bring on the SEEs
Even though I'm flattered by this statement, this does not exclude Bertrand from being SLI. We could simply be different subtypes; Si subtype SLI has the +Ni pathway strengthened (+Ni is in their DS). By contrast, Te subtype SLI has -Ni strengthened (role function), while also engaging in -Te demonstrative. This makes Te subtype SLI more synthetic in their thinking than Si subtype.
I also was conditioned by betas to not be "allowed" my thoughts unless they were thoroughly laid out in a Ti system and went so far as to study philosophy to try and understand the world in such a way, I think subconsciously, so I could explain it to people who could not accept me until I could (highly religious unhealthy IEI (maybe EIE) mother); either way Te had no place so I've made a habit of not explaining myself in that way, even though internally I think in precisely that way
it just comes out a lot, and its no wonder I've had trouble with duals whereas SEIs and stuff absolutely love me (but I don't really find them special, mean as that is)
I feel like my parents were subconsciously seeking and treating me as if I should be a xLE, and sometimes I put off that vibe because I adapted to that conditioning in some ways
Last edited by Bertrand; 03-19-2017 at 09:25 PM.
i thought you said your dad was an SEI though? still, that sounds pretty crappy. they were seeking double the amount of Ti in that case. beta STs are a lot more concise, so if that balancing influence was around that wouldn't have turned into a problem like that most likely where they shifted their neediness to you.
yes, nail on head. I had a lot of resentment towards my dad in precisely that way; before I even knew of socionics I always felt he should have been "more of a man." If he was ESTP I doubt we'd be here. in the end, maybe he did me a favor though. hes not a bad guy, my mom just completely dominated him and he never really stood up to her, even for his own kids
I had an uncle I looked up to as more of a father figure and I think he was EII, which isn't exactly manly but he had certain qualities I absolutely needed
lol, even EII is more manly than either of those types if they're both xEI. at least he wouldn't be a logics polr and he'd have more Te than them.
my parents are both Te ego and i did not respect them much as parents, but a lot of it was probably because of the relationship they were in (supervision). i looked up to my LIE-ESI grandparents as guardians instead.
yeah I know how that feels and it was weird my parents totally picked up on it too but there wasn't anything to be done about it... they kind of didn't like my uncle but probably didn't know why. I feel bad for them now, thinking about it, they were probably insecure about their own kid respecting this other guy and not them
your job isn't to worry about your parents' insecurities; it's to worry about growing up properly to be an independent and respectable person, and it seems like that you did. if anything they grew from the experience and it was good for them, and lucky them they had some kind of role model around for their kids.
This does seem to be true for Betas, since they identify the most with their values and fight against others who oppose them. Gilly's post demonstrates this very well. (I would also say that intraquadra conflict most often occurs between an introvert and an extrovert, for all quadras.)
I don't think it is true for the other quadras though. Gammas (at least Gamma NTs) seem to hate Betas the most as well. With Si valuers it's more haphazard but the people who tend to create the most vehement reactions in general are usually types with high Se.
You seem to be confusing dislike with fear. You can dislike something or someone without being afraid of it, for example if it is irritating.
People hate each other mostly for political reasons. Put two groups of people together with differing political beliefs, and you'd be sure that there'd be fervent conflicts.
People may hate their identicals due to projecting the qualities that they don't like in themselves, as well as that they may notice the negative qualities that they don't like in themselves more in their identicals.
Anyway, this whole idea seems to go against the idea of Socionics inter-type relationships, BECAUSE they are supposed to be relative. Everyone is supposed to have more or less the same reactions with certain type relations.
As self-proclaimed misanthrope I'd say all but as solipsist most of all myself.
OK, not really although I think I have bit of latter in some way.
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I can't believe I missed the follow up to my post (weirdly enough I didn't get the "Quote" message) but you win
It's indeed a case of I'm-the-center-of-the-universe-and-anyone-who-dislikes-me-is-actually-afraid-of-me-because-I'm-so-badass-and-awesome mentality. They try to make it seem about things outside of the being itself by using "professional" language, but it's just a cover.
Yes, I can see it too. Egos relate everything back to themselves, so it's only natural that they'll expect everyone else to feel like they do. I guess it also makes them feel better about themselves, so they don't feel like they're scared on their own
Last edited by LuckyOne; 03-20-2017 at 09:42 AM.
LIIs - Sometimes they can be hard to be around because they remind me of my own insecurities, though this doesn't lead to hate...
ILEs - Can be assholes, but usually not on purpose.
SFs - Too cute to hate.
I only hate people who give me a bad attitude and show me a general lack of respect, whatever those types might be. Often I will resist doing something for someone purely out of spite if I feel that aren't taking my interest into consideration and are just trying to strong-arm me into doing something for their own agenda. If instead the person is agreeable and treats me as his/her kin rather then some tool I can be quite generous in what I'm willing to do for them, regardless of their background or political beliefs.
I don't really hate people. It is a drain on my energy so I prefer no one has that kind of power over me. I have disliked people who may, or may not be, in my quadra but those come and go. It is more like, I hate behavior but even that is a temporary feeling, if they change it I will not hold it against them. If they don't I will keep my distance.
Hate makes you all shriveled up and ugly, inside and out.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
I feel like if you love, unless you're perfect, you're going to hate. I feel like indifference is the absence of love and hate is just corrupted love. I feel like since I love some people I almost necessarily have to hate others, because some people are opposite and stand for different things, but its hate in the sense that I would love no one at all if I didn't hate them, or worse, I'd hate those I love if I loved them. I don't want to hate people though, and maybe I don't hate them, just their actions? but honestly that feels like a disingenuous separation. I hate it when people say stuff like "hate the sin love the sinner" because honestly its usually to defend hating the sinner and loving the sin, in a weird way--so I'm not gonna play that game
I feel like hate isn't really a bad thing. I think its a human thing and that hate is bad only when its flowing from an evil heart. I think righteous hearts hate rightly, and although that means that everyone thinks they're right, thus everyone thinks they have a right to their hate, right or wrong, which means event he 9/11 hijackers probably thought good of themselves. I don't think taking hate off the table changes that, it just pushes it underground... in fact I wouldn't be surprised if they said they didn't hate anyone. I think when you admit to hating you have to take responsibility for it and ask yourself why you hate something and then maybe you can make some progress if you're honest with yourself about it. I also think hate, and how you respond to it are different things. I hate people but I also believe in tolerance for example. People have a right to live, but we also have laws. laws prevent chaos and violence, but you'll never legislate people's hearts--mine included. I feel its okay to hate but if you murder someone you will face the consequences. I don't feel like we can ever eradicate hate, but I think we can organize ourselves in such a way to minimize the damage from the dark side of humanity. I feel like everyone has to take responsibility for their own acts and emotions and at the end of the day if someone wants to hate or break the law, only God can really say whether it was objectively justified... for everyone else we live by our hearts and weigh the consequences and whatever is going to happen is going to happen. I definitely hate though. I don't think its necessarily a bad thing
Last edited by Bertrand; 03-20-2017 at 08:08 PM.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Lmaoo, the inner ESI We need to introduce that concept to Gulenko. If we go by that logic, a Jack London hides within me. That means, I can turn into @Adam Strange. Omg.
(For real, it's more like the enneagram 1 in you, quite impressive lecture)
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
yes, I think it is E1 because its mostly Si if you really get down to it... its from piecing together the best of philosophies that I've encountered in the most healthy/aesthetic (Si) way I know how (Te/Fi)
like I didn't come up with any of that, I came across it at some point or another and recognized it as true for me
and I do think all IEEs have a little Jack in them its actually been pretty palpable around the IEEs i've gotten to know
Last edited by Bertrand; 03-20-2017 at 10:14 PM.
Hate leads to suffering.
"Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” -- Yoda
I think its Yoda quoting the Jedi Code, which was around since the inception of the order. But I also think its a pretty lame Ti way to look at things... Hate can lead to suffering, but not necessarily; it could also lead to good things, imo. Not only that but suffering is not necessarily bad
I guess that makes me a Sith, which I'm comfortable with. Although Obi Wan is without a doubt the best 1w9 ever