niffweed is LII

[Trevor]

I think Jonathan originally wrote a large chunk of the description, Niffweed then added some. He used some of my ideas as well and incorporated them, so it's mostly a mash up of that. I feel if more people wanted to contribute, he would have likely incorporated more but usually only one or two people really tackle a description.

Thanks for clarifying that.

[Creepy-male]

Yeah, deflection is the best way to deal with people in a manner conducive to finding an appropriate solution to a disagreement. Discussing things rationally is for people who don't have uncanny insight into people's motivations.

I personally don't believe this to be the case.

In fact, if we listen to Daoism, it's best so simply let them do whatever without letting it influence you. Blank acceptance prevents tensions from spreading to other areas.

[Gilly]

Blank acceptance also promotes sloth, complete boredom, and the tendency to not do anything other than sustain your physical existence, which I think is extremely depressing.

[Ave]

Alright if Niffweed is LII why do so many of his posts come off as describing concrete processes in a non static but dynamic sort of way? I say that points ILI, not LII if anything.

[Creepy-bg]

Mmmmmm sloth

[Ave]

I disagree with Joy's typing of Niffweed.

One of the most prominent things about Niff is how interlinked his impressions of someone are linked with his emotions about them. If he feels a certain way towards you, then that influences his impressions of you, and those impressions further support his feelings, and so continues the self-feeding loop. This is classic Ni+Fi.

Once he's gained these impressions/emotions towards a person, he will then deliberately ignore any information that doesn't support this, and when presented with information that contradicts his impressions, he'll either twist it in Ni fashion so that it no longer means what was meant, or he'll dismiss it as "irrelevant". Unfortunately, this is often the part that is used to support his supposed Ti-ness. But it's not his "Ti" that's doing this, it's his Ni seeing a pattern and whatever doesn't fit that pattern gets dismissed.

I think this is typical of all Ni types. We tend to get blinded by someone with strong Se, its easy to see someone else doing it, hard to stop doing it(not that there any reason to ) and seems to annoy the hell out of everyone else who sees it, as my ESFj friend says about my reltionship with my gf "i hate to see you being controlled".

[discojoe]

Yeah, deflection is the best way to deal with people in a manner conducive to finding an appropriate solution to a disagreement. Discussing things rationally is for people who don't have uncanny insight into people's motivations.

Shut the fuck up, George. I'm under no obligation to humor anyone over a "disagreement" over whether or not I'm similar to a sociopath.

[Creepy-male]

Blank acceptance also promotes sloth, complete boredom, and the tendency to not do anything other than sustain your physical existence, which I think is extremely depressing.

I appear to have caused a conflict with you.

I'm sorry, I think I should avoid you from now on.

[Joy]

I guess I'm just not seeing the same thing Carla, Typhon, and glamourama are in that regard. What I've read of his serious posts, few though they are, has a high content of static logic, and it's even more apparent in actual conversation with him.

[ArchonAlarion]

Alright if Niffweed is LII why do so many of his posts come off as describing concrete processes in a non static but dynamic sort of way? I say that points ILI, not LII if anything.

Easy. He knows socionics and tries to.

Not only does it come off as extremely forced and unnatural, but having interacted with him irl, I couldn't tell you with straight face that he's dynamic.

Every point he makes comes down like a block and he's just adding the blocks together as he goes along.

This is what I think.

This is what things are.

This is how things should be.

Which is fine to me because thats how I think and speak.

yah static rational, not dynamic irrational.

[Creepy-male]

I'd also like to add, why bother pretending to be a type you're not?

Logic fail, Yake. Your argument basically says that anyone who knows socionics is untypable... and then worse! You go on to type one specific instance.

[ArchonAlarion]

the notion that niffweed purposely pretends to try and come across as Dynamic/INTp in order to try and mask his supposed INTj-ness is totally absurd. call him INTj if you wish, but niffweed is generally truthful about himself and what he thinks, for better or for worse.

No one is perfect. Also it doesn't have to be conscious.

I'd also like to add, why bother pretending to be a type you're not?

Logic fail, Yake. Your argument basically says that anyone who knows socionics is untypable... and then worse! You go on to type one specific instance.

Nope.

That's why I said it comes across as "forced and unnatural" hence my typing him based on what I actually saw him doing.

And there are plenttttyyytyytytytytytyty of reasons to trick yourself into being a type. Even desire to be consistent with other systems can do it.

[Creepy-male]

That's why I said it comes across as "forced and unnatural" hence my typing him based on what I actually saw him doing.

Yes, something you saw him doing.

You can claim to see anyone doing anything to make up evidence for whatever you're trying to sell. But now I'm starting to sound as nihilistic as you.

And there are plenttttyyytyytytytytytyty of reasons to trick yourself into being a type. Even desire to be consistent with other systems can do it.

Much like how you refuse to be any sort of Ni-base because of your Unfortunate Past?

[Joy]

People can understand Socionics but have poor self-awareness and therefore type themselves incorrectly.

[Gilly]

Shut the fuck up, George. I'm under no obligation to humor anyone over a "disagreement" over whether or not I'm similar to a sociopath.

Sorry for assuming that your presence in this thread indicates a desire to find an answer.

Hmmm, maybe I should go post in the "How Many Warts Does The Average American Male Named Peter Have On His Dick" thread. I sure as hell don't care, but it would be really fun to harass some people who have friends named Peter and accuse them of having motivations that are in no way represented by the way they post in order to appear controversial and inflammatory in a topic that I have secondary involvement in by way of wanting to side with my spouse, because she's a brainless nitwit who can't convince anyone of anything without me standing behind her holding a broken tree branch.

But I'm not very good at discerning people's intentions ...oh well, by my calculations it will be approximately as fun as donning a diving bell and pumping raw sewage into the air line nonetheless, and hey, if things get boring, I can always go back to my 24/7/365 vacation! Man, it sure rules to be a suburban white boy who never grew up!

[Joy]

Alright, back into retirement I go. I've said what I wanted to say. Not to worry though, if I ever decide that I miss the toxicity of this place, I'll be back.

[discojoe]

Sorry for assuming that your presence in this thread indicates a desire to find an answer.

Hmmm, maybe I should go post in the "How Many Warts Does The Average American Male Named Peter Have On His Dick" thread. I sure as hell don't care, but it would be really fun to harass some people who have friends named Peter and accuse them of having motivations that are in no way represented by the way they post in order to appear controversial and inflammatory in a topic that I have secondary involvement in by way of wanting to side with my spouse, because she's a brainless nitwit who can't convince anyone of anything without me standing behind her holding a broken tree branch.

But I'm not very good at discerning people's intentions ...oh well, by my calculations it will be approximately as fun as donning a diving bell and pumping raw sewage into the air line nonetheless, and hey, if things get boring, I can always go back to my 24/7/365 vacation! Man, it sure rules to be a suburban white boy who never grew up!

Uninformed about facts to the point of comedy? Check.

At least three different straw man arguments? Check.

Manic, irrational behavior directed at someone (Joy, in this case; shamelessly using her as a tool to attack me) who hasn't said or done anything to you? Check.

Clear demonstration of a lack of understanding of people in general? Check.

Yep, an authentic George post.

[Gilly]

Claiming to have "facts" without actually saying anything? Check.

Using "straw man" as a buzzword against an unabashedly ad hominem attack to try and boost credibility? Check

Accusing people of poor mental health to discredit what they say? Check.

Being condescending about other people's interpersonal intelligence in an attempt to belittle them without proving anything? Check.

A classic discojoe post.

[ArchonAlarion]

Yes, something you saw him doing.

You can claim to see anyone doing anything to make up evidence for whatever you're trying to sell. But now I'm starting to sound as nihilistic as you.



Much like how you refuse to be any sort of Ni-base because of your Unfortunate Past?

I could and exactly.

I don't refuse lol. And my unfortunate past had little to do with some anti-Ni realization. I had been holding out on typing Alpha NT because I thought I was in a dual relationship with an Se ESFp. Turns out her feelings were nothing like I had expected (she lied because she felt bad/didn't want to lose me as a friend). Also during the end of it she revealed her Fi motivations and I could not handle it. It baffled me and I realized what polr hits feel like in relationships. Also now that I have hindsight and can be more fair about our interactions, we have little in common and our world views are totally opposite. I have however, made up with her and her Ni INTp bf and we're cool now.

This is not a matter of me having some biased attachment to ENTp. Its because it actually fits in even the stereotypical descriptions and the people I do dualize with are ISFp's.

People can understand Socionics but have poor self-awareness and therefore type themselves incorrectly.

That's what I mean.

Lol. Oh yeah, that's right. He should subscribe to "Model X" instead, shouldn't he?

No I meant more like he thinks there should be a closer correlation between enneagram and socionics than actually exists for instance.

(that had nothing to do with model x, I meant different typological systems)

?? that has nothing to do with anything I'm talking about.

so basically you are saying, that he knows socionics, and with this knowledge, is pretending to be INTp, trying to mask the fact that he is INTj, all unconsciously?

No I would not put it that way.

very much agree, but I don't think it applies in niffweed's case.

I do.

[ArchonAlarion]

emotional stuntedness/phobicness, obsessive privacy, and knowledge accumulation are traits of the 5 fixation.

Guess how Niff describes Fe and Te lol

loud emotional display (often among groups) for Fe and accumulation of information for Te.

I love accumulating information/knowledge and I'm often scared shitless around emotional display. I also happen to be a 6w5.

So perhaps his 5-ishness has influenced his understanding of socionics?

Is it possible Carla?

Is it that unreasonable?

[Socionics Is A Cult]

Because the video that I watched of him, have you seen it? I mentioned it earlier on when he is talking about Mr Hue, Mr Chue, Mr Cue and such, was really to me built on a structural theory which was although correct in it's self contained-ness, it was highly abstract with no application to real life.

I don't think a Te type would have bothered to construct such a well thought out system, they see things as dynamic and will change what is happening on the course of things.

I have no problems with someone appearing eccentric, but to me, from what i've wrote, the eccentricness that he personally demonstrates is more along the lines of Ti/Ne, not Ni/Te, in the context of comparison.

Of course others who know Niffweed will maybe put forward their thoughts on it, or him, for my part they are my observations, and that is the reasoning behind it for now.

I'm sure there are many INTps throughout history who did things that were "highly abstract with no application to real life."

A fly-tip has 'structure'...but that doesn't necessarily make it a 'planned' structure. I think the difference between the two is important. INTjs and INTps both consider things over a long period of time, so they both have a central bank of ponderings that may or may not seem structured to you.

[ArchonAlarion]

I think I said that wrong.

I don't think he's purposefully faking it. Also i don't think he actually comes across as an INTp (imo).

So I don't even think he's being a faker I take it back.

I do however believe he is limiting himself in certain ways.

Although I have my personal beliefs as to what might be motivating his self imposed limitations I will not say here out of respect.

[07490]

In his videos (ie: all of the ones that he has posted publicly so far), how does niffweed's behaviour not fall within the normal realms of an NiTe in terms of "abstract" thought processes? Compare his capacity for such to reyn_til_runa's, for example, who is also an ILI. Eg: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...avy-laden.html Note PotatoSpirit's (a leading Ti type) response to her mental wanderings.

In what ways do you not see clear demonstrations of Te in his written posts (compared with the posts of Logos and thehotelambush, for example, which I think are far more demonstrative of internal, static, systematic thought processes)? I would say that niffweed's posts contain the better assemblage of Te driven content.

Where is the evidence of Se PoLR that you see? It has already been addressed in this thread that niffweed is not afraid to blatantly be rude and hostile to those he thinks of as stupid in a passive-aggressive manner. He does so with no regard for Fe+Si. I am yet to see Logos, thehotelambush, Subterranean, tuturututu or even myself consistently behave in the same manner. Yes, any of us can be hostile, rude, sarcastic and passive-aggressive, but the manner in which we do so is not at the price of forgoing too much the thing that is very important to us which is Fe and/or Si. Niffweed, on the other hand, demonstrates little regard and concern for Fe+Si whatsoever. His words and actions are meant to have an effect that is much more in alignment with value for Se+Fi.

Also remember that he is an Enneagram 5 and an NT and will naturally share similarities with other Enneagram 5 NTs on this forum.

I agree, yes INXX can look alot in some way, but clearly there's differences if you look past the "out of touch with reality-Wiki comment".

[Joy]

It's interesting to note that some of the Alphas were for the most part the only ones who responded by saying things along the lines of: they think the things he says are worthwhile, they understand where he's coming from, they easily get along with him, etc. (Betas and Deltas mostly responded with, "He's okay, but I need to moderate what I say around him in order to get along with him".)

[Joy]

A negativist LIE with a disdain for Se?

[Gilly]

How does niffweed disdain Se?

[717495]

I in all sincerity can't see a hint of Ti, when you look at it as a technical approach to ideas and explanations. He's pretty unconversant with Ti systems of thought still. I would actually assume EII over LII, since LII is just kind of pointless. ILI looks like the best choice though.

[Warlord]

Niffweed is an IEE.

Carla is EEI

What's noteworthy is that Niffweed doesn't comment on typethreads concerning him.

[Creepy-male]

Niffweed is an IEE.

/thread

[717495]

What's noteworthy is that Niffweed doesn't comment on typethreads concerning him.

That's because he hires people to talk about him. It's called technology.

[crazedrat]

niff is ILI, though I wish I could say otherwise

[717495]

I don't necessarily see him as "not an ethical type," even though I am sincere in thinking he is ILI. I just am certain he's not an "Fe type," or an Fe valuer for that matter. Past circumstance should make that clear.

[Jarno]

niff is ILI, though I wish I could say otherwise

You used to think he was LII if I remember correctly?

But yes, he's a disgrace for ILI"s...

[Jarno]

And in my opinion, he is very good at spotting ILIs, for the most part.

The ILIs in the community seem to be the ones to relate to him best, as well, and he seems to connect more with them than anyone, from what I've seen, not that I know THAT much, but it's my impression.

I don't know where your two remarks are based on.

1) A year ago he called nearly every ILI a fake ILI. Also he has me still as an IEI on his typing list.

2) There are at least 3 ILI's who don't like him. So I'm curious which ILI's he seems to connect well with...

[crazedrat]

you do not remember correctly. I have always known he was ILI. There may of been a time when I didn't go against someone saying he was LII because it was in my own interests to subdue or belittle him.. not sure

[Hitta]

Delta

[1981slater]

Delta

Force

[Nexus]

I personally enjoy Niffweed's funny youtube videos.

Especially the poetry one: "the white will come... the white will come... Boom the world exploded."

Ah its great. I like how he substitutes and interchanges all these various poetic bits thus turning the poem in on itself and making the whole thing a farce.

He's basically eviscerating the Ni by showing that abstractions are not subjective and they are just little bits that you can re-order and there is zero meaning in any of it.

Nice Ne, Niff!

Also I enjoy his interest in knowledge and information. We Ne-ers need to know lots of stuff (from historical to contemporary) including random facts and pop-culture. This helps us package these and extract them into a data base of "parts" which we can then mix and match into all these different forms.

Nice Ne, Niff!

I met Niff in New York. He's pretty tightly wound and he snaps at people occasionally, but I like him. Very interesting guy, very quirky. Its fun when he gets excited because a he lights up and he starts talking faster, etc. We had an interesting conversation starting with trait-based typology methods and ending with nurture vs. nature. We almost ran ahead of the group. I guess we both walk fast, as did Steve and Vero (hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm). Communication was quick and easy between us. In fact I sort of felt like I was talking to myself............................................ ...

When Niff makes points he gets pretty methodical (in fact his whole demeanor and orientation can be called methodical). Seemed to like to divide speech into very clear and understandable parts in a way I'd feel hard pressed to disagree and if I did disagree our difference would be very clear to spot and correct.

Nice Ti IJ, Niff!

Kind of a frail figure. Don't think he'd like people pushing him to do things. Maybe if they convinced him through reasonableness and understanding of the factors at play, but he doesn't seem at all like someone who'd like visceral physical impact. Kinda seems like the opposite to moi. From what I know of ESFp's... Niff would run away from them.

=( poor Se polr Niffweed.


Welp Niff's an interesting guy and I hope he figures out his Alpha-ness one day.

(btw, Maliafee take a look at Niff and then take a look at yer bf. You may shit bricks.)

wow, overload ...I assume you're being facetious...anyway, if you doubt that Niffweed is -creating look at his subjective (or rather objective) impressions list; they are all extremely in content and in expression...

IMHO he is a regular honore de ballsack (j/k)

Yeah, deflection is the best way to deal with people in a manner conducive to finding an appropriate solution to a disagreement. Discussing things rationally is for people who don't have uncanny insight into people's motivations.

lmao

I'd say that ~100% of typing consensus (especially in a forum environment) = sign of predominance of puny minds.

+1

[Creepy-Cyclops]

You seem to be mostly basing that off you and Warlord (and for the record, I always have felt both of you are ILIs). He seems to have had no problem identifying Implied or Johnathan as likely being ILI. He was willing to consider me as ILI when I was still fluctuating between IEI and ILI. He strikes me as being readily able to identify Ni leading types and quite likely ILIs and certainly Ni leading types as such such as XoX, Loki, Polikujm, etc. I personally stand in agreement.

His relations with such as Implied (being one of the best examples that I personally see, not that I am involved, but some things are noticeable to outsiders) and Isha if we consider her ILI (though I know the whole SLI thing so I try not to use her as an example, too much, in order not to complicate matters.), that I am certain of, seems rather close and he seems very receptive to contact with most of the ILIs in the community such as those I mentioned, Mea, and so forth. I find him easy to get along with and relate to and easy to have at least semi-meaningful interaction with while easily stripping off the superficial interactions I tend to have with most (of other types.).

fwiw, the list you put down, names such as XoX, isha, implied, may not actually be INTp, and, crucially perhaps, are you sure that they "get on" with Niffweed?

And I'm not sure who the two other ILIs who don't like him. Not that it's my business or my concern, but I just never noticed it. That's all I am saying. But I merely wanted to make a point that for him to be good at spotting Ni leading types makes me think that LII as his type seems a bit odd and contradictory.

It's also worth noting that doesn't necessarily make a case for him being ILI, as plenty types can spot an Ni type, and spot them well.

--------------------------

As perhaps a random observation, I found the drama of this somewhat interesting:

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...his-forum.html

There's nothing particularly UN in DiscoJoes post. He's making an assessment of Niffweed that by all accounts can be related to , and it's delivery is through . Basically, Discojoe has observed Niffweed being "nasty" to other people, and delivers his response accordingly, on an inter-personal level, and punishing the wrong-doer if you will.

It's not my cup of tea per se - I should say - on a personal level, I agree and can understand what discojoe is saying, but I would appreciate the Fi going into something with options of potential and how to change rather than out and out punishment (but that's likely my preference because I'm an valuer, not an valuer).

The point is, why is Niffweed so against his own valued functions of Se & Fi? That instead of taking on board what DiscoJoe is saying, he simply kicks him out of the forum, proclaiming him to be an "asshole" or something? (can't remember the exact words, but that's the jist of it).

[Warlord]

You seem to be mostly basing that off you and Warlord

No that's not really the case, there's others also, he also doubted (well not just doubted) SeFi's joining the board having their types right, at that time. He has later retyped them. How distastefully he treated Liveandletlive at that time, without any reason, is the only problem I've had with Niffweed (from my point of view).