Gilly is not EIE and certainly not IEI

[Satan]

I don't think so. How is that related to Fe?

I don't think Gilly has the beta edginess, tbh. My relationship with IEIs is always the same: we hit it off fabulously, become great friends with a "special connection," then I feel it's all a bit too close psychologically and back off a little OR they do their push and pull thing and I don't know what the hell is going on. In the end, things usually crumble and it's always very sad. This is true for romances as well as friendships (I have been told I am cold by IEIs, which baffles me to this day).

Of course that is just me and this refers to real life people (except for krae ), but in my interaction with Gilly it has never been remotely like that and it's because Gilly does not have the broody IEI self-centeredness ALTHOUGH it might feel like it to him. When I was in my teens/early twenties I would have self-typed as IEI in a heartbeat. I was moody, emotional, wrote poetry, was introspective, emo, and all the rest of it and I have heard from a lot of -leading types that it was the same for them. It's working through a sort of adolescent confusion I think (I really don't want to sound condescending in a "wait until you get to my age and you will figure it out" kinda way ).

I could be talked into considering EIE, but I IEI I just don't see. IEI are not goofy the way Gilly is goofy. They are very concerned about their grace and dignity (at least the ones I know irl) in an artsy sort of way. I would never consider strrrng, krae, Auvi, or most other IEIs around here to be goofy in a silly Gilly way. His humor seems alpha and he reminds me more of BG than of the IEIs. I have considered IEE because he reminds me of myself a lot of times, but that could just be the Ne and E7 (which he doesn't believe).

Bleh, it's hard to describe what I mean.

I thought Gilly was just gay.

[Satan]

lmao, if only it were that easy...might as well turn me into a gay guy, I'll just marry him and all of my troubles will be over

You're already that gay guy.

[Satan]

Kim, my impression of Gilly appears to be rather different from you.

He seems to participate in conflict on the boards, he participates in baiting other people, and I don't get the impression that he's adverse to conflict.

If you view the language and his confrontation manner in this post, it seems rather unothodox behaviour for someone outwith Beta.

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...3-post105.html

And











IMO, Serious over Judicious, it seems he simply makes his mind up too quickly to be Ne/Si. Ne/Si types need to take in a lot of information before they come to a decision (even then they may not speak with absolute certainty on an issue) [look at Ezra for instance, who would change/make up his mind so much on such a compariatively small amount of information (to us), he's been describes as a ping pong ball, or the forwardness and finality of LSI's]. Gilly also appears to be rather mobilised to be a Judicious type.





These quotes are also rather confrontational.

I'm not saying he's definately SeTi, i'm saying it's possible, I am saying he's Beta. I fail to see how he's Judicious (ruling out Delta and Alpha) or Serious (ruling out Delta and Gamma), therefore Beta is the only one left.

BTW, I didn't go hunting for these links or quotes in depth, they were pretty easy to find, I really just picked off the top few.

Because only SLEs enjoy conflict. Everyone else has to take themselves way too seriously.

Come on, get a grip. Everyone can enjoy conflict.

[Joy]

Well that settles it: you are ILI! Congratulations - you have the best dual!

SEE's are the best duals?

[Gilly]

I don't know, this and the other posts here have zero introspection, or it's like surface stuff. 4? hardly..

I don't think there's much room for introspection in typing using a system that observes people objectively. I used to do it all the time, but I've realized that it's largely irrelevant to Socionics typing. Not sharing my impressions makes me not a 4? I beg to differ.

[Gilly]

Q & A on Object Relations

I relate infinitely more to Frustration relations.

Sorry, but I'm a 4; there's not much that could convince me otherwise at this point.

[Gilly]

See, the biggest problem I have with some people's approach (in this case krae's) to typing is that they use the method of exclusion: "You aren't like any XXXs I know; therefore you can't be one;" "You lack such and such trait of XXXs; therefore you can't be one." I think that's total bullshit. What matters when determining Socionics type is the best fit, not whether one can check off all of the little stereotype boxes. Self-depricating humor is not a "must" for all IEIs, and is hardly a good measure of type; reeks of grasping at straws.

[Creepy-bg]

I relate infinitely more to Frustration relations.

Sorry, but I'm a 4; there's not much that could convince me otherwise at this point.

how about the wind shifting directions?

[Gilly]

how about the wind shifting directions?

Watch me.

[Gilly]

Interesting, because people tell me all the time that I'm easy to open up to because I feel very safe, accepting, nonthreatening, etc.

And, of course, you can't type non-stereotypical people by stereotypes. :wink:

+34665676345734675

[Gilly]

So I'm not light and pushable, and yet nick is? o_O

[Gilly]

BUT...BUT...

[Gilly]

Maybe it's because I'm the "Dominant" subtype

[crazedrat]

i can only see gilly as EIE. nothing he or anyone else says will change my mind

[Gilly]

Hmm... It's rather abstract, but I'll try to explain that feel... IEIs - are like coordinates in the room, like clouds, you can move inside them, somehow. And they don't push or limit you the way others do. It doesn't matter if they are loud, the way strrrng is loud. He still doesn't feel threatening, to me. I can walk "inside" and "behind" that aggression, and just observe it almost from within, without it really "touching" me, the way other people can push with their presence. And then I can just relax happily on that cloudy cushion of IEI-ness, and it's somehow absolutely non-threatening and light.

What do you "feel" with me?

...besides sexual arousal

[crazedrat]

You are a cushion as well.

come on over and lay down in the cushion

[Gilly]

I'm confused, How do you do it with the 'best fit' thing, fundamentally it is working with stereotypes again, just in the reverse manner. For every typing a semi intelligent person can come up again and again with myriad of counter points to the observations.

The point is not whether it is or isn't working with stereotypes, but rather that using a "best fit" approach, the amalgamation of various aspects of a type are taken into account, rather than saying "oh this one thing fits/doesn't fit, so x must be true/false."

Throughout all your type changes, you've always been refuting with rock solid, sharp assurance, whatever might suggest you are not the type you settled yourself for.

But see, really that's not what I feel; I don't feel that certain, it's just a method of deflection The real underlying mechanism here is that I invariably wind up feeling like something doesn't fit, that it's not exactly right, no matter what typing I have; that's Frustration, and maybe security at 1 too.

[Gilly]

lol.... you are ILI, you claim? Those are such frustrating clouds, I've tried them. You just keep falling through them, and they never catch you the way the IEI-cushions do. (You sure seem IEI, though....)

offtopic: everyone wishes crazedrat was IEI

He IS IEI.

[Gilly]

Yes, I'm glad you admitted it, because I typed it and erased it a couple of times, wondering if you're going to deflect that too. This is some good stuff now, now we're talking, mechanisms.

Ok, moar?

I could attribute that to some E7 and E3 things, some next post /off

You can attribute it to whatever you like, but I'm pretty sure I'm 4w3. It makes more sense than anything else.

[strrrng]

I could be talked into considering EIE, but I IEI I just don't see. IEI are not goofy the way Gilly is goofy. They are very concerned about their grace and dignity (at least the ones I know irl) in an artsy sort of way. I would never consider strrrng, krae, Auvi, or most other IEIs around here to be goofy in a silly Gilly way. His humor seems alpha and he reminds me more of BG than of the IEIs. I have considered IEE because he reminds me of myself a lot of times, but that could just be the Ne and E7 (which he doesn't believe).

I agree with this quite a bit. While seeming superficial on the surface, I do think the various quadras and respective types within them exhibit consistent styles of expression in humor. This should be implicit, given the nature of types and the pervasiveness of something like humor.

So, despite being able to almost always activate Gilly with some sort of, "lol that dumb cunt can eat cock" type of comment, his method of expression has never possessed the same curtness -- dryness, to a degree -- that I see in other betas. It's not necessarily about harshness vs. lightness, cause he can definitely rail into people; in all honesty, I just have always gotten a much 'softer' feel from his humorous expressions -- almost as if he's trying to open up, or invite someone to ingratiate him -- than anything. Beta NF's motivations with humor are entirely divergent IMO -- as you pointed out, concerned with 'grace,' which entails a certain preservation of control over emotional dynamics, which Gilly seems to self-depreciatingly flout as a means to 'lighten things up.' There's a reassuring naivety to his manner of expression.

Yes. Imo, Nick is this "thing", and you aren't. :wink:

Let's dualize.

Hmm... It's rather abstract, but I'll try to explain that feel... IEIs - are like coordinates in the room, like clouds, you can move inside them, somehow. And they don't push or limit you the way others do. It doesn't matter if they are loud, the way strrrng is loud. He still doesn't feel threatening, to me. I can walk "inside" and "behind" that aggression, and just observe it almost from within, without it really "touching" me, the way other people can push with their presence. And then I can just relax happily on that cloudy cushion of IEI-ness, and it's somehow absolutely non-threatening and light.

