread: Delta Lounge

  1. #2241
    Park's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    East of the sun, west of the moon
    TIM
    SLI 1w9 sp/sx
    Posts
    13,714
    Mentioned
    196 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Most of you probably don't care much, and I guess complaining doesn't do much other than promote wallowing, but atm I seek even marginal sympathy. If nothing else, I hereby reach out with a missive of empathy to all else who have been or are similarly hurt.
    I don't want to sound like a prick, but I don't think you've explained how you've been hurt.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  2. #2242
    Minde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Amongst the stars
    TIM
    EII/INFj E9w1sp
    Posts
    4,451
    Mentioned
    148 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by twitch View Post
    Reading your post makes me sad. I know exactly what you mean. Forgiveness is better any day of the week, despite if its deserved or not. I guess its a 'seventy times seven' deal, we fall so much, others do to. If we forgive, we are forgiven in a way. I get angry to, but i dont want to be, so instead i cry. It helps a little. But i know numbness, and its worse than pain. I wouldnt want that on anyone . It might be easier to not care, but i know you wouldnt want that deep down. Sometimes losing things and hurting is a type of growing and learning. Get up every day even when you dont feel like it and just keep living - thats wise words form a great ENFp friend i have. Very true, very real. I care. Even if i dont know you, i care. I hope it gets better for you.
    Thank you; you are sweet.

    I'll keep living. I'm not in danger of giving up my life or anything similar. I have a lot of good in my life, a lot to be thankful for. Relatively speaking, I live in physical and emotional and relational and spiritual luxury. However, this is earth and I am a human who lives among other humans, and so hurt (along with its potential growth, yes) is inevitable.

    Thinking about how I need forgiveness myself, as you mention, does help.


    Quote Originally Posted by April View Post
    I'm sorry to hear about your troubles, Minde. I think a forgiving and loving heart is one of the most precious things in existence. It's so easy to feel like people are stealing a piece of you every time they wrong you. Later, I realized that forgiveness and love in the face of opposition actually lets your heart grow. In these sort of times, I'll often sit and meditate for a moment, and let that feeling of growth circulate and encompass my entire body. I hope things improve for you soon.
    You remind me of that quote by a popular author (I forget who exactly). When asked if he enjoyed writing so many successful books he replied that it was nice to have written them. Forgiveness afterward is nice and healing. But the process, especially before, can be so hard. And it's something I'm still not the best at.

    Thank you for your encouragement.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    Probably not. It seems to be very unappealing, especially to NFs.

    It's what they don't like about people like me; I can make my heart untouchable. It's consequences are not ideal, though.
    This quote from C.S. Lewis seems to cyclically haunt me throughout my life:

    "To love at all is to be vulnerable. Love anything, and your heart will certainly be wrung and possibly broken. If you want to make sure of keeping it intact, you must give your heart to no one, not even to an animal. Wrap it carefully round with hobbies and little luxuries; avoid all entanglements; lock it up safe in the casket or coffin of your selfishness. But in that casket- safe, dark, motionless, airless--it will change. It will not be broken; it will become unbreakable, impenetrable, irredeemable."


    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    ...but you expressing your discontent, that's something you perhaps could be better at. It shouldn't come out always as personal sorrow or woe. Or passivity and creating things to complain about that aren't really the case, as with some others.

    Sometimes the best way to deal with something actually is the direct route, with "No" and "I don't like this" - with stating what your wants are.



    Jesus didn't go around asking, very nicely, everyone whether or not they'd like to reconsider the way they earned their income when he saw the money-changers in the temple.

    He said G T F O.
    Sometimes just asking people to behave differently doesn't help or change anything. Sometimes it does, yeah, but often people are set in their ways and determined to keep going.

    In that situation you mentioned, Jesus was defending someone/something he felt was important and had been violated.

    I would and do like it when people defend me, when they help and protect me. Those who do earn a special spot in my heart. I do that myself with other people. If I feel someone is being mistreated or wronged I can seem like a different person sometimes in my vehemence and force.

    Defending myself can (and perhaps should?) be a different story. One of the things Jesus says to me is, "Here's another old saying that deserves a second look: 'Eye for eye, tooth for tooth.' Is that going to get us anywhere? Here's what I propose: 'Don't hit back at all.' If someone strikes you, stand there and take it. If someone drags you into court and sues for the shirt off your back, giftwrap your best coat and make a present of it. And if someone takes unfair advantage of you, use the occasion to practice the servant life. No more tit-for-tat stuff. Live generously.

