Duals dislike eachother more often than expected

[Jarno]

Today I saw it again.

This situation actually happened twice with the same types.

A shy INFj walked away from the group, without saying that she was going home.
The ESTj said afterwards, that it was totally unsocial of her, and kept talking about it for a while.

It's only when duals interact with eachother that they start a likening in eachother. Otherwise it's often that they don't like eachother. I remember an SEE at my work who hated 'nerds' (that hurt me! :-)

A SLE friend of mine truly hates 'those fucking idealists' (I guess IEI's can be seen like that)

So duals always dislike eachother, except when in close interaction together.

[pluie]

shit.
*sigh*:/

/

lol.

[leckysupport]

Yeah, I've heard ESEs say they hate nerds too. But then they always have a contradictory nerdy best friend... thus confirming my world view.

[Jarno]

Yeah, I've heard ESEs say they hate nerds too. But then they always have a contradictory nerdy best friend... thus confirming my world view.

yep, I know such an ESE too.

Strange they say they hate nerds, but yet they are clearly friends with them... But again, only because she had close interaction with him. Otherwise...he would be just a nerd to her.

[Lobo]

So duals always dislike eachother, except when in close interaction together.

Don't you think this is overgeneralizing a bit?

I can see though how some misunderstandings can occur when not in close interaction.

[stevENTj]

The one SEE girl I've known despised me, but she really had a secret crush on me.

[Creepy-male]

By this reasoning, I would be IEI. I would be even more IEI when interacting with SLEs, too.

[Krig the Viking]

It's only when duals interact with eachother that they start a likening in eachother. Otherwise it's often that they don't like eachother.

This is the entire premise of Pride & Prejudice, as well as many other romance stories.

[Marie84]

This is the entire premise of Pride & Prejudice, as well as many other romance stories.

P&P is an excellent example of how duality unfolds

[UDP]

So duals always dislike eachother, except when in close interaction together.

And even with the title of the thread "duals dislike each other more than expected" - depends on what you're expecations are. It sounds like you're actually figuring things out for yourself, rather than proclaiming some unknown truth to the rest of the ignorant world.

[Jarno]

And even with the title of the thread "duals dislike each other more than expected" - depends on what you're expecations are. It sounds like you're actually figuring things out for yourself, rather than proclaiming some unknown truth to the rest of the ignorant world.

I'm just trying to create a response.

[UDP]

I'm just trying to create a response.

Roy's got a response for you:

[Joy]

Roy's got a response for you:

Roy Responds

Wow. Dubs sucks.

Except, of course, for the ninja info cards scene.

[DirectorAbbie]

Maybe when they say they hate nerds, what they really mean is that they'd hate to be a nerd.

[chip]

Maybe when they say they hate nerds, what they really mean is that they'd hate to be a nerd.

impressive! so true!

as for the topic at hand, your right in so far as ESTJ can be critical of INFJ but then again that is ESTJ for ya, and if you know a INFJ personally, they don't care, in a strange way, they may even like that someone notices them leaving. At the same time most people usually shake hands or wave.

I'm not sure which website posted this except that it was a russian socionics site, I found it on another forum about activity partners being more loyal. They listed duality descriptions by different socionic authors and in one, it contained an interesting point that extroverted ethicals and introverted logics have a hard time pairing up. In fact they mentioned many extroverted ethicals can not wait and marry sooner than any other type, often marrying another extroverted ethical. By extroverted ethical they meant ESE, EIE, IEE, SEE and their corresponding duals as introverted logicals.

As for the eternal struggle between nerds and jocks, or mind and body, ESE will likely revert to their role function Te in interpreting LII behaviour Ti. I will never forget one ESE totally turning me down because I was not her type. Even currently I work with a female ESE who is married to a large bruit. She keeps attacking my masculinity because I'm skinny and not high on testostrone. There is another ESE girl who was semi-interested in me but once I tried text messaging her, she never texted back, and the next time I talked to her she hinted that I'm werid. She is now dating a ESE who fits the stereotypical masucline ideal as seen on tv. He is a man-whore but then again so is she. These ESE in particular are superficial. That's my testimony.

in so far as going along with the general theory yes duals need close intimate interaction in order to really understand the others point of view. Why did the INFJ walk away, the ESTJ has no idea.

[betterthandead]

Most likely subtype differences. I dislike my own subtype (Ti) as well as my dual's subtype which doesn't correlate to mine. (Let's say Si), I view Si's as rather self indulgent in their own sensory perceptions rather than being communicative and thoughtful like an (Fe) would.

Today I saw it again.

This situation actually happened twice with the same types.

A shy INFj walked away from the group, without saying that she was going home.
The ESTj said afterwards, that it was totally unsocial of her, and kept talking about it for a while.

It's only when duals interact with eachother that they start a likening in eachother. Otherwise it's often that they don't like eachother. I remember an SEE at my work who hated 'nerds' (that hurt me! :-)

A SLE friend of mine truly hates 'those fucking idealists' (I guess IEI's can be seen like that)

So duals always dislike eachother, except when in close interaction together.

[crazedrat]

I think they're actually trying to describe their conflictor and their words are quasi relating to their dual.

[Jarno]

I think they're actually trying to describe their conflictor and their words are quasi relating to their dual.

yes that might also be possible.

[Beautiful sky]

Today I saw it again.

This situation actually happened twice with the same types.

A shy INFj walked away from the group, without saying that she was going home.
The ESTj said afterwards, that it was totally unsocial of her, and kept talking about it for a while.

It's only when duals interact with eachother that they start a likening in eachother. Otherwise it's often that they don't like eachother. I remember an SEE at my work who hated 'nerds' (that hurt me! :-)

A SLE friend of mine truly hates 'those fucking idealists' (I guess IEI's can be seen like that)

So duals always dislike eachother, except when in close interaction together.

I do this all the time.

I'm just shy.

[chip]

I've had two duals tell me to my face that they don't like me and another over the phone. Its not that uncommon.

[Jarno]

I've had two duals tell me to my face that they don't like me and another over the phone. Its not that uncommon.

yes, the personalities are opposites.

Well you've met some ESE BITCHES!

[Krig the Viking]

I've had two duals tell me to my face that they don't like me and another over the phone. Its not that uncommon.

Based on this and your previous posts, I have a strong suspicion that you're typing either yourself or your hypothetical duals wrong. Your descriptions of your experiences of duality just don't sound at all like the duality relationships I've observed in real life.

Tell me, have you ever had a positive experience with duality?

The worst I've ever heard someone say about a dual is that they're uninteresting, and that's only when an extravert is talking about an introvert that he doesn't know very well. The early stages, before partners really get to know one another, can be quite difficult. Subtypes have an effect on relationships, as do things like mental instability or emotional issues, but even the worst of dual relationships that I've seen still have a certain base level of mutual sympathy.

[UDP]

nobody likes eiis.



That's not true. I'd really like to say that I've had negative dual experiences, but it seems that all the delta NFs here fancy me a great deal.

[chip]

I've have incredible experiences within duality but honestly when you read of the analyst making massive mistakes with ethical decisions, they're not kidding around. That has been and likely will continue to be my failure. I've screwed up a many a time.

When the OP says duals dislike each other there is some breathing room to interpret that. I mean does you or your dislike each other so much that they purposefully avoid contacting one another?
I've been offended by people who happen to be my duals and well ya unless they correct themselves and say hey ya sorry I offended you then they are a unlikable person.

[chip]

simple example: I have a hard time remembering people's names. ESE take offense to that.

[Krig the Viking]

simple example: I have a hard time remembering people's names. ESE take offense to that.

Every ESE I've ever met laughs and says "I do that too" when I forget names. Typically it would be Fi types, and in particular Gamma SFs, who would take offense at that kind of thing. ESEs have Ignoring Fi, so Fi blunders like forgetting names aren't something they care much about.

What are some other examples of things you've done that cause the people you've typed as ESE to be offended/dislike you?

[Skeptic]

Your dual may or may not like you, and you may or may not like them, and you may type them a different type because you don't like them/they don't like you if you put stock in intertype relations.

Actually we should probably type like that, that way we actually will be attracted to our 'duals' when the time comes. And not to worry, if either one of us cease to like the other, we can just change their typings (or ours ofc if it suits our purposes)! Using this foolproof plan, you're bound to be inexplicably attracted to your dual and vice versa at all times.

[Creepy-]

Your dual may or may not like you, and you may or may not like them, and you may type them a different type because you don't like them/they don't like you if you put stock in intertype relations.

Actually we should probably type like that, that way we actually will be attracted to our 'duals' when the time comes. And not to worry, if either one of us cease to like the other, we can just change their typings (or ours ofc if it suits our purposes)! Using this foolproof plan, you're bound to be inexplicably attracted to your dual and vice versa at all times.

lol

[The Ineffable]

Your dual may or may not like you, and you may or may not like them, and you may type them a different type because you don't like them/they don't like you if you put stock in intertype relations.

Actually we should probably type like that, that way we actually will be attracted to our 'duals' when the time comes. And not to worry, if either one of us cease to like the other, we can just change their typings (or ours ofc if it suits our purposes)! Using this foolproof plan, you're bound to be inexplicably attracted to your dual and vice versa at all times.

LMAO! +1
(ownz the thread, if not the whole section)

[Beautiful sky]

Every ESE I've ever met laughs and says "I do that too" when I forget names. Typically it would be Fi types, and in particular Gamma SFs, who would take offense at that kind of thing. ESEs have Ignoring Fi, so Fi blunders like forgetting names aren't something they care much about.

What are some other examples of things you've done that cause the people you've typed as ESE to be offended/dislike you?

I have no clue what you're talking about. ESE are into data and they remember people's names/number/address/SS number so well...

[EyeSeeCold]

Every ESE I've ever met laughs and says "I do that too" when I forget names. Typically it would be Fi types, and in particular Gamma SFs, who would take offense at that kind of thing. ESEs have Ignoring Fi, so Fi blunders like forgetting names aren't something they care much about.

What are some other examples of things you've done that cause the people you've typed as ESE to be offended/dislike you?

bullshit

Names aren't important when you know the person closely. It's the experiences that matter. Remembering names is +Fi/-Fe.

[mu4]

I don't think I've been very on edge etc with a dual. I've had disagreements for sure, but I think my biggest problem is I don't really notice them.

I'm sure I've met many SEI's before in my life but I also think it's unlikely I've payed more then 5 seconds of attention to them. I haven't had a close relationship with a dual so I not sure how the average person will be like.

[Creepy-Snaps]

Lots of stereotypes like "nerd", "idealist", "bitch" being thrown around in this thread...

Best response was that duals start liking each other when they spend time together. When you're open-minded enough to not judge someone by all the external stuff, but actually talk with them.

Duals don't dislike each other. People dislike each other.

[Suz]

Every ESE I've ever met laughs and says "I do that too" when I forget names. Typically it would be Fi types, and in particular Gamma SFs, who would take offense at that kind of thing. ESEs have Ignoring Fi, so Fi blunders like forgetting names aren't something they care much about.

What are some other examples of things you've done that cause the people you've typed as ESE to be offended/dislike you?

I have no clue what you're talking about. ESE are into data and they remember people's names/number/address/SS number so well...

bullshit

Names aren't important when you know the person closely. It's the experiences that matter. Remembering names is +Fi/-Fe.

Yeah Krig, I'm going to have to agree with EyeSeeCold and Maritsa on this one.

However, I could totally see an ESE saying that just to keep the mood positive, even if it's not true.

