Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 41 to 63 of 63

Thread: EII-LIE semi-duality relations (INFj and ENTj)

  1. #41
    FreelancePoliceman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    TIM
    LII-Ne
    Posts
    5,654
    Mentioned
    524 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Emmym View Post
    Yes.

    One of the biggest fights my ex and I ever had was regarding me skipping a holiday with her family when I got sick.

    Apparently, I had missed the one before as well? This isn't typically like me, but I had the flu during Christmas and the last thing I wanted to do was risk getting anyone else sick while suffering through the experience of being in someone else's home during a high-stress period while also uncomfortably ill.

    This was not a valid reason to someone with Si-PoLR, though.

    I'll never forget her telling me that "sometimes in life we have to do things that we don't want to do." It really stung to be lectured like a child, considering I felt I had an extremely valid reason.

    The combination of Si PoLR + Se HA is incredibly uncomfortable for me in the real world.
    I’d think that would have more to do with poor F than bad Si — it seems to me that it’s more just not caring how someone feels and regarding something else as more important than them, rather than an inability to understand what being sick is like. I’ve known Beta STs in particular to say similar things in similar circumstances.

  2. #42
    Adam Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    TIM
    ENTJ-1Te 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    16,156
    Mentioned
    1548 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    Iíd think that would have more to do with poor F than bad Si ó it seems to me that itís more just not caring how someone feels and regarding something else as more important than them, rather than an inability to understand what being sick is like. Iíve known Beta STs in particular to say similar things in similar circumstances.
    My SLI-Te ex and I often missed holidays with the otherís families. My excuse was that I had to work or fix some essential thing around the house, and her excuse was that she wasnít feeling well.

    Neither of us argued or objected to the other person not showing up for a family holiday, because we each put the other person ahead of our extended family.

    It helped that both our families were fairly screwed up, and we found a saner, more constructive person in each other.

  3. #43
    FreelancePoliceman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    TIM
    LII-Ne
    Posts
    5,654
    Mentioned
    524 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    My SLI-Te ex and I often missed holidays with the other’s families. My excuse was that I had to work or fix some essential thing around the house, and her excuse was that she wasn’t feeling well.

    Neither of us argued or objected to the other person not showing up for a family holiday, because we each put the other person ahead of our extended family.

    It helped that both our families were fairly screwed up, and we found a saner, more constructive person in each other.
    To be clear, I was saying that T types would be more likely to be unempathetic, not that they necessarily are.

    In any case, I think I’d feel more at ease with someone else’s screwed-up family than with my own, simply because they aren’t my own. That’s how I felt with my ex’s, at least. I didn’t really want to attend their family holidays/fighting matches, but it gave me an excuse not to attend my own family’s.

  4. #44
    Rebelondeck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    1,929
    Mentioned
    175 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Aspects in the other that they'll occasionally question but not usually in a big way:

    EII vs LIE
    naivety vs taking advantage
    independence vs controlling
    hesitancy vs rashness
    disconnection vs tunnel vision
    deliberateness vs tactics
    lack of practicality vs expediency
    truth vs morality

    a.k.a. I/O

  5. #45
    PinKDiGiT18's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    TIM
    EII-1Ne 4w5 sx/so
    Posts
    568
    Mentioned
    43 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    LIEs are weird to me. Their Te has a powerful effect on me, but it feels like it’s missing something. (Duh.)

    My LIE-Te in-law and I have never gotten along well. I think she’s querulous, and she thinks I’m arrogant. And yet there is mutual admiration there. Every once in a while, we have a moment of connection, and it feels like we could become friends. But that connection is quickly offset by her unexpected Se HA flareups that make my Si recoil.

    My LIE-Ni cousin and I get along wonderfully. We can talk about anything without offending the other person, and we are appreciative of one another’s help. However, when we briefly lived together with our family, it became evident that two people of our types would not function together very well in a romantic relationship. My cousin is a total Se junkie - that intensity and high-pressure is an essential part of his life and is observable in everything from his entertainment, to how he works, to how he maintains his home.

    It can be awe-inspiring, but I could not please a person with those needs. Where he is trying to accelerate, I’m trying to decelerate. We exist in completely different worlds, but with the same aims, which makes for frustration and a sense that the other person is trying to sabotage you.


  6. #46

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PinKDiGiT18 View Post
    My LIE-Ni cousin and I get along wonderfully. We can talk about anything without offending My cousin is a total Se junkie - that intensity and high-pressure is an essential part of his life and is observable in everything from his entertainment, to how he works, to how he maintains his home.
    Can you give any examples of this intensity/high pressure esp. regarding home maintenance?

