if your dual dislikes you more than you expect your expectatons are unrealistic
if your dual dislikes you more than you expect your expectatons are unrealistic
Originally Posted by ilikesex
Very first guess is absurd.
IEE-Ne
you're getting shoved back into your ego block lol
I have an LSE friend and we could get along better. She's high-achieving and I'm unenthusiastic and lazy in comparison (but I'm actually a hard worker!). I think she can be too insensitive, she thinks I can be too mushy. She wants to hang out with people all the time, I decline many social requests.
Perhaps if we were a little closer we might have the more ideal dual interaction.
I do this all the time.
I'm just shy.
-
Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
So I'm guessing the opposite is true for conflictors:
They like each other more often then expected at first, it's only when they go deeper that they go...
I really dont like sluts but ESTps are such pure sluts that it sort of overwhelms my anti slut ideals.
I've had two duals tell me to my face that they don't like me and another over the phone. Its not that uncommon.
yes, the personalities are opposites.
Well you've met some ESE BITCHES!
God you are so clueless. They are nothing of that kind.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
sorta along those lines, what i've noticed is when people are very undualized (they've been without a dual for a substantial period of time and are totally out of balance), their dual makes them question their own behavior and improve themselves.
The way I feel around a dual is I feel much more comfortable pointing out things I dont like about what they're doing or how they're behaving, than with other people. And I am more accepting of their criticism (whether expressed or unexpressed--and yes I can sense it) and actually admire them for it. It could have something to do with the unusually close psychological proximity.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
Based on this and your previous posts, I have a strong suspicion that you're typing either yourself or your hypothetical duals wrong. Your descriptions of your experiences of duality just don't sound at all like the duality relationships I've observed in real life.
Tell me, have you ever had a positive experience with duality?
The worst I've ever heard someone say about a dual is that they're uninteresting, and that's only when an extravert is talking about an introvert that he doesn't know very well. The early stages, before partners really get to know one another, can be quite difficult. Subtypes have an effect on relationships, as do things like mental instability or emotional issues, but even the worst of dual relationships that I've seen still have a certain base level of mutual sympathy.
Quaero Veritas.
nobody likes eiis.
That's not true. I'd really like to say that I've had negative dual experiences, but it seems that all the delta NFs here fancy me a great deal.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
I've have incredible experiences within duality but honestly when you read of the analyst making massive mistakes with ethical decisions, they're not kidding around. That has been and likely will continue to be my failure. I've screwed up a many a time.
When the OP says duals dislike each other there is some breathing room to interpret that. I mean does you or your dislike each other so much that they purposefully avoid contacting one another?
I've been offended by people who happen to be my duals and well ya unless they correct themselves and say hey ya sorry I offended you then they are a unlikable person.
simple example: I have a hard time remembering people's names. ESE take offense to that.
Every ESE I've ever met laughs and says "I do that too" when I forget names. Typically it would be Fi types, and in particular Gamma SFs, who would take offense at that kind of thing. ESEs have Ignoring Fi, so Fi blunders like forgetting names aren't something they care much about.
What are some other examples of things you've done that cause the people you've typed as ESE to be offended/dislike you?
Quaero Veritas.
Your dual may or may not like you, and you may or may not like them, and you may type them a different type because you don't like them/they don't like you if you put stock in intertype relations.
Actually we should probably type like that, that way we actually will be attracted to our 'duals' when the time comes. And not to worry, if either one of us cease to like the other, we can just change their typings (or ours ofc if it suits our purposes)! Using this foolproof plan, you're bound to be inexplicably attracted to your dual and vice versa at all times.
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You can theorize what I'm saying to you but honestly that is a legitimate example. I have trouble remembering people's names long after the first meeting - they know my name but I don't know theirs - they take offense.
I can remember talking to this girl and asking her flat out: "look everyone says you sleep around", ignorant of me to say but at the same time even though she was a bit shocked and offended she told me that she only has sex in a relationship which implies she faithful and respectable (and she's hot). In an odd way she actually turned out to be better than what the rumours had made her out to be.
I had gotten into a fight with my girlfriend and I left the bar but later she was seen leaving the bar with the bar owner. To the male psyche that means they went home together and my friends told me this and I was completely devestated. Then we realised that they were assuming so we don't know for sure (and likely never will). To be honest it would put my mind at ease to learn the truth, the truth is so much better than soft comforting words that can only last so long and its a million times better than listening to silence.