[Krig the Viking]

Yeah Krig, I'm going to have to agree with EyeSeeCold and Maritsa on this one.

However, I could totally see an ESE saying that just to keep the mood positive, even if it's not true.

That's what I'm saying, an ESE might be inwardly somewhat disappointed or even hurt that you forgot her name, but since ESE's Base function is -Fe, they're not likely to make a big deal out of it and wreck the mood. Their Ignoring Fi is not important enough to them to overrule their Base Fe.

As for ESEs forgetting names, the ESEs I know are so outgoing and popular that they're constantly meeting far too many new people to ever remember all of their names, despite being Sensors inclined to pick up on details like that. It's possible that not all ESEs are like that, though.

[chip]

You can theorize what I'm saying to you but honestly that is a legitimate example. I have trouble remembering people's names long after the first meeting - they know my name but I don't know theirs - they take offense.

I can remember talking to this girl and asking her flat out: "look everyone says you sleep around", ignorant of me to say but at the same time even though she was a bit shocked and offended she told me that she only has sex in a relationship which implies she faithful and respectable (and she's hot). In an odd way she actually turned out to be better than what the rumours had made her out to be.

I had gotten into a fight with my girlfriend and I left the bar but later she was seen leaving the bar with the bar owner. To the male psyche that means they went home together and my friends told me this and I was completely devestated. Then we realised that they were assuming so we don't know for sure (and likely never will). To be honest it would put my mind at ease to learn the truth, the truth is so much better than soft comforting words that can only last so long and its a million times better than listening to silence.
I asked one of the bartenders if the bar owner had taken my girlfriend home. She said no but I'm not so certain. Before I heard the terrible news she had been very apologetic for no reason - maybe an admittance of guilt - that would explain why she was apologetic for nothing. However once she found out that I asked the bartender about her and the bar owner she was pissed. The next time I talked to her she told me she didn't like me, blah blah. I told her she is unfaithful to me. I saw her and another guy 'eye-fucking' - which was the origination of fight. Though unknown to her but again a friend told me she slept around with that guy before we started dating, upsetting to hear that shit about your girlfriend. I think its a bit ironic that the guy who was said to have slept with her was the same guy she was 'eye-fucking' - she was trying to defend herself that she is not that kind of girl and then she 'eye-fucks' the guy who is nortorious for sleeping with easy women. what a story.

Basically she is showing all the signs of a cheater - dresses in a way that attracts male attention but at the same time holds out on sex with me. Then again speculation as looks can be deceiving and you can never believe everything you hear.

[Krig the Viking]

You can theorize what I'm saying to you but honestly that is a legitimate example. I have trouble remembering people's names long after the first meeting - they know my name but I don't know theirs - they take offense.

I can remember talking to this girl and asking her flat out: "look everyone says you sleep around", ignorant of me to say but at the same time even though she was a bit shocked and offended she told me that she only has sex in a relationship which implies she faithful and respectable (and she's hot). In an odd way she actually turned out to be better than what the rumours had made her out to be.

I had gotten into a fight with my girlfriend and I left the bar but later she was seen leaving the bar with the bar owner. To the male psyche that means they went home together and my friends told me this and I was completely devestated. Then we realised that they were assuming so we don't know for sure (and likely never will). To be honest it would put my mind at ease to learn the truth, the truth is so much better than soft comforting words that can only last so long and its a million times better than listening to silence.
I asked one of the bartenders if the bar owner had taken my girlfriend home. She said no but I'm not so certain. Before I heard the terrible news she had been very apologetic for no reason - maybe an admittance of guilt - that would explain why she was apologetic for nothing. However once she found out that I asked the bartender about her and the bar owner she was pissed. The next time I talked to her she told me she didn't like me, blah blah. I told her she is unfaithful to me. I saw her and another guy 'eye-fucking' - which was the origination of fight. Though unknown to her but again a friend told me she slept around with that guy before we started dating, upsetting to hear that shit about your girlfriend. I think its a bit ironic that the guy who was said to have slept with her was the same guy she was 'eye-fucking' - she was trying to defend herself that she is not that kind of girl and then she 'eye-fucks' the guy who is nortorious for sleeping with easy women. what a story.

