Delta Lounge

[UDP]

I have to agree with Maritsa on this one, Ryu. I think most people have something high quality about them, it's just a matter of recognizing what their strengths and talents are.

Well well well

You both better dearly remember this for a long time. Put it each of your signatures.

You and your NF ways, hoping for the best in people

 

Originally, "dearly" was "fucking", but, dearly sounds nicer, surprisingly

[Creepy-male]

Have you considered that a strong connection/strong feelings come with time? If you're just forming a bunch of superficial connections, they're probably going to stay superficial.

A comparison with combustion is in order: if you get some kindling and just leave it sitting around, nothing will happen. It takes an initial input of a large amount of energy to get the reaction going... but once that happens, there's enough momentum for it to sustain itself, at least until it peters out.

The flip side is, as you get closer and closer with someone, more friction can result, and the relationship can become uncomfortable: some people you can only be so close to, there's just a natural absolute limit on intimacy... and that's where Socionics is important, I think.

But this is just basic Fi stuff, right?

Also, I think it's worth mentioning... For the IEE/SLI and ILE/SEI dyads, things can be very rocky and turbulent. The difference between duality and other intertypes here is that, at least for we Alphas, we can also fall back together. I don't think it's really possible for you to hate your dual for too long.

Or yeah, just ignore my post, pick up a martial art, and subjugate some SLI butt

Anyway, since I just typed that all up for you, do my a favour, WA? What are my unique strengths and talents?

(And the flipside--weaknesses and flaws? )

[Suz]

Have you considered that a strong connection/strong feelings come with time? If you're just forming a bunch of superficial connections, they're probably going to stay superficial.

A comparison with combustion is in order: if you get some kindling and just leave it sitting around, nothing will happen. It takes an initial input of a large amount of energy to get the reaction going... but once that happens, there's enough momentum for it to sustain itself, at least until it peters out.

The flip side is, as you get closer and closer with someone, more friction can result, and the relationship can become uncomfortable: some people you can only be so close to, there's just a natural absolute limit on intimacy... and that's where Socionics is important, I think.

I think you're absolutely right, Brian. My issue right now, i think, is that i'm not coming into close enough range with any single available guys to form anything but a bunch of superficial connections.

Also, I think it's worth mentioning... For the IEE/SLI and ILE/SEI dyads, things can be very rocky and turbulent. The difference between duality and other intertypes here is that, at least for we Alphas, we can also fall back together. I don't think it's really possible for you to hate your dual for too long.

sigh. . .alas. . .

Or yeah, just ignore my post, pick up a martial art, and subjugate some SLI butt

Anyway, since I just typed that all up for you, do my a favour, WA? What are my unique strengths and talents?

with pleasure.

I dont know you too closely but from the little i know of you, you seem to have a unique talent in diffusing tense situations in a most friendly, innocent way. You also have an AWESOME sense of humor!

(And the flipside--weaknesses and flaws? )

hmmm, haven't noticed them yet. But again, I dont know you well enough to have recognized any.

[Airman]

I agree with Ryu that most people are not good enough for a relationship, unfortunately.
But then there´s the issue of the too high standards of LSEs.
ENFP women are kind of amusing. I think they´re very typically american. I have an american friend who´s undoubtedly ENFP. They have something manly in them, it´s kind of interesting and bizarre at the same time. Perhaps they see themselves as more action-driven and independent than most other types, their ego block elements help in this. They see themselves as strong somehow. Well, Aggressors, after all.

[UDP]

idk, i see a lot of guys I'd never suggest my girl friends to get with. I see more girls that seem like better choices, to have a successful relationship with.

[Airman]

yes, I agree, but both sexes are overrated.

[UDP]

airborne you brielfy were 8w9 - what change dyou back to 1w9?

Tibet, apperntly?



Women I think are the fairer sex, and on the whole nicer. They also have lovely breasts. So I like women bettter than men. IDK about you though, if you say they are both over rated.

Does that mean you've tried out guys, too, and they haven't floated your boat?

[UDP]

Here's a question I've always wondered about:


Delta NFs, with your infinite potential in helping people become themselves... don't you think you'd get bored of someone you are with? Like, I'ev thought.... well what if they just feel like I'm not going to go any farther? Wouldn't be more interesting to focus on developing someone else?

What would make you want to stay developing someone - NOT if they 'glaringly need your help to become a better person', but, if they are actually making progress?

[The Greeter]

Here's a question I've always wondered about:


Delta NFs, with your infinite potential in helping people become themselves... don't you think you'd get bored of someone you are with? Like, I'ev thought.... well what if they just feel like I'm not going to go any farther? Wouldn't be more interesting to focus on developing someone else?

What would make you want to stay developing someone - NOT if they 'glaringly need your help to become a better person', but, if they are actually making progress?

Good question. As typical of an Ne-person, I have often pondered if there could be a limit to someone's potential, and if, upon reaching it, I would suddenly become disinterested.

Maybe I will be bored, maybe I will be inspired, maybe I will abandon them, maybe I would feel even closer, I don't know. But one experience really comforted me:

I was once having a conversation with an individual about his life. He is one of the most well-rounded person I know: successful career, great family man and teacher, generous and even charismatic.

He was telling me one day about how he was deciding between two academic disciplines when he was a young man; how angry he was with one of his teachers at the time; how the unfair treatment drove him to change schools completely; and, how when he arrived in his new school, it helped him decide who he wanted to be, and what made him the man today.

He told me all of this with a bit of melancholy, like it was a dark time in his life. So I then simply said: "Sometimes the wrong thing puts you in the right direction." And it was like his whole perspective of that time changed and he became excited--even repeating my remark a few times as he recollected the memory with a smile on his face. It was nice...

And I treasure this small, insignificant event because to me it gave me the slightest glimmer of hope. The hope that even a person who is so complete in my eyes, could still find value in my silly perspectives.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Suz]

Good question. As typical of an Ne-person, I have often pondered if there could be a limit to someone's potential, and if, upon reaching it, I would suddenly become disinterested.

Maybe I will be bored, maybe I will be inspired, maybe I will abandon them, maybe I would feel even closer, I don't know. But one experience really comforted me:

I was once having a conversation with an individual about his life. He is one of the most well-rounded person I know: successful career, great family man and teacher, generous and even charismatic.

He was telling me one day about how he was deciding between two academic disciplines when he was a young man; how angry he was with one of his teachers at the time; how the unfair treatment drove him to change schools completely; and, how when he arrived in his new school, it helped him decide who he wanted to be, and what made him the man today.

He told me all of this with a bit of melancholy, like it was a dark time in his life. So I then simply said: "Sometimes the wrong thing puts you in the right direction." And it was like his whole perspective of that time changed and he became excited--even repeating my remark a few times as he recollected the memory with a smile on his face. It was nice...

And I treasure this small, insignificant event because to me it gave me the slightest glimmer of hope. The hope that even a person who is so complete in my eyes, could still find value in my silly perspectives.

Wow, i had almost the same exact experience!

[Suz]

He'll know that it's a set-up, because he knows me well, that I'm not gonna let it go, and I already told him (and had a verbal fight with him) that he should go for an IEE. + I don't really get out while I'm in this project, probably some months later.

Like you said, he is sceptical of Socionics (I don't know the saying in English, but he's the "what you got in your hand is not a lie" kind of man), first. Then yes, he is still probably affected by the relationship, he told my mother that he was still loving his ex, or something. And btw, he told me that he is "not looking" but I don't know if he's actually "not looking" or it was just an excuse to get rid of my ideas and insistence.

He blamed me because after my relationships I used to immediately begin looking for another gf, although I have suffered as well after my 5 years rel with the SLI but I simply could not just stay and wait, wait for what?
Btw, after a while since my long relationship with the SLI ended, I found out that my father (IEE) and brother considered that ex of mine of being kinda dumb, what makes me think that they look for superficial things - eg they didn't say the same thing about my next gfs who, in contrast, graduated university (ex IEE, arts) or are students (current SEI, IT). I think they're kinda elitist and judge people too harshly - reminds me of what Ryu said.

One thing that might have made their opinion could be the fact that they perceived the SLI ex as too submissive and not having her own opinion on matters. This are fucking role model prejudices, why am I "the Taliban" (this is how my father calls me) but the ex gf of my brother is not a "Taliban"? Because she's a woman? She was usually the one with the last word in that relationship, as far as I can tell and ok, let's say that she was using to leave to him the hardest decisions in how things should be done, but if she was an XLE, for sure she would have taken the most decisions in any matter independently, because SLIs are held back and don't really give a shit who "wins" as long as the things go in the right direction. But they don't use this principle when it comes to judge other couples .

I'm actually wondering what they do think abut my current relationship, they told me some things which I forgot, the idea is that they don't really see me so similarly anymore because my gf is more impulsive, strict, gives me orders sometimes and she defends my ideas actively and aggressively - in a way, "she deserves it". Btw, I find her very similar to Fujiko () in Shogun - I bet few people recall her, she was the official wife of Blackthorne, countless times more beautiful (in the film) and good than Mariko - if you had a problem with her husband or his property she would cut your throat without thinking twice. I could not take my thoughts away from her for a while since I saw that episode, this is what I call girlfriend/wife, ftw!
---

I think this set-up can be handled in a way that doesn't involve me at all, he becomes suspicious even if he hears my name in that context, lol, maybe if I find an IEE I think she would be fit for him, to ask my mother for help and keep her mouth shut. She's good at this but she has a big mouth. Then the problem will be that IEE I find, this type has its quirks, too .

Well sort of what i had in mind is, just make friends with the IEE or another IEE if you aren't already, and just include her sometimes when you hang out with your friends, just so they're exposed to each other. But make it like you're friends with her and that's why she's there, and dont push anything. As an IEE, I know I hate being set up too, but just hanging out as friends can do magical things sometimes. Also, the SLI-IEE connection doesn't necessarily happen instantaneously, and that's probably why we hate set ups and blind dates.

[UDP]

Btw, after a while since my long relationship with the SLI ended, I found out that my father (IEE) and brother considered that ex of mine of being kinda dumb, what makes me think that they look for superficial things - eg they didn't say the same thing about my next gfs who, in contrast, graduated university (ex IEE, arts) or are students (current SEI, IT). I think they're kinda elitist and judge people too harshly - reminds me of what Ryu said.

I think that very much is the case - there are people who are very elitist.

I was being elitist - and overly aristocratic almost to make a point.

But, why I said what I said is that I've put in a lot of work consciously thinking about relationships and people, intentionally processing experiences, etc. The process has left me feeling more confident about things, especially relational interpretation and relational mechanics.

With that knowledge that I've gained, I feel increasingly wary about people attempting to have relationships ; in the sense that I suppose some of the mystery is gone about why so many relationships end in failure, especially a disappointingly unpleasant failure. (Note, I don't consider a relationship ending a failure - that may be the actual best course of action at times.)

What's more, throughout this whole process, one item that motivated me to learn more from the very beginning appears even more stark: I do not see much of an effort to try to gain understanding about relationships. I had wondered a good amount about why people were having disastrous relationships, so I wanted to learn things, like socionics, to bring some sense to that. (I don't think socionics in and of itself did it for me, but using it as a lens to focus attention on relational mechanics has helped a great deal). Point being here - I don't see a lot of people looking to understand things in a serious sense. Of course people wonder and try to understand, but it generally doesn't strike me as "that much".


Now, I expect to get some flak from what I said and that's fine. I'm not downplaying how "love" affects things and people can be made better and understand, sure. And I'm certainly not saying that any sort of 'learning' can guarantee relational success or even leading to have one that is more enjoyable, period. But what I do believe is that, even the part of a relationship that people have control over (themselves, their ability to interpret relationships, differentiate things that improve vs decay relationships, and so on) - it's like there is not much effort put there, or perhaps even awareness that effort can be put there.

 

This analogy comes to mind for some reason: you and a lovely love interest are home. One of you (for the sake of this example, let's say "she"), wanted to make dinner, or eat at home. You ('he') thinks this is a great idea and also wants to share dinner with her. She starts preparing dinner. NOW, here's a choice - does he walk away and watch TV, say "thanks babe!" ; is he aware of the effort that is being put into making the dinner ; does he offer to help? same thing later on, when the dinner is over, and everything was nice and appealing. What about the dishes? Does he offer to do them? Is he even cognizant of how much work that goes into it; does he walk away, does he suggest to do them with her? etc

Now, I know that is kind of a domesticy and related thing, but the analogy applies to relationships in general. I see a lot of people wanting to enjoy having a dinner (people's company, sharing fun times, relational emotional closeness, etc), but not really understanding the part about making the meal, or cleaning up after it - not understanding the actual effort that goes into the dinner. Especially in a relational context, where you don't just have 'dinner' once, but it's a process..... if you are having dinner with someone very frequently, you eventually have to take care of the dishes otherwise you won't have anything to cook with or eat off of ; there is a certain bit of maintenance required to simply keep things moving. A certain bit of care, mutual investment.

Sure it might be more fun to not cook or do the dishes- spend more time out with friends, watching tv, doing whatever - but eventually that makes things lopsided because the other person is the only one putting effort into the dinner. And that can especially happen if the other person is rather loving and caring - it is easy to think "well ok, since she says it doesn't matter if I don't help to cook or clean, that's fine, I'll just go amuse myself", etc.



I can keep going with that analogy, but, I'll leave it at that. You can make plenty of jokes off of it, btw. But to restate my concern and why I was being elitist: no, I really don't see a lot of people, especially guys, who are even aware of the effort that goes into things, no less want to actively contribute to "dinner"/a relationship.

[Suz]

This analogy comes to mind for some reason: you and a lovely love interest are home. One of you (for the sake of this example, let's say "she"), wanted to make dinner, or eat at home. You ('he') thinks this is a great idea and also wants to share dinner with her. She starts preparing dinner. NOW, here's a choice - does he walk away and watch TV, say "thanks babe!" ; is he aware of the effort that is being put into making the dinner ; does he offer to help? same thing later on, when the dinner is over, and everything was nice and appealing. What about the dishes? Does he offer to do them? Is he even cognizant of how much work that goes into it; does he walk away, does he suggest to do them with her? etc

Now, I know that is kind of a domesticy and related thing, but the analogy applies to relationships in general. I see a lot of people wanting to enjoy having a dinner (people's company, sharing fun times, relational emotional closeness, etc), but not really understanding the part about making the meal, or cleaning up after it - not understanding the actual effort that goes into the dinner. Especially in a relational context, where you don't just have 'dinner' once, but it's a process..... if you are having dinner with someone very frequently, you eventually have to take care of the dishes otherwise you won't have anything to cook with or eat off of ; there is a certain bit of maintenance required to simply keep things moving. A certain bit of care, mutual investment.

Sure it might be more fun to not cook or do the dishes- spend more time out with friends, watching tv, doing whatever - but eventually that makes things lopsided because the other person is the only one putting effort into the dinner. And that can especially happen if the other person is rather loving and caring - it is easy to think "well ok, since she says it doesn't matter if I don't help to cook or clean, that's fine, I'll just go amuse myself", etc.



I can keep going with that analogy, but, I'll leave it at that. You can make plenty of jokes off of it, btw. But to restate my concern and why I was being elitist: no, I really don't see a lot of people, especially guys, who are even aware of the effort that goes into things, no less want to actively contribute to "dinner"/a relationship.

Can I marry you Ryu?

[Beautiful sky]

Here's a question I've always wondered about:


Delta NFs, with your infinite potential in helping people become themselves... don't you think you'd get bored of someone you are with? Like, I'ev thought.... well what if they just feel like I'm not going to go any farther? Wouldn't be more interesting to focus on developing someone else?

What would make you want to stay developing someone - NOT if they 'glaringly need your help to become a better person', but, if they are actually making progress?

The self development is more about me then others. I strive to reach my own personal model of who I want to be. I like to think that it's better to accept people for who they are. If they take my tuition, then great, that's wonderful and I'm happy to help. But, most people like to carve their own road and I like to help them take a different or a varied view of what's going on and how things can develop, not necessarily nag them to do something, although what they may be doing (that which goes against my values) may annoy me. What can I do if they are not ready to accept information? I think pushing too far hurts people, so, I would rather tell myself to engage in another activity to self-improve rather then push the other person.

Once I love someone, it's hard to fall out of love with them, so getting bored will only happen if the person decides that they don't want to take part in an activity with me, but also emotionally burdens me to stay sedentary and inactive along with them. I like new food to be added to a relationship and it’s nice to be with someone who has natural curiosity for different things, but also, someone independent enough to do things for themselves and with me as well. There's always lots to do...

I went to see the Arshile Gorky exhibit at the MOCA today, and took my sweet time exploring the developing Los Angeles downtown district. It's nice to go Downtown, when it's not a business day, because the restaurants are open but it's not hustle bustling with cars and business people.

http://www.moca.org/museum/exhibitiondetail.php?&id=425

[Beautiful sky]

There are 5 mosquitoes found in all of the LA county and somehow, they all kinda have to get to me. I've asked why before, but the only suitable or at least logical answer that I've been able to elicit has been that my body surface temperature is naturally hot, because I exude a lot of heat which attracts mosquitoes to me.

I thought I grew out of this stuff and don't these things like type O blood? I don't have one of those and I'm not a kid; usually, kids get a lot of bites.

I woke up with a lot of itching...ouch...

[Beautiful sky]

I think that very much is the case - there are people who are very elitist.

I was being elitist - and overly aristocratic almost to make a point.

But, why I said what I said is that I've put in a lot of work consciously thinking about relationships and people, intentionally processing experiences, etc. The process has left me feeling more confident about things, especially relational interpretation and relational mechanics.

That's good.

With that knowledge that I've gained, I feel increasingly wary about people attempting to have relationships ; in the sense that I suppose some of the mystery is gone about why so many relationships end in failure, especially a disappointingly unpleasant failure. (Note, I don't consider a relationship ending a failure - that may be the actual best course of action at times.)

Yes, most relationships do end in failure. I do see you getting pessimistic here and your optimism sinking back in. I feel though that there are very many reasons why people approach relationships outside of them wanting to find a complimentary partner, one with who they can share their lives with. So, I think you're taking a very limited view on a very big issue. For instance, I would say that most young relationships start with little knowledge of the road ahead; less forward thought, and limited hindsight vision often promotes relationships that end badly, because they are based on those superficial qualities that you are now looking to avoid. There are healthy relationships, by chance, that develop from these relations as well, but the likelihood of them being long lasting may not be greater with let's say someone who has better perception about what they want and why they want it.

What's more, throughout this whole process, one item that motivated me to learn more from the very beginning appears even more stark: I do not see much of an effort to try to gain understanding about relationships. I had wondered a good amount about why people were having disastrous relationships, so I wanted to learn things, like socionics, to bring some sense to that. (I don't think socionics in and of itself did it for me, but using it as a lens to focus attention on relational mechanics has helped a great deal). Point being here - I don't see a lot of people looking to understand things in a serious sense. Of course people wonder and try to understand, but it generally doesn't strike me as "that much".

I don't see this either, because I see that people just want to live in the moment and as long as their immediate needs are satisfied that they have this shallow view that the future will take care of itself, including the future of the health of the relationship, which often is not true. I do see that avoidance of compatibility factors as a major reason why there are so many bad relationships. I see that shallow things like primary concern for physical attraction, as a driving force for unhealthy relations.

Now, I expect to get some flak from what I said and that's fine. I'm not downplaying how "love" affects things and people can be made better and understand, sure. And I'm certainly not saying that any sort of 'learning' can guarantee relational success or even leading to have one that is more enjoyable, period. But what I do believe is that, even the part of a relationship that people have control over (themselves, their ability to interpret relationships, differentiate things that improve vs decay relationships, and so on) - it's like there is not much effort put there, or perhaps even awareness that effort can be put there.

That's fairly relative to all types of factors. I see lack of compatible intelligence/education as one such factor that drives people to take a non active approach on the factors that they have control over. Take IEE/SLI combination. What works for this pair in how they want to work on a relationship is not the same for me. My SLI X often enjoyed material enjoyment, where intellectual and purely esoteric things, my favorite hobbies, were well within his mental capacity, but he lacked a certain willingness or drive to take initiative in those activities. A relationship like that often looks like a dying relationship, due to the conflicts that arise (mainly when one party gets bored of being the initiator, working/improving party). I have a much better time with my LSE friends, who both expect me to make plans for these activities and they do planning as well, so a balance is achieved and through this balance, the effort is almost effortlessly initiated, so a healthy relationship is established.

You're making this assumption that doesn't apply to a lot of individual cases, but applies to a lot of cases, so it only looks worse then it is. There are some positive situations to look at to keep the perspective optimistic.


I haven't read your analogy yet.

[Linas]

damn, how I hate my dad, he's LSE...

[Beautiful sky]

damn, how I hate my dad, he's LSE...

That's so mean. Why? You kinda have to learn to love people for who they are sometimes.

Ryu needs to learn to accept that not all people are as bad as he applies the general rules to.

[Linas]

That's so mean. Why? You kinda have to learn to love people for who they are sometimes.

that what he did to me was oh so mean, and this little line isn't enough to say "dad, I'm not happy with the world you brought me into..oh wait, maybe it's only because you almost killed me inside and that is because you're my conflictor, and you think that I'm a failure, oh yeah, thx daddy, I'll get you then you get real old.." -- smth like that.

[Beautiful sky]

that what he did to me was oh so mean, and this little line isn't enough to say "dad, I'm not happy with the world you brought me into..oh wait, maybe it's only because you almost killed me inside and that is because you're my conflictor, and you think that I'm a failure, oh yeah, thx daddy, I'll get you then you get real old.." -- smth like that.

I take it that your father isn't married to his dual?

[UDP]

Can I marry you Ryu?

Sure. I like IEEs a good amount, you know.

Just have to wait a little bit to figure some other things out.

You seem like a nice person - don't you agree?

[Beautiful sky]

that what he did to me was oh so mean, and this little line isn't enough to say "dad, I'm not happy with the world you brought me into..oh wait, maybe it's only because you almost killed me inside and that is because you're my conflictor, and you think that I'm a failure, oh yeah, thx daddy, I'll get you then you get real old.." -- smth like that.

I would NEVER tolerate my husband treating my kids poorly. I will remove them from the home if I have to protect them physically or emotionally. I don't support abusive relationships, be it verbal or physical.

[Linas]

my mom always said smth like "I'm not going to find another hudband, so I cannot divorce"... blah, yeah, not duals at all, lol. our family is very very odd. my mom isn't also a treasure. though marrying her dual could have possibly made her a better person, and all that.

[Beautiful sky]

my mom always said smth like "I'm not going to find another hudband, so I cannot divorce"... blah, yeah, not duals at all, lol. our family is very very odd. my mom isn't also a treasure. though marrying her dual could have possibly made her a better person, and all that.

I'm sorry for all this Linas, try to remain optimistic; you have a great Beta family here already.

[Linas]

haha, yeah, this is funny what you said idk, I am optimistic, I really am, it's just I'm getting bored or I am getting frustrated over my optimism because shit isn't moving anythere. It's just random bullshit happening over and over again. that is just gross. and why am I posting this in Delta lounge thread...

[Beautiful sky]

haha, yeah, this is funny what you said idk, I am optimistic, I really am, it's just I'm getting bored or I am getting frustrated over my optimism because shit isn't moving anythere. It's just random bullshit happening over and over again. that is just gross. and why am I posting this in Delta lounge thread...

IDK, but it's fine. I can't laugh because I have a giant mosquito bite on my cheek.

[UDP]

damn, how I hate my dad, he's LSE...

was that an indirect remark at me or what I said? If it is it's ok, I just want to know how to respond to you.

That's so mean. Why? You kinda have to learn to love people for who they are sometimes.

Ryu needs to learn to accept that not all people are as bad as he applies the general rules to.

No, I don't need to accept that because I don't feel that way. I'm not saying anybody is 'bad', i'm making an obvious generalization that I don't think the prospects for relationships are very good. That line of commentary, started with me being kind of ... underwhelmed (or rather, having been consistently underwhelmed, even concerned...) at the number of prospects for good relationships I've seen. Especially in terms of guys I'd recommend for my girl friends to get with and see them as being happy.

that what he did to me was oh so mean, and this little line isn't enough to say "dad, I'm not happy with the world you brought me into..oh wait, maybe it's only because you almost killed me inside and that is because you're my conflictor, and you think that I'm a failure, oh yeah, thx daddy, I'll get you then you get real old.." -- smth like that.

Well, your dad didn't "almost kill you" (you're definitely IEI ) because he's your conflictor in socionics - he was probably not aware of how to handle you properly or give you the input and freedom you need. I wouln't 'blame socionics' or his type, I'd more see it that he was lacking proper awareness about how to give you what you needed to blossom. Or, perhaps, he didn't care about you at all and was a jerk. IDK. You tell me which?

[Beautiful sky]

No, I don't need to accept that because I don't feel that way. I'm not saying anybody is 'bad', i'm making an obvious generalization that I don't think the prospects for relationships are very good. That line of commentary, started with me being kind of ... underwhelmed (or rather, having been consistently underwhelmed, even concerned...) at the number of prospects for good relationships I've seen. Especially in terms of guys I'd recommend for my girl friends to get with and see them as being happy.

I don't disagree with you. I disagree with you being so pessimistic about it. You're allowed to be pessimistic only after you have not grabbed the opportunity that would have led you to the road you always wanted to go.

[UDP]

I don't see it as being pessimistic or optimistic. You can feel however you want to about it. I'm trying to give a sort "empirical" analysis of what I've seen. But sure, that too is subjective.

I'll let you be the positivist, ok, Maritsa?

Gonna make some brownies, too?

[Beautiful sky]

Gonna make some brownies, too?

.

I sent you a PM in regards to this. I hope you take note for the future reference to me baking for you.

[Linas]

was that an indirect remark at me or what I said? If it is it's ok, I just want to know how to respond to you.

Well, your dad didn't "almost kill you" (you're definitely IEI ) because he's your conflictor in socionics - he was probably not aware of how to handle you properly or give you the input and freedom you need. I wouln't 'blame socionics' or his type, I'd more see it that he was lacking proper awareness about how to give you what you needed to blossom. Or, perhaps, he didn't care about you at all and was a jerk. IDK. You tell me which?

No, I mean really, I sort of like, don't have much bad to tell right now about my childhood and the other times, I am that positive/optimistic/whatever, but damn he was gross, and he teribbly still is. IDK, I'm not sure what to say, he just totally opressed me, made me a psycho, and I also been taking pills for 5 yrs, and he also found me a doctor who probably was LSE. That is extraordinary, right?

And it doesn't have much to do with you, sorry

[UDP]

.

I sent you a PM in regards to this. I hope you take note for the future reference to me baking for you.

what a catty response

Look woman, if you think i'm going to be the only one baking in this dual relationship, you are mistaken. If you read my analogy, you would understand.

[UDP]

No, I mean really, I sort of like, don't have much bad to tell right now about my childhood and the other times, I am that positive/optimistic/whatever, but damn he was gross, and he teribbly still is. IDK, I'm not sure what to say, he just totally opressed me, made me a psycho, and I also been taking pills for 5 yrs, and he also found me a doctor who probably was LSE. That is extraordinary, right?

And it doesn't have much to do with you, sorry

Not that extraordinary.

I certainly don't think you mistyped yourself, right down to the subtype. You remind me of some other ones I know.

You're not living with him any more, are you? People definitely need space to be themselves.

[Beautiful sky]

I'm trying and have been trying to get my point across to you, that in a dual relationship, these things (tasks, roles, efforts, consideration for shared dutied) come naturally and effortlessly. This is the reason why these relations are the most favorable, because supplements of the dual's natural state of being naturally fills in for the things that are missing in the other pair's life/psyche. Your dual fulfills, covers and does these roles because that's what they like to do naturally. My cousin says to me that she hates to clean the floors, but doesn't mind doing the dishes. I like to clean her floors, but I could also do the dishes. I feel like you don't listen to me.

Dual relation is highly valued, but it's not full of overwhelming hormonal reaction of infatuation, like other relationship. It doesn't make you feel like you're alive; it makes you feel like you, just the most comfortable version of you.

I bake out of love or routine; so if I don't love you, you might never get cookies from me, and if I haven't put cookie making on my routine then you're not getting cookies.

[Suz]

Sure. I like IEEs a good amount, you know.

Just have to wait a little bit to figure some other things out.

Sigh. . .well HURRY UP MAN! j/k i totally know what you mean. . .story of my life.

You seem like a nice person - don't you agree?

I'd say so. But i'm a little biased. . .
:bighugz:

(lol i've been waiting for an occasion to use that smilie! thanks ryu!)

[UDP]

I'm trying and have been trying to get my point across to you, that in a dual relationship, these things (tasks, roles, efforts, consideration for shared dutied) come naturally and effortlessly. This is the reason why these relations are the most favorable, because supplements of the dual's natural state of being naturally fills in for the things that are missing in the other pair's life/psyche. Your dual fulfills, covers and does these roles because that's what they like to do naturally. My cousin says to me that she hates to clean the floors, but doesn't mind doing the dishes. I like to clean her floors, but I could also do the dishes. I feel like you don't listen to me.

Dual relation is highly valued, but it's not full of overwhelming hormonal reaction of infatuation, like other relationship. It doesn't make you feel like you're alive; it makes you feel like you, just the most comfortable version of you.

I bake out of love or routine; so if I don't love you, you might never get cookies from me, and if I haven't put cookie making on my routine then you're not getting cookies.

You're taking what I said entirely too seriously

[Satan]

I'm trying and have been trying to get my point across to you, that in a dual relationship, these things (tasks, roles, efforts, consideration for shared dutied) come naturally and effortlessly. This is the reason why these relations are the most favorable, because supplements of the dual's natural state of being naturally fills in for the things that are missing in the other pair's life/psyche. Your dual fulfills, covers and does these roles because that's what they like to do naturally. My cousin says to me that she hates to clean the floors, but doesn't mind doing the dishes. I like to clean her floors, but I could also do the dishes. I feel like you don't listen to me.

Dual relation is highly valued, but it's not full of overwhelming hormonal reaction of infatuation, like other relationship. It doesn't make you feel like you're alive; it makes you feel like you, just the most comfortable version of you.

I bake out of love or routine; so if I don't love you, you might never get cookies from me, and if I haven't put cookie making on my routine then you're not getting cookies.

.D. .o. . . .y. .o. .u. . . .d. .o. . . .h. .a. .s. .h. . . .c. .o. .o. .k. .i. .e. .s. .?.

[Marie84]

Well, your dad didn't "almost kill you" (you're definitely IEI ) because he's your conflictor in socionics - he was probably not aware of how to handle you properly or give you the input and freedom you need. I wouln't 'blame socionics' or his type, I'd more see it that he was lacking proper awareness about how to give you what you needed to blossom. Or, perhaps, he didn't care about you at all and was a jerk. IDK. You tell me which?

Generally people are unaware that they're causing harm, and often do so when they're trying to help. In this sense conflicting relations is like subconscious abuse, that being a form of abuse that is inflicted without intent to cause harm, or as you said "unawareness"

[UDP]

undeveloped remark #4356

the different clubs within a quadra offer each other the ability to explain consequences of the things a type is inherently predisposed to be confused about or not put that much emphasis on (the 'weak functions').

Personal and cultural and other values influence the nature of the explanations.

ehhh