Banana Pancakes is ESI

[Socionics Is A Cult]

How is putting someone on ignore Fi? Hkkmr has put me on ignore at least once (or so he said), and Epheremos, you have said only today that you were not going to read any of my posts concerning you for at least one week!

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Socionics Is A Cult]

Don't be such an idiot:
- First: that is evidence, putting someone on ignore is not directly Fi, and this stupid idea is yours, not mine.
- Second: the reason he put me on ignore. Check the reasons, you #@%$! And then check mine. I explain everything you want to know about it, I had logical reasons.

After all of my related posts (including the one posted several minutes ago) I showed you the objective causes that made up my mind to cease answering you.

Nevertheless, I am forced to answer you now because our lazy readers will probably ignore this "small" detail after reading your false affirmation.

He doesn't say he ignored you for the reasons you mentioned. The first time, it's because he thinks you're crazy, the second time it's because he thinks you're a thread wrecker. In my case with hkkmr, he wanted to ignore me because he didn't like his notions being scrutinised (or wasn't able to put up a suitable defence).

It's interesting that after the second instance where he says he's putting you on ignore, you say that the real reason for him doing so is because he doesn't want to have to explain himself. I got a similar impression from hkkmr.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[mu4]

It's interesting that after the second instance where he says he's putting you on ignore, you say that the real reason for him doing so is because he doesn't want to have to explain himself. I got a similar impression from hkkmr.

I ignored you because you were trolling me specifically for what I believe were personal anti-pathy in a effort to discredit me.

As you are trolling Ephemeros now in a similar effort to discredit him.

I don't mind trolling or conflict, but your actions are annoying to me because often it is to create antipathy in others towards another.

[FDG]

Basta un giorno così, a cacciarmi via tutti gli sbattimenti che
ogni giorno sembran sempre di più
ogni giorno fan paura di più
ogni giorno però non adesso adesso adesso che c'è un giorno così

[Socionics Is A Cult]

I ignored you because you were trolling me specifically for what I believe were personal anti-pathy in a effort to discredit me.

I assure you I wasn't doing that - I simpled stated my reasoning for why the Reinin dichotomies as a whole are bunk. I didn't realise you were personally involved with the Reinin dichotomies, and you didn't have to ignore me to tell me that you didn't like me disagreeing with you.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

BP, I have some ideas, but i'm uncertain whether to commit to the thread some of my thoughts.

I could maybe ask you this just now, (or rather, should say ... I will ):

In reference to the following thread http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...eal-world.html


Which was about this quote:

Someone with as their leading function is very dependent on his/her feelings of interest and disinterest. Interest and boredom seem to be the driving forces in such a person's life — more so than for any other types. Other types also find things 'interesting' and 'boring,' however, they are able to derive satisfaction and enjoyment from things that aren't necessarily interesting and novel, as opposed to types. Just as types can't make themselves do things that cause internal discomfort or are physically unpleasant, types can't make themselves do things that do not engage them mentally (do not give them anything interesting to think about)."

Where you said:

That description of Ne is perfect, one of my favorites.

Could you explain to my why you think that description of Ne is perfect and one of your favourites?

Oh: are you seriously wanting to examine your type or are you just "forum-pissed"?

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Banana Pancakes]

BP, I have some ideas, but i'm uncertain whether to commit to the thread some of my thoughts.

Please contribute, I'd like as many voices in here as possible.

Oh: are you seriously wanting to examine your type or are you just "forum-pissed"?

A little of both. I think pinocchio's claim of ESI is nonsensical but I'm willing to flesh it out in hopes that he will stop bothering me. I can see myself as another NT type, however, and I do have doubts about my type. This is mainly frustration at my inability to find a suitable SEI dual, however, and desire to have an aggressive dual (SEE...) who will do all the work in a relationship so I don't have to (I'm a bit of a pussy when it comes to approaching women).

I could maybe ask you this just now, (or rather, should say ... I will ):

In reference to the following thread http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...eal-world.html

Could you explain to my why you think that description of Ne is perfect and one of your favourites?

I'd love to. Rick's description here is beautiful and perfect, and was one of the influences (NOT the primary influence, maybe 3-4%) on my solidifying as NeTi. I'll quote the whole thing here and just delve into it.

Someone with Ne as their leading function is very dependent on his/her feelings of interest and disinterest. Interest and boredom seem to be the driving forces in such a person's life — more so than for any other types. Other types also find things 'interesting' and 'boring,' however, they are able to derive satisfaction and enjoyment from things that aren't necessarily interesting and novel, as opposed to types. Just as Si types can't make themselves do things that cause internal discomfort or are physically unpleasant, Ne types can't make themselves do things that do not engage them mentally (do not give them anything interesting to think about).

I love this. The way I've spent my entire life consists of frantic search for something interesting, eager exploitation of it, loss of interest, and a new search for something of interest. At points this has made me a bit of a hedonist, watching movies all day and eating whatever I can find that tastes good. When I run out of things to do however, you'll find me bored and frustrated, especially when people tell me to "get a hobby" or "go read a book". If I knew of any interesting hobbies or had any interesting books I'd be doing that, thanks.

Granted Ne isn't the only type that can be bored, but it's prevalence is the key here, and it applies completely to me.

What makes something interesting? A new situation, a new set of people, a new way of looking at old things, or novel or unusual information. There has to be some special quality in the information, situation, or people that creates an open-ended, high-potential situation that engages and energizes the mind. types would rather choose an unknown situation that might have high potential than a known situation that is known to have low or medium potential. Many types have an irrational dread of boring situations and tasks, which usually end up not being as bad as they originally feared

The only issue I have with this (I know it applies to IEEs too so it makes sense) is that I'm not a crazy "new people" person. This is due to a bit of nurture growing up (homeschooled 10 of 13 grades with limited socializing), and is something that is changing for me.

One of my friends made this grade shirt that says "what's going on over there?" because she said that's all I ever say when I'm around her
I know, pinocchio, bringing up friends is Fi, right?

The last part is good, I HATE repetitive tasks, which introverts seem to enjoy so much. I definitely have experienced the irrational dread, and have worked hard to be able to force myself to get them done even with my rampant distaste for them.

Always looking for novel information and high-potential situations is like skimming the cream off of everything; one rarely stays around long enough to reap the material rewards. types are more interested in increasing or developing potential than in materializing it. For example, one might become fluent in a foreign language but never seriously consider making it a career. Or one might become on expert on some field, but prefer to discuss it with friends and write about it as a hobbyist rather than entering the field and making it a career. This is especially typical of IEEs, who tend to avoid making binding professional decisions (sensitive + that wants to be free of external limitations). ILEs feel more comfortable being part of institutions and organizations that obligate them in some way, because they understand that these obligations are mere formalities that aren't too hard to perform. IEEs blow the importance of formalities out of proportion, as if having to get a few signatures or recommendations is simply "too restrictive" to allow them to work.

Let's see, not sticking around to reap the benefits, I've done that a lot. With one of the jobs I've quit after a few months, for instance, one employer was shocked because he had all these big plans for me within the company.

Increasing or developing potential rather than materializing it. This is interesting, one example is when I'm with friends and will go "let's do something!" while they seem content to sit on the couch watching a movie and will tell me "we're already doing something". I suck at enjoying the present activity (Si needed) and want to go do something different.

I have quite a few areas I'm an "expert" in but haven't pursued any benefit from. I'm actually changing careers right now to tech support, something I've always done well on the side at previous jobs but for some reason ignored as a career path until recently.

Dominant implies a philosophical attitude towards physical territory (). If someone or something forces such a person out of a certain territory (a job, a room, a business, etc.), he or she quickly switches to thinking of alternatives ("that's fine, I was thinking of leaving anyway"). If one has items stolen, one quickly forgets about them and finds one didn't need them much anyway. It's hard to attach a type to material possessions. But if someone attacks their "potential" (talents, opportunities, and any other "unrealized potential") or their intellectual territory (their ideas and vision), that's quite another story. Here types can and will put up a fight and will wear out nearly any opponent. Just as types are able to constantly keep track of opponents' level of will, energy, and power and attack them when they are weak, types are able to constantly keep track of opponents' mental state and thought organization and attack them mentally when their thought processes are disorganized (this applies to confrontational situations).

Definitely had that switching to alternatives experience in jobs before. Material possessions are something I pride myself on having as few of and being as unconnected with as possible. Yes, I'll fight you if you criticize my ideas, even if I didn't plan to follow through with them. The tracking mental state and attacking disorganized thought processes is interesting, as I've been doing just that with epheremos recently.

implies the ability to model other people's thought structures and understand how other people's worldviews fit together. This understanding allows one to explain new information or ideas to them in a way that they can understand, based on their existing level of understanding. types enjoy helping people with hidden potential develop it into conscious and recognized strengths. They like to help others experience insight — or a holistic intuitive understanding of concepts.

What is characteristic of the thinking of Ne types is the ability to make connections between things that might not seem related at first glance. They like to keep a certain mental distance from their objects of study so that they can always keep the "big picture" in mind, i.e. see how the subject connects to other things they know about. This synthetic thinking presumably has a neurological explanation.

I do this quite a bit. When I first meet someone I try to sum up their views on life and where they're coming from. In the past I've been too silent of my opinions on such things until I know where they stand, specifically because I grew up in an environment with very radical views on things that others see (and to an extent I see) as a bit extreme. Not sure about helping people with hidden potential, I suppose I do a bit of prodding "you can do this" with things such as technology or business when teaching others.

Second paragraph is a great classical intuitive description, and I identify with it completely.

types enjoy meeting people who have unusual life experience or novel thinking patterns and probing them for insights and inside information. They have a mental "catalog" of their friends' and acquaintances interests and easily match up people who share common interests and would enjoy learning from each other. They enjoy talking about and sharing their understanding of things and like to have their principles and understanding of things — along with those of their partners' — brought out in the open when doing business. This approach is most distasteful to ESIs and LSIs (with Ne as their vulnerable function), who try to avoid talking about their underlying motives, interests, and long-term goals while doing business.

Again the people thing is a challenge because of how I was raised. I definitely prefer unusual people to the "get married, get 9-5 job, have kids, get fat, die, repeat" crowd. I can't say I match people up nearly as much as my IEE brother does.

types experience large fluctuations in their energy state, from great enthusiasm and dynamism to complete physical inertia. In the latter state they can spend the entire day inside, ignoring the things they are supposed to do, even if there are no groceries in the house and they are starving. They tend to routinely recognize physical sensations too late (hunger, illness, physical discomfort, pain, etc.) — unless there are types around who constantly keep track of these things. types might think they need to take a trip or begin a completely new activity or make a lifestyle change to overcome a persistent feeling of psychological discomfort, when in reality, getting a good meal and a good night's sleep would likely suffice.

Ah yes, energy levels! This is one thing that convinced me I couldn't be a rational type. To call me a consistent, hardworking IJ is absurd if you understood my energy. I go from excessive, bouncing off the walls moments to complete exhaustion several times a day, with little idea how to regulate, maintain, or change my energy levels. My energy is a sine wave with sharp peaks and valleys.

Physical sensations is dead on. I forget to eat, forget I'm in pain, don't realize my leg has been hurting for 30 minutes because of the way I'm sitting. Love me some Si keeping track of hunger levels, and reminding me to sleep and not stay up until 2am arguing about socionics.

Dominant at the group level is related to open-ended discussion of topics where the creative thinking powers of participants are most engaged. When is at the forefront, the group is in a state of "mental unison," experiencing and discussing their mental images of a subject and trying together to find the best angle to look at it. This state can also be induced by sharing "interesting facts" — information that is intriguing in and of itself and not is not necessarily immediately applicable to anything. In a state, the collective focus is on the content and potential of thoughts and ideas — not on the manner they are presented in, their correctness according to established systems, or the status and authority of who is expressing the idea.

I haven't experienced Ne at a group level that much, except maybe when chatting with my Ne brother, where we bounce around topics endlessly.