    "You're familiar with the old written law, 'Love your friend,' and its unwritten companion, 'Hate your enemy.' I'm challenging that. I'm telling you to love your enemies. Let them bring out the best in you, not the worst. When someone gives you a hard time, respond with the energies of prayer, for then you are working out of your true selves, your God-created selves. This is what God does. He gives his best—the sun to warm and the rain to nourish—to everyone, regardless: the good and bad, the nice and nasty. If all you do is love the lovable, do you expect a bonus? Anybody can do that. If you simply say hello to those who greet you, do you expect a medal? Any run-of-the-mill sinner does that.

    "In a word, what I'm saying is, Grow up. You're kingdom subjects. Now live like it. Live out your God-created identity. Live generously and graciously toward others, the way God lives toward you."


    Then again, that whole passage of his sermon there is partially an illustration of how God's standards are impossible for us to ever really fully achieve, so... yeah. I still see in other places in the Bible, though, where I'm supposed to forgive and let go and not try to exact revenge or hold bitterness.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pied Piper View Post
    I understand what you mean, this dilemma is grinding me sometimes, too. I don't know if there is a correct answer, but I think one has to go with his/her feelings because in the end it's the same shit - I mean if this idea did not come to you, you'd be anyway in the former situation. If you change you POV to get into another one's shoes, it appears to be the same, like that saying that one can't take anything with him in the grave - it's IMO applicable for anything, both for wealth or good deeds, for example.

    So my current answer? I just live with these, with my cravings and I do nothing about them. I just make sure that I'm not going crazy (some people develop some fixations that they become pathetic, I don't want to end-up like that) or hurt people for no reason, but that's about it overall .
    I have been called in a certain direction. So I know what I must do, what is best for me to do. But it's just hard sometimes, and sometimes I twist and turn against it. ("The problem with living sacrifices is they like to crawl off the altar.") The dilemma, the war, is in my feelings; my head knows, though. And so does my heart, actually. It just likes to rebel and make trouble for me.


    Quote Originally Posted by Parkster View Post
    I don't want to sound like a prick, but I don't think you've explained how you've been hurt.
    By people. A general hurt, generated by human fallibility. I think most if not all people have felt that kind of pain. Humans tend to harm each other. If you don't want my empathy, though, you don't have to take it.






    ...


    On a slightly related note -

    Normally I try to stay even-keeled in my emotions. I avoid extreme or outward displays of highs and lows.

    However, I think I can come across as negative at times especially to certain people, more so than positive anyway, because it's when I'm negative that I feel a need for help changing my state. If I'm happy, I don't require a change, and since I'm usually good at maintaining my internal state I don't feel a need to pull in an outside potentially disruptive influence.

    The reality is, though, that while I'm usually even in my emotions I'm also generally on the positive side of things.
    Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.

  3. #2243
    The Greeter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    600
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    This is eerie.

    Just last night, I was speaking to someone dear to me about how it's just hard; that I sometimes wish I was less sensitive, more apathetic about what people say, do, choose... Indeed to stop caring at all. And then I think, "Then who would I be?"

    It will be all right, Minde. For your sake and my own as well.
    Ceci n'est pas une eii.




  4. #2244
    Minde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Amongst the stars
    TIM
    EII/INFj E9w1sp
    Posts
    4,451
    Mentioned
    148 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Exactly, it's all about caring, and the price of doing so. I'm so grateful for when people do care, though. The world would be awful without it.

    It will be alright, yes. So long as I don't let my pain influence me to make irrevocably harmful choices.
    Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.

  5. #2245
    UDP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    "Come with me if you want to live"
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    14,907
    Mentioned
    51 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    On a slightly related note -

    Normally I try to stay even-keeled in my emotions. I avoid extreme or outward displays of highs and lows.

    However, I think I can come across as negative at times especially to certain people, more so than positive anyway, because it's when I'm negative that I feel a need for help changing my state. If I'm happy, I don't require a change, and since I'm usually good at maintaining my internal state I don't feel a need to pull in an outside potentially disruptive influence.

    The reality is, though, that while I'm usually even in my emotions I'm also generally on the positive side of things.
    it seems sometimes that delta NFs get into weird funky states. It's almost like, for lack of a more flattering term, an emotional "period", part of an emotional cycle. I don't relate it specifically to the physical period that women experience.

    Sometimes it just happens. And sometimes it's even negative and I feel pushed away. It tends to fade away after a few days, so it seems. Sometimes I'm not even doing anything but it just happens.

    I wonder actually if sometimes I get more of the unpleasantness because they feel comfortable being emotionally expressive with me.

    IDK.

  6. #2246
    UDP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    "Come with me if you want to live"
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    14,907
    Mentioned
    51 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by twitch View Post
    Am i Delta...?? life is just to confusing! i think i am though tell me what you think. though my internet is slow at the moment... thanks someone for using it all up! (my brother by the way) he downloads way way way way way way way beyond way way to much junk.
    As an EII 9w8

    don't you find life impossible?


    heh

  7. #2247
    UDP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    "Come with me if you want to live"
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    14,907
    Mentioned
    51 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Exactly, it's all about caring, and the price of doing so. I'm so grateful for when people do care, though. The world would be awful without it.

