Type subtypes and PoLR

[schrödinger's cat]

Does subtype influence the PoLR?

Subtype means that I can prefer either the first or the second function of my ego block. (Ego block = first two functions.) I can either have a very strong preference for my first function, or I can be a bit more balanced and have a preference for my first function while also finding my second function quite useful and important.

That means that I can prefer either the judging or the perceiving function in my ego block. Won't that influence my other functions? Like this, for example?

• Ne-Fi-Se-Ti-Si-Te-Ni-Fe
  Ne-Fi-Se-Ti-Si-Te-Ni-Fe

If that is true, then I'd expect first-function subtypes to have a bigger PoLR than second-function subtypes. What do you think? I'm not really sure about this. But it would seem a bit odd if a preference for a judging over a perceiving function (or vice versa) would stop at the ego block.

[Creepy-]

I think there was a thread about subtypes affecting dual relationships, I think it would also apply here (to some extent, at least).

I don't think being a producing subtype will switch your PoLR with your role function or anything but it might change the emphasis.

[schrödinger's cat]

Yes, that's what I meant. Knowing what subtype someone is would then tell you more about how vulnerable he is in his PoLR. So E(N)Tp = HATES and LOATHES and DETESTS Fi; EN(T)p = may tolerate Fi if in a good mood. And E(N)Fp = sucks at Ti, EN(F)p = able to produce some kind of Ti if fed well and kept in an airy spot with plenty of light. That kind of stuff.

[Creepy-]

Yes, that's what I meant. Knowing what subtype someone is would then tell you more about how vulnerable he is in his PoLR. So E(N)Tp = HATES and LOATHES and DETESTS Fi; EN(T)p = may tolerate Fi if in a good mood. And E(N)Fp = sucks at Ti, EN(F)p = able to produce some kind of Ti if fed well and kept in an airy spot with plenty of light. That kind of stuff.

That sounds really cute for some reason...

Would it also stand that the accepting subtype was more of a slave to their hidden agenda than the producing subtype?

[Gilly]

I think that would make me lean towards logical subtype, and I think that could be a possibility. The physical description fits me better (see baby's thread), and it would make more sense of my introversion during childhood. However, the other factors don't really match so well; I may sometimes project an image of seriousness, but only to people who don't know me. Those in my "inner circle" see the goofy, bubbly, outgoing me to a much greater extent, but I think that's true of just about everyone. Is it possible that I'm the logical sub? Hmmm...

[schrödinger's cat]

If I'm getting this right, then the (Ne) subtype would be more in touch with reality, better at generating ideas, bouncier, more dynamic and more easily bored. The (Ti) subtype would be better at doing something with the ideas he generates.

BTW, the ENTP subtype description seems to agree with my theory. Or rather, my theory seems to agree with the description. Or whatever. Look:

Logical Subtype: ... Angular in his movements, does not pay attention to external appearance, worries little about his health.

...and that seems to say that the logical subtype has a weaker Si than the intuitive subtype. Like this:

• Ne-Ti-Se-Fi-Si-Fe-Ni-Te

Unless I'm getting it all wrong, of course.

[Park]

How does subtype affect the rest of the functions in the ego & super-ego block? If, for instance, I am an (base) subtype ISTp, would I also have a more developed and controled role? Would it also make me less sensitive and maybe more neutral to my PoLR?

[Slava]

The difference I noticed between subtypes is how they steal 6th function from people. there are other differences but this is what caught my eye. ENTj-T for example seem to do it in pulses, while ENTj-N do it constantly and in a different way. Their bodies seem to be different too.

[confused84]

Do subtypes effect the way POLR manifest themselves toward types.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Yes

[confused84]

Ripped Off! That was only half and answer.

[Steve]

Yeah, Ashton once made a good observation that it seems the J sub irrationals and the P sub rationals react counterphobically to their PoLR - directly opposing it while the J sub rationals and P sub irrationals react phobically, choosing to dodge it and run away from it.

I notice this with myself and Fi - I definitely directly challenge it with Ti and fight it off, while someone like JRiddy I see as trying to get around it.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Yeah, Ashton once made a good observation that it seems the J sub irrationals and the P sub rationals react counterphobically to their PoLR - directly opposing it while the J sub rationals and P sub irrationals react phobically, choosing to dodge it and run away from it.

I notice this with myself and Fi - I definitely directly challenge it with Ti and fight it off, while someone like JRiddy I see as trying to get around it.

This sounds like aboslute bullshit.

[Rocket]

I've never really subscribed to the sub-type theory and still have my doubts however something happened recently that made me re-think.

I've had several recent interactions with a junior co-worker who in the sub-type theory would be described as an ISTJ-se.

Now the is quite obvious as you would expect, in an "i'm going to stand my ground" sort of way. Knowing the theory i'm particularly careful with ISTJ types so as not to offend them as i consider them to be a great asset on any team.

But what really struck me was the apparent severity in which was absent in this particular individual. I've never seen it lacking to this extent in any ISTJ i've ever worked with before (and i've worked with quite a few).

I won't describe the situation but she seemed entirely out of her depth in dealing with any sort of ambiguity (which was natural and inevitable in the circumstances) or understanding that there was simply more than one way to skin a cat.

Assuming subtype theory could this be due to a strong focus on -creative almost canabilizing -PoLR out of existence? Would be interested in any views on this.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

I've never really subscribed to the sub-type theory and still have my doubts however something happened recently that made me re-think.

I've had several recent interactions with a junior co-worker who in the sub-type theory would be described as an ISTJ-se.

Now the is quite obvious as you would expect, in an "i'm going to stand my ground" sort of way. Knowing the theory i'm particularly careful with ISTJ types so as not to offend them as i consider them to be a great asset on any team.

But what really struck me was the apparent severity in which was absent in this particular individual. I've never seen it lacking to this extent in any ISTJ i've ever worked with before (and i've worked with quite a few).

I won't describe the situation but she seemed entirely out of her depth in dealing with any sort of ambiguity (which was natural and inevitable in the circumstances) or understanding that there was simply more than one way to skin a cat.

Assuming subtype theory could this be due to a strong focus on -creative almost canabilizing -PoLR out of existence? Would be interested in any views on this.

I've seen this in an ISTj-Se too, it's almost fascinating in a way watching them drown themselves in things that don't matter or are not that big a deal.

Yes, it could be explained by sub type theory, when you think about dichotomies, as S goes up, it's counterpart N goes down, in this case the Se increases so there is less and less use of the Ne.

However, as there is more focus on the Se, there is an increased use of the role function of Fi, which can in extreme cases make a blur between ISTj and ISFj, however, out of those with strong sub types i've encountered, in this instance they seem like an ISTj with some slight ISFj qualities, but overall their actual type - the dominant function still wins over in them.

[redbaron]

Se says, "Here are my ingredients, what can I do with them?"

I do this all the time when I have to make dinner. Mostly to avoid having to run to the store. lol

[Aleksei]

Yes. Se-creative is Ne-PoLR. Given that in strong Se-creative subtypes (ISFj-Se and ISTj-Se) the Se is accentuated it makes sense that Ne is even more PoLRarizing than in ISTj-Tis and ISFj-Fis.

Dunno if this post was deleted or what, but I'd disagree with this. Se-creative creates Ne-PoLR by weakening Ne (SLEs have Ne-role, which is stronger). A focus on Se thus should strengthen Ne.

[FDG]

Dunno if this post was deleted or what, but I'd disagree with this. Se-creative creates Ne-PoLR by weakening Ne (SLEs have Ne-role, which is stronger). A focus on Se thus should strengthen Ne.

This type of problem is the ultimate reason why the creative version of a function shouldn't interchangeably be used with its base version. I would convert your reasoning to something like: an IJ type creates by weakening as an EP type creates by weakening or an EJ type creates by weakening .

[JohnDo]

Yes. Se-creative is Ne-PoLR. Given that in strong Se-creative subtypes (ISFj-Se and ISTj-Se) the Se is accentuated it makes sense that Ne is even more PoLRarizing than in ISTj-Tis and ISFj-Fis.

No, it's the other way round. Ti-ISTjs have extremely weak Ne.

[Jarno]

No, it's the other way round. Ti-ISTjs have extremely weak Ne.

I thought so too.

[717495]

Irrationals:

Dominant subtype - weakened functions are: Creative, PoLR, DS, and Demonstrative
Creative subtype - weakened functions are: Dominant, Role, HA, and Ignoring

Rationals:

Dominant subtype - weakened functions are: Creative, PoLR, HA, and Ignoring
Creative subtype - weakened functions are: Dominant, Role, DS, and Demonstrative