Reading this description made me feel again very confident in my Ne ego. 95% is spot on for me. If you can somehow convince me Rick confused Ne with Fi, then by all means, I'm an Fi lead. I don't see how anyone could read this and agree if they were FiSe.

[mu4]

I assure you I wasn't doing that - I simpled stated my reasoning for why the Reinin dichotomies as a whole are bunk. I didn't realise you were personally involved with the Reinin dichotomies, and you didn't have to ignore me to tell me that you didn't like me disagreeing with you.

Bullshit.

I didn't ignore you on the forums until you trolled me after this event. I only ignored you via chatbox.

As far as the reinin dichotomies. I was talking about:

These which I have no issue with talking about.
Static/Dynamic
Merry/Serious, Judicious/Decisive These are about quadra.
Process/Result These are about the direction of information within a psyche.

These which I talk about with some reservations.
Taciturn/Narrator These are about interaction style.
Positivist/Negativist These are about perceptual focus.


So if you bring up that whole. As a whole Reinin dichotomies is bunk assertion. I did give you my explanation of why I thought they are relevant. You simply chose to ignore my explanation because I think you needed some other form of information then what I gave you. I think that you simply don't understand and have no wish to explore anything then your existing knowledge. For that, I told you fuck off from discussions with me. You persisted to troll me in another thread and because of this I ignored you. You bringing up my name here again in a totally different thread to make a accusation against Ephemeros and of course to make a sideways accusation against me.

You're intellectually dishonest and this sort of passive aggressive trolling is just degenerate.

Now go the fuck away and don't mention me again.

As a whole the accusation that Ephemeros gives no explanation for his beliefs is total bullshit, because he tries very hard to give explanations but often perhaps inaccurate ones. Your accusations are simply because you're ignoring his explanation or don't think they're valid, but in no way is he not giving explanations. What you're accusing of him is a lie(that he doesn't want to give a explanation) and this is the sort of intellectual dishonesty that I abhor.

In my case with hkkmr, he wanted to ignore me because he didn't like his notions being scrutinised (or wasn't able to put up a suitable defence).

More passive aggressive intellectual dishonesty. My defense of the reinin dichotomies I've mentioned is easily understood by many others, it is only there are people who still cling on to Rick's article on Reinin, when even in that article he brings up some of those dichotomies which I think are easily investigated.

His assertion is however wrong, that some of the reinin dichotomies being hard to investigate invalidates all of them as a whole.

[Socionics Is A Cult]

Don't be such an idiot [...] Check the reasons, you #@%$! [...]

And please don't be so unnecessarily assertive.

[Banana Pancakes]

Don't be such an idiot:
- First: that is evidence, putting someone on ignore is not directly Fi, and this stupid idea is yours, not mine.
- Second: the reason he put me on ignore. Check the reasons, you #@%$! And then check mine. I explain everything you want to know about it, I had logical reasons.

1. So that argument can be ignored, good.
2. I've clarified my reason above, you seem to think only Fi can be annoyed by someone, which is odd. The FiSes seem quite content to voice their annoyance when it occurs, while my route is much more passive aggressive.

He doesn't say he ignored you for the reasons you mentioned. The first time, it's because he thinks you're crazy, the second time it's because he thinks you're a thread wrecker. In my case with hkkmr, he wanted to ignore me because he didn't like his notions being scrutinised (or wasn't able to put up a suitable defence).

It's interesting that after the second instance where he says he's putting you on ignore, you say that the real reason for him doing so is because he doesn't want to have to explain himself. I got a similar impression from hkkmr.

CORRECT. At least someone can understand my words. I think I was defending myself quite well the second time, and had poked several holes in pinocchio's weak logic before my desire not to look like a jackass got the better of me. The arguments were just logical dick comparisons at that point.

I don't intend to force anyone into this, but remember that I accused all who acknowledge the issue but accept his current typing of incompetence in case he's a type. This is not something which needs someone to necessarily bring evidence to figure out.

Could you please just TRY to control your disdain for everyone who doesn't think and behave exactly like you within this thread?