Duality?

[Minde]

Would you expect duals to have consistent communication problems and misunderstandings? Not just every once in awhile, randomly, but about the same kinds of things and over and over and over. How about expectations of behavior or reactions that don't ever get met? Is a regular grating and sense of mismatch normal dual feeling?

For example, one party naturally assuming things to remain stable, and the other assuming things keep changing. You might think that reflects Static/Dynamic, as per what you'd see in two duals, but should it cause constant friction? Should it cause a deep divide in the way the world is perceived and dealt with, and thus how the two parties deal with each other?

How about something like expectations of initiation? If one party expects the other to initiate and to push to get their way, but the other does not naturally operate like that...? What then? Two "cold"s(introverts)? Or differing subtypes?

What about regularly bringing out the worst in each other?

What about focussing on different parts of the conversation, often completely missing each other's points and meanings?

Can you explain things like that away? Could it be caused by non-socionic things? Like differences in culture, upbringing, gender, worldview...? Or are such things strong indications of a general lackage of dual-ness? Is it possible for duals to have a really hard time communicating?

I'd like to know what the rest of this particular socionics community thinks of this. And, yes, in case there is any question, I am indeed being serious here.

[xerx]

Would you expect duals to have consistent communication problems and misunderstandings? Not just every once in awhile, randomly, but about the same kinds of things and over and over and over. How about expectations of behavior or reactions that don't ever get met? Is a regular grating and sense of mismatch normal dual feeling?

I've had communication breakdown with almost every dual I've met.. at first. Then things take a 90 degree turn towards creepy levels of mutual understanding.

[Minde]

I've had communication breakdown with almost every dual I've met.. at first. Then things take a 90 degree turn towards creepy levels of mutual understanding.

How long and how much communication does it take for that turn to take place?

The kind of communication I'm referencing is long term, btw, with the symptoms even perhaps getting worse over time.

[xerx]

How long and how much communication does it take for that turn to take place?

The kind of communication I'm referencing is long term, btw, with the symptoms even perhaps getting worse over time.

What's happened to me usually: in the 1st stage the ISFp makes fun of me for being clumsy, being too theoretical, having my head in the clouds, and/or being really energetic. I think of the ISFp as a bit simple. We still "get" each other's communication styles though.

In the 2nd stage things enter a lull where we begin to respect each other and constructively laugh at each other's jokes. Things are sort of neutral at this stage.

In the 3rd stage we actually begin to defend each other. And so on.

This takes some months to a year. In one of them, it actually took 3 years of highschool to get to the second stage.

[Slacker]

I pretty immediately was on the same wavelength with my husband, but I can't say for sure it's been that way with every SLI. If it's been happening for a while, I think the most likely reason is that one of the two people involved is mistyped.

[tiny_dancer]

Yes, I've had all of those things happen with duals. It's a different sort of mismatch than it is with an LSI. Mismatches with duals more likely result from maturity levels or lifestyle. For instance, with my ex, there were a lot of expectations we brought into the relationship based on our previous experiences and our own stupidity. (lol) Another SLI - we just can't get past the awkward conversations and humor mismatches. I don't know why. Maybe we just got off on the wrong foot due to other circumstances. I don't know what would correct it. It's not bad, just awkward. I would say that things have definitely gotten worse, in the awkward sense, but perhaps they'll get better later.

It took me 8 years to break the ice with another one.

There's a difference between those types of mismatches and being around an LSI. I can literally feel the difference in thinking when I interact with them. I can sense that they have a sequential order to their thinking and I'm (unintentionally) throwing them off-base. SLIs follow my train of thought automatically, even if they don't agree. A lot of what they say is a page from my own head, even if I want to hit them really hard for other reasons.

My ex brought out a side of me that I didn't like at all, but it had to do with maturity levels and silly presumptions.. and more than a little paranoia based on his past behavior and lifestyle. It only got worse as we were together. But in other ways I still grew a lot while I was with him.

I don't know. There can be a deep divide between myself and SLIs, but it's a different sort of divide than with other types.

[Lobo]

Well, I do believe that such disagreements can take place. Duality, and any other socionics relation, is purely information based, and does not take into account other factors, such as upbringing, culture, etc. At least for me, I've met ESTjs that I didn't particularly get along with and vice-versa... The only thing I can contribute to what you're asking is that yes, those things can happen, but I would attribute them more so to aspects outside of socionics. Also, I would generally consider duality as being prone to misunderstandings, since each party likes their information in a certain way.

You mentioned that your bad side is brought out. Assuming it's not violence, what do you mean by this? Using verbal attacks?

[Jarno]

Would you expect duals to have consistent communication problems and misunderstandings? Not just every once in awhile, randomly, but about the same kinds of things and over and over and over. How about expectations of behavior or reactions that don't ever get met? Is a regular grating and sense of mismatch normal dual feeling?

For example, one party naturally assuming things to remain stable, and the other assuming things keep changing. You might think that reflects Static/Dynamic, as per what you'd see in two duals, but should it cause constant friction? Should it cause a deep divide in the way the world is perceived and dealt with, and thus how the two parties deal with each other?

How about something like expectations of initiation? If one party expects the other to initiate and to push to get their way, but the other does not naturally operate like that...? What then? Two "cold"s(introverts)? Or differing subtypes?

What about regularly bringing out the worst in each other?

What about focussing on different parts of the conversation, often completely missing each other's points and meanings?

Can you explain things like that away? Could it be caused by non-socionic things? Like differences in culture, upbringing, gender, worldview...? Or are such things strong indications of a general lackage of dual-ness? Is it possible for duals to have a really hard time communicating?

I'd like to know what the rest of this particular socionics community thinks of this. And, yes, in case there is any question, I am indeed being serious here.

you point out a couple of traits that are also often seen in conflictors. That's strange.

But well, yeah there is some misunderstanding in duals, but compared to other relationships it's not really often.

I think that I don't recognize that much in your post. Duality is usually relaxed and trusted, respect and understanding.

[Beautiful sky]

Would you expect duals to have consistent communication problems and misunderstandings?

Great question. No absolutely not. Duals have the best communication and understanding. Come over and meet my cousin and morphologally type her and you can observe that very same pattern with your other duals because you have the capability of seeing the internal potential of an object, which is Ne.

Not just every once in awhile, randomly, but about the same kinds of things and over and over and over. How about expectations of behavior or reactions that don't ever get met? Is a regular grating and sense of mismatch normal dual feeling?

If you see this problem then you're not in a dual relationship. By classical socionics, LSE because of their Ni, examine their past errors and try not to repeat them again.

For example, one party naturally assuming things to remain stable, and the other assuming things keep changing. You might think that reflects Static/Dynamic, as per what you'd see in two duals, but should it cause constant friction? Should it cause a deep divide in the way the world is perceived and dealt with, and thus how the two parties deal with each other?

Actually LSE like stable environments and don't like a lot of change.

How about something like expectations of initiation? If one party expects the other to initiate and to push to get their way, but the other does not naturally operate like that...? What then? Two "cold"s(introverts)? Or differing subtypes?

LSE like it when their duals Initiate things.

What about regularly bringing out the worst in each other?

Duals bring out the best in each other.

What about focussing on different parts of the conversation, often completely missing each other's points and meanings?

No. Unless they don't listen and pay attention and don't promise to change their behavior, which almost always they will. You have to understand that they are very logical and economical and will do what's most logical also they can feel your responses with Si and can accurately determine your mood so they will be attuned to you and responsive to you. They don't miss each other's point of view unless you don't tell them. Unless what you're doing is somehow not what they think you're doing and they make an assumption, they will most of the time, be right about you; they are objective and can figure people out fast because they can evaluate objects well.

Can you explain things like that away? Could it be caused by non-socionic things? Like differences in culture, upbringing, gender, worldview...? Or are such things strong indications of a general lackage of dual-ness? Is it possible for duals to have a really hard time communicating?

Socionics is aligned with natural processes. The only sad thing about relationships is when people fall in love with an object assuming that shallow things can be developed into meaningful relations without considering duality and dual relations first.

I don't communicate well in the spoken language. When you see me and my dual together, she always listen very well and correctly estimates the next thing I will say, often filling in my speech where I am too embarrased or shy to say what I want to say. Te acts that way and it's accurate assumptions are very correct, precise, and methodical. Because they know how things will play out even before they have begun and that's how their minds work, they can and are better in speech then us introverts. They correctly help you express your emotions towards things.

I'd like to know what the rest of this particular socionics community thinks of this. And, yes, in case there is any question, I am indeed being serious here.

I have known many socionists who are married to duals. Rod Novichkov is one and the others are Russian. I would be happy to forward you Rod's email.

[twitch]

From my understanding of Duals, you easily miss them. It takes a lot of work and effort in the relationship, however due to the connection they have it usually pulls off well. It doesn't mean perfection, in fact it is very complicated as you two are very different people. There usually is a lot of sacrificing in these relations, where one partner or both get hurt.

...... i know some people on here would disagree to this. Maybe they aren't looking at their real duals, only their imagined ones.

...... or perhaps i am mistaken. like i said, this is from my understanding and what i have observed in dual couples.