  7. #47
    PinKDiGiT18's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    TIM
    EII-1Ne 4w5 sx/so
    Posts
    568
    Mentioned
    43 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalinoche buenanoche View Post
    Can you give any examples of this intensity/high pressure esp. regarding home maintenance?
    This is both my cousin and his identical wife: whenever they give an order, it must be done immediately. When giving commands to children or pets, for example, they are not soft or conciliatory in how they phrase them - they may deliver a curt shout or use demonstrative body language (clenching fists, pointing, focused stare) to indicate what it is they want another person to do. But the intention with it is not to be menacing, but rather to be unambiguous in aims and encourage the other person to get things done. Our mutual ESI relatives and their ESI daughter respond to this very positively. However, from my perspective, it often seems brash; and they can get offended/irritated by my lack of responsiveness. I don’t see that behavior as necessary to get another person to do something - simply telling them is enough for me.

    My cousin has talent in the field of engineering. His wife has talent in the area of crafts and knitting, and together they run a household that is contentedly free of breaks. If you come to visit, something is always being set up or torn down. If you tell them they need to relax before they collapse from exhaustion, they’ll scrunch their noses and look at you funny.
    Last edited by PinKDiGiT18; 06-04-2021 at 08:54 PM.

  8. #48
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    26,935
    Mentioned
    698 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    Aspects in the other that they'll occasionally question but not usually in a big way:

    EII vs LIE
    naivety vs taking advantage
    independence vs controlling
    hesitancy vs rashness
    disconnection vs tunnel vision
    deliberateness vs tactics
    lack of practicality vs expediency
    truth vs morality

    a.k.a. I/O
    EII donít lack practicality
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  9. #49
    Rebelondeck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    1,929
    Mentioned
    175 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    EII don’t lack practicality
    You, perhaps. However, their idealism tends to override their practicality at times but they certainly seem to like people who are practical and matter-of-fact. Some are very organized and make excellent administrators but others focus too much on esoteric matters and metaphorically live on their private ashrams. Many seem to walk convoluted paths and preach over-complicated issues. A few need to be coaxed into the real world. No?

    a.k.a. I/O

  10. #50
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    26,935
    Mentioned
    698 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    You, perhaps. However, their idealism tends to override their practicality at times but they certainly seem to like people who are practical and matter-of-fact. Some are very organized and make excellent administrators but others focus too much on esoteric matters and metaphorically live on their private ashrams. Many seem to walk convoluted paths and preach over-complicated issues. A few need to be coaxed into the real world. No?

    a.k.a. I/O
    The reason why they like those people is because they are that way too
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  11. #51
    Rebelondeck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    1,929
    Mentioned
    175 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    The reason why they like those people is because they are that way too
    I think that it may be because they realize that they occasionally need reality checks? You did not comment on the rest of my post, on which I expected more reaction.

    a.k.a. I/O

  12. #52
    Adam Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    TIM
    ENTJ-1Te 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    16,156
    Mentioned
    1548 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    EII Fanny Brice meets LIE Nick Arnstein:


  13. #53
    Hot Scalding Gayser's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    The evolved form of Warm Soapy Water
    TIM
    IEI-Ni
    Posts
    14,891
    Mentioned
    661 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Well semi-dual relationships are often very mutually affectionate. You tend to be nice to each other's vulnerabilities and if not nice then you tend to be forgiving. Where it goes wrong is your semi-dual's hidden agenda is your polr and vice-versa. I think this means mechanically and logically something always feels very 'off' underneathe the surface even though in a heartfelt emotional way it often works out so well. Duality is the best balance of both head and heart- where neither of those two are broken too much theoritically speaking.

  14. #54
    youfloweryourfeast's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2021
    TIM
    EII sp/so 4w5
    Posts
    202
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Yeah it's really nice in a metaphysical sense like to discuss ideas because it is fun for me to talk with ni users, and it's easy to talk to them. I also guess because we may prefer to use are ni in discussions but si is what we need in real life, which they can't really help us with.

  15. #55
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    North Italy
    TIM
    ENTj
    Posts
    16,778
    Mentioned
    244 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by youfloweryourfeast View Post
    Yeah it's really nice in a metaphysical sense like to discuss ideas because it is fun for me to talk with ni users, and it's easy to talk to them. I also guess because we may prefer to use are ni in discussions but si is what we need in real life, which they can't really help us with.
    Of course. But still if you're standing against let's say, a beta environment, a LIE can save a EIIs' ass.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  16. #56
    PinKDiGiT18's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    TIM
    EII-1Ne 4w5 sx/so
    Posts
    568
    Mentioned
    43 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I’ve always thought of this semi-dual relation as having potential to yield a riveting erotica. I don’t know why.