I asked one of the bartenders if the bar owner had taken my girlfriend home. She said no but I'm not so certain. Before I heard the terrible news she had been very apologetic for no reason - maybe an admittance of guilt - that would explain why she was apologetic for nothing. However once she found out that I asked the bartender about her and the bar owner she was pissed. The next time I talked to her she told me she didn't like me, blah blah. I told her she is unfaithful to me. I saw her and another guy 'eye-fucking' - which was the origination of fight. Though unknown to her but again a friend told me she slept around with that guy before we started dating, upsetting to hear that shit about your girlfriend. I think its a bit ironic that the guy who was said to have slept with her was the same guy she was 'eye-fucking' - she was trying to defend herself that she is not that kind of girl and then she 'eye-fucks' the guy who is nortorious for sleeping with easy women. what a story.
Basically she is showing all the signs of a cheater - dresses in a way that attracts male attention but at the same time holds out on sex with me. Then again speculation as looks can be deceiving and you can never believe everything you hear.
I have no clue what you're talking about. ESE are into data and they remember people's names/number/address/SS number so well...
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
lol
LMAO! +1
(ownz the thread, if not the whole section)
bullshit
Names aren't important when you know the person closely. It's the experiences that matter. Remembering names is +Fi/-Fe.
(i)NTFS
An ILI at rest tends to remain at rest
and an ILI in motion is probably not an ILI
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I don't think I've been very on edge etc with a dual. I've had disagreements for sure, but I think my biggest problem is I don't really notice them.
I'm sure I've met many SEI's before in my life but I also think it's unlikely I've payed more then 5 seconds of attention to them. I haven't had a close relationship with a dual so I not sure how the average person will be like.
Last edited by mu4; 03-03-2011 at 06:02 PM.
Lots of stereotypes like "nerd", "idealist", "bitch" being thrown around in this thread...
Best response was that duals start liking each other when they spend time together. When you're open-minded enough to not judge someone by all the external stuff, but actually talk with them.
Duals don't dislike each other. People dislike each other.
This all sounds a lot like Fi-PoLR, not Fi Role. Fi-Role can be just as paranoid about relationships, but tends to be a lot more careful about and better at adhering to basic social standards of behaviour than what you describe. Have you ever considered ILE as a type?
Which part and how so?
Quaero Veritas.
I have no clue what you're talking about. ESE are into data and they remember people's names/number/address/SS number so well...
Yeah Krig, I'm going to have to agree with EyeSeeCold and Maritsa on this one.
However, I could totally see an ESE saying that just to keep the mood positive, even if it's not true.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
That's what I'm saying, an ESE might be inwardly somewhat disappointed or even hurt that you forgot her name, but since ESE's Base function is -Fe, they're not likely to make a big deal out of it and wreck the mood. Their Ignoring Fi is not important enough to them to overrule their Base Fe.
As for ESEs forgetting names, the ESEs I know are so outgoing and popular that they're constantly meeting far too many new people to ever remember all of their names, despite being Sensors inclined to pick up on details like that. It's possible that not all ESEs are like that, though.
Quaero Veritas.
Honestly ESE take offense. I can remember I kept forgetting this guy I'll call Thumper, okay, people were knocking me because I decided to stop drinking for one month. When I get to the bar everyone is in an uproar calling me gay and a fag and whatnot. I took it. Anyways he started in on the action until I was like your just offended that I forgot your name and he admitted that was why. I had met the guy on numerous occassions and kept having to ask what his name was. He simmered down and is on good terms with me now, so ya, your partially right, in the sense of his base function is fundamentally programed to be positive instead of being negative. Note: He did not invite me to his baby's first birthday party like he did everyone else.
I mean I can remember a co-worker saying flat out its disrespectful and rude to forget someone's name - A ESE co-worker. This is not nothing I conjured up in my head. I have seen the look on people's faces when they realize I forget their names.
The other night I was talking to a ESE girl who I will call bambi, I had to ask for her name again and she was yelling in the bar, "I've told you my name like ten times already", she refused to tell me an elenth time until I asked someone else. Needless to say when i asked for her number she turned me down. Note: when a friend who happens to be a ENTP arrived she perked right up, that whole activity aspect (he has a girlfriend and was only being friendly) and the jealously between duals took effect.
and another thing I guess I'm a highly extroverted introvert likely due to my current lifestyle. i'm a english teacher and have to be, repreat, have to be outgoing and talkative during class. Then when it comes to socializing I've living in a country where westerners are the minority so you pretty much end up talking to everyone who is westerner and since koreans are so friendly you end up talking with them too, and since there is a) a desire and b) social pressure you end up talking to lots of women. I'm an INTJ living a very extroverted lifestyle.
Fixed with the red. They really don't give a shit about wrecking the mood if they know you well enough, hehe.
Ok. I have to be careful to not misunderstand you because that can be created by our relational dynamics, but I get what you mean now. So, are you saying that the ESE forgot the names or that someone else forgot the ESE's name?