    It will be alright, yes. So long as I don't let my pain influence me to make irrevocably harmful choices.

    No offense, but, you remind me of an few IEIs I know who do this same thing, but a bit more annoying. More like "my life is over", "I'm dying", "life is so hard", etc.


    This is totally an example of what not to say in this situation, by the way, to other delta STs. But, I have faith that Minde won't disown me.

  8. #2248
    c esi-se 6w7 spsx ashlesha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    the center of the universe
    Posts
    15,833
    Mentioned
    912 Post(s)
    Tagged
    4 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    No offense, but, you remind me of an few IEIs I know who do this same thing, but a bit more annoying. More like "my life is over", "I'm dying", "life is so hard", etc.
    i didn't think she was being like that at all.

  9. #2249
    Minde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Amongst the stars
    TIM
    EII/INFj E9w1sp
    Posts
    4,451
    Mentioned
    148 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    it seems sometimes that delta NFs get into weird funky states. It's almost like, for lack of a more flattering term, an emotional "period", part of an emotional cycle. I don't relate it specifically to the physical period that women experience.

    Sometimes it just happens. And sometimes it's even negative and I feel pushed away. It tends to fade away after a few days, so it seems. Sometimes I'm not even doing anything but it just happens.

    I wonder actually if sometimes I get more of the unpleasantness because they feel comfortable being emotionally expressive with me.

    IDK.
    Out of curiosity, did you get that point I was making? It feels as if you didn't, but I want to ask to know for sure.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    No offense, but, you remind me of an few IEIs I know who do this same thing, but a bit more annoying. More like "my life is over", "I'm dying", "life is so hard", etc.


    This is totally an example of what not to say in this situation, by the way, to other delta STs. But, I have faith that Minde won't disown me.
    First, I don't know why I'd be offended by being compared to an INFp. There is nothing inherently bad about any type.

    Second, I don't know what "this same thing" is. Could you elaborate please? You appear to be perceiving something rather different than what I intended to express.

    Third, on principle, just because you have confidence I won't end the friendship over it doesn't make it acceptable or good to do.
    Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.

  10. #2250
    UDP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    "Come with me if you want to live"
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    14,907
    Mentioned
    51 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Out of curiosity, did you get that point I was making? It feels as if you didn't, but I want to ask to know for sure.
    As usual, I doubt I was commenting on things exactly as you were.

    I feel it's kind of a trap question for me to say whether or not I get the point you were making. The reality is you don't think I did, so let's leave it at that.


    First, I don't know why I'd be offended by being compared to an INFp. There is nothing inherently bad about any type.

    Second, I don't know what "this same thing" is. Could you elaborate please? You appear to be perceiving something rather different than what I intended to express.

    Third, on principle, just because you have confidence I won't end the friendship over it doesn't make it acceptable or good to do.
    The way you were lamenting about the pain caused to you from other people.

  11. #2251
    The Greeter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    600
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    No offense, but, you remind me of an few IEIs I know who do this same thing, but a bit more annoying. More like "my life is over", "I'm dying", "life is so hard", etc.
    What I am speaking of, and what I think Minde is speaking of, has nothing to do with Life or even our own lives, as your quotes suggest.

    At the very least, what I am speaking of is how my own psychological make-up, the personality I was born with, can sometimes be damaging or hurtful to myself. Hence, why the issue of identity also comes into play.
    Ceci n'est pas une eii.




  12. #2252
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    TIM
    SLE/LSE sx/sp
    Posts
    2,470
    Mentioned
    76 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    It would be a great boon towards understanding if there were specific examples supplied.

  13. #2253
    Creepy-Pied Piper

    Default

    Removed at User Request

  14. #2254
    UDP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    "Come with me if you want to live"
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    14,907
    Mentioned
    51 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    She's absolutely not Fe ego.

    It's just the same sort of...... airing of grievances that I've seen before. I've seen all the NFs do it

  15. #2255
    Lobo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    TIM
    EII 6w5
    Posts
    2,080
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    ajdflk;aj;ia


    People can be rather hurtful. Or perhaps I should say - people's choices can and have and are hurting me. It makes me want to be angry, though I know losing my temper and lashing out won't help much.

    Hugs help, and I have sought out more of them lately, but they don't solve the original source of pain. (They're just a temporary feeling that at least somebody cares about me and my feelings.)

    Sometimes I wish I could be numb, could cut out my heart so to speak; but then I consider that all feeling, even pain, is a sign that I am alive. Would I really want to be someone with a hard and untouchable heart? (The answer to that rhetorical question is "no".)


    Sometimes the command to forgive "up to seventy times seven" gets a little wearisome to me. It feels like I've gone the extra mile and then some.



