EII?

[Marie84]

I have not read the Holme's stories so can't confirm or deny any of the characters personalities in it, but it isn't rare for an author to create a dual, or other valued type, as the hero/narrator.
On the Socionics.ws board, there was a discussion about JK Rowling's type, in which I posted, from watching a documentary on her, that she's most likely an LIE. However, her main character in her series is an ESI. She, subconsciously, created an ideal hero in the form of a dual.

Anybody can be moral and active in ethical causes, even SLE's. In fact, most people I've met who do a lot of volunteering and organizing for causes are Fe dominants and Fi creatives, as they tend to thrive within the social atmosphere that accompanies being involved with these organizations

According to his biography he was quite erratic in his behaviour, for example he volunteered to go off to War as army Doctor and worked on a seal hunting/fishing ship.

Erratic and Ij doesn't really doesn't go together, since the anxiety of loosing ones stability is very bothersome to Ij's.

IMO LSEs are less likely to go off on such adventures if they have settle into a comfortable place and I would expect LSEs to look after their monetary interests a bit better if they did go into these kinds of adventures

I guess it depends. A lot of Te dominants are very adventurous people who enjoy travel and exploration; Jack London (LIE) is just an example of this. Perhaps Doyle is an LIE>LSE...? I know that he was very interested in spirituality and unknown mystical followings, which may point more towards Ni>Si.
As I would imagine LSE's would be more concerned with practical knowledge...

[UDP]

I guess it depends. A lot of Te dominants are very adventurous people who enjoy travel and exploration; Jack London (LIE) is just an example of this. Perhaps Doyle is an LIE>LSE...? I know that he was very interested in spirituality and unknown mystical followings, which may point more towards Ni>Si.
As I would imagine LSE's would be more concerned with practical knowledge...

My dealings with things have made me consider various aspects of spirituality and belief forms in general particularly because they are very practical in consequence; people's understanding and perception of religion and religious texts has a great influence. Also, a person's beliefs in general impact decision making; I need to understand that in order to comprehend decision making processes; that is important for understanding the process in general terms and the general sense of "making good decisions", and also in particular to make sure that things I care about are met with good decisions.


For example, if I'm concerned about environmental issues, and one Christian group is more supportive of my views where as another is more against it, me having no clue about Christianity is not going to help anything. The more I know about the religion, and particularly how various people interpret it and why, and how that translates into what the two different groups feel and why, the better.

[Marie84]

I probably should have been more specific by what I was referring to as spirituality, which I separate from religious beliefs that are intertwined with ethics and values

The type of mystical spirituality I'm speaking of is the belief, and deep interest in, mythological followings such as magic, fairies, seances, etc. That is what Doyle partook in.
Not to say it's impossible, but wouldn't a Delta ST find these types of followings too insignificant to preoccupy their time with...? As there is no real social, ethical or practical use for these types of beliefs, outside of general curiosity

[UDP]

I probably should have been more specific by what I was referring to as spirituality, which I separate from religious beliefs that are intertwined with ethics and values

The type of mystical spirituality I'm speaking of is the belief, and deep interest in, mythological followings such as magic, fairies, seances, etc. That is what Doyle partook in.
Not to say it's impossible, but wouldn't a Delta ST find these types of followings too insignificant to preoccupy their time with...? As there is no real social, ethical or practical use for these types of beliefs, outside of general curiosity

Yeah, as entertainment only for me. Movies, etc. Nothing serious though.

... I don't really read fiction. ever. : / Especially magical/fantasy stuff.

[leckysupport]

Anybody can be moral and active in ethical causes, even SLE's. In fact, most people I've met who do a lot of volunteering and organizing for causes are Fe dominants and Fi creatives, as they tend to thrive within the social atmosphere that accompanies being involved with these organizations

I usually find Delta NF's to be the ones who bring new, formally not cared about moral issues to everyone's attention. But due to some new interactions with a possible IEI, I am starting to doubt this hypothesis.

Erratic and Ij doesn't really doesn't go together, since the anxiety of loosing ones stability is very bothersome to Ij's.

I was thinking in terms of intuitive behaviour, that IMO causes people to go off on adventures to far-flung places without much of a care for their person possesions.

Perhaps Doyle is an LIE>LSE...? I know that he was very interested in spirituality and unknown mystical followings, which may point more towards Ni>Si.

I doubt LIE due to the kind of ethic and view of reality which is displayed in the books. As for the spirituality issue, I haven't read much about his take on it. I don't think simply believing in such things is proof of much, I know a lot of Delta NF's who are into the modern version of this and isn't Mcnew (ILE) into metaphysical stuff? Personally I would concentrate on Doyle's personal philosophy on his spirituality.

[Marie84]

I usually find Delta NF's to be the ones who bring new, formally not cared about moral issues to everyone's attention. But due to some new interactions with a possible IEI, I am starting to doubt this hypothesis.

Humanitarianism is generally an NF driven concept in general, whether Beta or Delta, but not exclusive to, IMO

I was thinking in terms of intuitive behaviour, that IMO causes people to go off on adventures to far-flung places without much of a care for their person possesions.

I think this may be another aspect that depends on temperament. The fantastical creative energy of Intuition in Introverted types often only goes as far as the imagination, frequently not needing, or even wanting, actual adventure.

I doubt LIE due to the kind of ethic and view of reality which is displayed in the books. As for the spirituality issue, I haven't read much about his take on it. I don't think simply believing in such things is proof of much, I know a lot of Delta NF's who are into the modern version of this and isn't Mcnew (ILE) into metaphysical stuff? Personally I would concentrate on Doyle's personal philosophy on his spirituality.

Te dominants often do talk a lot about morality and moral character, but are not always consistent with practicing it. Back to JK Rowling, she stated the most important quality to her, in other people, is "moral", and her books contain strong moral messages, which can be attributed to her valuing Fi.

I for one often make Te like remarks, such as (although not "word for word"):

"This ___ is not worth ___, they only priced it higher because it's in such and such mall. I'll go to the warehouse district, there must be a ____ like that at a more practical price".
"___ is lazy, ____ could have done ___ by now if they didn't sit around procrastinating".
"How could you possibly know? You never bothered actually looking at other sources, you just came to a conclusion based on one".


Back to Doyle...

Some info on him I came across which I think points towards LIE

"Perhaps it was good for me that the times were hard, for I was wild, full blooded and a trifle reckless". - very unlikely any Ij

He had sent articles to newspapers about organizing "Military readiness," many years before World War I broke out. In 1913 he wrote to the Fortnightly Review, expressing his views about new untested warfare: "These new factors are the submarine and the airship". He foresaw the possibility of a "Blockade" by enemy submersible ships, long before anyone in the British navy did. The only solution he added would be to build a Channel Tunnel. But this intelligent man's warnings were judged to be "Jules Verne fantasies" by most naval experts.

As soon as the war broke-out, Conan Doyle then fifty-five, offered to enlist again. He was denied his wish once more but set out to organize a civilian battalion of over a hundred volunteers. When the navy lost more than a thousand lives in a single day, his brilliant mind never at rest, Conan Doyle made suggestions to the War Office to provide "inflatable rubber belts," and "inflatable life boats." He also spoke of "body armor" to protect soldiers on the front. - very likely Ni+Te

Most government officials found him irritating at best. One of the exceptions was Winston Churchill, who wrote to thank him for his ideas. - If Churchill was an SLE, this would make sense, appreciating the use for Ni in Doyle's foresight and ideas

Interesting enough, his second wife rather looks like an ESI

[leckysupport]

I think this may be another aspect that depends on temperament. The fantastical creative energy of Intuition in Introverted types often only goes as far as the imagination, frequently not needing, or even wanting, actual adventure.

I'm not entirely sure about this.

Te dominants often do talk a lot about morality and moral character, but are not always consistent with practicing it. Back to JK Rowling, she stated the most important quality to her, in other people, is "moral", and her books contain strong moral messages, which can be attributed to her valuing Fi.

I wasn't really talking about Doyle's morals, rather the type of world view he tries to get across. For example in the stories, aggressive, angry, violent individuals are always viewed in a negative light, no matter the outcome of the story. While innocent (in character rather than whether or not they are criminal), kind, non-aggressive everyday people in an array of social positions and jobs are viewed as being positive.

Compare that to the world of Harry Potter which is a epic good vs. evil battle, where you are either weak or strong and everything is on the line. A view that sounds very similar to Tony Blair's idea of how the world works.

"Perhaps it was good for me that the times were hard, for I was wild, full blooded and a trifle reckless". - very unlikely any Ij

Strictly theoretically speaking, yes; but realistically, no.

He had sent articles to newspapers about organizing "Military readiness," many years before World War I broke out. In 1913 he wrote to the Fortnightly Review, expressing his views about new untested warfare: "These new factors are the submarine and the airship". He foresaw the possibility of a "Blockade" by enemy submersible ships, long before anyone in the British navy did. The only solution he added would be to build a Channel Tunnel. But this intelligent man's warnings were judged to be "Jules Verne fantasies" by most naval experts.

As soon as the war broke-out, Conan Doyle then fifty-five, offered to enlist again. He was denied his wish once more but set out to organize a civilian battalion of over a hundred volunteers. When the navy lost more than a thousand lives in a single day, his brilliant mind never at rest, Conan Doyle made suggestions to the War Office to provide "inflatable rubber belts," and "inflatable life boats." He also spoke of "body armor" to protect soldiers on the front.[/I] - very likely Ni+Te

Also, very likely Ne.

Most government officials found him irritating at best. One of the exceptions was Winston Churchill, who wrote to thank him for his ideas.[/I] - If Churchill was an SLE, this would make sense, appreciating the use for Ni in Doyle's foresight and ideas

Churchill was a politician, so perhaps he was being "polite". Anyway unless he had face to face communication with Doyle over a long period time in some form of personal relationship, I doubt we could say much about their relationship.

Interesting enough, his second wife rather looks like an ESI

She looks rational to me, but then again she could be a lot of things.

[UDP]

Uh, I don't particularly see "very likely" anything (@ very like Ni+Te, or Ne)
I'm particularly cautious about basing anything off of "and his first wife seems ESI" or trying to rationalize his experience with Churchill as indication of Ni.

[Marie84]

I wasn't really talking about Doyle's morals, rather the type of world view he tries to get across. For example in the stories, aggressive, angry, violent individuals are always viewed in a negative light, no matter the outcome of the story. While innocent (in character rather than whether or not they are criminal), kind, non-aggressive everyday people in an array of social positions and jobs are viewed as being positive.

These are general positive qualities for most people, regardless of type/quadra. Se/Ni types are not all bullies looking to stomp on the weak, more often than not, they try to use their skills for "good".
My LSI father, for instance, is definitely not a proponent for violence or hurting people.

Compare that to the world of Harry Potter which is a epic good vs. evil battle, where you are either weak or strong and everything is on the line. A view that sounds very similar to Tony Blair's idea of how the world works.

I'm not particularly sure where you're seeing that in the stories. I thought Rowling did a good job in showing how strength and bravery comes in different forms, not just physical

Strictly theoretically speaking, yes; but realistically, no.

How would qualities like "wild, full blooded and a trifle reckless" compliment an Ej, who suffer from restlessness and, thus, need a calmer, more reliable/stable, companion?

Also, very likely Ne.

Ni types do still use Ne, but they do so for more concrete and directly applicable purposes, i.e. "This is what will likely happen, here's some suggestions on what to do".
His suggestions look particularly Te dominant as well, focusing on practicality and efficiency. Someone with weak Te is going to have a hard time making evaluations on the practical usage of objects and tasks.
Fi types specifically need people, strong in Te, to tell them what needs to be done, and how to do it, to accomplish something

Churchill was a politician, so perhaps he was being "polite". Anyway unless he had face to face communication with Doyle over a long period time in some form of personal relationship, I doubt we could say much about their relationship.

She looks rational to me, but then again she could be a lot of things.

Perhaps, these were not concrete examples on my part

[leckysupport]

These are general positive qualities for most people, regardless of type/quadra. Se/Ni types are not all bullies looking to stomp on the weak, more often than not, they try to use their skills for "good".

I disagree, Se is typically always more aggressive; whether or not the individual is "good" or "bad" is another matter. And my point is that Doyle has a dislike for this type of attitude of aggressiveness.

I'm not particularly sure where you're seeing that in the stories. I thought Rowling did a good job in showing how strength and bravery comes in different forms, not just physical

I know, I'm just mentioning that strengths and weakness employed in a grand fight is a big theme of the stories.

How would qualities like "wild, full blooded and a trifle reckless" compliment an Ej, who suffer from restlessness and, thus, need a calmer, more reliable/stable, companion?

I think it suites any rational type who was reckless when young.

His suggestions look particularly Te dominant as well, focusing on practicality and efficiency.

I think realistic solutions to unexpected possible threats is a very Ne related trait.

[Marie84]

I disagree, Se is typically always more aggressive; whether or not the individual is "good" or "bad" is another matter. And my point is that Doyle has a dislike for this type of attitude of aggressiveness.

Who does like aggression? Do you believe Se types enjoy being angry or hurting people? Se's can be sociopaths, but Se is not sociopathic.
Se PoLR is not just an aversion to dominant behavior, but an inability to assert oneself, a general feeling of weakness and passivity.

That's what I've been trying to explain to you since page one, that Se PoLR makes it difficult for someone to act in the proactive manner you seem to be relating to EII's. And I'm probably being very defensive about it since it feels like you're poking at my weak spots.

I think it suites any rational type who was reckless when young.

Fair enough, but the type of recklessness he was referring to was a spontaneous lifestyle, going from place to place without any stability. I can't imagine an Ij enjoying this type of vagabond lifestyle.

I think realistic solutions to unexpected possible threats is a very Ne related trait.

Perhaps. Alpha Ne's are known inventors who can conceptualize all types of new technology, but than again they're also good at Te.
Delta Ne's have difficulties with knowing what will work, or what has to be done to complete a goal.
Having weak Te, we're better at assessing possibilities in people and relationships, not machinery and other contraptions