Basically she is showing all the signs of a cheater - dresses in a way that attracts male attention but at the same time holds out on sex with me. Then again speculation as looks can be deceiving and you can never believe everything you hear.

This all sounds a lot like Fi-PoLR, not Fi Role. Fi-Role can be just as paranoid about relationships, but tends to be a lot more careful about and better at adhering to basic social standards of behaviour than what you describe. Have you ever considered ILE as a type?

bullshit

Which part and how so?

[chip]

Honestly ESE take offense. I can remember I kept forgetting this guy I'll call Thumper, okay, people were knocking me because I decided to stop drinking for one month. When I get to the bar everyone is in an uproar calling me gay and a fag and whatnot. I took it. Anyways he started in on the action until I was like your just offended that I forgot your name and he admitted that was why. I had met the guy on numerous occassions and kept having to ask what his name was. He simmered down and is on good terms with me now, so ya, your partially right, in the sense of his base function is fundamentally programed to be positive instead of being negative. Note: He did not invite me to his baby's first birthday party like he did everyone else.
I mean I can remember a co-worker saying flat out its disrespectful and rude to forget someone's name - A ESE co-worker. This is not nothing I conjured up in my head. I have seen the look on people's faces when they realize I forget their names.
The other night I was talking to a ESE girl who I will call bambi, I had to ask for her name again and she was yelling in the bar, "I've told you my name like ten times already", she refused to tell me an elenth time until I asked someone else. Needless to say when i asked for her number she turned me down. Note: when a friend who happens to be a ENTP arrived she perked right up, that whole activity aspect (he has a girlfriend and was only being friendly) and the jealously between duals took effect.
and another thing I guess I'm a highly extroverted introvert likely due to my current lifestyle. i'm a english teacher and have to be, repreat, have to be outgoing and talkative during class. Then when it comes to socializing I've living in a country where westerners are the minority so you pretty much end up talking to everyone who is westerner and since koreans are so friendly you end up talking with them too, and since there is a) a desire and b) social pressure you end up talking to lots of women. I'm an INTJ living a very extroverted lifestyle.

[chip]

My problem is not mistrust but choosing who to trust. In truth I heard one side of the story from my friends who I consider trustworthy but I realise I have never heard her side of the story. Given the chance she can clear her name but that means I have misplaced my trust.
Aside from that the pair of us have both moved on. She is in a new relationship with a korean man so they can communicate clearly and I am in a new relationship with a korean women who can speak good english and my korean is coming along. Having an open and honest relationship is our daily practise. We have agreed to keep no secrets from each other which means there is no suspecion or fear. However we do keep secrets together from our friends regarding our sex lives. We make sure not to limit one another and instead rely on trust to guide our moral behaviour instead of obligation. I think the most important ingredient to our relationship is the realisation that both of us always have a choice to be or not to be with each other. Basically we are together one day because that one day we choose to be together and not because we said the day before lets be together tomorrow. Its a relationship based on choice and not committment.

[NinjaTim]

Yeah dual relations can be quite bad depending on the values and morals of the individuals. My mum and dad for example (IEE and SLI respectively) pretty much hate each other, dad sorta simmers inside and tries not to show it, mum just goes apeshit whenever the mood takes her. Same thing between mum and my SLI brother.
Though maybe this is not the best example as I am sure she has underlying issues (there were quite often knife fights and beatings when my older sister (ILE) and I (IEE) used to live at home) Uncle and his girlfriend don't get along with her (ILE, SEI) either so yeah.

Also, I am certain she is IEE, from observing her behaviours myself, and also all of the aforementioned saying to me at one time or another QUOTE "You 2 are like EXACTLY the same...except you're not insane..."