    Most of you probably don't care much, and I guess complaining doesn't do much other than promote wallowing, but atm I seek even marginal sympathy. If nothing else, I hereby reach out with a missive of empathy to all else who have been or are similarly hurt.
    Minde, I can definitely see you going outside in the rain one day with mud paint on your face hunting woodland creatures with your bare hands... and that would be OK. You don't have to feel remorse about it as long as you eat them later. Anger is not "bad," it can lead to productive activities. Maybe you just need to find ways to vent anger without hurting other people in the process, like playing a competitive sport. Don't let other people get to you emotionally.

  16. #2256
    Creepy-Pied Piper

    Default

    Removed at User Request

  17. #2257
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    26,953
    Mentioned
    701 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    ajdflk;aj;ia


    People can be rather hurtful. Or perhaps I should say - people's choices can and have and are hurting me. It makes me want to be angry, though I know losing my temper and lashing out won't help much.

    Hugs help, and I have sought out more of them lately, but they don't solve the original source of pain. (They're just a temporary feeling that at least somebody cares about me and my feelings.)




    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Sometimes I wish I could be numb, could cut out my heart so to speak; but then I consider that all feeling, even pain, is a sign that I am alive. Would I really want to be someone with a hard and untouchable heart? (The answer to that rhetorical question is "no".)
    Sometimes, I've been numb; I don't know how much that has helped me and others around me. I can't say that I suggest anyone try it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Sometimes the command to forgive "up to seventy times seven" gets a little wearisome to me. It feels like I've gone the extra mile and then some.

    Most of you probably don't care much, and I guess complaining doesn't do much other than promote wallowing, but atm I seek even marginal sympathy. If nothing else, I hereby reach out with a missive of empathy to all else who have been or are similarly hurt.
    Sympathy - given


    Thanks for reaching out.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  18. #2258
    Minde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Amongst the stars
    TIM
    EII/INFj E9w1sp
    Posts
    4,451
    Mentioned
    148 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    As usual, I doubt I was commenting on things exactly as you were.

    I feel it's kind of a trap question for me to say whether or not I get the point you were making. The reality is you don't think I did, so let's leave it at that.
    It would make me happy if you could demonstrate what you understand me to be saying. The reality is that I'm not sure, which is why I ask.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    The way you were lamenting about the pain caused to you from other people.
    There was a purpose behind the lament beyond mere creation/expression of emotion.


    Quote Originally Posted by The Greeter View Post
    What I am speaking of, and what I think Minde is speaking of, has nothing to do with Life or even our own lives, as your quotes suggest.

    At the very least, what I am speaking of is how my own psychological make-up, the personality I was born with, can sometimes be damaging or hurtful to myself. Hence, why the issue of identity also comes into play.
    It was partial lament, partially a reaching out for understanding and comfort, but also a more general concept that I thought others here could relate to.

    You're right, it's not about me being in a depression or thinking my life stinks. Like I said before, my life is actually relatively good and I'm thankful for it. But there are aspects of life that cause me pain. And I react to that pain. What I said was a part of my reaction.


    Quote Originally Posted by Words View Post
    It would be a great boon towards understanding if there were specific examples supplied.
    As I said above, it's a general concept. Yes, there is a particular situation which propelled this particular instance of expression of my thoughts, but this is something that recurs in my life and something that I think a lot of people deal with - if not the more narrow question of caring vs. not-caring, then at least the more widespread (if not universal) situation/feeling of hurt which comes from human contact.

    More people can relate to the general concept(s) than they could to my specific circumstances, so I feel my temporary details aren't that important here.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pied Piper View Post
    This is very interesting, because I think the same way (except that "annoying" part, her sayings are actually touching, IMO). I am still convinced that she is Fe Ego, and I am more careful about these existential questions lately, as I found that they're Ti/Fe related.
    I think anybody can and does have existential questions and thoughts, at least at some point in their lives. They just tend to go about it in different ways sometimes.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    She's absolutely not Fe ego.

    It's just the same sort of...... airing of grievances that I've seen before. I've seen all the NFs do it
    It's more than just airing of grievances. Note that I did not give out any particulars. But, yes, it is about feelings. If that puts you off then just ignore this conversation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lobo View Post
    Minde, I can definitely see you going outside in the rain one day with mud paint on your face hunting woodland creatures with your bare hands... and that would be OK. You don't have to feel remorse about it as long as you eat them later. Anger is not "bad," it can lead to productive activities. Maybe you just need to find ways to vent anger without hurting other people in the process, like playing a competitive sport. Don't let other people get to you emotionally.
    No! No killing of innocent animals! If anything, I would release my rage on those who do such terrible things - abusers of innocents...

    Rain and mud paint is ok, though. I've done that before.