1. If it was the ESE who forgot the name, this is almost an impossibility with that type, they wouldn't mention it.
2. If someone else forgot the ESE's name, the ESE would either be
A. hurt or offended/depressed on the inside, because being extraverts and looking to get affirmation of their worth from the outer self, this would present self-confidence issues.
B. if the person who forgot their name didn't mean much to them, they would respond with sarcasm.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
We may rebuild the world out of words, yeah. The idea was whether it's a typical behavior of ESEs to get visibly offended at it, not "inwardly" crap like that; what you said is the opposite of what they said. Are ESEs "inwardly" Fe-PoLR, too?
Note that I never observed this behavior in ESEs - maybe I did not pay attention - so I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you. But even if I had an opinion, I could not agree or disagree with you because you don't actually have one.
In my recent experience with a female INFJ I have noticed that there are BIG problems.
First, we both can see the weakspots of each other so easily... and so easily we can discard each other because of these 'defects'. For example she finds it hard to express herself verbally, she won't be direct under no circumstance, she is constantly with her head in the clouds. And she can see my need for help with Fi, which is to her like her easiest thing... and she interprets it in a negative way sometimes, like I interpret her dumbness (for lack of a better word) and total uncapable-of-driving-a-car nature as irritating.
I think sometimes duals are not the best for long term relationships. Someone in a not conflicting Quadra who's the match (infantile for caregiver, victim for agressor) would be perhaps better. Or even some other caregiver/same romance style.
This does not sound like duality. You seem to be focused on and irritated by the weaknesses in her superid, and she reacts negatively to your criticism because you take hits at her superego. Sounds like superego relations, so either you are ESTp or she is INFp or maybe you are different types altogether.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
Yeah, that doesn't sound at all like duality. With duality, the weaknesses don't seem like weaknesses so much because you don't value them -those issues don't matter to you. It sounds like this is a case of valuing the other person's weak and unvalued functions. If you value the functions the person is weak in and does not value, it is a source of irritation.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
Yeah, doesn't sound like duality to me either.
Dual type
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
Heh, I disagree with all three of you.
They could be very undualized duals, is an appealing way to way it.
I don't think it's about valued vs unvalued functions at all, I think it's about people not getting along. The other person sounds like an INFx, and I don't know enough about Air to say what he is, but it's not about them. I have seen duals act this way before though, especially at first.
And it's easy to be dismissive because of it.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
It does sound like duality to me, just between two people that are incompatible (as Ryu says, they might be both undualized, or just one of the two might be). I have known some ESIs that irritated me to no end with their strong materialism, pushy behavior, excessive mood swings and dislike of anything abstract - but they were definitely my duals, and our immediate superficial interactions were good (I'm splitting the abstract component of a relationship - what we lenjoy about the platonic image of our partner - from the involved component, that is: chemistry, compatible nonverbal communication, etc.).
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
It is duality. I even wish it was not, so that I would not still remember her and have some remote hope of something in the future. I can say she´s not INFP as she was and is always so careful about not hurting my feelings, and also always reminded me of the possibilities of the future and present (Ne). If she's INFP, it´s a very very odd INFP. Basically our problems are about day-to-day life. She´s 31, has been out of from a marriage for 5 months now. She's got a degree in Law and works at the Tribunal as assistant. I am 29, not independent from my parents financially and still in college. She finished her college in like 2002 or something near to that. So there´s a big thing there. We met at a mental/rehab clinic. This is not a good starter. She probably feels like I'm no good for something serious. And I have a feeling she wants a lot of promiscuity and not some serious thing right now.
That sounds like conflictor relations. You sure you typed her and yourself right? The dual and conflictor can actually appear to be somewhat similar on the surface at cursory glance. That sounds like relations I had with an ESTJ. It was easy for me to criticize him for being mean to other people, thus putting his lack in feeling function on the spotlight, as well as for being inefficient with time, engaging in redundant meaningless tasks, and not seeing the big picture of things. His thinking seemed too grounded, too boring, too simplistic to me. He criticized me for being impractical, for making things over-complicated, and not having enough respect for rules and existing order. I also noticed we would interpret each other completely differently. Eventually we learned to just keep out of each other's way.
With duals it is completely another interaction. There is a sense of understanding and communication is smooth. I can't really criticize them much because I secretly enjoy what they are doing, even just observing them. They find what I have to say valuable, and in turn I like spending time in their company.
Last edited by silke; 03-05-2011 at 10:03 AM.
What makes you think an INFp isn't careful about not hurting people's feelings? INFp's are masters that way.
I find it really hard to believe an INFj would be looking for promiscuity.
Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx
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