I'd like to know all about how an IEI polr function ofwould supposedly manifest itself.
IEI Extroverted Thinking Te Polr (INFp)
I'd like to know all about how an IEI polr function of
It means you are eternally bound to maudlin idealism.
4w3-5w6-8w7
"It means you are eternally bound to maudlin idealism."
Hahaha. Anywhere I can get a more in-depth description?
You definitely won't get one from a Te-polr!
4w3-5w6-8w7
Here is the IEIs Te description from a source that I like.
from socionics.ws/wiki
When confronted with a large body of factual information with which they are unacquainted, IEIs will often hesitate and refrain from saying anything so as to avoid appearing unknowledgeable or potentially embarrassing themselves. They may feel threatened and vacillate if pressured into producing critical evaluations of factual information or statistics; they may feel as though they do not know what to do with this type of information, and often prefer to rely on their internal conceptual framework use their understanding of the relevant processes to evaluate a situation. They may also be wary of basing their beliefs or actions on facts from outside sources, instead preferring to rely on their own insights. These behaviors can sometimes lead to confusion and lack of clarity, as they may have difficulty clearly explaining and underscoring the information pertinent their ideas.
They are often unconcerned with optimizing productivity or efficiency. They may generally try to avoid evaluating cost-effectiveness of resources, and are often not apt at making such discriminations. They may see persons who focus extensively on practical matters as boring and inanimate. They deeply dislike and can avoid tedious and disinteresting tasks that involve attention to detail and pragmatic focus, such as managing one's finances. They usually are exhausted by these tasks; they have no interest in and little idea how to do them, and often find it difficult to focus. They may be petulant and unresponsive in encounters with individuals who try to mobilize them into productive tasks, and may feel that such individuals are bossy and contemptible.
They may seem overly dreamy, lost in their own enterprises, and generally oblivious to the nature of the mundane tasks that surround them.
they don't manage money very well. they hate routine tasks and blow them off. they prefer an out of the box thinking style rather than a go by the book way to do things.
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
This is a translation of Te-vulnerable discussion from russian-speaking socionics forums: http://socionik.com/thread/11317.html
Posted by LanaGor (type IEI):
"I decided to share this because all too often I have encountered strange ideas about type IEI on this forum that depicted them as deliberate and principled slackers, deadbeats, and spendthrifts. One gets the impression that the IEI's "painful" Te get mistaken for self-indulgence and a penchant for laziness that allows them to work in a slipshod negligent manner, or to not work at all, to spend all of their money going into debt - and even be proud of this! As if Yesenin is saying: "This is simply the kind of creature that I am, with painful business logic, so what do you want from me now? I cannot, don't want to, and I will not do this!" Meanwhile, it has also been my observations that the presence of such statements in typing questionnaires usually indicate some different type from TIM IEI.
Let's take a look at the Socionics reference material.
What is painful (vulnerable) Extraverted Logic?
E. Filatova: "in the sphere of exerting influence … this person is most vulnerable, acts with uncertainty, often feels plagued by doubt, and in most severe cases - an inferiority complex."
A. Ausra: "Block SUPEREGO IEI: Si Te. This block of superego is the social conformity, informational block. This is the block of social expectations, in implementation of which the person tries to do what is already expected of him or her by society. It is means of reproduction of an objective picture of the external reality, the block of orientation in objective reality. The "conscience" of a person.
The object of orientation. The object of orientation in the external world for such a person is space and the sensations that this space evokes: the well-being of a person."
E. Filatova: "Reality is - primary. It consists of the fact that in order to survive people have to work efficiently and effectively, creating material wealth, and that the value of any idea lies in the possibility of its practical realization."
Thus, we have that the "vulnerable" function is associated with the performance expected of a person by other people, with greatest vulnerability, suspiciousness, complexes, and even one's conscience. In the case of IEI-slacker, how could it be then that "vulnerable" Te is presented with such bravado and demonstrative indifference? Perhaps too many people who dabble in socionics are not accustomed to reading and putting together what they have read to notice such contradictions. It says: "uncertainty, vigilant suspicion, personal inferiority complex" - and not the reverse: "Let's put this on display for everyone!"
