Gilly is not EIE and certainly not IEI

[Kim]

What is the case for beta NF?

[Joy]

He seems to have Beta values?

[Kim]

He seems to have Beta values?

Like what?

[olduser]

hmm. you have a point. i think bulletsanddoves is a great example of EIE-- bordering on stereotypical, and i don't see much in common between gilly and bnd. maybe gilly is entp or enfp?

[Kim]

Heath, I think he is far more likely to be either ENTp or ENFp. Those are my top choices for him and I think I made an elaborate case for ENFp at some point in the past.

I just don't see it beta NF.

[olduser]

Heath, I think he is far more likely to be either ENTp or ENFp. Those are my top choices for him and I think I made an elaborate case for ENFp at some point in the past.

I just don't see it beta NF.

it's cause he's just a little sunshiney huh?

[implied]

hmm. you have a point. i think bulletsanddoves is a great example of EIE-- bordering on stereotypical, and i don't see much in common between gilly and bnd. maybe gilly is entp or enfp?

i actually could reasonably see gilly and bnd as similar types, if not the same. the only difference is that gilly isn't gay. their "rants" remind me of each other a lot.

anyhow i got pretty set on gilly being an NF over the course of meeting him. i'm not sure about although i think it somewhat makes sense, and some type would be my next guess for him, after a beta.

[Joy]

Like what?

Hmmm... It's sort of a colorful, larger than life, animated... idk, I guess to me Betas just seem like the "edgiest" types?

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Joy]

Well... edgier than most Ne/Si types, in any case

[implied]

What is the case for beta NF?

so tell us what he is?

[Kim]

so tell us what he is?

I am not sure, but ENTp or ENFp are far more likely IMHO.

I was asking the way I did because I am curious as to why people think he is beta.

[Creepy-Pied Piper]

Removed at User Request

[Joy]

I think there are a lot of types who would say that.

[Joy]

Just out of curiosity, why do you put people's names in bold?

[Kim]

If they both admit they are often excited to offer (especially BulletsAndDoves) and receive (especially Gilly) meaningful presents to/from friends, would you agree to reconsider the opinion that they are Beta Fe types?

I don't think so. How is that related to Fe?

I don't think Gilly has the beta edginess, tbh. My relationship with IEIs is always the same: we hit it off fabulously, become great friends with a "special connection," then I feel it's all a bit too close psychologically and back off a little OR they do their push and pull thing and I don't know what the hell is going on. In the end, things usually crumble and it's always very sad. This is true for romances as well as friendships (I have been told I am cold by IEIs, which baffles me to this day).

Of course that is just me and this refers to real life people (except for krae ), but in my interaction with Gilly it has never been remotely like that and it's because Gilly does not have the broody IEI self-centeredness ALTHOUGH it might feel like it to him. When I was in my teens/early twenties I would have self-typed as IEI in a heartbeat. I was moody, emotional, wrote poetry, was introspective, emo, and all the rest of it and I have heard from a lot of -leading types that it was the same for them. It's working through a sort of adolescent confusion I think (I really don't want to sound condescending in a "wait until you get to my age and you will figure it out" kinda way ).

I could be talked into considering EIE, but I IEI I just don't see. IEI are not goofy the way Gilly is goofy. They are very concerned about their grace and dignity (at least the ones I know irl) in an artsy sort of way. I would never consider strrrng, krae, Auvi, or most other IEIs around here to be goofy in a silly Gilly way. His humor seems alpha and he reminds me more of BG than of the IEIs. I have considered IEE because he reminds me of myself a lot of times, but that could just be the Ne and E7 (which he doesn't believe).

Bleh, it's hard to describe what I mean.

[Kim]

I am quite sure that he is not SLE.

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Satan]

I don't think so. How is that related to Fe?

I don't think Gilly has the beta edginess, tbh. My relationship with IEIs is always the same: we hit it off fabulously, become great friends with a "special connection," then I feel it's all a bit too close psychologically and back off a little OR they do their push and pull thing and I don't know what the hell is going on. In the end, things usually crumble and it's always very sad. This is true for romances as well as friendships (I have been told I am cold by IEIs, which baffles me to this day).

Of course that is just me and this refers to real life people (except for krae ), but in my interaction with Gilly it has never been remotely like that and it's because Gilly does not have the broody IEI self-centeredness ALTHOUGH it might feel like it to him. When I was in my teens/early twenties I would have self-typed as IEI in a heartbeat. I was moody, emotional, wrote poetry, was introspective, emo, and all the rest of it and I have heard from a lot of -leading types that it was the same for them. It's working through a sort of adolescent confusion I think (I really don't want to sound condescending in a "wait until you get to my age and you will figure it out" kinda way ).