This makes complete sense to me, intuitively. lol, I actually recall a little confrontation we had a while back, before you even self-typed SLE, where I did my usual incendiary thing, and you, in surprising contrast to what I was used to from others, seemed to very casually absorb the entire 'impact' from what I said. Firstly, I don't see Gilly nearly as caught up in emotional dynamics in those kinds of arguments as I am -- something I attribute to Ti ego vs. Fe ego -- nor do I see his manner of expression like mine, which essentially stems from wanting someone to take my explosiveness in stride. He seems much more bent on maintaining logical equanimity, seeing all sides without getting too aristocratic about one or the other (which is something beta NFs incessantly do), and making a sort of level judgment.

BTW, I think you might have argued that Strrrng interrupts Si where you don't, when you compared yourself to him some posts ago? But I don't care about the harsh Si, only about the soft Ni.

Well, that's interesting. I do believe I interrupt Si quite a bit -- which is much more apparent in my behavior on stickam. It's obviously derived from a desperate search for that Se impact lol, and can be seen in something as simple as uttering "****** ******" completely randomly, banging a pencil on the desk repeatedly just to make an effect, or purposely confronting people to see if they can put me in my place. Si is not about comfort, but it is about sensory continuity, and I have always seen Gilly as more absorbed in this manner of perception -- looking for it from others imo -- than the Se search I exhibit.

Aside from that, energy levels consistently point to EP over everything else. There is a solidity to his presence that IPs lack -- especially INFps -- and a laid-back adaptability that no EJ possesses with such a level of ease.

As soon as he stops aggrandizing himself with these hopped-up beta stereotypes, and realizes that he can maintain his self-image without directly correlating it to some explicit definition for consolidation, he'll see the light.

[Ezra]

IMO, Serious over Judicious, it seems he simply makes his mind up too quickly to be Ne/Si. Ne/Si types need to take in a lot of information before they come to a decision (even then they may not speak with absolute certainty on an issue) [look at Ezra for instance, who would change/make up his mind so much on such a compariatively small amount of information (to us), he's been describes as a ping pong ball, or the forwardness and finality of LSI's].

I don't think it's a Ne/Si Se/Ni distinction so much as a Te/Ti distinction. Ti ego types, including me, I must admit, are quick to drawn conclusions, because their Ti is fundamentally categorical, and they devalue Te, which is based primarily upon obtaining information and on not making judgements. Thus, if Gilly "makes his mind up too quickly", it would surely be a case for a Ti > Te type, rather than being a case of Ne/Si or Se/Ni. Reference his "approach to having an objective, logically cohesive worldview that I take a form of arrogant pride in".

I tend to see SLEs as a kind of distant ideal, someone I wish I could be more like but just don't really have it in me.

Just to throw it out there:

Super-ego relations: Each partner is the embodiment of many qualities the other wishes he had and tries unsuccessfully to develop in himself.

He keeps me in the real world, essentially. He knows me better than anyone, he knows "who I am," he understands me. He is able to get me to do things, to get out and be active, like nobody I know; really the only time I feel totally comfortable going to things like house parties or bars is with him, partly because I know that, to him, I take priority over other people at the party, and the knowledge that we can "escape" at any time helps me to relax and enjoy myself more. In regards to my drug addiction, he acts as my "master," in a sense: I have made a personal promise to him that I will not do drugs, and whenever I am having doubts, I call him, and he can "straight talk" me to my senses, help me get a grip, and remind me where my priorities lies.

He keeps in touch with me on a fairly regular basis, keeps me grounded in our friendship; even if, for some unthinkable reason, my interest in him as a friend were to slip, he would always be forcing himself into my life, reminding me what we have been through together and showing me how much I really do need him. He often calls me when he is depressed, and I am one of the only people capable of really giving him the perspective he needs; I can make him feel better almost without fail. He likes my snarky wise cracks and blase attitude, which are parts of myself that I'm really only totally comfortable letting loose when I'm talking to or around him. He is the one person who, when I'm with him, I HAVE to be myself, no matter how many people I feel the need to impress; I can't betray his trust, it's just not in me to be someone I'm not, because it would be embarrassing for him to see me being fake, since he knows who I REALLY am.

This really doesn't sound anything like a request relationship.

[Joy]

This really doesn't sound anything like a request relationship.

True.

[Gilly]

I really don't think I fit well into one Socionics type. I mean, I think if we took apart my brain, some pattern would emerge, and even without doing so I'm sure I can be categorized by some method or another, but there is just so much conflicting shit about me that actually sticking a label on my "information metabolism" is, at this point, essentially useless.

[strrrng]

//suicide

[Gilly]

You so stole that from me.

[Joy]

I think it would be a lot easier to type you irl.

[Gilly]

Probably.

Anyone feel like coming to Richmond? I know Juju was talking about it at one point.

[strrrng]

I could probably go down there easily

[Gilly]

hotmanbuttsecks <3

[strrrng]

All we need is a coke whore.

[Gilly]

Well, we'd be in the right state...

[strrrng]

At least somewhere nearby!

[Ezra]

I really don't think I fit well into one Socionics type. I mean, I think if we took apart my brain, some pattern would emerge, and even without doing so I'm sure I can be categorized by some method or another, but there is just so much conflicting shit about me that actually sticking a label on my "information metabolism" is, at this point, essentially useless.

Of course, and due to your categorical thinking, you want to fit into the system. The problem is, reality doesn't match socionics as comfortably as you'd like it to. I have the same problem. So would everyone who tried to make it all fit.

[Gilly]

Well, if I have gotten one thing out of Socionics, it's the knowledge that I can only learn about myself by studying myself, and not cramming my gangly limbs into an oversized, misshapen box of an old Lithuanian lady's projections.

[Blaze]

i don't think IEI really. but i can see ILE or EIE for gill. if i can type reliably, that is. which i am not sure of at this point, esp on line.

[Gilly]

Gilly is just what everyone wants him to be. True on so many levels...

No, in all realism, I am probably a 3w4 sx/so. Beyond that, typology can go fuck itself.

[Kim]

There is a severity about IEIs that Gilly does not have. It seems as if Gilly identifies with the "IEI outbursts" of Nick and krae, but while those two always come across as angry, Gilly never does. With "angry" I mean that aggressive IEIs have a certain way of venting aggression that is uncomfortable and angry to me. Seriously, when IEI get angry, I cringe and die a little, not because I feel threatened, but because it usually comes out of left field (or in a situation that does not warrant such an outburst in my world). I will use krae as an example: when all of a sudden he changed his attitude towards me and became openly hostile, I was extremely bothered by it because hostile IEIs can viscious, but first of all I didn't GET it. IEI anger or hostility is strange to me. For some reason IEIs LOVE to be enigmatic about everything, including why they think you suck.

Gilly does not have the severity that comes with IEI humor AND anger/hostility, etc. There is a light-heartedness and "forgiving spirit" about him that I don't see in IEI. I have never seen pictures of IEIs that show them being silly in a way Gilly has portrayed himself in pictures.

And finally - show me an IEI, no matter how drugged up - who would show his penis IN ACTION on the internet to unsuspecting bystanders.

Gilly is a silly alpha ILE who has been hanging out with betas too much.

[Joy]

There is a severity about IEIs that Gilly does not have. It seems as if Gilly identifies with the "IEI outbursts" of Nick and krae, but while those two always come across as angry, Gilly never does.

I agree. When he's like that, it's not because he hates the world. He just feels like bitching. As mean as the stuff he says can be, it's clear he doesn't mean it.

[strrrng]

Gilly does not have the severity that comes with IEI humor AND anger/hostility, etc. There is a light-heartedness and "forgiving spirit" about him that I don't see in IEI. I have never seen pictures of IEIs that show them being silly in a way Gilly has portrayed himself in pictures.

I agree. Even if he is indignant at someone, it still seems like his deeper motivation remains diplomatic, which seeps into the crevices of what he says. Not that IEIs aren't diplomatic, but it's expressed in an entirely different way, and is often overshadowed by their emotionality.

I also agree about the picture thing -- there was a 6-page discussion on that aspect in a beta thread a few months back, based on some self-depreciatingly humorous pictures he posted.

And finally - show me an IEI, no matter how drugged up - who would show his penis IN ACTION on the internet to unsuspecting bystanders.

*raises hand*... oh wait, you said strangers

Gilly is a silly alpha ILE who has been hanging out with betas too much.

Yep. And has taken on certain behavioral strategies and attitudes which are commonly conflated with betas.

[Gilly]

Ok, so I'm probably not an IEI.

Next.