  17. #57

    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    1,334
    Mentioned
    64 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Is semi duality better than activity?

  18. #58
    Adam Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    TIM
    ENTJ-1Te 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    16,156
    Mentioned
    1548 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    Is semi duality better than activity?
    For me, semi-duality is way better than activity.

  19. #59

    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    1,334
    Mentioned
    64 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I've had good and bad relations with LIE. The good was mostly due to LIE not feeling in competition with me or threatened by me, so we can relax and just have a good time joking around. I notice some LIE can be tense, so maybe that helps. It's also motivating to talk to someone who has big goals and dreams they wanna do.

    The bad relations were surprisingly due to Ni. Because Ni is introverted it's not always communicated and sometimes when an LIE is trying to get things to go in the direction of their Ni it can be seen as steam rolling and arrogance, because they don't let people in on their plan but want cooperation in this unspoken plan.

    I think a great example of this is the movie Lean On Me, I believe Morgan Freeman plays an LIE who has his heart in the right place but pisses people off because he doesn't share his big plans on how he is going to accomplish his goal, he just tells everyone what to do and they are supposed to do it without question. This can be a major issue especially for an Ne type who constant seeks for evidence whenever an Ni hunch is presented to them. I've had the same issue with EIE but not with goals but more with beliefs, they assert a huge claim backed by no evidence and my Ne now has tons of questions that they are unwilling to answer but they demand my full belief in their claim that has no evidence. LIE can do sort of the same, Ni vision, no explanation of the how we get there, but they can demand your full cooperation, feels too much like blind trust. As far as Si/Se, I don't notice this as much but when I do it does feel weird, it;s mostly the lack of communication with Ni for me, I can't just do what someone wants me to do in blind faith, it feels like submission, it feels like I have to violate my own brain, like I have to just shut up and go because they said so.


    some LIEs know:

    I remember working on a group project with someone I only could think was LIE, it's weird because they were depressed for quiet sometime and not super ambitious like all the stereotypes. But on this group project, even though he was not set as the leader, he pretty much over spoke the leader who was a soft spoken SLI, and he constantly tried to get his way, like he already had a firm idea in his mind of how he wanted things to turn out and constantly tried to force people in that direction. The problem was, this wasn't an assignment where we had a clear goal, this was a team project where we had to make something, something that we all agreed to make. But this guy kept trying to control the decision on what we were gonna make. He controlled all input. I worked pretty hard o something for the project, I showed in to the group and tried to get approval from the team lead to keep going with it, and the LIE dude goes "NO!". No explanation, just no, he's not even the team lead, no one says anything, he just steam rolled and the team lead just let him make the decision. So after this I let the team, I just couldn't take it anymore. I joined another group in that class and the funny thing was the lead of that team was an LSE, he had his asshole ways also but there was a similar scenario where I turned in something I was working on for the project. I looked for his approval to see if it would make it in the final draft of the project, he told me no, then he tells me WHY. He said a couple things and I made the changes and got the approval from him to include it in that project. It was simple. But the LIE dude, man he was a mess, every step of the way he, it got so bad that he would be over your shoulder telling you what he wanted you to do as you were doing it, I almost got up and said "Do you it yourself!" one time. When he finally got a girlfriend he was like a different person, he toned down a softened up a ton. And when I got what he considered a "high status" job, his attitude towards me completely changed, it went from telling me what to do to all of the sudden wanting to team up with my "credentials".

    There is another LIE woman I know. She is gorgeous but married and twice my age. We aren't real close but are part of the same friend group and so we are somewhat friends. She could be mistaken as an introvert, in action only, because she doesn't talk much in groups, but her appearance is big and bold, military woman, fancy dresses, bold necklaces that make a statement, and she's got a new hairstyle every time you see her. We don't talk much so I decide to sit next to her at a meeting to have some conversation with her and I get pleasantly surprised. She can talk up a storm, I don't mind because it's interesting to see her talk this much. She starts getting really involved in it all, telling me about her military adventures, and then that leads to this book she wants to write. It's about finding relationships, she knows a ton of single women "at the top" that are middle age and she thinks it's sad because " you can't build memories with all that money." Anyway, the conversation picks up fast, but I end up having to leave because my ride is ready to go, so she tells me "Oh, you better go, because I can talk all day!". But I leave feeling excited, from just seeing her talk so much and her high energy and dreams are inspiring. The next time I see her, I'm manning an audio visual device for our meeting, so I can't talk much, and usually when she sees me she says hi and keeps it moving, but this time she says hi and just stands in the door way leaning on the wall for a good second, looking off in some distance. Not sure if she wants to speak to me or...? I already find her physically attractive, but now I feel like we got a little closer, that's big trouble for me with a married woman, I don't wanna torture myself with the inevitable imaginations. So I feel guilty about my own thoughts and say nothing, and after a couple seconds she taps the wall and walks away. And that's how things are today, haven't spoken to her much since. There was one time she sat next to me, which she never does, but I said nothing that time too. Anyway, that's all, she's something.