I could be talked into considering EIE, but I IEI I just don't see. IEI are not goofy the way Gilly is goofy. They are very concerned about their grace and dignity (at least the ones I know irl) in an artsy sort of way. I would never consider strrrng, krae, Auvi, or most other IEIs around here to be goofy in a silly Gilly way. His humor seems alpha and he reminds me more of BG than of the IEIs. I have considered IEE because he reminds me of myself a lot of times, but that could just be the Ne and E7 (which he doesn't believe).

Bleh, it's hard to describe what I mean.

I thought Gilly was just gay.

[Gilly]

I don't know, this and the other posts here have zero introspection, or it's like surface stuff. 4? hardly..

I don't think there's much room for introspection in typing using a system that observes people objectively. I used to do it all the time, but I've realized that it's largely irrelevant to Socionics typing. Not sharing my impressions makes me not a 4? I beg to differ.

[Gilly]

Q & A on Object Relations

I relate infinitely more to Frustration relations.

Sorry, but I'm a 4; there's not much that could convince me otherwise at this point.

[Gilly]

I'm confused, How do you do it with the 'best fit' thing, fundamentally it is working with stereotypes again, just in the reverse manner. For every typing a semi intelligent person can come up again and again with myriad of counter points to the observations.

The point is not whether it is or isn't working with stereotypes, but rather that using a "best fit" approach, the amalgamation of various aspects of a type are taken into account, rather than saying "oh this one thing fits/doesn't fit, so x must be true/false."

Throughout all your type changes, you've always been refuting with rock solid, sharp assurance, whatever might suggest you are not the type you settled yourself for.

But see, really that's not what I feel; I don't feel that certain, it's just a method of deflection The real underlying mechanism here is that I invariably wind up feeling like something doesn't fit, that it's not exactly right, no matter what typing I have; that's Frustration, and maybe security at 1 too.

[misutii]

ENTp

ditto

[Creepy-Cyclops]

I feel I should be making some big post here, but it doesn't matter, Gilly's decided what type he roughly is, although I would consider ESTp as well as Beta NF.

He's an obvious Beta imo.

I haven't given it much more thought than that (except Beta seems to be most obvious for him).

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Thanks for your post, interesting clarification re ESTp, sounds good!

I'm on a cell phone just now so I can't really post this so well so i'll maybe post later. Oh, fwiw, I don't think the behaviour is bad in anyway! Just maybe different from mine, it's maybe more along the lines of playful confrontation, or banter or such, which if anything is *maybe* more Beta? Eh, I still think he's Beta from my interpretation and the kinda small reinin outlook, some Beta NF them? lol, i'll maybe re-phrase this, or something when i'm at the pc, tricky to type here, but i'm bored and commuting just now and felt the need to type this, as maybe irrelevant as it may be, ha.

[Gilly]

Ugh, doubt ;_;

You people suck. But I need this. But you still suck. Thank you. FUCK.

[Gilly]

I am beginning to lean towards EIE, but I'm still not sure.

[Kim]

I am beginning to lean towards EIE, but I'm still not sure.

Why do you think you are beta?

[Gilly]

Most of the people I have developed friendships with quickly have been Betas; Betas seem attractive to me in terms of who I would like to associate myself with; my best friend is SEE, and my roommate, with whom I am very close, is either LSI or LIE; I tend to get along best with Betas; I think I need Se more than any other function; I think I am naturally aware of Fe dynamics and Ni is pretty well descriptive of my natural state; Si role makes sense for me in terms of being something that I "try but overdo;" Te PoLR makes sense of my particular kind of forgetfulness/spaciness; Ti-seeking makes sense of my approach to having an objective, logically cohesive worldview that I take a form of arrogant pride in; I tend to see SLEs as a kind of distant ideal, someone I wish I could be more like but just don't really have it in me. I gravitate towards having a small, tightly-knit group of friends who are openly competitive, like to live risky, have strange or controversial ways of seeing the world, like to talk about off-color or taboo things, and are unafraid of conflict or speaking their minds. The people I tend to ignore or have the least interest in are people who I see as satisfied with a boring, commonplace life, who are afraid of letting intensity or unfamiliarity into their lives, who try not to think about things too much and just go on living the life that's been set in front of them without considering what else might be out there for them; I enjoy controversy and emotionally volatile exchanges because I like the discharge; I tend to pen shit up too much, I need someone who I feel safe arguing with and am not afraid of them being too offended by my directness, someone who I don't have to worry about, who can take my anger simply at face value and not as something that is a direct reflection of how I feel about them.

[Khamelion]

im perfectly comfortable with him being a beta NF. im pretty close with a lot of beta's, include 2 EIE's...so...i think thats saying at least a little something. also the fact that i e-know gilly here pretty well ;]