    So, you suggest I don't let people get to me emotionally. Does this mean you fall in the camp of "not caring"? Or is there some happy balance you have found? Please, wise one, enlighten me.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pied Piper View Post
    Btw, I was not involving in the matter to make another point on behalf of her typing, but I relate to what she said and asked myself such questions numerous times. I found your judgement a bit hurtful for someone stating such thoughts and who I empathize with - at least this is what I think that is happening, as long as I understand and thought previously about similar things. You sound like God forbidding Adam and Eve to taste the fruit of knowledge (therefore doubt) and, while understandable considering your type, it feels like you're pushing a painful spot, maybe I'm wrong, but it would certainly apply to me .
    I appreciate your empathy. And, yes, what Ryu said is a little less than sensitive, but I wasn't really expecting sensitivity or gentleness from him so I'm ok.

    Atm, I am unsure if I fully understand your understanding of what I was saying. It might be the language barrier. Do you want to clarify or elaborate further?




    ...

    I feel I should add that last night it was pointed out to me that I deserve some or even all of my current pain, that it balances things because I myself have caused pain - in this particular situation at least. "Turn about is fair play," or the like. The situation in which I find myself is only justice. So perhaps I should not be complaining or seeking comfort.

    Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.

  19. #2259
    Minde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Amongst the stars
    TIM
    EII/INFj E9w1sp
    Posts
    4,451
    Mentioned
    148 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post






    Sometimes, I've been numb; I don't know how much that has helped me and others around me. I can't say that I suggest anyone try it.




    Sympathy - given


    Thanks for reaching out.
    Thank you, Maritsa.
    Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.

  20. #2260
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    TIM
    SLE/LSE sx/sp
    Posts
    2,470
    Mentioned
    76 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Minde
    As I said above, it's a general concept. Yes, there is a particular situation which propelled this particular instance of expression of my thoughts, but this is something that recurs in my life and something that I think a lot of people deal with - if not the more narrow question of caring vs. not-caring, then at least the more widespread (if not universal) situation/feeling of hurt which comes from human contact.

    More people can relate to the general concept(s) than they could to my specific circumstances, so I feel my temporary details aren't that important here.

    OK thanks. Here's what I took out of it: 1. Somethings wrong 2. Ascertain what it is 3. Fix it.

    It is equivalent of a simple instinctive conversation:

    You: I'm sad
    Me: What's up honey?

    I guess i'm not sure about relating, because I think for instance, someone is hurt because their spouse is cheating on them or someone is hurt because they didn't get invited out to some social event (just for examples) is different .

    So it's different grades of being hurt, I can't relate to what you are saying because it might not be fair on the people who you think are causing you pain, for all I know you have unrealistic/unfair expectations of them, so I need details in order to work out what's going on.

    Of course you don't have to supply any specifics, as for all I know i'm talking in double dutch to to you. Infact for all I know supplying specifics would exacerbate communication issues, I suppose I don't really get what you mean, but it seems plenty are talking like they do, so it's all good, well, mostly.

  21. #2261
    Slippery when wet Simon Ssmall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    ✈ ↺
    Posts
    2,225
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Words View Post
    OK thanks. Here's what I took out of it: 1. Somethings wrong 2. Ascertain what it is 3. Fix it.

    It is equivalent of a simple instinctive conversation:

    You: I'm sad
    Me: What's up honey?

    I guess i'm not sure about relating, because I think for instance, someone is hurt because their spouse is cheating on them or someone is hurt because they didn't get invited out to some social event (just for examples) is different .

    So it's different grades of being hurt, I can't relate to what you are saying because it might not be fair on the people who you think are causing you pain, for all I know you have unrealistic/unfair expectations of them, so I need details in order to work out what's going on.

    Of course you don't have to supply any specifics, as for all I know i'm talking in double dutch to to you. Infact for all I know supplying specifics would exacerbate communication issues, I suppose I don't really get what you mean, but it seems plenty are talking like they do, so it's all good, well, mostly.
    Thing is there is nothing to fix, it is as it is. There is no point to go into detail as this is a trend and not an isolated event. This time its one situation the next time it will be different but the main theme will still be the same. If you deal with other people you are likely to be hurt.

    @ Minde:
    Being oversensitive in childhood made me more or less numb for quite a while. And I think it is a very bad idea, it took me quite some time to be able to be myself again, which is being quite sensitive I guess. Either way I don't think you deserve any of the hurt, unless your actions were with the intention to hurt someone. People do make mistakes, people do make wrong choices and sometimes people do make correct choices which causes other people pain but in the long run are beneficial. Neither of those things mean that you should feel the pain due to the same reasons unless, as I said before, your intentions were bad, in which case I guess feeling some of the hurt is beneficial and just.

    Either way, each time I get hurt by people or I hurt people I know that people are also the source of joy and meaning in my life and there is nothing to even closely substitute it. So hope that it will pass and in the future there will be less pain and more joy in your life. Momentarily pain almost always makes us cherish more the people that surrounds us, the ones that cause more joy than pain, the ones that treat us with care. Also there is always a sort of liberation once the sadness or hurt passes, you just need to make sure it does and you wont fixate on your past hurts, which can be hard.

    Im not even sure all of it made sense to you, and I dont want to be preachy, I just wanted to find those positive things about being sensitive to other peoples feelings .
    Looking for an Archnemesis. Willing applicants contact via PM.

    ENFp - Fi 7w6 sp/sx
    The Ineffable IEI
    The Einstein ENTp

    johari nohari
    http://www.mypersonality.info/ssmall/

  22. #2262
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    26,953
    Mentioned
    701 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post

    I feel I should add that last night it was pointed out to me that I deserve some or even all of my current pain, that it balances things because I myself have caused pain - in this particular situation at least. "Turn about is fair play," or the like. The situation in which I find myself is only justice. So perhaps I should not be complaining or seeking comfort.

    Don't feel bad, sweetie pie. This Fi reflection of empathy won't help me either. You should complain and seek comfort if it is what you need to feel better.

    I don't believe in eye for an eye and things like turn about as being fair; I do believe in just simply making amends by way of apology or by genuine show of concern. If you want to make a situation better, I think you know how to improve it. I think, also that you will know how to move forward from it without draining yourself and putting so much guilt or creating a situation where you carry so much emotion around.

    I do get that whatever you're facing has made it's impression on your emotions.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 09-02-2010 at 03:32 PM.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  23. #2263
    UDP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    "Come with me if you want to live"
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    14,907
    Mentioned
    51 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    "..."

  24. #2264
    Creepy-Pied Piper

    Default

    Removed at User Request

  25. #2265
    UDP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    "Come with me if you want to live"
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    14,907
    Mentioned
    51 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    eh?

  26. #2266
    I had words here once, but I didn't feed them Khola aka Bee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    TIM
    Meat Popsicle
    Posts
    3,566
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Much has happened since I posted here last. I have been sick about three weeks now and it turns out I have an anxiety disorder - boo! Also this means I'll be deferring uni for the next few months *cry*

    But on the positive side, I'll have more time to make art and spend time on here and generally relax now, which is kind-of a huge relief

    Today I have been working on my blog. I'm starting to take it in a new direction so it may be a little different from what it was a couple of posts back....I hope you like it, let me know what you think

    What has everyone been up to?
    Hello, my name is Bee. Pleased to meet you .



  27. #2267
    UDP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    "Come with me if you want to live"
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    14,907
    Mentioned
    51 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Khola View Post
    Much has happened since I posted here last. I have been sick about three weeks now and it turns out I have an anxiety disorder - boo! Also this means I'll be deferring uni for the next few months *cry*
    Why does it mean that?


    I'm doing well. Working more. Thinking about the future. Enjoying my relationship. I wonder how things will unfold.

    I made a decent dinner for myself - it's good, as I've been rather busy lately.

  28. #2268
    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    On a chatbox diet
    TIM
    ESI maybe
    Posts
    6,479
    Mentioned
    173 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    Why does it mean that?


    I'm doing well. Working more. Thinking about the future. Enjoying my relationship. I wonder how things will unfold.

    I made a decent dinner for myself - it's good, as I've been rather busy lately.
    Aww good. busy with your IEE??

    Ryu can you tell the story of how u met the IEE and how you two decided to enter into a relationship with each other? (If you're not too bashful to tell).
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

  29. #2269
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    26,953
    Mentioned
    701 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    She's someone else's dual.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  30. #2270
    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    On a chatbox diet
    TIM
    ESI maybe
    Posts
    6,479
    Mentioned
    173 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    She's someone else's dual.
    So?
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

  31. #2271
    UDP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    "Come with me if you want to live"
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    14,907
    Mentioned
    51 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    She's someone else's dual.
    Sorry SLIs, she's just too hot to let you have.

    I'm breaking socionics simply because she's so fine.


    there, I admit it.

  32. #2272
    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    On a chatbox diet
    TIM
    ESI maybe
    Posts
    6,479
    Mentioned
    173 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    Sorry SLIs, she's just too hot to let you have.

    I'm breaking socionics simply because she's so fine.


    there, I admit it.
    Hey that leaves more SLIs for me! Thanks Ryu!

    p.s. i'm still waiting for the story Ryu
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

  33. #2273
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    26,953
    Mentioned
    701 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    Sorry SLIs, she's just too hot to let you have.

    I'm breaking socionics simply because she's so fine.


    there, I admit it.
    You're predictably selfish and self-centered, but that's not a surprise to me because your sense of right/wrong and good/bad is ambiguous to yourself.

    Look how shallow your statement is; it says "I'm taking your dual because she satisfies me." She serves your hedonistic needs so you thing you have the conscious "right" to be with her?
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 09-12-2010 at 04:08 AM.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  34. #2274
    UDP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    "Come with me if you want to live"
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    14,907
    Mentioned
    51 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    You're predictably selfish and self-centered, but that's not a surprise to me because your sense of right/wrong and good/bad is ambiguous to yourself.

    Look how shallow your statement is; it says "I'm taking your dual because she satisfies me." She serves your hedonistic needs so you thing you have the conscious "right" to be with her?
    Yes, that is quite how i wrote it, isn't it.

  35. #2275
    Minde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Amongst the stars
    TIM
    EII/INFj E9w1sp
    Posts
    4,451
    Mentioned
    148 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Words View Post
    OK thanks. Here's what I took out of it: 1. Somethings wrong 2. Ascertain what it is 3. Fix it.

    It is equivalent of a simple instinctive conversation:

    You: I'm sad
    Me: What's up honey?

    I guess i'm not sure about relating, because I think for instance, someone is hurt because their spouse is cheating on them or someone is hurt because they didn't get invited out to some social event (just for examples) is different .

    So it's different grades of being hurt, I can't relate to what you are saying because it might not be fair on the people who you think are causing you pain, for all I know you have unrealistic/unfair expectations of them, so I need details in order to work out what's going on.

    Of course you don't have to supply any specifics, as for all I know i'm talking in double dutch to to you. Infact for all I know supplying specifics would exacerbate communication issues, I suppose I don't really get what you mean, but it seems plenty are talking like they do, so it's all good, well, mostly.
    I appreciate your attitude of wanting to fix things. It's rather dual-like, actually, which warms my DS function.

    And, yes, I get what you're saying. For you to help out my specific situation you would indeed probably do better if you had details.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ssmall View Post
    Thing is there is nothing to fix, it is as it is. There is no point to go into detail as this is a trend and not an isolated event. This time its one situation the next time it will be different but the main theme will still be the same. If you deal with other people you are likely to be hurt.
    Yes.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ssmall View Post
    @ Minde:
    Being oversensitive in childhood made me more or less numb for quite a while. And I think it is a very bad idea, it took me quite some time to be able to be myself again, which is being quite sensitive I guess. Either way I don't think you deserve any of the hurt, unless your actions were with the intention to hurt someone. People do make mistakes, people do make wrong choices and sometimes people do make correct choices which causes other people pain but in the long run are beneficial. Neither of those things mean that you should feel the pain due to the same reasons unless, as I said before, your intentions were bad, in which case I guess feeling some of the hurt is beneficial and just.

    Either way, each time I get hurt by people or I hurt people I know that people are also the source of joy and meaning in my life and there is nothing to even closely substitute it. So hope that it will pass and in the future there will be less pain and more joy in your life. Momentarily pain almost always makes us cherish more the people that surrounds us, the ones that cause more joy than pain, the ones that treat us with care. Also there is always a sort of liberation once the sadness or hurt passes, you just need to make sure it does and you wont fixate on your past hurts, which can be hard.

    Im not even sure all of it made sense to you, and I dont want to be preachy, I just wanted to find those positive things about being sensitive to other peoples feelings .
    You're not being preachy at all. I think you understand me well. And I'm really glad you said what you did. It helps me.


    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    Don't feel bad, sweetie pie. This Fi reflection of empathy won't help me either. You should complain and seek comfort if it is what you need to feel better.

    I don't believe in eye for an eye and things like turn about as being fair; I do believe in just simply making amends by way of apology or by genuine show of concern. If you want to make a situation better, I think you know how to improve it. I think, also that you will know how to move forward from it without draining yourself and putting so much guilt or creating a situation where you carry so much emotion around.

    I do get that whatever you're facing has made it's impression on your emotions.
    Thanks, Maritsa. I don't believe in an eye for an eye, either, though neither do I believe in a lack of justice. And I have been seeking comfort in people. It's nice knowing people who do like me and help instead of hurt. (I just started up teaching again and it's been heart-warming being around my students, especially the ones who love me and tell me so. ) I just don't want the people who soothe me to become an emotional crutch, so I have to be careful with that. It's good to have people and supportive connections, but I can't allow myself to become an emotional black hole. That's not fair to others to have to take my burdens.

    But, yeah, it's made its impression...


    Quote Originally Posted by Khola View Post
    Much has happened since I posted here last. I have been sick about three weeks now and it turns out I have an anxiety disorder - boo! Also this means I'll be deferring uni for the next few months *cry*

    But on the positive side, I'll have more time to make art and spend time on here and generally relax now, which is kind-of a huge relief

    Today I have been working on my blog. I'm starting to take it in a new direction so it may be a little different from what it was a couple of posts back....I hope you like it, let me know what you think

    What has everyone been up to?
    I'm sorry to hear about your anxiety. But relaxing is a good thing, especially if you haven't had a lot of it lately.

    I've been... busy. Life and stuff, you know.
    Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.

  36. #2276
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    26,953
    Mentioned
    701 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
    Yes, that is quite how i wrote it, isn't it.
    If every LSE took and ENFp or an ESFp to be their life long "partner", then what's the point of the benefits of duality?

    Why should I keep hoping for it, since, I've already been in other relationships and I can see the differences and patterns in those interactions and I don't value them above duality?

    What would be the point of me being optimistic when you (not setting an example yourself, knowing socionics) is completely ruining it for the potential dual relations you may have?

    What will I be hoping for? An LSE who is just not interested in me?

    It's not a relationship that I want. I can have that at a drop of a dime, with any other type. I obviously don't want that, which means I have to be more patient, but patience has limits on most days too.

    Here's a sad idea: I can always wait for the market of men who have fell out of terrible relationships with ESFp's, who already have kids from these failed unions. But wait! How fair is that to me?


    I expect an answer to all of my question.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 09-13-2010 at 12:15 AM.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  37. #2277
    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    On a chatbox diet
    TIM
    ESI maybe
    Posts
    6,479
    Mentioned
    173 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    If every LSE took and ENFp or an ESFp to be their life long "partner", then what's the point of the benefits of duality?

    Why should I keep hoping for it, since, I've already been in other relationships and I can see the differences and patterns in those interactions and I don't value them above duality?

    What would be the point of me being optimistic when you (not setting an example yourself, knowing socionics) is completely ruining it for the potential dual relations you may have?

    What will I be hoping for? An LSE who is just not interested in me?

    It's not a relationship that I want. I can have that at a drop of a dime, with any other type. I obviously don't want that, which means I have to be more patient, but patience pas limits on most days too.

    Here's a sad idea: I can always wait for the market of men who have fell out of terrible relationships with ESFp's, who already have kids from these failed unions. But wait! How fair is that to me?


    I expect an answer to all of my question.
    Actually Maritsa, I feel the same exact way, and many of these thoughts have been going through my head lately as well. It's a shame.

    But when i start feeling too worried about it, I tell myself, it only takes ONE. And there are LOTS of duals out there apparently. The other day, very recently, I found myself in the presence of an SLI, and though he was quite a bit older than me (older than someone i'd consider being in a relationship with), the connection was instant and easy. The psychological proximity was unmistakeable. This put away many of my fears of not being able to recognize my dual in public, and was encouraging to feel that same effect again.

    So, when the right dual in the right stage of life comes along, it'll happen for you, regardless of those duals who have chosen their relationships unwisely; they will instead go through life never as complete as they could have been. Too bad. Like Jean Gabin.... poor guy. I wish he could reincarnate and then I would marry him.
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

  38. #2278
    Lobo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    TIM
    EII 6w5
    Posts
    2,080
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    No! No killing of innocent animals! If anything, I would release my rage on those who do such terrible things - abusers of innocents...

    Rain and mud paint is ok, though. I've done that before.

    So, you suggest I don't let people get to me emotionally. Does this mean you fall in the camp of "not caring"? Or is there some happy balance you have found? Please, wise one, enlighten me.
    Oh, I didn't mean this type of woodland creature:


    More like this (this guy did something bad, he had it coming):


    I tend to become apathetic towards things/people who bother me for a long time.

  39. #2279
    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    On a chatbox diet
    TIM
    ESI maybe
    Posts
    6,479
    Mentioned
    173 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    LOL!!!

    That raccoon has REALLY good teeth, btw.
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

  40. #2280
    UDP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    "Come with me if you want to live"
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    14,907
    Mentioned
    51 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa33 View Post
    If every LSE took and ENFp or an ESFp to be their life long "partner", then what's the point of the benefits of duality?

    Why should I keep hoping for it, since, I've already been in other relationships and I can see the differences and patterns in those interactions and I don't value them above duality?

    What would be the point of me being optimistic when you (not setting an example yourself, knowing socionics) is completely ruining it for the potential dual relations you may have?

    What will I be hoping for? An LSE who is just not interested in me?

    It's not a relationship that I want. I can have that at a drop of a dime, with any other type. I obviously don't want that, which means I have to be more patient, but patience has limits on most days too.

    Here's a sad idea: I can always wait for the market of men who have fell out of terrible relationships with ESFp's, who already have kids from these failed unions. But wait! How fair is that to me?


    I expect an answer to all of my question.
    Alas, if only you were my woman, then you would have the privilege of rightly expecting an answer to all of your questions.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •