Delta Lounge

[UDP]

So yeah, I kind of just wanted to have a general sort of chatty, sort of anything goes thread, where you could post whatever is on your mind, even if it isn't particularly coherent or "new thread worthy".... with a delta flair/focus. Something in between 'private blog' and 'anything goes', but here in delta quadra.

So yeah, go ahead.


I was reading the wiki socion as per LSE and EII
Logical sensing extrovert - Wikisocion
Particularly the male/female portraits and subtypes.

It's kind of amazing how the female portrait reminds me of certain people, some EIIs. I was thinking about my youth recently, and thinking about the girls in school I liked or was drawn to, even then, and the EII female portrait reminded me of those things. I talked about flirting with an SEE a lot in high school, but I was never particularly drawn to her other than her being drawn to me and the entertainment of that. I always liked quiet, somewhat studious, (I like the word "assiduous") types - those were the ones I was really 'drawn' to. And its funny how that applies to nowadays, as well.

Also, I wondered about which subtype I am. Reading the descriptions, I see elements of both in me. I think the Te subtype is too serious and stiff, and the Si subtype too loose and irrational. I know vaguely of the DNCHWHATEVER model, but, I'm kind of not sold on that one yet.

mm

so what are y'all doing for thanksgiving?

[1981slater]

LSE Te: cold, moves slowly

LSE Si: engaging, moves quickly

[1981slater]

EII Fi: slim, serious

EII Ne: chubby, joker

[717495]

I tend to view the whole delta forum as a lounge, that in many ways, ignores the rest of the forum. Hey, look. I'm being aristocratic. Time for a type change.

[1981slater]

so what are y'all doing for thanksgiving?

We don't celebrate Thanksgiving in Spain, we bullfight. But, anyway, I think you already knew it, since you visited Spain after defeating Balrog.

[1981slater]

Polikujm, you are Ti-LSI

[717495]

I'm also a biker.

[1981slater]

What kind of bikes are you into?

[717495]

[1981slater]

How old are you?
You are Polish, aren't you?
Where do you live?

[717495]

I'm 23, French, live at 34 Erwin Park Rd, Montclair, NJ 07042, and I'm a biker.

[1981slater]

I'm 23, French, live at 34 Erwin Park Rd, Montclair, NJ 07042, and I'm a biker.

Delta chit-chat

[717495]

Do you touch rocks?

[1981slater]

Do you touch rocks?

Whenever I go to the beach or to the mountains

[717495]

I didn't know that you go to the beach or the mountains. This is something about you I can take with me, and I can feel good learning about people. Thank you for enlightening me.

[Marie84]

Neat thread, I don't have much to randomly post about atm but I might contribute later.

About your post though...
I was always under the impression that extroverts don't really notice or at least are not drawn to their dual until they have developed a relationship with one.
Did your attraction begin after you met one or was it just always there?

And about subtypes, I'm not a particular fan or the theory. They, more or less, seem to describe two different moods of each type, at least that's been my observation.

EII Fi: slim, serious

EII Ne: chubby, joker

I'm a medium built serious joker, what subtype is that? :wink:

[1981slater]

I'm a medium built serious joker, what subtype is that? :wink:

Throw a dice:

1,3,5 Ne subtype
2,4 Fi subtype

[Marie84]

What about EII subtype "none"

[717495]

Medium-built is fat. Just live with it. And you just made a joke, and it sucked. Ne subtype. But I know you won't take me seriously.

[Marie84]

Medium-built is fat. Just live with it. And you just made a joke, and it sucked. Ne subtype. But I know you won't take me seriously.

I guess it depends on what you consider "fat". The type of slenderness that seems to be associated with some EII makes it sound like EII females are typically shaped like prepubescent boys (i.e. Calista Flockheart as you mentioned before) hence why I state "medium"


If subtype is indeed real it couldn't be accurately used in correlation with body shape, anyways, as that would ignore genetic factors and lifestyle, which has nothing to do with Socionics

[jessica129]

I don't even know when Thanksgiving is. It's amazing how little holiday's matter as you get older and are not near family. I'll be working.

[717495]

Lifestyle has a lot to do with Socionics, but I do believe most methods of physiognomy to be inaccurate.

[eunice]

I don't even know when Thanksgiving is. It's amazing how little holiday's matter as you get older and are not near family. I'll be working.

I have also lost touch of public holidays.

[Galen]

Throw a die:

plurals aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[DirectorAbbie]

According to those descriptions, I can act like an Si subtype but am more often a Te subtype. My best friend is an ILI, and a Te subtype would get along better with them. I initially decided I was a Te subtype because Brilliand said the #2 subtype is better with #5 and the #1 subtype is better with #6. Then Brilliand said he thinks I'm an ESE. That's certainly wrong, but it made me think I might be an Si subtype instead of a Te subtype as I'd supposed.

Enneagram subtypes are much simpler.

SLIs are nice and sensible. LSEs are sensible and productive. EIIS are nice and relaxing. IEEs are silly and unpredictable.

It's cold today. I hate cold.

[UDP]

Neat thread, I don't have much to randomly post about atm but I might contribute later.

About your post though...
I was always under the impression that extroverts don't really notice or at least are not drawn to their dual until they have developed a relationship with one.
Did your attraction begin after you met one or was it just always there?

I've been 'attracted' to various types of women. So I'm not tying to say that I've always inherently been attracted to my dual, only. That's surely not the case. But it's a matter of a certain appeal. Extratim women seem too much in my face with certain things - I really do not enjoy other people's initiatives being suggested or asked of me, that's not appealing at all.

But I do think, really, that I've learned over the years what types of women I'm simply more compatible with in general - what kind of people, in general, really. It takes time and experience. So while I still remember things from my highschool/etc days (for example, this one girl who was very emotionally subdued, obviously not Fe valuing, studious, kind of shy but also good natured - she stood out in certain ways), I think it's more a sense of realizing what works for you over time.

Socionics is nice because it sort of gives you a general group to fit people with certain natures in - so, outside of 'my dual', even, I realize the things that I'd have to do or expect if I was in a relationship with another type.

As far as duality goes, though, I think Rick has an article on his site about the dualization process - and it says how once you meet more duals and have more dual experience, you realize how that relationship works out more and become more 'fluent' in making that relationship work. (I have a feeling most type relationships are that way, really. For example, over time, I've learned how to deal with LSIs, how to work with them and let them have there area of functionality, such as in group projects; you just learn what people 'want' or 'expect' and how types react to certain things).

I was talking to someone else about this recently, though, in regard to duality: sometimes, when I'm around duals, I "don't feel anything". But that feeling of nothingness has to do with being around so many other people where I feel like I have to translate or say things a certain way, people whose inherent 'values' aren't the same as mine. So, sometimes, when I'm around a dual, the 'lack of fuss' seems strange... but then you realize how comfortable and appealing that is. I think if you don't have a lot of experience with your dual, that 'lack of fuss' could seem boring or insignificant at first, but as you get more experience and understanding, you realize that feeling as being part of a feeling of calmness and 'peace', if you will.

The favorite person in my family has always been an EII aunt of mine - who fits that EII female description fairly well - was someone I always realized I got along well with. With her, there's just a sense that we were always on the same team as far as going about things or dealing with family issues: we both didn't really want a lot of fussing or arguing, we both preferred there to be something productive going on, we both shared an understanding and concern about how the younger kids (I was the eldest 'grandchild' so to say) should be raised or taught or problems they have with development. And as I got older I was able to be more assertive in terms of physically doing things - like dealing with Se issues (bugs in the house, carrying things, breaking up disputes, etc), which she seemed super appreciative of. So, with her, it was always a sense of simply being on the same page, particularly in a "what do I need/want to feel like things are going well/smoothly/enjoyably kind of way".

An EII at school is kind of the same way, really, as far as that compatibility I just mentioned. My interaction with her has been a little different, as we're the same age and both at school. She always seems to forget to eat so, I've often brought her food whenever we end up working on projects together. It's not even something I particularly recognize as intentional on my part, I have just developed associating that this person with sharing food or bringing cookies to/with. Because of her nature, she ends up supporting things but sometimes trying to do jobs she's not particularly fit for (like she wasn't that experienced with planning a road trip to an event online - but she took it anyways because it had to be done), so, I 'respect that' about her, and was drawn to help her because its something I have more experience with. She was somewhat improperly delegated the job, but she didn't complain about it and had a sense of responsibility about it, so, things like that I notice - she took it up because she cared about the people/team/objective. So I ended up helping with her; as I expected, the person who was supposed to help with her flaked out and didn't really do that much, so we ended up working together. Somehow it came up that she was hungry and I ended up finding some fruit which held her over. Etc etc etc. I don't know if she subconsciously realizes our compatibility in that way (probably?), but, she generally enjoys being around me and I think she's grown to feel comfortable around me as such.

So I think it's really a sense of understanding how your dual wants you to be. Honestly, I find that my dual wants me to be the person that I really am, mostly - which is confusing because when you spend a lot of time with non-dual people you can develop certain habits or ways of dealing with things. And then, over time, I think the more you spend time with that dual, you fine tune your interactions based on your dual seeking function / their ego block, etc.

And about subtypes, I'm not a particular fan or the theory. They, more or less, seem to describe two different moods of each type, at least that's been my observation.

What is confusing to me is that there are some people who seem clearly Rational or Irrational subtype, but then others not so much.

[UDP]

According to those descriptions, I can act like an Si subtype but am more often a Te subtype. My best friend is an ILI, and a Te subtype would get along better with them. I initially decided I was a Te subtype because Brilliand said the #2 subtype is better with #5 and the #1 subtype is better with #6. Then Brilliand said he thinks I'm an ESE. That's certainly wrong, but it made me think I might be an Si subtype instead of a Te subtype as I'd supposed.

Enneagram subtypes are much simpler.

Yeah.

Te subtype makes a lot of sense to you, but, perhaps that's because you're E1. I know an E6 LSE and an E1w9 LSE, and for the latter, I'm really not sure if he's Si or Te subtype. He's probably Te because he's very ... 'slow' in mannerisms or something like that. Basically like Hank Hill from "king of the hill". So I don't know.

SLIs are nice and sensible. LSEs are sensible and productive. EIIS are nice and relaxing. IEEs are silly and unpredictable.

It's cold today. I hate cold.

Yeah

I don't mind the cold if I have means to deal with it (heat, lots of clothing). Where do you live that it is so cold?

Given everything, it is fairly pleasant here right now (NY state).

[DirectorAbbie]

I don't mind the cold if I have means to deal with it (heat, lots of clothing). Where do you live that it is so cold?

Southern Nevada. You northerners probably wouldn't consider it cold, but I'm wearing a sweater and I'm still cold.

[UDP]

it was 65 in midnovember - that was kind of scary... Not just for one day, either. But now it's colder again.

[DirectorAbbie]

it was 65 in midnovember - that was kind of scary... Not just for one day, either. But now it's colder again.

It's in the 60s now. I like the 80s. Cloudy, warm, and mostly dry with minimun wind is ideal.

[Marie84]

wow thank you for the explanation, Ryu, I found it insightful.

You make a good point about having to stop adjusting your personality when around a dual, after years of having to put on a front for other types

What is confusing to me is that there are some people who seem clearly Rational or Irrational subtype, but then others not so much.

Perhaps this is more due to other factors than actual subtype. I don't believe every aspect of a person can be explained by Socionics, they're also environmental issues among other things

[Simon Ssmall]

I hate cold. Why on earth I leave warm countries and head home each time it's winter...

[leckysupport]

What I've been thinking about lately.

These about Si on .us:

*associating objects to a specific location or object
*tangible connections between processes happening in one place and time

...seem to correlate with Hume's first rule used to determine whether or not a cause and effect situation exists. Which is:

The cause and effect must be contiguous in space and time.

So an example of this would be dropping a pencil in my bedroom and then hearing a sound when the pencil hits the ground. Space being my bedroom and time being the time between when the pencil hits the ground and the sound heard.

Contrast that to Ni on .us:

*intangible connections between processes separated in time and space

An example of being separated in space would be a whistle going off in a factory in Manchester and then workers leaving a factory in London. Space being London and Manchester, so not contiguous in space, but contiguous in time because as soon as the whistle in Manchester goes off the workers in London leave their factory.

Ni operates in situations where it is extremely difficult to obtain enough information to tell whether or not a cause leads to an effect and Si operates where the cause and effect can be found out given you have enough information.

Some issues with Occam's razor and parsimony:

Parsimony - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

George Benson:

[UDP]

It's in the 60s now. I like the 80s. Cloudy, warm, and mostly dry with minimun wind is ideal.

Sounds like you might like a town called Arlen, Texas.

[DirectorAbbie]

Sounds like you might like a town called Arlen, Texas.

Really? Is it somewhat small? Does it have a theatric club?

[Galen]

Being a San Francisco man myself, I much prefer the cold in any situation.

[UDP]

..

Ni seems weird to me. Outside of the 'seeing time' aspect, and something in another thread that lokiV started today with some good responses (which tunnel to travel through to get to y our destination), it seems kind of silly and arbitrary.

I associate Ni (valuing, or dominance) with people who are narrow minded and focused more on getting somewhere or pursuing a certain tunnel because that tunnel WILL bring results.

I don't know, objectively, in reality, if it is a better decision making factor or not. But it is cool and probably would be something useful for me to consider and keep in mind, particularly what is in my mind right now from the tunnel analogy. One piece of what is in my mind is that even though focusing on a tunnel can be arbitrary at times, sometimes certain things have definite tunnels for the best times or mannerisms to go about them, and when you do realize that, you have to stay to it.

Sometimes focusing so much on equifinality or variation has its limitations.

[07490]

I was talking to someone else about this recently, though, in regard to duality: sometimes, when I'm around duals, I "don't feel anything". But that feeling of nothingness has to do with being around so many other people where I feel like I have to translate or say things a certain way, people whose inherent 'values' aren't the same as mine. So, sometimes, when I'm around a dual, the 'lack of fuss' seems strange... but then you realize how comfortable and appealing that is. I think if you don't have a lot of experience with your dual, that 'lack of fuss' could seem boring or insignificant at first, but as you get more experience and understanding, you realize that feeling as being part of a feeling of calmness and 'peace', if you will.

I've always wanted to express this but you put this in the most concise way possible, good job.

[leckysupport]

Ni seems weird to me. Outside of the 'seeing time' aspect, and something in another thread that lokiV started today with some good responses (which tunnel to travel through to get to y our destination), it seems kind of silly and arbitrary.

I associate Ni (valuing, or dominance) with people who are narrow minded and focused more on getting somewhere or pursuing a certain tunnel because that tunnel WILL bring results.

I don't know, objectively, in reality, if it is a better decision making factor or not. But it is cool and probably would be something useful for me to consider and keep in mind, particularly what is in my mind right now from the tunnel analogy. One piece of what is in my mind is that even though focusing on a tunnel can be arbitrary at times, sometimes certain things have definite tunnels for the best times or mannerisms to go about them, and when you do realize that, you have to stay to it.

Sometimes focusing so much on equifinality or variation has its limitations.

Yep, agree with the sentiment.

While we're having a pathetic reactionary response to the recent Ni worship...

Ni can't actually predict the future, in fact no one can, any claim that this is the case in any way is clearly bollocks. IME a lot of Ni ego types in the real world have realised this fact and approach predictions with extreme doubt.

Also the claim that Ni polr is simply about missing corrections while Ni sees all the connections really doesn't make much sense. IME Ni egos miss many a vital detail that clearly matters for creating a accurate picture of what happens in a particular situation. So if Ni egos are missing these details they have just a good picture (but different picture) of what's going on as Ni polrs.

[DirectorAbbie]

While we're having a pathetic reactionary response to the recent Ni worship...

Ni can't actually predict the future, in fact no one can, any claim that this is the case in any way is clearly bollocks. IME a lot of Ni ego types in the real world have realised this fact and approach predictions with extreme doubt.

Also the claim that Ni polr is simply about missing corrections while Ni sees all the connections really doesn't make much sense. IME Ni egos miss many a vital detail that clearly matters for creating a accurate picture of what happens in a particular situation. So if Ni egos are missing these details they have just a good picture (but different picture) of what's going on as Ni polrs.

So there's no point to having ? Sounds good to me.