    Personally when it's good it's fun, but an LIE stereotype that does ring true for me is the intimidation, I do sense I'm intimidated by them when I'm around them a little, there's only been a few times where I haven't been, so there's some discomfort there, probably some Se/Si thing going on there too. LSE doesn't have this intimidating affect on me, sure they can be bull headed but their ways are more obvious. And some victim women can go overboard, idk what it is, but I've dealt with some psuedo-aggressor women and their attitude is confusing, how am I supposed to interpret someone being extra mean to me for no reason as "oh, they like me", I can see that I'm the only one they treat like this so maybe that's a hint, but it definitely doesn't make me attracted to them, it just causes me stress. The not crazy victim girls just don't work well with my infantile approach, I'll try and do shock humor with Ne, twist a perspective in an unusual way for comedy for example " I can't trust this chinese food store, all your cooks are mexican." for shiggles, caregiver would eat that up but victim girl won't become attracted by that, might even take me seriously and not notice it's a joke. And if victim girl is attracted to me physically she is more interested in testing my mettle than reacting to my humor, so she puts up resistance and tries to control the interaction at her pace, instead of laughing at the joke she's more likely to kill the vibe and ask me my name with a handshake, it's too slow for me, I'm too "extra" for her, it just doesn't work.

    Anyway, this one seems hit or miss for me.


    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    For me, semi-duality is way better than activity.
    hm, I don't know enough semi-duals in close quarters but I've experienced such good activity, and consistently, it seems hard to beat.
    Last edited by Lord Pixel; 05-27-2022 at 06:02 AM.

  20. #60

    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    1,334
    Mentioned
    64 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    I think that it may be because they realize that they occasionally need reality checks? You did not comment on the rest of my post, on which I expected more reaction.

    a.k.a. I/O
    I personally like practical people because when they give advice on how to do something it is unambiguous, there is no room for my Ne to interpret what they say incorrectly, I have the "matter of fat" crystal clear information now and it has a sedative effect on me, where I no longer have to think all I have to do now is do.

  21. #61

    Join Date
    Jul 2020
    TIM
    EII-Fi
    Posts
    65
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    EII Fanny Brice meets LIE Nick Arnstein:

    I know this is old, but I love that you posted a Funny Girl video. I've never seen the movie, but as a fan of Glee, I have a fondness for the show and despite her problematic ways, hope Lea Michele gets the part to see it.

  22. #62
    End's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    TIM
    ILI-Ni sp/sx
    Posts
    1,846
    Mentioned
    292 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    I'll simply restate what I had to say about semi-duality elsewhere. It's an overall fulfilling and mutually beneficial relationship that is sadly tinged with a noticeable yet ultimately forgivable (and dare I say negligible) level of disappointment. This is because you're both getting the primary things you're seeking out of a partner without the ultimately secondary and tertiary components you were also hoping for.

    The LIE wants someone with primary and the EII provides but doesn't provide the other thing they were hoping for, but those were things they were willing to let slide. The EII isn't as gentile about compensating for a lack that of as an ESI is but if you nitpick about every little thing you'll never find any form of suitable partner. Provided both parties are securely attached it's not a deal breaker and it sure as hell could be far worse (e.g. getting forced to wed your conflictor) and even then it's still possible to make it work. Just takes more effort from both parties.

  23. #63
    Progress is Future's Daily Digestion Hermes Trismegistus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Dark side of the moon
    TIM
    Huxley
    Posts
    1,276
    Mentioned
    57 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Semi duality is pretty much like duality in the sense that it feels like psychedelic addiction. The difference is that the side effects are destructive to your overall happiness.
    Use your intuition of progress to guess the likelihood that any bit of information is going to contribute positively to a huge advancement of what is intended to be created. The end result is a massive outburst, or explosion of quantum evolution of mental creation.

    If the spirit of cosmopolitan venture of psychotic metamorphosis has endorsed the neuroplasticity adaptation of human brain cells, then an increase stimulation of gray matter is able to lapidate access to genetic intelligence of contemporary mammals as a cognitive symbiosis of interstellar conglomerates of trojan-horse-analogous operating systems mitigating their self-coded script for destruction of earthly species has arrived.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •