Originally Posted by Cyrano
ENFp socks.
ENFp socks.
shoot. I've been thinking and maybe he is an ISTj...
wants to alternate days we go to each other's neighborhoods (I supposedly should have to travel during weekdays). This is after only 2 weeks
he seemed impressed that a girl was the president of a club organization (status focus?)
has a super organized closed
noticed my fan was dusty and said "eww" that dust may fall down from it
seems to like big group happy hours
I noticed he had stacked his coins in little towers
oh no
Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)
Well...at least your socks will match.shoot. I've been thinking and maybe he is an ISTj...
wants to alternate days we go to each other's neighborhoods (I supposedly should have to travel during weekdays). This is after only 2 weeks
he seemed impressed that a girl was the president of a club organization (status focus?)
has a super organized closed
noticed my fan was dusty and said "eww" that dust may fall down from it
seems to like big group happy hours
I noticed he had stacked his coins in little towers
oh no
ISTp
SLI
Enneagram 5 with a side of wings.
The biggest thing that I notice about LSIs that really grates on me is how they constantly want to get emotional reactions out of me (in a really unpleasant way, compared to an SLI's silly teasing), or do their dominating thing.
I'd suggest you stop thinking about Socionics. Clear your mind and let your IEE compatibility radar kick in. I find having too much mental clutter inhibits my ability to think clearly, but that could also be a Six thing.
EDIT
Obviously I'm not talking about people I've been interested in here. Except for this SLI, and that sort of turned sour because I was massively overthinking things and not listening to my "quiet mind", as they call it in Enneagram literature.
MORE EDIT
And I say "sort of", because we're still friends. SLIs kick ass like that
LOL! (whether I like it or not, if he is ISTj)
Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)
yeah I think you're right. I think I may have had him read so many ISTp descriptions that it could have clouded his natural behavior...sighThe biggest thing that I notice about LSIs that really grates on me is how they constantly want to get emotional reactions out of me (in a really unpleasant way, compared to an SLI's silly teasing), or do their dominating thing.
I'd suggest you stop thinking about Socionics. Clear your mind and let your IEE compatibility radar kick in. I find having too much mental clutter inhibits my ability to think clearly, but that could also be a Six thing.
EDIT
Obviously I'm not talking about people I've been interested in here. Except for this SLI, and that sort of turned sour because I was massively overthinking things and not listening to my "quiet mind", as they call it in Enneagram literature.
MORE EDIT
And I say "sort of", because we're still friends. SLIs kick ass like that
I just didn't really see any Se though is the thing...like walking through a club I actually had to kinda push through people.
I should do yoga and stop thinking about functions.
thank you all for your input on my typical all over the place posts
Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)
um, are you suppose to have a few miscommunications/arguments w/ your dual in the beginning?? Is that part of the uh, duality?
hopefully yes?
Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)
It's part of being human, I think. Knowing SLIs, it'll blow over and no mention will be made until several years later when something comes up to remind the SLI.
EDIT
I think part of the duality thing is that both SLIs and IEEs can go into VIKING BERSERKER mode, and then it's mostly ok, because the SLI is forgiving and the IEE is waterproofed against external drama (internal drama not so much).
That's really simplified though, so don't take it as gospel. And don't assume I know a thing about my dual p:
MORE EDIT
Also, I think IEEs are just good at being manipulative and underhanded scumbags resolving "ethical hiccups". From first-hand experience though, you really can't access that if you're panicking.
Last edited by male; 10-16-2009 at 07:25 PM.
come on now,
I thought everybody here in delta was on the same page as far as realizing that duality =/= magical wonderful sunshine-out-the-ass relationships.
I thought everybody, at least the older members, have all had their moments of defiance against the foolish "dual relationships are perfection" notion.
I guess if this is first time jewels met her dual, so, perhaps that's why the surprise.
PS: I personally think yoga is great for relationships. . .
Normal people in happy, healthy relationships have arguements and instances of miscommunication. You wouldn't be human if you didn't. I'm so done bringing socionics into every aspect of my life...including relationships.
Wait, what? Crap!
Can you please expand on this? =)
Sure. Dualfites suck, because they're fights, right? Nobody likes conflict, especially not with someone you're close to. That said, I think it's true that dual pairs are naturally equipped to heal over anything that happens.
Anyway, as for what happened to me, I think I dragged my Kind of a Big Fight on far longer than it should have lasted by running around trying to "fix things" and being a martyr.
EDIT
Because I was panicking
Keep in mind that the general quality of relationship experience and understanding is fairly low, across the board. And I don't just mean this message board. I'm talking all the world over.
How about this board in specific?
mhm
Technically, yes, if you read the descriptions on the textbooks. In practice it means sometimes there is a "run in " period, although plenty other times it goes fine.
I think the textbook descriptions of duality relations can incorporate the run in period to try to cover all possible angles. Some may even try to make duality sound better than it is - sort of like Ryu touched upon with the duality is rainbow sparkes type analogy (or what ever he said).
Personally, I think if there is problems at the start of a relationship, pretty much irrespective of socionics, then it's not a good sign, the start is supposed to be the honey moon period - or at least it's meant to be, ha - - or it is for me.
So it comes down to whether you like him enough or not.
As to him being ISTp or ISTj, it is still possible that he's ISTj.
Socionic inter-type relations only describe the mechanics of a situation, there are so many other factors to take into account like personal attraction, things in common (even hobbies - as well as shared goals).
It's like buying a car, you can check all the specs, read up about it all, but it's still that even though you have the same model of car as another person, it's not that suprising how they still run differently.
In regards to normal relationships involving arguments, I have to say that I dated someone for a few years and we only argued twice, and it was quickly resolved.
To summarise:
Anyway, here's what i've found with duals - they still can fall out and have differences in opinions at times, but what seems to be different than other relationships, when this happens, is typically how they *resolve* these differences.
If it's just one obstacle after another then no, it's highly unlikely this person is in your quadra.
Oh, I could talk a bit about duals, there seems to be a few that I know just now, through work contacts and such, some of them are sort of scary yet fluid for me to talk to, interesting :0
There are some SLIs who will never make it out of the "run-in" phase with me. Duality doesn't always work... Ditch the socionics. Go have fun
IEE
thanks everyone!! Some really good points you guys made.
So I spent more time w/ him and he's totally ISTp!! There were some things that really threw me off, but it's totally clear now.And yeah, resolving things seems to happen though it takes a bit to talk through. Going really well now though!
Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)
I'm happy for you Jewels. Keep an even keel, damn the torpedoes...thanks everyone!! Some really good points you guys made.
So I spent more time w/ him and he's totally ISTp!! There were some things that really threw me off, but it's totally clear now.
ISTp
SLI
Enneagram 5 with a side of wings.
Thanks!
Turns out he is ISTp. He is now making fun of me for ever thinking he was ISTj. Apparently he is the most organized ISTp on the planet.
Going really well still
Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)
they'llbe orgnaized if its something they care about or want to pursue, if there is a practical incentive to being organized or knowledgeable etc. Whatever Si likes.
True.
My desk is usually a wreck, but if I need to do it, I can organize my work in a very logical, efficient way. I think it's the efficiency thing coming into play.
RULE 1: Why make the bed if you are just going to sleep in it again tonight anyway?
RULE 2: When you make up the bed, pull up the sheet, blanket, cover, and pillow on one side, then do the other side. Don't go back and forth on each layer. The final result may not be quite as crisp, but see rule 1.
ISTp
SLI
Enneagram 5 with a side of wings.
Thanks!
Turns out he is ISTp. He is now making fun of me for ever thinking he was ISTj. Apparently he is the most organized ISTp on the planet.
Going really well still
it's interesting how different, yet similar, duality is in real life versus the descriptions (which make ISTps sound so cold and almost scary). They're really not cold irl, even when they are (technically).
I wouldn't say it's "perfect" like the descriptions make it sound, in that there are still conflicts. But it's easy to get on the same page again, with the IEE need to over-analyze somewhat bluntly and the SLI being blunt back (but without any subtext or emotions to piss off the IEE -- ends up neutralizing things that could be blown out of proportion), really works out well.
Also interesting is how there is so much mutual understanding, yet never quite enough to fully understand so there is always a little bit of mystery to keep things from getting boring -- which is really pretty much impossible for all other relations. Just when they've shared their deepest thoughts and you're like "ok I know it all now" they then put up the wall of coldness for a bit and go all introvert and it's back to hmm...and I think IEEs do the same in that we are constantly re-accessing/questioning, etc., so we never totally settle on any one idea.
Still going really well!
Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)
Update. So it's interesting because I think initially, we're having much more little disagreement things that I usually have, but I think it's because I usually date very feeling-ish guys, or thinkers who are extroverts. And I read into everything sooo much. So we've had bunches of little situations where I freak out about some isolated incident and then assume it means X. Then I start bringing it up and get really upset until he says I'm wrong and it's not X. Then case closed and I'm happy again.
Also, it's funny but I got the impression he was actually really talkative. Then the other day I was super quiet (because of some stress) and I realized how quiet he actually is LOL. I asked if he was ok and he said it was just that I usually talk a lot and he makes comments at what I say, or I ask him questions. Then when I felt better, I was glad he is quiet as I do have a LOT to say, lol.
And then at one point, I started overthinking again for a bit, wondering if this can really work, and then we go back and he bought me a stuffed toy and candy!
Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)
All in ISTp land are pulling for you.Update. So it's interesting because I think initially, we're having much more little disagreement things that I usually have, but I think it's because I usually date very feeling-ish guys, or thinkers who are extroverts. And I read into everything sooo much. So we've had bunches of little situations where I freak out about some isolated incident and then assume it means X. Then I start bringing it up and get really upset until he says I'm wrong and it's not X. Then case closed and I'm happy again.
Also, it's funny but I got the impression he was actually really talkative. Then the other day I was super quiet (because of some stress) and I realized how quiet he actually is LOL. I asked if he was ok and he said it was just that I usually talk a lot and he makes comments at what I say, or I ask him questions. Then when I felt better, I was glad he is quiet as I do have a LOT to say, lol.
And then at one point, I started overthinking again for a bit, wondering if this can really work, and then we go back and he bought me a stuffed toy and candy!
ISTp
SLI
Enneagram 5 with a side of wings.
hahaha!! Now that is an ISTp. You should make like a documentary video
nevermind. being emotionally unavailable seems to know no type-bounds.
(and I'm not just meaning the lack of usual ISTp emotional expression. I can deal w/ that). Some ISTps are just mean.
Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)
how about a little detail for your enfp family who are still looking for their treasured counterparts?nevermind. being emotionally unavailable seems to know no type-bounds.
(and I'm not just meaning the lack of usual ISTp emotional expression. I can deal w/ that). Some ISTps are just mean.
<Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" isand not
you're such a nice fellow ENFp. sob. I think he just didn't have the full ability to care. Flirting w/ girls and not caring that it bothered me, wanting me to go to his apmt. instead of going to mine, turning things around so things became "my problem" if I raised an issue. Sad.
Good stuff too of course, which always makes it difficult.
Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)
Yes, that's always confusing. Anyway, I'm sure things will fall into place.Good stuff too of course, which always makes it difficult.
Yeahnevermind. being emotionally unavailable seems to know no type-bounds.
(and I'm not just meaning the lack of usual ISTp emotional expression. I can deal w/ that). Some ISTps are just mean.
And I think male SLIs are disadvantaged somewhat because they've generally gotten away with one or both (thought usually more just emotionally not attached) of those things their whole lives with little consequences. So when a situation comes up, they don't know how to handle it gracefully when they aren't interested , or, even if they are interested, simply have little experience with such.
Alas, the burden of delta NFs in dealing with delta STs remains.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
I've had my fair share that acted that way, too. In the beginning it's great but after some time their true selves come out. Always sucks when they change like that. I won't give you the whole 'good you found that out now' speech because that never helps...but yeah..these sorts of situations are always disappointing.you're such a nice fellow ENFp. sob. I think he just didn't have the full ability to care. Flirting w/ girls and not caring that it bothered me, wanting me to go to his apmt. instead of going to mine, turning things around so things became "my problem" if I raised an issue. Sad.
Good stuff too of course, which always makes it difficult.
I remember having my drawers criticised and I couldn't understand it because I thought my boxer shorts were pretty cool, heh, shows what I know.you're such a nice fellow ENFp. sob. I think he just didn't have the full ability to care. Flirting w/ girls and not caring that it bothered me, wanting me to go to his apmt. instead of going to mine, turning things around so things became "my problem" if I raised an issue. Sad.
Good stuff too of course, which always makes it difficult.
Anyway, the things you mention, I can see some of them and others I don't understand. If you look at the type descriptions for SLI, for instance this one:
The Socionist: SLI
Where it says:
"Ultimately, the SLI is most interested in building a world where he and those close to him can be comfortable and have their needs met.
The SLI easily and naturally provides for his own physiological needs and usually has a need to take care of others as well: pets, close friends and family, houseplants... SLIs typically empathize with those whose physical needs have not been met and usually are quick to respond to genuine signs of helplessness and neediness in others, as long as the person who needs assistance is not hyper or melodramatic. SLIs tend to have a strong maternal (parental) instinct and tend to be attentive parents and leaders with a lenient management style. They are against forcing anyone to do anything and look for ways of motivating people by offering satisfaction of their individual needs and desires."
etc, which to me suggests that they are attentive to things like you having health scare like hospital appointment, and won't give you a hard time about the state of your drawers - yes the one's in like chest of drawers, (and now drawing to the chest word makes the topic of underwear seem to spring up again)
So anyway, they are attentive to stuff like that, but I can see how it can be confusing - in some ways they are very caring and in other ways they can seem really cold and distant, emotionless - uncaring like you mention. I think that the uncaring in other ways that you mention/hint upon are typcially the sort of thing that SLI's grow out of, they usually don't do it intentionally - of course some may do, which is pretty horrible from my POV.
Eh, another thing, if i've found myself in the past when I was younger realising I am or could be horrible to a partner, i've ended it rather than do that, which maybe makes or rather adds to the whole SLI break up confusion thing.
Eh, good luck having us as your duals
Aw, I'm sorry to hear that, Jewels. I'm sure you learned a lot, and of course you'll be okay... but in the meantime that really sucks
Sorry Jewels.
I think it takes a really long time (as in years) for an SLI to actually be invested in a person. The only ones I know who are in marital relationships started b/c the two people worked together or were school-mates or friends. Then the relationship starts off neutral and respectfully, with some emotional distance to be able to handle the times when you need to tell them to fuck off and stop being a critical ass. Otherwise they expect you to be everything that they are (neat, organized, logical) AND everything that you are (quirky, playful, spontaneous). Kinda hypocritical, considering that they're constantly bitching about other people's suffocating expectations. It takes a long time to accept and care about someone for EVERYTHING that they are, not just the good stuff...and also really care about how their actions impact you.
IEE
you're such a nice fellow ENFp. sob. I think he just didn't have the full ability to care. Flirting w/ girls and not caring that it bothered me, wanting me to go to his apmt. instead of going to mine, turning things around so things became "my problem" if I raised an issue. Sad.
Good stuff too of course, which always makes it difficult.
ISTps are socially inept, self-involved, and hyper-critical! ...doh!
ISTp
SLI
Enneagram 5 with a side of wings.
thanks everyone, some great points you've all made.
It's just that, I have a female SLI friend, and though she can appear "cold" she gets super warm if you say anything like "health scare" or whatever and she will say something supportive.
Also, I had a couple of things I was excited about career wise and I got no reaction at all, not even a smile or anything. Kinda rained on my parade. I think kinda passive aggressive. And kind of entitled like I should be thrilled to cater completely to him in everything, and if we do what I want he mopes and pouts. But says he's fine, when he's clearly not.
I think he's pissed that I'm not one of those submissive girls that wait on him and let him do whatever he wants while thanking him for it. no thank you.
And when I asked him to not let girls hit on him in front of me, he said he couldn't do anything about it, since they're his "friends" and didn't want to be rude. yeah right. They can have him soon enough...
So I'm just sitting back now as I don't want to actually do the breaking up, but I have a feeling he'll prob end it sooner rather than later as they are so in the moment like that.
I think it could totally be a life experience/maturity thing. Sometimes people who have it easy don't appreciate relationships as much I think. sigh.
Still, duality is where it's at, just need the right one though.
Last edited by jewels; 11-22-2009 at 05:05 AM.
Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)
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