When a person is faced with pressure to their painful function i.e. forced to somehow give a report here, evaluate himself and others, make assessments and evaluations, no bravado gets put forward, alas, not even for purpose of self-defense. One cannot make a "shield of nonchalance" from >painful< function. Therefore, if you have someone sitting in their workplace, shooting paper airplanes at the ceiling, and to questions about work calmly replying "I don't feel like it", "I can't make myself do this now", and especially "I'm Yesenin, I have painful business logic" - don't hurry to type such a person as a Te PoLR type, because they likely don't have painful Te.
Painful Te cannot be equated with a chronic inability to work. These are different things, and the relationship between them for an IEI is such that when an IEI encounters problems at work, his conscience starts to seriously bother him or her, and the IEI will never calmly relate to having problems with work. Availability of nearby dual saves only by minimizing the problems themselves but never by relieving them completely, once and for all.
"Still, - some will object to me - even "certified" IEIs will refer to themselves as idlers quite frankly!" This is indeed so. Let us see in which cases the IEI tends to consider him/herself a bum.
- When work brings the IEI pleasure personally. Then this is no work at all - this is entertainment. And entertainment is not a real job.
- When work is given to the IEI with great difficulty. Then this, too, is not work, but some kind of incompetent amateur stumblng around, that another person could have done faster and better.
- When work falls into the category "everybody does it, and even more," for example, cooking dinner, cleaning up one's home, going to the store, doing homework with your child, going to the fitness center.
- When the IEI is resting (for what is he tired from? would have been better if he was tired from real work ...).
- When the IEI is engaged in various urgent matters (but needs to do something else, for those other things present as more serious matters, seriously).
- When the IEI does something that doesn't bring results, for example, studying foreign language without much success, not being able to "discipline" the noisy neighbors, not getting his kid earn good grades in school, trying to lose weight without success, etc.
- When the IEI is underpaid.
- When the IEI is overpaid.
- ... and so on.
To put it simply: when does the IEI NOT consider himself a slacker?
Only in one case: When there is somebody else who lets the IEI understand (not simply describe!) the meaning and benefit of his work. As well as delineates a framework when activities and work can be stopped, or put aside, and when he has have every right to relax.
And if we are considering the painful function, then we have to consider it in the context of the entire Superego block i.e. in conjunction with role Si. In this case, the role function is working against the person. In particular, the IEI finds it extremely difficult to recognize his or her right to elementary tiredness. This right the IEI can only get from outside, from society around him or her: in the best case - from a dual, in the worst case - from own body, quite simply, falling from exhaustion (or even from sickness).
Painful Te is also unable to assess the costs of labor, particularly new type of labor. Therefore, the IEI finds it extremely difficult to give up on something (from shame), as well as to agree to something (what if he/she can't manage it?)
Evaluating the quality of accomplished works also very difficult. "There is no limit to perfection" - to IEI this are not empty words, but a call to action and the source of constant alarm and anxiety: is my work of sufficient quality or should it be better?
Even more difficult - the question of Yesenin's salary. A particularly problematic situation is when IEI's manager believes that IEI's labor costs so much, while his friends, family members, and close people assure him/her that this is too little, and say "go and demand more". In such a situation, a person can simply get sick.
And finally, the sacramental: "How do I get myself work and make money?!"
I think that all people experience such states and feelings, when one doesn't want to work on anything, especially people working in creative fields. But it is precisely painful Te in conjunction with role Si that makes Yesenins see a big problem in it, that brings them to anguish and despair.
What I want to say by all of this?
Only one thing. Painful Extroverted Logic - is an always agonizing conscience about one's own (in)activity. It is constant subjective undervaluation of one's own labor; it is eternal uncertainty in one's own performance at work; it is an inability to take a break with a clean heart and soul. It is a fundamental inability to say "I will not!" when you are being asked to do something that you don't know how to do well (especially asked "nicely"). For difficulties and poor results you will blame precisely yourself, remembering your entire life and blaming yourself for being too lethargic and insufficiently active, blaming yourself for being incapable and never learning the necessary skills, because you could have studied the material more or learned a foreign language at least to the level of corrector. And the idea that it should have been the fault of the professor for not teaching the material well, or the person who dumped all this foreign text editing on you, does not even come into your head, and even if it forms, you will feel painfully uncertain and ashamed about it ...
Thus, if you are hoping to type yourself as IEI and then simply sit back and casually tell about your problems at work, with salary, with budgeting and finances, and then type yourself into IEI, pointing out how this is your painful Te, then ... then maybe it makes sense to look yourself in another, more suitable TIM?**"
**Especially type EIE, that has a more nonchalant and casual experience of Te as their role and not "painful" function.
Last edited by silke; 05-23-2018 at 10:56 PM.
<33. nope, not te polr.Originally Posted by Pookie
i've wondered if its ni because ne is supposed to be about "objective" conceptualizations, it was ni egos who helped me understand the concept when i didn't, and its common for alpha nts here to talk about the theory more like its hard science. but this doesn't hold true across the board and maybe its just a matter of intelligence.
.
Last edited by mfckr; 12-25-2014 at 01:29 AM.
Te PoLRs are efficient in things that in the large scope of Efficiency don´t need to be efficient or to put it that way they are efficient were it is the least efficient to do so. Unecessary Efficiency leads to a waste of Resources which in the greater picture is the opposite of Efficiency.
I could hit you with the data, but i wouldnt believe it.I'd like to know all about how an IEI polr function of
Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.
<---- starts seeing quotes and references goes zzzzzzz halfway through the post. Starts feeling self conscious because it doesn't really sound nice to jump in a topic with a "TLDR" but still does for bah... just feels right... gosh I had to go shopping today I'm out of toilet paper... actually have been for a few days, thanks god there's plenty of paper napkins in the kitchen... "hey lilith, how about me and dad come over to see you?" "well okay, if you still have a map of what my appartment should look like and you don't mind not walking on the papers scattered on the floor and won't stumble into stuff... heck, I didn't do the dishes"... "hey lilith, what are we eating for dinner tonight?" "hmmm take out?"... "lilith your desk looks like a landfill and the company president is going to be here in 1 hour!" *grabs stuff and throws it in the locker" .... "lilith, everything I'm asking you is to schedule your work" two weeks later with piles of work on the desk "hey sir, I got an idea, how about you tell me what to do when?"
just some maybe extremized examples ontop of my mind
Do any IEIs actually relate the descriptions where, under Te-PoLR, it talks about wastefulness and not being good with money?
I think that may partially be an sp-thing?
...then again I am both sp-last *and* Te-PoLR, sometimes I can't tell which is which... ;___;
Are you referring to the instinctual variant? If so, I'm Sp-first and I am VERY careful with money, and I abhor waste.
Not wasteful but used to be very reckless with my money.
Fast money = easy come, easy go
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Money's not easy to come by here so it doesn't leave my pocket, except on laundry day
I am extremely wasteful and bad with money. I like buying myself pretty things, nothing especially complex about itI simply want to enjoy present moments as much as possible and not worry about the future. But I have a healthy feeling when enough is enough and when I have to start saving if I want to survive. I also feel like I will always somehow make it and everything will work out fine financially, even if it looks like I'm doomed. I don't like worrying about something as trivial as money, although ironically it means a lot more to me than I would like to admit (I would kinda kill myself if I was dirt-poor, as bad as it sounds). Although I've always been self-sufficient throughout my life, I would not oppose if someone would take care of money for me, if he really felt like it
. It just seems so...time-consuming to me. I've also never really understood world economy, stock markets, the circulation of money ...not that I'm not capable of understanding it, but it just feels like my brain rejects the very idea of remembering anything about such a dull topic (no offense to anyone
) . Which is why I sometimes feel like a dimwit when talking to some LSE's or LIE's.
I am extremely wasteful and bad with money. I like buying myself pretty things, nothing especially complex about it
http://esocionika.com/index.php?page...ry=6&article=3
IEI
Nothing brings me more pleasure than counting the income and the expenses. I know everything about the current deals in town. I dedicate my time only to practical and tangible things.
I will not spend any money on that useless pendant! Neither am I going to spend the money on the cool drawing set as I can't draw! Now, where did all my money go?..
This will be my mantra from now on. And I'm also planning to incorporate the EIE one: I am a fan of washing dishes. When I was dishes, tears of happiness run down my expresionless face.
I am a huge fan of washing dishes. When I wash dishes, tears of happiness run down my expressionless face.
P.S. I was just browsing for new drawings on Etsy while writing this. And I'm penniless as you might imagine
I need to adopt this one too!
I am a huge fan of washing dishes. When I wash dishes, tears of happiness run down my expressionless face.
P.S. I was just browsing for new drawings on Etsy while writing this. And I'm penniless as you might imagine
When I wash the dishes,
I am a huge fan of washing dishes. When I wash dishes, tears of happiness run down my expressionless face.
P.S. I was just browsing for new drawings on Etsy while writing this. And I'm penniless as you might imagine
Nothing much gets done;
With all the splashes and splishes,
I'm having too much fun!
The stock market is a circus -- your brain rejects it because it's madness. And dull, I concur. Very dull.I am extremely wasteful and bad with money. I like buying myself pretty things, nothing especially complex about it
Forget about the LSE's & Co. We'll let our SLE duals bring home the big bucks so we can get on with more worthwhile things.
I am extremely wasteful and bad with money. I like buying myself pretty things, nothing especially complex about it
it sounds ilke you are korean.
kinda off topic fuckin sue
best polr function is Fi fuck relationship
Chairman mao vs Deng Xiaoping
IEI vs LIE
Understand Mao's idealism in communism vs Deng's pragmatism, that lead him to destroy socialism essentially
Mao Zedong was almost certainly beta, I agree, but what's your argument for IEI?
I have been interested in studying recent chinese history since it has been so odd. Anywho, simply compare Mao to fuhr****** as a beginning, you notice the mutual idealism but fuhr was more realistic due his outward focus. He was always acutely aware of the energy he sent to others, he lead people and desired to have them feel his message; he took advantage of new opportunities , he was more in control.
Though Mao focused more on cultivating a vision, an ideal, he only wanted to be seen as a benovelent force. He never cared about anything outside his vision, its one of the reasons he would insist on abitary ideas that never even reflected the mood of the time, poor opportunity awareness. You see this with the famine and cultural revolution, he was only concerned with the idea.
This is not to insult IEI but those are some of their real negative traits. Mao was a true intellectual in his utter detachment from reality, you can see this in his commitment to fulfilling communist ideals, and utter apathy to what he'd view as the less important present conditions. It got to a point where it was so bad that he felt the cultural revolution was the only thing he could implement with minimal side effects, but that had unexpected poor results. Overall the mess he had created was catching up to him.
That makes a lot of sense. Hit-ler's creative-Ni would have kept him on the pulse of the sentiments of the masses, and determining the precise time to take action. With base-Ni, the idea is more important than the reality. IEIs want to be liked, it's true. When we look to the long term future, we see interpersonal obstacles rather than practical obstacles. I guess that's why we use Fe creatively, as though to make others better disposed towards us.
What traits would you say benefited Mao in his rise to power?
Well how he had a vision for the future well thought out despite the absence of any evidence to support it. Coming from a calamity people wanted reassurance for the future, his ideas pretty much brought that. They wanted to believe in a better future and he provided that; their present stat3 was terrible so promises were better than nothing he had uncertainty of the present for support.
EIE will attack their overall unrealistic idealism but they can't provide the overwhelming confidence IEI can in a really volatile and uncertain future. Robert Mugabe is another IEI who is too much like mao, he got into power for identical reasons.
someone has posted this about Te Polr
I’ve noticed that people with Te PoLR tend to disbelieve things that contradict their own experiences, and sometimes even have an easy time ignoring information that doesn’t agree with what they already know. Since Te is heavily related to external information, it makes sense that those weak in Te would have difficulty assessing how ‘correct’ that information is.
They also seem to have difficulty searching for information and assembling that information in a way that appears organized to an outside observer. A Te PoLR person always organizes information (like when explaining things verbally, or writing an outline—for example) in a way more consistent with the experience they had when hunting the information down; as well as more consistent with the message they wish to impart in listeners/viewers (Fe oriented—their creative function).
I think this is where Ti dual seeking comes in. Ti is related to consistency of information, and pinpointing the breakdown of ‘sense’ within a system. A Ti individual (ENTp or ESTp) won’t put emphasis on Te aspects of information, like focusing on external facts and their relevancy; instead they will build upon information and self-make a system of thought that is consistent with themselves and what they experience (Ti).
A process which goes hand-in-hand with the IxFp who builds experience based knowledge but is unsure of their own personal competence and looks for clarity in the information they find. A ExTp is able to point out inconsistencies in the information a IxFp brings forth, without using a long-winded explanation that delves deeply into details—which would poke the Te PoLR, making them less likely to listen.
In contrast, with Ti-leading types and their duals (ENFj-ISTj and ESFj-INTj) you see that in cases where the building of emotional atmospheres drifts too far in a direction, the Ti-leading will concisely, logically, and consistently “point out” the less than rational direction the ExFj is taking in a way that doesn’t disrupt the mood but does prompt the ExFj to redirect it (if they please, that is). There’s the same treatment of information, but it’s even more the center of their interactions.
I experience it at work places where i dont have instructions and my work leader just assumes that i know how to do things and whaat to do first. And then they complain and say something like "why are you doing this now? you were supposed to do this first obviously" and cause they didnt , for example, specify what tool to use i may choose the one thats least effective then theyre baffled by me choosing that. This happens when im new to something and obviosuly not when im used to it and know exactly what and when to do it.
I don't know whether I relate to the idea that Te-PoLR manifests as a person having issues determining the validity of external information.
Whether the dictionary is correct or incorrect doesn't really matter. It seems to be a source of information used by most people. The information gives a person a general idea of what a word means. Factoring connotation is the more difficult issue. You may not know how a word is interpreted by others because it involves their subjective perspective.
Maybe I am in need of other examples of Te-PoLR manifestation.
Would a person's PoLR be more easily identified by that individual or people who know the person?
I agree with you on the determining validity. I don't have a problem with that.
You have to figure it out for yourself. Others will tell you your polr is whatever information they are offering that you do not accept.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Any weak function is bad to have.
While what you say about Te is due to the lack of understanding of it.
Tell me how bad it is to have your weak functions?
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
What is Te polr to youI agree with you on the determining validity. I don't have a problem with that.
You have to figure it out for yourself. Others will tell you your polr is whatever information they are offering that you do not accept.
-
Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Keeping on top of things like paying bills on time and remembering to change my credit card number when autopay expires. Not checking email because I get overwhelmed by the sheer volume of it. Then trying to read and deleted and sort all in one day when the mood strikes me. I have most of that automated because it gives me a headache. Things like opening mail when I get it. I throw it in a box and sometimes wait months. I have an inner resistance to doing it until I feel like I have to. Not looking at my bank statement for months at a time. Remembering to do car maintenance as I was instructed to so my car doesn't die.
I am grateful to live in a time of autopay and automation in general.
I feel perfectly capable of determining the validity of information. I have research skills as well. All this was taught to me. If someone's source of information contradicts mine I am going with mine over theirs. If it contradicts my intuition they better have a great argument why their information is valid.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
For comparison I'm not like what you describe but I have periods of low will where I feel lack of energy and don't or can't to anything but to want to relax and do something pleasant like watch science channel
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
hah. i suffer from these matters too @Aylen. these are the sorts of reasons i originally self-typed a
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
