It would be convincing... if she didn't have such good relations with Se ego types, including her own mother.Originally Posted by echidna1000
It would be convincing... if she didn't have such good relations with Se ego types, including her own mother.
Well, you're comparing someone who is more musically talented (Tori) to someone who is less musically talented. You're also comparing an alternative singer to a mainstream popstar. So they may seem different, but their overall behaviors are actually quite similar.
They're both someone who write "confessional" songs, they're both someone who write (overly) personal things about them and want to express their emotions in that way and perhaps be validated for it. I'd say IXFx are the most likely types to do this, especially IEIs and SEIs.
They both appear to be fixated on their own emotional worlds to the point of ignoring the reality around them, and that's what most of their songs are about: expressions of their own emotional private worlds.
They have both covered artists like Eminem, and why would they? They seem totally different and you wouldn't expect someone like them to cover someone like Eminem, but they do. It's because there is actually a kind of a similarity in behavior and an overall purpose in what they do.
Yeah, I think EII is one of the better types for her. She's probably one of the IXFxs. It depends on what you mean by irrational, but it comes out in her dislike of rigid rules and plans, and her likes of being in spontaneous situations. But the most significant aspect of rationality is that you stick to a position until you see no good reason to hold on to it.
e.g.:
Also the EII wouldn't make much sense, since she seems to have many good relations with Se egos, and also it seems that she seeks those types of people.
EIIs and other Delta NFs are focused on forming harmonious relationships with people through exploring different points of view. Assuming her mother is an Se-ego, it is not beyond the capacity of an EII to stay on good terms with her.
Furthermore, taking a single point like that and saying that prevents the article from being convincing is not a winning move. After all, I could similarly take the many points made in the article and use them to say your proposed alternative isn't convincing.
Ok, maybe we should look at the people you think are Se egos. How do we know they are Se egos? We'd need to establish that for your point to have relevance.
That's not what I said, you probably haven't read my previous posts but I'll explain again.
These are the reasons why I pretty much think that her mother is an LSI, plus you can see what she's like in some videos, etc:
Their relationship isn't the kind of relationship where they merely stay on good terms with each other, but it's "one of the best", where they rarely conflict with one another. Also Taylor Swift seems to be appreciative of her mother's input, and takes her advice to heart. Socionically, this is definitely not what you would typically call a super-ego relation:
For obvious reasons, this would also rule out SEEs and IEEs.
Again, I already did but I'll explain again.
Well I'd say this good friend of hers, Kelly Pickler is an obvious SEE, and you can see the Se in their interaction:
OK, that description of her mother sounds more Delta ST than Beta ST. I don't see how that's meant to be Ti+Se valuing. The point of Delta ST is about doing as good a job as you can, with the expectation that if you work hard enough at something you will master it.
As for Kelly, that does sound pretty Gamma SF to me. It's really not unusual for an EII to say this about their Gamma SF friends.
She has a good balance of extraverting and spending time to herself from what I know. Doesn't mean she isn't an extravert type. My ESE mom spends a lot of time alone, too.
Yeah. But the entire MBTI world types her ESFJ so there's that. I'd say EII is certainly way better than IEI. She is clearly feeling function first and rational.Only about 3 people in this thread type her as ESE, and I think that's one of the most ridiculous typings actually. I could think of better types than that.
Who were the IEIs again? And SFs hang with SFs of either quadra.When did you debunk how Taylor Swift seems to be gravitated towards mostly IEIs and SEEs? You didn't. ESEs aren't mainly attracted to those types.
Because I know people of all types that listen to all kinds of music, including ESxx of all type that listen to "deep" music.You have ignored how she likes bands like Sigur Ros, which is a clear Ni band.
Because I've seen enough info on both.How do you know? You obviously never bothered to look that much into Taylor Swift.
Yeah, they're both typical singers. Amazing. Tori is WAY more in her own world, too. Not that Taylor doesn't have that, too. I'm also a fan of Tori Amos and Eminem and I have feelings. Am I IEI?I only said that they VI'd similar, but there are some similarities actually...
- They both write "confessional" songs, which are sometimes overly intimate and personal... check
- They have both written about some mistakes that they've made in high school or some embarrassing things from high school... check
- Taylor Swift has covered Tori Amos once... so probably a fan.
- They both have covered Eminem... which are very different from either, and someone who you wouldn't expect to cover from them.
- They both seem to be preoccupied with their own private emotional worlds, and nothing else, and they sing about their own emotional worlds. Very little of "reality" outside of themselves.
This is probably the best argument you've made so far, at least. Give examples of ESE singers too, though, not just EIE. Because they operate differently. Whitney Houston is Fe dom, arguably of either kind, and sings songs more about her feelings, for example.Fe-doms don't tend take to sing or talk things about themselves, either good or bad. Marilyn Manson is an e4 EIE, yet he sings mostly FOR others. Bono is an EIE, he sings FOR others, about someone or people other than himself. That's what Fe-dom is about. Taylor and Tori are all about singing about themselves, about their own emotional worlds and from their own PoV.
Enneagram will also affect things.
4 is normally self centered but so/sp 4 is the ultimate social critic. Bono seems 6. 3 is the real most self centered one and Swift is 3 and Houston is 3 winged (2w3, which is also self centered when you get past everything they do to not seem it).
･ﾟ*✧ 𝓘 𝓌𝒾𝓁𝓁 𝓃𝑜𝓉 𝒶𝒸𝒸𝑒𝓅𝓉 𝒶 𝓁𝒾𝒻𝑒 𝓘 𝒹𝑜 𝓃𝑜𝓉 𝒹𝑒𝓈𝑒𝓇𝓋𝑒 ✧*:･ﾟ
Certainly an Ethical element first. However, why do you think it's? Her songs (at least those written by her) are regularly themed about speculation over relationships, understanding why things went wrong and considering the character of the other individual. She's a good example of someone with
as a focus. There are plenty of
You'd only need to see her in video, she's a lot like Hillary Clinton:
And really, being "very logical" is Te > Ti?
Really, and when did it become "usual" for EIIs to get along with Se egos?As for Kelly, that does sound pretty Gamma SF to me. It's really not unusual for an EII to say this about their Gamma SF friends.
Well, I'd say the Fe in her writing is pretty obvious:
Lots of exuberant and over-the-top enthusiasm.
When she's not being so excited, she writes like this. I'd say she writes like an IEI, like as if she's writing a novel:
Her writing style is rather... informal. She often inserts things like "Just kidding.." or "Haha", which is usually Fe, and often irrational Fe.
Last edited by Singu; 04-15-2017 at 05:54 PM.
Ok, I watched the video. How is she like Hillary Clinton other than that she's a mature woman giving a speech?
Yes, you cannot just assume that being 'logical' means you think in terms of rules and structural absolutes. It could easily mean someone who is pragmatic and fact-focused.
It's just as usual for an EII to hang out with Gamma SFs as it is for an ILE to hang out with Delta NFs. Adjacent quadras often hang out. Note that the way Taylor describes her friend emphasises the Gamma use of.
And how is she suddenly a Delta ST, just because she said something about hard work? Jesus Christ. LSIs also tend to be tough disciplinarians as parents.Ok, I watched the video. How is she like Hillary Clinton other than that she's a mature woman giving a speech?
Yes, you cannot just assume that being 'logical' means you think in terms of rules and structural absolutes. It could easily mean someone who is pragmatic and fact-focused.
It's just as usual for an EII to hang out with Gamma SFs as it is for an ILE to hang out with Delta NFs. Adjacent quadras often hang out. Note that the way Taylor describes her friend emphasises the Gamma use of
If someone describes someone as "very logical" "practical and grounded" "raised me to be logical", then chances are, the person is likely an LSI, a rational Ti type.
Ok, so here is an EII, who describes someone as being "very logical" and loves her for it, and she is describing a Delta ST now? Please. That's not how things work. It's most likely that she is a Ti-valuer who is with a Ti parent.
Well it's hard to find videos of her, here's some interaction between Taylor and her mom (@2:36):
That's more obviously Fe than Delta interaction.
Last edited by Singu; 04-15-2017 at 06:24 PM.
I personally just think ESE, but EII is a very good choice, too, especially after I've thought about it more after the first time someone suggested EII for her here.Certainly an Ethical element first. However, why do you think it's
Again with the stereotypes. I see Delta NFs and Gamma SFs being friends regularly.
･ﾟ*✧ 𝓘 𝓌𝒾𝓁𝓁 𝓃𝑜𝓉 𝒶𝒸𝒸𝑒𝓅𝓉 𝒶 𝓁𝒾𝒻𝑒 𝓘 𝒹𝑜 𝓃𝑜𝓉 𝒹𝑒𝓈𝑒𝓇𝓋𝑒 ✧*:･ﾟ
I'm just going with the information you've given me about her mother. I'm not going to say with any certainty that she's a Delta ST, just that the info you've provided points to Delta ST>Beta ST. A good example of the LSE is Thomas Edison who was basically a workhorse, and worked for hours and hours to get his inventions to function.
Why does any of that suggest LSI to you? Now if she said something like her mother being a person of certainty and absolute clarity, no ambiguities, etc., who made clear rules and expected them to be followed, that would suggest LSI. Being 'practical and grounded' does nothing to suggest LSI over the Delta STs.
Sounds to me like it could easily be an EII with a Delta ST parent. You haven't provided anything that even hints at LSI or avaluing type.
Ok, looking at this video, what strikes me as odd is that the mother is accustomed to the role of welcoming new people and making them feel at home. This is unusual for an
Please, feed me some information that supports LSI for the mother and IEI for Taylor Swift. So far, it's just supporting my position.
The one thing that might work from what you've said is pointing out Taylor Swift's use of
...There's nothing that suggests that her mom was a workaholic with temper issues often described as LSEs. Although she was a successful business exec, she quit her job at 30 to raise Taylor:I'm just going with the information you've given me about her mother. I'm not going to say with any certainty that she's a Delta ST, just that the info you've provided points to Delta ST>Beta ST. A good example of the LSE is Thomas Edison who was basically a workhorse, and worked for hours and hours to get his inventions to function.
Why does any of that suggest LSI to you? Now if she said something like her mother being a person of certainty and absolute clarity, no ambiguities, etc., who made clear rules and expected them to be followed, that would suggest LSI. Being 'practical and grounded' does nothing to suggest LSI over the Delta STs.
Sounds to me like it could easily be an EII with a Delta ST parent. You haven't provided anything that even hints at LSI or a
http://heavy.com/entertainment/2015/...er-mom-cancer/
She seems more like a chill person than a restless workaholic EJ type who always has to be working.
It can go either way, but perhaps this kind of scheduling and organizing is more LSI:
And "totally raising her to be logical" is not a Ti ego thing? Come on, typically it's the Ti egos that have problems with other people's illogicality, and hence the need to raise her as logical.
This is another video with Taylor and her mom, bad quality but it's not like there are a lot of videos of her mom:
Ok, surely a very exciting moment for Taylor... but acting THAT crazy, emotional and wild is pretty unusual for EII.
Why does someone have to be a workaholic with temper issues in order to be LSE? That's a tad stereotypical. LSEs are primarily practical people and are not as intense or confrontational as LSIs.
An LSE could quit their job to be a mum, if they thought it was the best way they could help their children. It could very well be that the father was earning more and the LSE thought that raising the kids was more important than a successful career. That could be interpreted in multiple ways, but the interpretation of her needing to provide better quality care as a parentrather than making some large impact with an important career
Well, making sure that a person's room is tidy is hardly a clear sign of LSI. LSIs mostly push, they are focused on the development of absolutely clear worldviews and see their development as actually becoming more and more detached from day-to-day affairs to the more 'important' stuff. In other words, although great at
As I have said, being 'raised to be logical' can be as much in terms ofas
Well, no. She just won a series of very important awards. Her delight and excitement is entirely sincere and not used to affect the mood around her. EIIs can act like this given the situation.
The arguments you're giving here are based on a questionable analysis of her mothers' type, which seems unsupported by the evidence you have shown, and even then would not be sufficient to type Taylor Swift as IEI (inter-type relations rarely are sufficient to type someone as they are indirect and affected by external factors), and you trying to find videos where she acts differently to the goody-goody, Marcus Aurelius EII stereotype due to the excitement of situation. I recommend reading Rita's article and seeing if you can poke holes in it or show how it is based off of some fundamental misinterpretation. That would be more convincing than what you're doing now.
So you know, my initial impression of Taylor Swift was also IEI. I changed my mind after being confronted with the facts by Rita, especially her
lol... It's just kind of irritating, because I feel like I know more about Taylor Swift than most, while people are typing her based on seeing one or two interviews of her and I'm like, "...That's not what she's like". It's just... WRONG. Where are people seeing EII or ESE? I don't know.
I feel like I have known more about Taylor Swift through this than I should have ever known.
Last edited by Singu; 04-16-2017 at 01:13 AM.
Well, Rita went through the lyrics of a large number of her songs and followed her relationships with her ex boyfriends and musicians like Kanye West in order to identify themes that reoccur consistently in her life. That took a lot more than just watching one or two interviews, but seeing enough to know in depth what she has done and her reasons/motivations for doing so, as well as her interactions with the media that portray and report on her. A lot of work went into that article.
...that was your own argument, that a good example of an LSE was Thomas Edison, who was a workaholic.
I don't think it's true that LSEs aren't as intense or confrontational as LSIs, perhaps they are even more so. They are known to use rage to get their way.
My point wasn't that she wants a room to be tidy, but rather she wants things to be more organized, and she has the skill to do so. It could be either way, but perhaps that's more Ti.Well, making sure that a person's room is tidy is hardly a clear sign of LSI. LSIs mostly push
I don't agree that LSIs suddenly becoming more and more detached from day-to-day affairs to the more 'important' stuff. For the most part, STjs are detail-orientated and pragmatic about day-to-day affairs.
Of course, but perhaps we should just take things at a face value. She has been saying that her mom is "very logical" for many times at different interviews, so it probably means what we think it means in a dictionary definition of the word: that she simply is a very logical and orderly person.As I have said, being 'raised to be logical' can be as much in terms of
Of course it's not impossible, but it's highly unlikely. Are EIIs completely stoic and unemotional? No, but acting THAT emotional and crazy is pretty unusual for EIIs.
"Her delight and excitement is entirely sincere and not used to affect the mood around her"
Seriously? Do every Fe types have to express everything to affect the mood around her? And they're insincere to boot? Please.
Well unfortunately some people say that typing through songs is not a good idea, while some do.The arguments you're giving here are based on a questionable analysis of her mothers' type, which seems unsupported by the evidence you have shown, and even then would not be sufficient to type Taylor Swift as IEI (inter-type relations rarely are sufficient to type someone as they are indirect and affected by external factors), and you trying to find videos where she acts differently to the goody-goody, Marcus Aurelius EII stereotype due to the excitement of situation. I recommend reading Rita's article and seeing if you can poke holes in it or show how it is based off of some fundamental misinterpretation. That would be more convincing than what you're doing now.
So you know, my initial impression of Taylor Swift was also IEI. I changed my mind after being confronted with the facts by Rita, especially her
If we were typing through songs, then I would say that her songs have Fe themes: anger, rage, euphoria, melancholy and so on. Fi is on average is more limiting and calming of emotions, while Fe is more dramatic and expanding, which I feel are what Taylor Swift's music is like.
But she is an EII because:
- Her songs focus on relationships
- She makes a lot of friends (???)
Sorry, but I don't really buy that. Do IEIs also not focus on relationships when they're making songs? Sure she makes friends, except that they seem to be mostly Se valuers...
Ok, and what about her songs about her exes? They're mostly about lashing out at them and kind of trying to make the most emotional damage and impact on them as possible, whether it be good or bad. When EIIs feel wronged, what they tend to do is make the other person feel guilty and bad (while they quietly suffer perhaps), so that they would come back to them asking for forgiveness (as described by Uniden in another post). Not really related, but something that I've noticed about SEEs' Fi is that they tend to try to mend the relationship through peace and make everything all right again, when typically they themselves have screwed up the relationship somehow.
Taylor Swift lashes out at whomever she thinks deserves her ire (her exes). I'd say that's more Fe.
Yeah, I'm sure a lot of work went into that article, but I don't really agree with the reasoning, it seems bizarre to me. Like why would she be an EII, just because her songs focus on relationships, or the fact that she has many friends?
And she used to listen to Kanye, I'm sure that she used to be a fan. Obviously, anyone is going to be upset when somebody interrupts you when you're receiving an important award. I don't think those things are ITR related, but the fact the she creates feuds so often and frequently, perhaps is.
LSEs believe in working hard at whatever you do so that you do a good job and tend to believe that just working hard enough allows you to accomplish anything you set your mind to. However, that does not mean they have to be workaholics in the sense of putting aside things like family. So yes, Swift's mother can both place an emphasis on hard work and give up her job to invest in her children.
LSEs tend to be very high energy, and seem even tireless. However, they are not inclined to use their rage to get their own way. That's a very
Organising isn't necessarily
Each type must be understood in terms of its main pushing functions. These are the Leading and the Mobilising. It's no use grouping the 'STj' types together as if you're from socionics.com, because that completely overlooks the nuances of Model A.
logical
ˈlɒdʒɪk(ə)l/Submit
adjective
of or according to the rules of logic or formal argument.
"a logical impossibility"
synonyms: reasoning, thinking, straight-thinking, rational, objective, analytical, cerebral, insightful; More
characterized by or capable of clear, sound reasoning.
"her logical mind"
synonyms: reasoned, well reasoned, rational, sound, cogent, well thought out, valid; More
(of an action, decision, etc.) expected or sensible under the circumstances.
"the polar expedition is a logical extension of his Arctic travels"
synonyms: natural, unsurprising, only to be expected, understandable, reasonable, sensible; More
^^ so the Dictionary defines 'logical' in both
It is in no way manifestly unusual for an EII to express their absolute delight in this way after winning such an important series of awards.
They do not have to, but such use would be the sticking point by which I could say a person is unlikely to be
Her songs do not have recurring
"Unlike E-based artists such as David Bowie (EIE), Freddie Mercury (EIE), or Bob Dylan (IEI), there is an absence in Swift’s artistry of any sentiment-based rallying or visionary redirection of the status quo (e.g. Mercury’s “We are the Champions”, “I Want to Break Free,” “Don’t Stop Me Now”, Dylan’s “Blowin’ in the Wind”, “Times They are A-Changing”, and Bowie’s “Heroes”, “Young Americans”). "
Well, no. I wouldn't say the point of
"Relations (R):
Aspect: Personal attitudes and bonds of trust. People naturally possess set characteristics of their personality which make them a certain way, and result in a certain character. The quality of this character can manifest sentimentally in what someone feels is good or bad, the inner sentiment experiencing attraction and repulsion to various stimuli. Similarly, a person's character can be likewise judged to be good or bad by others. In this way, two people of mutually attracting characters can come together in a close bond, or if repulsing, move apart.
Metabolism: The individual consults their personal attitudes towards people and events they encounter, registering whether they are attracted to or repulsed. In this way, judgments are formed on people's character assessing whether they are good and trustworthy, or not. From this judgment, an appropriate psychological distance can be established and maintained, with liked people being kept close as friends, and disliked people being kept away with animosity. In doing so, the individual decides their relationships with others.
Strength: The person has a good awareness of their subjective opinions towards other people and things, knowing with confidence what feels wrong or right to them. With other people, they can confidently decide on a person's character, judging whether they are good for them or not. They will be able to integrate these judgments into their treatment of others with appropriate nuance, setting the right sort of relationship with each person they interact with, allowing stable, reliable loyalties. They can expertly tell apart their friends from their foes, as well as business relations and acquaintances. [Applies to SEI, ESE, EIE, IEI, SEE, ESI, EII & IEE.]
Value: In valuing sincere treatment of people by individual merit, the person places an emphasis on the stability and reliability of their relationships with others, trying to treat each person in line with the way the unique relationship feels to them, based on character judgment. They will prioritise their relations with the people they like, giving preferential treatment and opening up in ways they would not with acquaintances, losing their usual formality. Fidelity is seen as especially important, and the person will try to know where they stand with others, being hurt by those who violate their bond. [Applies to SEE, ILI, LIE, ESI, LSE, EII, IEE & SLI.]"
So, when it comes to Taylor Swift's songs, we see a clear, reoccurring theme of making new relationships, exploring and speculating on the characters in those relationships and reflecting back on how and why those relationships ended. This is the use of bothand supporting
I'm afraid you've largely bought the media's portrayal of Taylor Swift over her songs about her exes. That doesn't represent Swift's intentions at all and her disagreement with that interpretation is something she has actually expressed in interviews and in later songs. The point is she absolutely doesn't see her songs about her exes as a means of getting revenge on them through emotional impact or lashing out to try and destroy their reputations. Instead, these songs are simply part of her 'diary' approach to song-writing, where she explores her relationships, both good and bad. They can be over-personal, but to Swift, how they are perceived by the audience is less important to her than setting out honestly her attitudes towards the people who used to go out with her. I recommend you watch an interview where she talks about her reasons for writing 'Blank Space', which is her attempt to satirise how the media has painted her. She has been 'Beta-ised' by their interpretation and it isn't something she relates to at all.
Yes, she used to listen to Kanye (EIE). It's interesting that even after he trash-talks her, she comes back with an attempt to harmonise the relationship between them. It's very 'good-faith' judgement.
Last edited by World Socionics; 04-18-2017 at 12:58 AM.
When will @Singularity give up
･ﾟ*✧ 𝓘 𝓌𝒾𝓁𝓁 𝓃𝑜𝓉 𝒶𝒸𝒸𝑒𝓅𝓉 𝒶 𝓁𝒾𝒻𝑒 𝓘 𝒹𝑜 𝓃𝑜𝓉 𝒹𝑒𝓈𝑒𝓇𝓋𝑒 ✧*:･ﾟ
I think it's common for EIIs to do that. FWIW, I have an ESI friend who I get along with great, an LSI aquaintance who I havw no problem with, and an SEE dad who I get along with perfectly. I don't think the intertype relations are the "end-all be-all" of Socionics
that feel when you want to upvote but don't want to bullyWhen will @Singularity give up
Well it's not so much to do with getting along or not getting along, but it has to be consistent with the relation of supervision. Looking at some other writings of Taylor Swift about her friend Kelly Pickler, it doesn't seem to be a relation of supervision. It's also definitely a little unusual for Se-PoLR to consistently seek Se-dom types. But still, I think that people should be generally typed based on their overall behavior, and not some microscopic analysis like "This person talks about relationships, therefore it must be Fi". "Model A" typings seems a bit futile sometimes, and it's much simpler to talk about their overall behaviors.
But anyway, most people tend to type people based on some initial "vibes" about them, and rarely become convinced of otherwise, because you can easily justify away anything by saying "Well maybe it's because...". Saying that "Well intertype-relations aren't everything" is just one of the many rationalizations.
Well if you want to do that, you can. It just doesn't align with the functionality of Model A and any of your typings that do align with using Model A would be coincidental. Yes, Intertype Relations do take into account 'getting along'; maybe rather how they get along would be a better way of stating it. I can't imagine an EII and an SLE having particular fond views of one another, however I can see them managing in a not-so-close relationship. Do I feel 'Supervised' by SEEs? Not particularly, but that is my perception and I may just be completely oblivious to Se. The SEE might have a completely different perception of our relationship, one that takes into account my largely lacking use of his/her favored Se.
What I'm trying to say in "Taylor Terms" is that Taylor might have a lovely perception, or at least say she does to maintain the peace (Si), with the other (let's say an Se-Ego) but you don't know what's going through the other person's head until you talk or hear from them about the topic.
I'm not trying to rationalize, I'm saying that they aren't. People grow to accomodate others' needs, it's a human thing. If Model A was 100% true and the Intertype Relations were 100% true, wouldn't you think we would be living in a half-dead, robotic zombie world? As much as that seems to be the case these days, it isn't.
Last edited by Jake; 04-19-2017 at 03:01 AM.
Well here's a footage of Taylor Swift and Kelly Pickler, and it doesn't seem like supervision. It seems more like a typical interaction between Se-dom and Ni, where @2:00 Kelly Pickler does some crazy stunt on the boat, and Taylor is like "Kelly! Get back in the boat! You guys, I'm trying to keep you guys alive":
Taylor is obviously very confident with Kelly Pickler.
Another video with Taylor and Kelly Pickler, where they're acting more naturally but they both seem fine (@2:30, there's also a bit of footage with Taylor and Miley Cyrus (SEE)):
This is more like supervision, where Taylor seems unusually passive, nervous and inconfident, while the interviewer seems fine (@2:00). This is the kind of asymmetry that you see in relation of supervision:
I think this is a fairly Fe reaction to Te, to his manager Rick Barker, who I think is EXTj:
"He just calls me the T Swift , and I don't know why. I don't even have like a name, it's like "the T Swift", it's like an object... it really hurts my feelings. Cause it makes me feel like I'm not a person. It hurts my feelings, I cry at night... My mom named me Taylor, people call me Taylor, he refers to me as the T Swift" (@1:15)
This is Rick Barker, where he talks a lot about Te stuff:
How To Get A Songwriting Publishing Deal? [Rick Barker] New Artist Blueprint
I don't see IEI anywhere in those videos, in fact that just made me more sure she's not a Ni/Se user whatsoever.
･ﾟ*✧ 𝓘 𝓌𝒾𝓁𝓁 𝓃𝑜𝓉 𝒶𝒸𝒸𝑒𝓅𝓉 𝒶 𝓁𝒾𝒻𝑒 𝓘 𝒹𝑜 𝓃𝑜𝓉 𝒹𝑒𝓈𝑒𝓇𝓋𝑒 ✧*:･ﾟ
Personally, I think typing people based on their inter-type relations is putting the cart before the horse. The specifics of inter-type relations are theoretical and can only be put together from observing people we've already typed. We cannot know what the relationship of Supervision is like without watching people we've typed SEE and EII interact.
@Singularity - If you don't stop commenting on this thread I'll call Taylor myself and tell her you're stalking her
its very Ni, which I've said in the past is like "look guys the facts could hang together this way therefore they must hang together this way!" (when its only one of many competing pictures of the situation)--needs a more rigorous grounding, like you've pointed out here... rigor could even constitute mass "delusion" (or, less pejoratively, consensus), which is when Ni visions "catch on" (I say delusion because it could be "objective" in spite of the facts via Fe, as so often many ideas have been shown to be)... singularity is probably still holding out for it to catch on, however the prospects are looking grim at this point; but, for the sake of argument, were that to happen, it would retroactively validate his approach which is an interesting phenomenon if you think about it
otherwise its just sort of hanging out there, alone. very voice in the wilderness
Now that would be cool if WSS could set up some kind of lab experiment like that
Okay... then how about Andy Biersack (EII) and Juliet Simms (SEE)? I think they're SEE-EII:
Are you be willing to type them? Are you going to put an effort into that? Btw there's more information on his thread:
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...-Andy-Biersack
She will love it. And anyway, are you an EII or IEI? You're changing your type every 2 seconds.
Last edited by Singu; 04-20-2017 at 01:16 AM.
Lmao she will. I'm EII
Haha, this was me for years, glad she has been exposed for the snake she really is. It's not a bad thing to be a Slytherin, she should be proud!
Uh-huh, she's clearly not ok psychologically speaking, but it makes for fun entertainment.
Yep, I mean look at her:
If that ain't SLE I don't know what is. I'm only half joking.
Just looking at this pics, if you can't at least see she's a Beta Extrotim I question yourMadonna (SLE) and Swift performing together with that much chemistry or without any awkwardness, and they're conflictors? Sure...
Selena Gomez (IEI) and Taylor Swift famously gets along well:
Her mom seems to be an ISTj, who is "really really logical". I think we can cross out Ti-PoLRs for her type. Also Se-PoLR wouldn't make sense, and super-ego relations won't be that close or warm as she describes.
I MEAN COME ON, she is getting along well with many Beta types. She is very very likely a Beta type.
As for her house, it just looks like her parents' house (ISTj mom), and that might have influenced her:
People who hate her will want to have nothing to do with her, therefore typing her as ESE fits because besides her fitting all the negative stereotypes them all quadras represented here have their hands clean. Interestingly enough, I see Deltas wanting to claim her sometimes on other typing threads and I have to laugh, their motives are so transparent
Actually I noticed this trend of typing celebrities you can't stand as ESE, I wonder why that is...But then again Maritsa says she's ESE, so that must be true!!!
But really, starting posts by saying "I don't like her" or "I've never liked her" doesn't make your opinion more credible, quite the opposite. It just makes the bias more evident.
Geez, I actually feel for you, you're so invested. Stay strong
She's EII
Could you type her without stereotypes? Saying she looks a certain type in pictures or using some sort of false nomenclature to prove your point says a lot about your understanding of Socionics. You could try starting off with Model A & IMEs instead of your false presumptions.
You'd do good doing the same before pointing fingers sweetheartTyping her EII due to her lyrics and blatantly fake persona built on sentimentalism says a lot about your understanding of Socionics but most importantly, people. Others did a good job of debunking your typing before me, so I thought why bother beating a dead horse, when everything that had to be said had already made the rounds? But judging by the fact you took my words so seriously, I guess I do have to lay it down literally for you.
But if you want to continue this debate that is clearly very serious and significant to you (God knows why), then sure, I'll make the effort and point out everything that was wrong in your own "assumptions" (do you realize how prissy you sound? I bet not but it's so funny).
And by the way your response to my teasing was precisely how I expect it to be: lacked any wit or bite. I do wonder, does it hurt when you sit down? It must not be fun, so I'll try and be understanding of where you're coming from.
In fact I might reconsider my typing of Swift based on just that: her response to Tina Fey's joke about her dating life? Matches your response to my joke to a T. Perhaps you too are, indeed, identical types.
In fact, it's not MY typing. It's a typing of quite a few Socionists who have more skill and experience than anyone on this forum. I would ask them instead of pointing your finger at me. But if you haven't read it already, one of them already laid Singularity to waste about it.You'd do good doing the same before pointing fingers sweetheart
But if you want to continue this debate that is clearly very serious and significant to you (God knows why), then sure, I'll make the effort and point out everything that was wrong in your own "assumptions" (do you realize how prissy you sound? I bet not but it's so funny).
And by the way your response to my teasing was precisely how I expect it to be: lacked any wit or bite. I do wonder, does it hurt when you sit down? It must not be fun, so I'll try and be understanding of where you're coming from.
In fact I might reconsider my typing of Swift based on just that: her response to Tina Fey's joke about her dating life? Matches your response to my joke to a T. Perhaps you too are, indeed, identical types.
I'll reiterate, persona = personality. NOBODY can fake their personality that well to the point of coming off like another type, especially when we don't even type people by what they appear like on the outside; rather, we type their motivations. Therefore, you have no argument and should, again, rethink your understanding of Socionics if you're going to come in guns blazing on a forum about the subject.
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Another thing, “Change” is finally up on iTunes and all the benefits go to Team USA for the Olympics. Maybe check it out? That would be awesome. Hey I’m getting on a plane to go play a show in Hamburg, NY. I’ll blog more later, I just wanted to let you know you’re incredible for that VMA nomination. Thanks, I love you dearly.
